Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #32

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Evil is not ordinary, IMO.

You might also be interested in stereopticons (Verified Psychologist) remarks from Thread 30:

MassGuy said:
To your last point, do you think it is likely that CW went into an “acute psychotic phase,” based on his postoffense behavior?

Does one commonly commit a crime like this, and then act so rationally and purposefully after the fact?

stereopticons said:
I think it's extremely unlikely that CW experienced acute psychosis at the time of the murders. My main reason for this is his actions and interviews in the days after. He didn't exhibit any bizarre behavior or thinking during his interviews. It's extremely unlikely he would have fully recovered that quickly and without treatment. Additionally, 33 is pretty old for an onset of a psychotic disorder with no prior indications. Of course, he could have had symptoms we don't know about, but again, I think it's very unlikely.

I should point out when I refer to bizarre behavior, I mean what's clinically considered bizarre behavior, which is things like tics, referring to your delusions, talking to hallucinations, etc.

gitana1 said:
How about disassociative fugue? People have wondered about that. What is it? How does it work? Could he conceal certain things like an affair, and know things like his name, address, identity, while in a fugue state by remembering his wife killed his kids?

What are the characteristics of someone in such a state? Do they match with how he looked and sounded and what he said during his three porch interviews!

stereopticons said:
Basically, a dissociative episode is when you separate from your thoughts and actions.
Dissociation is possible, and more likely than psychosis, but honestly, also not likely at all. Dissociation can range in severity and may resolve more quickly than active psychosis, but it's not usually selective. If he said he blacked out and came to and found his wife and kids were dead, I'd be more likely to consider dissociation, but he didn't seem to have any memory loss at all. If he indeed did experience dissociation, he wouldn't remember a false (IMO!) memory of his wife killing the kids. He would almost certainly remember none of it.

The other thing to note about dissociation is that it is usually a response to trauma. For example, you see it most often in children who were sexually abused. It's hypothesized that dissociation is a form of a coping mechanism. It is possible that the dissociative episode could have been triggered by seeing SW strangling the girls, but if that were the case, he'd likely not remember any of his actions later on.

Dissociation also tends to be associated with numbness. I know we've debated how much emotion he's expressing in his interviews after the murders, but honestly, I think it's too much for him to have experienced a dissociative episode.

As always, my caveat is that you can't diagnose over the internet and I don't have all the information. But in my opinion, CW did not experience either active psychosis or a dissociative episode.

Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

I never thought he had either of those. Nor do I think he had EED.

I think he has BPD or he is a sociopath. There is something wrong with a person who can do this.

It is not like some annihlators that are the head of the houselhold and they feel,they cannot provide for their family. They are the head of the household in a very ridgid paternalistic way.

He did not kill them to save them from some kind of fate such as saving them from having to live in this evil world.

He killed them so that he could have a different life.

I don’t believe that one wakes up one day and has no disregard for people. That is a lifelong attribute
 
I know when our door pad needed new batteries, it HOUNDED us to replace batteries (the inside door pad flashed red... the 'home control panel' reprimanded us a few times a day (beepbeepbeep) and our phones wouldn't leave us alone until we replaced the batteries.
Same with smoke/fire/carbon detectors.
Disabled? I don't know, never needed to do that. Lololol

Door pad... meet hammer. Haha
 
There is no evidence whatsoever that she strangled her babies.
We have CW’s confession that he murdered SW.
That confession is proof that he lied to NUA, LE, the media and the Thayers because he told them all completely different story.
The only person who has been charged is CW.
If LE believe that she strangled the babies, they would have downgraded his charges and they have not done so.

Yes! Thank you. Other than the fact that CW, someone who lied about their disappearance on natl TV, said she did it, what "evidence" exists that SW had anything to do with their deaths?
 
27658055_10155222502216935_6066596606940351991_n.jpg
33113884_10155439611731935_5341096775254016000_n.jpg
Oh, how precious, those sweet faces! :(
 
LE brought dogs to the premises but we haven’t been told whether they were search or cadaver dogs. They certainly barked a lot both inside and outside the house. It’s possible he may have confessed if LE told him that cadaver dogs had detected the smell of the deceased.

The scent of death: Police dogs and the Chris Watts investigation
 
I never thought he had either of those. Nor do I think he had EED.

I think he has BPD or he is a sociopath. There is something wrong with a person who can do this.

It is not like some annihlators that are the head of the houselhold and they feel,they cannot provide for their family. They are the head of the household in a very ridgid paternalistic way.

He did not kill them to save them from some kind of fate such as saving them from having to live in this evil world.

He killed them so that he could have a different life.

I don’t believe that one wakes up one day and has no disregard for people. That is a lifelong attribute
Power / Control / Freedom.
MOO
 
How was he aggressive in his pursuit of her? He sent her a friend request on facebook. (Per SW's video) A lot of people can be braver on the internet than in person.

I hate replying because I am not going to spend hours trying to find the citations. But believe it or not. I shall say MOO so here it is.

There are comments from SW that even though she was sick, he kept coming around and accepted her cancellations of dates. She said that she did everything to discoursge him but he kept pursuing her.
 
LE brought dogs to the premises but we haven’t been told whether they were search or cadaver dogs. They certainly barked a lot both inside and outside the house. It’s possible he may have confessed if LE told him that cadaver dogs had detected the smell of the deceased.

The scent of death: Police dogs and the Chris Watts investigation

I really thought I saw in his eyes that his mind was wandering when the dogs and the neighbor's camera were mentioned. Oooops
 
I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf


I don't know if you are still Gathering additions, nor do I know if anything that people updated you with are updated on the initial post of each thread.

I would add that his current story is that she killed the children. But yet, he smiles and laughs and preens when the shirt he is wearing, is mentioned by the media person. If your wife had just killed your children, and you in a rage killed her because she was killing your children, would you be wearing that shirt and smiling and preening and be so proud of it that you had to tell background on it, that she purchased that for you through Amazon?

( I'm still waiting for a Juan Martinez moment, when we learn that she actually was not the one that purchased the shirt)

Just one addition, I thought of a few, but first time I thought of posting to add to it.
 
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I hate replying because I am not going to spend hours trying to find the citations. But believe it or not. I shall say MOO so here it is.

There are comments from SW that even though she was sick, he kept coming around and accepted her cancellations of dates. She said that she did everything to discoursge him but he kept pursuing her.

No need to find the citations. I remember what you are saying. I wouldn't call that aggressive. I see that as patient.
 
Thanks for that. Its important to keep in mind that pregnant SW, the toddlers AND SW's remaining family are the victims here. CW is NOT a victim. He's painted himself into a corner with his outlandish fibs and his words have zero credibility. MOO.

You’re being far too generous nwmouse. A fib is a small, unimportant lie. His lies are atrocious, heinous, and just plain monstrous.
 
I believe the suggestion was that she got it for a reason other than an actual asthma diagnosis but was displaying its use on social media in order to promote the "fake" story that her kids had asthma.

The allegation was she likely has Munchausen's syndrome and was faking her children's illnesses for attention because she's a psychopathic narcissist.

In the meantime, comparatively speaking she has a very small percentage of posts about her or her children's illnesses and she speaks positively, not with the alarm and dread common to actual people with the condition.
My god, she’s been diagnosed with how many things just from people looking at her SM. The professionals will be out of work soon ! Lol.
 
IMO there were several underlying issues SW had that may attributed her to feel threatened by him leaving. Perhaps one of her parents or someone close made her feel insecure and that is why she was OCD and needed control of the little things and her surroundings.

I've gotta say this is almost insulting even as your opinion. I can see myself in this woman, I have two small kids, a husband who works hard for us, as do I, we sometimes struggle financially, it's feast or famine in his Iron worker line of work, I have child whom has many health issues requiring weekly infusions (very stressful). I too am very clean and organized, in fact my entire extended family jokes about it and it always stings a little bit, I don't know why, I know they are kidding, but I felt no control growing up for a myriad of reasons and sure maybe that's why I am the way I am now but our experiences throughout life make us who we are and it's insulting to this woman that you can make that jump. If SW is the kind of mom I feel she probably was, she loved those girls more than ANYTHING in this world and they would be her first concern. I'm trying to respect that everyone has an opinion here and you are certainly allowed to have your own, I just feel awful that anyone is even entertaining the idea that she hurt those babies. JMO but if my husband told me in the dead of night/early AM that he was leaving his family for someone else and there's an attack happening, it would 100% be me going after him. I would then pack his sh** and tell him to kick rocks.
 
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