Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #38

[sun16]

IMO I don't think CW ever considered killing himself. I think his motivation was purely selfish. He wanted his freedom and was determined to get it no matter the cost. MOO.

I agree with you. Just trying to figure out how dense he had to be to think he’d EVER get away with this.

 

[katydid23]

I agree with most of what you're saying, but do we know that Shannan was "present" when she could have been in Arizona or flying back to CO?

Good point. No we don't know that for sure.

 

[Kensie]

I agree with most of what you say, except I don't think that he *ever* intended to commit suicide. I think his reason for murdering SW and the toddlers was because he wanted freedom. MOO.

I feel the same way Mouse.

 

[MsBetsy]

Really? Why? Fed and bathed perhaps, still light outside....That's a wonderful feeling to play at that time imo.

Yes, in my experience every child I know wants to take full advantage of every minute of daylight. Its very hard to end the day at that age. Jmo

 

[NuttMegg]

Or in my style of parenting I would not want them inside unsupervised while I was outside, same idea. God Forbid they were already murdered and he was out there faking it like he did leaving for work on time and then in the tv interviews.

Maybe they were already in bed, having got to that part of the sugar high which is followed by sugar low. Out like lights. Maybe about that time the AP called to say she was through, after realizing pregnant wife was returning to happy family and AP was just the other woman again, and that's when he freaked out and killed them. Just full of anger and going crazy. Over something so simple as his having to run over to see the AP.

 

[k-mac]

Do you think he wanted to end his life without leaving the home or killing himself? Like he just felt totally stuck and saw no way out, and knew deep down he’d be caught and just figured...whatever. Like, just self destruct himself?

that smug person standing out the front of his house smirking about how he likes these t-shirts.....ALOT while his family is rotting out in an oilfield did not appear sad ...in shock.....grief stricken or ready to do himself in.

imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you so much, Layla! Is it my imagination or do they keep getting longer, lol?

I'm in agreement with Nurmi - the likelihood of CW's manslaughter story being proven is unlikely. Also, that CW's attorneys will advise him to plea.

MOO

Agree. Hoping for manslaughter would be an enormous risk they would not want to take. Jmo

 

[Seattle1]

Per her own words, SW put the girls to bed at 6:30 PM. After a 3-hour afternoon nap.

I recall a 6:30p bedtime statement once in a video about a time when Cece was teething, and had a public meltdown, followed by SW coming home and putting the girls to sleep at 6:30p. Where exactly has 6:30p been established as the current bedtime in August 2018? Also, never read about any 3 hour naps seemingly presented here as fact either.

 

[nwmouse]

I agree with you. Just trying to figure out how dense he had to be to think he’d EVER get away with this.

I think he was arrogant and stupid to think he could get away with murder in this day and age.
Much easier to get a divorce, pay child support and move on. Divorcing a pregnant wife is lousy but certainly a better choice than killing your family. I'll bet he is wishing he could turn back the clock.
He could have had his freedom and possibly a new partner.
Murder is final and never a solution.
MOO.

 

[Thepoet]

AB 10/04/18
1. Today C.W. did speak on the phone with SW’s parents and brother about probate. It was a 3 way conversation- Between the jail, Courtroom, and SW’s parents. Probate is not part of criminal case, but CW’s attorneys and the DA were all present for the conversation. The DA, Michael Rourke, sat in the gallery of the courtroom, as did Defense Attorney, John Walsh. The Judge sat at his desk. Defense Attorney, Kate Herold was at the jail seated right next to C.W. while he was on a phone. SW’s parents and brother were on a phone in North Carolina. We have no idea who spoke on that call. Hearing was scheduled to be one full hour, but only lasted 10 Minutes and 40 seconds. Since SW’s family was petitioning the court to take over SW’s estate, AB assumes the Judge asked C.W. if he opposed. AB was able to get 1/2 page of notes from the meeting, and on them it said that no one opposed, and specifically, C.W. did not oppose. Why would C.W. want to be in on that call if he wasn’t going to speak? SW’s family called for an emergency meeting so SW’s car and some Life Insurance could be dealt with in a timely manner.
2. CW’s truck was taken away as evidence weeks ago. All 3 bodies were in the back seat. Don’t know how long truck will be held as evidence. Police referred to CW’s truck as a “work truck.” AB showed photo of “1139” in the back window of CW’s truck which certainly makes it look like a work truck, but AB has asked but still not received an answer whether it’s a work truck or if it belonged to C.W. and SW.
3. Guest Attorney Kirk Nurmi (Jodi Arias’s Attorney) talks about probate hearing. Nurmi thinks a lot of things were left unsaid. Attorneys were there to make sure CW didn’t say anything incriminating. CW is under a microscope right now. DA was there to evaluate CW. He’s still trying to decide whether or not to file Death Penalty.
4. Guest, Probate Attorney, Bonnie Bowles, was asked her opinion of 10 minute Probate hearing. 10 minute hearing was probably normal for what they discussed today. It was only to appoint SW’s father as SW’s personal representative, as well as determine SWs heirs. Heirs probably weren’t discussed at that time because the meeting was so short, but they will probably schedule another meeting to discuss SW’s heirs in the future. SW didn’t leave a will, CW is entitled to be sole heir, but if he is convicted of murder, by state law, he is not entitled to anything.
5. Quick claim deed on house is made out equally to SW and C.W. Joint tenants. if CW is convicted, he will not be entitled to house. If he’s not convicted, it belongs to C.W.
6. Kirk Nurmi talks about what it is like to defend somebody everyone hates. How you feel about them personally doesn’t matter. You’re there to defend them. You ignore the animosity for our client. Given the abhorrent behavior, 2 children murdered, Nurmi thinks he would try to plead out before it ever made it to a courtroom, if the DP was off the table, and justice was being served. He would work with the County Attorney to try to resolve things in that manner. AB disagreed with Nurmi because C.W. blamed SW for children’s deaths. With that, C.W. might be able to convince one juror that he’s innocent. Nurmi disagreed with AB. He thinks AB’s perspective is a bit wishful because when you go before a jury with the fact pattern in this case, the reasonable doubt you have is lesser, decreased. We’re talking about a father killing his own children. Once jurors hear that, he’s going to be looked at with skeptical eyes. We also have inconsistent stories, here. CW’s attorneys have to consider what could be lost if he goes to trial. Could it be his entire life? Could it be lethal injection? That’s the calculus that has to be done. The likelihood of his manslaughter story being proven is probably unlikely. AB agrees, except she’s covered cases where irrationality was applied when determining reasonable doubt, like Casey Anthony and OJ. All it takes is one juror.
7. Couldn’t C.W. instruct his attorneys to go for it? Yes. Ultimately the only thing an Attorney can do is show CW the evidence and advise. They can’t twist the clients arm. It is entirely up to C.W.. Nurmi is guessing his attorneys, with this evidence, are trying to advise him to plea.
8. Will the Defense try to have CW’s confession suppressed? Nurmi says, depends on what the ultimate defense is, but if he is arguing manslaughter, his attorney can say C.W. made this confession, it was clearly against his interests because it was true. Therefore, the jury must convict him of manslaughter, not First Degree Murder. The confession is actually more favorable than the other outcomes if he goes to trial.
9. What’s it like to defend a client in a high profile case where everybody hates your client? Nurmi got death threats while defending Jodi Arias. Many people mistakenly believe that Public Defenders are there because they believe in and support their clients, but it’s not true. Defendants have constitutional rights. Public Defenders are assigned these cases.
10. How long will this take? Nurmi says it’s hard to say. If Colorado decides to seek the Death Penalty the time will drag on. Defense Attorneys will have to investigate CW’s life from birth to day of sentencing. That puts things on a different timeframe. Minimum 2 years is not unheard of, maybe more.
11. AB says Prosecutors are probably going to play the porch interviews at the trial, and everybody is going to think C.W. is a liar. Once a liar always a liar. How can Defense get over that? That’s going to be something CW and his attorneys will have to figure out. What was C.W. thinking at the time? What’s the explanation? Was he trying to be consistent with being innocent? Defense is going to have to try to explain.
Viewer Questions
1. Could it be that CW had his girlfriend over that weekend and he freaked out about the girls telling their mom, so he killed them? Maybe he killed SW at the top of the stairs where her phone was found, before he saw that her phone was missing? Sounds logical. Police have to run through every possible theory. Key part is we have a confession, and in that confession CW talks about how he sees SW killing the 2 girls and going into a rage and killing SW. That theory doesn’t fit with that confession. This is all part of the investigation. They made the arrest fairly quickly after the crime was committed. They’ve had all this time to put a case together. Next court date is November 19. They know what C.W. was doing, who he talked to, his affairs, his electronic footprint. They’re putting it all together.
2. What if SW was recording on her phone and she ran through that area and hid her phone right before she was killed. Evidence for the police. That would be a dying declaration. Video evidence has been used before. If that was the case this would play heavily in the prosecution of C.W.

BRAVO! Thanks so much. Great job!

 

[idfinch]

Interesting question! I know what you mean about some people feeling like they probably wouldn’t be friends w/Shanann. I’m not organized, my house is lived in/messy and the thought of posting a video of myself anywhere is horrifying. Nothing like Shanann at all. When I first met her I didn’t think we’d have much to say since we had nothing in common. Never expected to actually like her.

I tell you what—that girl grew on me something fierce. She didn’t care I was nothing like her— not one bit. She was just interested in getting to know me. I’ve heard the expression “didn’t have a judgmental bone in her body” before but never met anyone who personified it as much as Shanann. She was genuinely interested in everyone and a champion of their dreams big and small.

The last time I saw her I remember driving away thinking how much brighter my day was after talking to her, and impressed at how genuinely excited she was for one of our friends who just found out about a personal success.

At her Celebration of Life service, I was struck by the huge range of friends that were there. Rich, poor, polished, shlumpy, young,old, Moms, single people — she didn’t gravitate to a type. She gravitated to people, period. And kids. She loved kids.

Since she supported everyone around her it’s particularly distressing to see total strangers judge her without knowing her at all. Had they had the chance to know her for a bit, I think she might have grown on some of them too.

(apologize for the duplicate post— embedded it in a quote last time and couldn’t do it again if I tried)

This is absolutely beautiful and heartbreaking all at the same time. Shanann sounds like such a vibrant and loving person who touched everyone who knew her in some way. Everyone close to her seems to be grieving such a massive loss which says so much about her heart and her genuine kindness.

I can't tell you how deeply sorry I am for your loss. Thank you so much for helping us to get to know your friend a little better.

 

[nwmouse]

Interesting question! I know what you mean about some people feeling like they probably wouldn’t be friends w/Shanann. I’m not organized, my house is lived in/messy and the thought of posting a video of myself anywhere is horrifying. Nothing like Shanann at all. When I first met her I didn’t think we’d have much to say since we had nothing in common. Never expected to actually like her.

I tell you what—that girl grew on me something fierce. She didn’t care I was nothing like her— not one bit. She was just interested in getting to know me. I’ve heard the expression “didn’t have a judgmental bone in her body” before but never met anyone who personified it as much as Shanann. She was genuinely interested in everyone and a champion of their dreams big and small.

The last time I saw her I remember driving away thinking how much brighter my day was after talking to her, and impressed at how genuinely excited she was for one of our friends who just found out about a personal success.

At her Celebration of Life service, I was struck by the huge range of friends that were there. Rich, poor, polished, shlumpy, young,old, Moms, single people — she didn’t gravitate to a type. She gravitated to people, period. And kids. She loved kids.

Since she supported everyone around her it’s particularly distressing to see total strangers judge her without knowing her at all. Had they had the chance to know her for a bit, I think she might have grown on some of them too.

(apologize for the duplicate post— embedded it in a quote last time and couldn’t do it again if I tried)

Thank you for posting this, Colorado! Its beautifully stated. I'm sorry that you have to read negative things about SW online, as she seemed like a lovely person. I'm glad she has friends like you.

 

[WildWest]

She wasn't there. And, the kids were probably on a sugar high for hours after the party. When did they get back from the party?

Sugar high raises questions in my mind too. I wonder, he put them to bed at what time? Hopped up on sugar and the atmosphere of being with other children at the party and the excitement of the cake etc. Ugg.

 

[MyBelle]

Per her own words, SW put the girls to bed at 6:30 PM. After a 3-hour afternoon nap.

Yes, she did say that and I have no reason not to believe her. I thought everybody was aware that toddlers need a routine. Daycare and pre-schools would be chaotic without a fixed schedule. JMO

 

[tmar]

I think we have a deafening silence regarding the movement of the truck and her vehicle before that 5:30 (roughly) on Monday morning, firm sighting by neighbor & camera. Except that no other vehicle was seen except NUAs at 1:48 (roughly, I don't remember the exact minute). LE is withholding from us!!

At a recent case, just prior to the Hearing, and during it, a great deal of info was released.
We had been speculating for months, but after this evidence (CCTV, mobile phone pings etc), we were satisfied we have a guilty husband.

 

[kkdj]

Did anyone see CW bring the girls home after the birthday party?

Oh.....
I wonder what vehicle he drove to the party too.

 

[scdiv]

I wonder if LE recorded the conversation with CW and his father.
I assume all phone calls and face to face chats are recorded?
I wonder if that conversation will be played during the trial?

This came up threads and threads ago, but it reminded another poster here about the Lululemon case in Bethesda where a sales associate murdered her manager over a pair of yoga pants and blamed it on two masked male robbers. I have a personal connection with that case so followed the trial closely - The police started to doubt the (now convicted) girl's story, but didn't let on that they suspected her and just kept bringing her back to the police station to casually inquire about/"clear up" parts of her story. Multiple siblings of hers came with her and were allowed in and out of the interrogation room and at one point, the investigators left her alone with her brother and let them talk.

All of their conversations with each other were being recorded. In fact, the prosecutor was listening in and watching on live video feed, eating her Chipotle nachos and couldn't believe what she was hearing, and wondering if the girl had confessed enough to her brother to get a conviction off that. Then the brother told another sister, "She killed that girl" and they had that on tape as well. The consensus was that there should be no expectation of privacy in the jail/interrogation room (at least under Maryland law). (All of this is in the Dan Morse book The Yoga Store Murder.) She had not been placed under arrest or miranda-ized at this point. She still *felt* "free to leave" even if the investigators weren't going to let that happen.

Just using this as a specific example where a confession to a family member at a jail was taped/recorded and used to help get a conviction. Not sure what Colorado law allows.

 

[NuttMegg]

I agree with your post, NuttMegg.
I have had similar thoughts, after he confessed.
Where was CW after the birthday party, and where were his kids?
We know about the barbecue: was this just a decoy, that neighbours would place him being home!
Where was his truck?
He could have used SW's car for travels.
But as SW's car was in the garage when found, had he placed it there after his journeys.

I wonder if her car had a GPS too. Don't most new spiffy cars have them?

 

[MsBetsy]

Or in my style of parenting I would not want them inside unsupervised while I was outside, same idea. God Forbid they were already murdered and he was out there faking it like he did leaving for work on time and then in the tv interviews.

Yes, forgot about the age. Three and four is too young to be unsupervised. What time was the picnic that day? When would they have gotten home? Does anyone remember?

 

[katydid23]

Per her own words, SW put the girls to bed at 6:30 PM. After a 3-hour afternoon nap.

But SW wasn't there.