Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #5

[PaperFlowers]

Did I read it correctly...swabs on the necks and else where?

I believe it said "control swabs" elsewhere on the body. So that doesn't imply anything else, just a standard control, I would assume? But I'm new to this.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I worked for a refinery for 3 years. During that time, we had a pipeline rupture, and hot oil was spilling onto the roads between the refinery Units. Said oil was so hot that an employee's tires were melted as she was driving through this.

Does anyone know the average temperature of the oil?

It depends on the size and style of tank. If the oil is prepared for pumping. In Alaska the line itself is warm and super insulated. Then at every pump station a pig is inserted and the oil passes through heaters.

All crude tanks are computer monitored which should have indicated an unscheduled ingress into the tank for security purposes. I’m looking for size and whether roof was fixed or if it floated on top of the oil makes a difference. I really try not to write bad information.

 

[enelram]

It also speaks to recognition of guilt and a severe desire to avoid detection.

He didnt place them in graves with their blankies as if to leave them sleeping

He sought to destroy their bodies.

this is what I'm thinking also- destroy their bodies- destroy evidence.
Who else would better know the properties of oil, gas or crude oil
and what these chemicals do to the body, skin etc.
It wasn't just by chance that he threw them in a vat of oil, IMO.
He could have driven 20 miles out and buried them all.
He wanted to destroy all evidence he could.

 

[esmerelda]

I recently heard a surgeon friend ordered to attend "Anger Management" course after employees complained about hostile work environment. Don't know what that entails but that would be incredible if CW presentation was part of a prior mandate!

Totally OT. I attended school for a tech program, our clinicals were in the OR. One surgeon (divorcing) was given a phone to his ear during surgery. During this call he broke an instrument in half threw it across the room and walked out of the room. His assistant had to step in the patient ended up crashing. This surgeon had a track record

 

[Herat]

One reporter said their sources told them about it but they did not want to report until 100% sure because it was so horrific. I also read a story that said they drained the oil from the tanks to get the girls out which took quite some time.

I think this was a good move by the press.

This would severely sensationalize the case ( even more than already done) and likely result in a demand for change of venue, or even a closed courtroom

 

[searchinGirl]

The oil is heated. So they were in hot oil for that time.

Thank you for sharing that. It’s all getting down to science anymore. Oil may very well be a preservative to skin and perhaps DNA could still be found there. IDK I sense however the requests made are to reconstruct the Crime Scene. Verify whatever the guy says he did that made him kill his family. Or not and prove he’s lying.

I just thought of something. What if the girls got into that Thrive stuff? Overdose? Negligence? All just speculation on my part. That might explain the children, but not SW. They must have had a huge fight that went physical. Perhaps DNA findings would tell the story. I don’t see how he not guilty though.

 

[FlossyMay]

I'm not surprised his family is being quiet. I'm sure they are just as devastated and heartbroken as anyone else by these murders. His family convinced him to go to LE, which was the right thing to do. They are victims as well.

 

[Herat]

this is what I'm thinking also- destroy their bodies- destroy evidence.
Who else would better know the properties of oil, gas or crude oil
and what these chemicals do to the body, skin etc.
It wasn't just by chance that he threw them in a vat of oil, IMO.
He could have driven 20 miles out and buried them all.
He wanted to destroy all evidence he could.

More than destroy - he didnt mind obliterating their earthly remains from ever being found. Denying her relatives and friends the chance to get closure

I cant tell you how aggressive and venal this action is

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I scanned the list and didn't see it. More will be loaded on as they are filed.

Might come tomorrow at 10 am.

 

[Hotbell312]

Re the DNA swabs. The neck is the main site and elsewhere is for control. So mainly they are looking for his/someone else’s dna on the kids necks. The other part of the body is control (as in their own DNA). Atleast this is how I understood it. This case just has me devastated. I have two littles and I cannot even imagine. ESP. Her family’s sadness. I really hope the prosecutors bring everything they got.

 

[cattlekate]

I think this is why I am leaning (as far as the kids go) he planned on killing her . Did not think it out enough or whatever and got in a place where he felt he had choice if that makes sense??

Do you mean “no choice?”

I’m of the mind it could be argued CW was filled with so much rage at SW that he felt he had no choice to but kill her. He decided he had to also murder his children for altruistic reasons, as they would be so sad with Mommy gone and he wanted to spare them that sadness. He wanted them to all be in Heaven together.

I’m not arguing this, but it could be a defense platform.

 

[MrsWatson]

I did some looking around using "Thrive patches" etc., and got mostly negative info and some not-good thoughts on using them. They run from $100 -- $300/month. Some comments said it worked, some said it didn't do anything but make them jumpy and on edge.
I also googled "burn patches," and got their site, so now I'll probably be bombarded with sales pitches, etc.
My overall take was negative/doesn't work/expensive truth-in-advertising problems in the UK.
There were, of course, those who thought it worked.
It's not for me, based on what I read, but who knoze?

I found the same. My original thoughts that you could buy a case of Red Bull and some fancy Peppa Pig band-aids and get the same effect are reinforced. I'm in the UK and I'm not entirely sure if it's still for sale here or not. At least not marketed as is it in States.

 

[marable]

I did some looking around using "Thrive patches" etc., and got mostly negative info and some not-good thoughts on using them. They run from $100 -- $300/month. Some comments said it worked, some said it didn't do anything but make them jumpy and on edge.
I also googled "burn patches," and got their site, so now I'll probably be bombarded with sales pitches, etc.
My overall take was negative/doesn't work/expensive truth-in-advertising problems in the UK.
There were, of course, those who thought it worked.
It's not for me, based on what I read, but who knoze?

This LeVel/Thrive patches, drinks etc just seems "cultish" ...The people who promote this product are seemingly sucked in with promises of trips and cars , paid a very small percentage of what they sell ....Like a gambling addiction with the constant hope of selling more next month and the month after....

 

[Herat]

I found the same. My original thoughts that you could buy a case of Red Bull and some fancy Peppa Pig band-aids and get the same effect are reinforced. I'm in the UK and I'm not entirely sure if it's still for sale here or not. At least not marketed as is it in States.

Dont forget to take an aspirin, too. It has "willow bark" in it to help with joint pain.

BTW - there are a lot of reasons why someone shouldnt be taking aspirin, too. Dont see that warning on there

 

[MerryB]

From what has been described, the opening is 24-36 inches diameter, depending on the overall tank size.

I think he intended to put her in there, too. LE described the tank as almost full, so maybe he decided there wasnt enough space & the tank might overflow - leading to have someone check it out

I don't think the shallow grave she was put in was intended to be permanent. Likely he had other plans to put her in a tank the next night

Agree. I think it was harder to get her up and in there than he had imagined. The children were easy. I think her shallow grave was temporary until he could have more time/resources to get her into a tank.

 

[Herat]

Do you mean “no choice?”

I’m of the mind it could be argued CW was filled with so much rage at SW that he felt he had no choice to but kill her. He decided he had to also murder his children for altruistic reasons, as they would be so sad with Mommy gone and he wanted to spare them that sadness. He wanted them to all be in Heaven together.

I’m not arguing this, but it could be a defense platform.

There is always a CHOICE

Not killing someone is perfectly appropriate.

This is not defensible

 

[enelram]

Thank you for sharing that. It’s all getting down to science anymore. Oil may very well be a preservative to skin and perhaps DNA could still be found there. IDK I sense however the requests made are to reconstruct the Crime Scene. Verify whatever the guy says he did that made him kill his family. Or not and prove he’s lying.

I just thought of something. What if the girls got into that Thrive stuff? Overdose? Negligence? All just speculation on my part. That might explain the children, but not SW. They must have had a huge fight that went physical. Perhaps DNA findings would tell the story. I don’t see how he not guilty though.

SW had pics on sm of the girls eating a bag of ThriveK (for children?). Guess it's a kiddie version.

 

[searchinGirl]

I was counting in 24-hour increments, but I could definitely be wrong. It could also mean what you say. Maybe it doesn't mean much after all?

I hope I didn’t offend you, I’ve worked with beaureaucrats in Colorado before. After they explain it to you it begins to makes sense.

 

[TheDuchess]

I disagree. All of this just sets up for plea deals.

I mean let's say he's trying to prove it wasn't premeditated. And was second degree and not first. Well having victims who are dependent minors bumps that up to first degree anyhow:

• While occupying a position of trust with respect to a child under 12, you knowingly causing the death of the child.

Colorado "first degree murder" laws |18-3-102 C.R.S.

So there's no going to trial and getting that bumped down to second degree because it wasn't premeditated.

As far as an insanity defense, we all know that will go over as well as a deflated balloon. As The Duchess sort of alluded to, an insane person doesn't do calm interviews on the porch during which they carefully cover up their involvement and lie.

The defense knows they won't win with that.

But again, it is the duty of his attorneys to mount a zealous defense. Most of these motions they're likely just doing and not talking to him much about.

They are doing this stuff for various reasons:

1. Just in case he falsely confessed (which they know isn't true but just in case).
2. To help with plea deals.
3. To create/uncover mitigators to avoid a death penalty.

Personally, for many reasons, I do not believe in the DP. Religious reasons, but more importantly, so many cases that have turned out to be a false conviction, false confession, etc... Sometimes you can be just so sure ya know? So I don't like the finality of the DP as a whole. (Don't get me wrong, I won't be out protesting in the streets over it either.)

But I wonder sometimes if sparing killers the DP, when they probably deserve the DP, isn't more about their own surviving family members than anything else. Sure-execution is a permanent solution that allow victim families to move on, it takes forever sometimes and just as awful at times. With LWOP, that's it. A plea is struct. They sit in prison forever. No parole hearings, no appeals, no nothing. And yes, that person is still alive, their family can go and see them through the glass if they like and hopefully, the victim's families can find some peace, although they will never truly find peace after such a loss.

Now, just saying this to be the devil's advocate, but for those who may say they are 100% convinced he's guilty because he confessed here is a scenario that may make it seem possible he's not guilty. What if he woke up for work to find that she had killed herself and the kids. Distraught and not thinking clearly, he didn't want anyone to know that she had done this so he tried to cover up for her. Then he confessed under duress because he figured his life was over anyway and hopefully would get the death penalty. Then a lawyer stepped in and talked reason to him and he recanted. Far fetched? Surely. Have similar things happened? I believe they have. People falsely confess for all sorts of reasons, sometimes really stupid ones.

Is this the case here? Obviously 99.9% not but stranger things have happened so I hate the DP in cases where we might just kill one innocent person. And trust me. We've killed a lot of innocent people over the years.

 

[MerryB]

It’s strange .. But it did come to my mind when defense asked for DNA testing . They are looking for DNA of someone else , he must have told them something.

Or grasping for straws...anything that they can use to cause reasonable doubt.