GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[The Saint]

Yes. There was no way a 30 yr old woman who was active on FB ( until this all broke loose) and was having an affair with a married man, did not do some online research into his wife/home life. I didn't believe one word out of her mouth. When I saw that posed studio photograph that accompanied the interview I thought it obvious there was some 'spin' involved. Damage control.

I read several times in her statements to LE, that she wasn't on social media. But later, it said she had searched "Shanann Watts" and "Chris Watts."

 

[gitana1]

This is minor in the grand scheme of this family's dysfunction, but I found it absolutely bizarre that Mama Watts called her son's friend to complain about her conflicts with Shanann. Okay, I guess it is not that bizarre for this family, but still.

WHY is Mrs. Watts calling Chris' FRIEND, who lives in California, to complain about SW and the ice cream nut incident to him? She's worried about losing her adult son so instead of anyone in this side of the family communicating effectively, she calls her son's friend and gets him involved? CW was maybe standing up to his mother (big maybe) or abiding by his wife's wishes. Mama Watts doesn't like that so she calls his friend to talk some sense into Chris so she can get her way! It feels so inappropriate. His mother was so enmeshed in his life. Most adult men would be absolutely mortified if their mother was making calls to their friends to complain about and involve them in private family dynamics.

Page 728:
JAMIESON said that he knew CHRIS was busy, and that he had a lot going on with the family, such as SHANANN and CHRIS’ mom fighting again. JAMIESON said CHRIS’ mom, CINDY, called him about it, and that he was upset with CHRIS for letting this go on. JAMIESON said that he told CHRIS that it had to stop the fighting between SHANANN and CINDY. JAMIESON said CHRIS replied that he understood, and told JAMIESON that he and SHANANN were going to separate and get a divorce. JAMIESON told CHRIS that he was there if he needed to talk and told him to reach out to him some more but CHRIS never did.

JAMIESON said that SHANANN and CINDY were fighting over CELESTE eating ice cream that CELESTE was allergic to. JAMIESON said that CINDY kicked SHANANN out of the house. JAMIESON said shortly after this, CINDY called him crying, worried that she had lost CHRIS because SHANANN would turn CHRIS against her, as has happened in the past. JAMIESON said that is what prompted him to reach out to CHRIS with the text message.

Well now she really lost him. She tried her damndest to get rid of Shanann, IMO. And she succeeded. But in the process she also lost it all.

Sadly, future mothers and fathers of family annihilators won't get the hint and quit trying to dominate and interfere with their children's lives. They will never see themselves in theCindy and Ronnie Wattses and Cindy Anthonys and Lee and Jackie Peterson's of the world.

 

[Larry Levine]

Welcome to Websleuths Larry.

If his parents wish to visit him, does Chris need to give his consent?

If he denies consent, does the prison reply WTTE "He does not wish to see you at this time" or a more general "He does not wish to see any visitors at this time"?

All proposed visitors have to fill out visiting application form and send it in for approval. The DOC does a background on the proposed visitor. Once they are approved the inmate is notified and can elect to have the visitor removed from their approved list. Seen this happen when a married inmate has a girlfriend who put in an application and he needs to take her off the list. I've seen crazy situations when two women show up at the same time for the same inmate and the ladies start fighting in the visiting room! That's some real Jerry Spinger *advertiser censored* there!

 

[book-thinker]

Weren’t there texts where Shanann said he slept in the basement on Thursday night? I couldn’t begin to remember what page I saw that on

somewhere close to page 505-511, Shannon mentioning this in a text CW sleeping in the basement

 

[gitana1]

Yes, I agree 100%. He was getting weak and they were throwing out ways in which he could still see himself as less of a monster and admit to doing something. He latched on like a drowning man and ran with it...as it fit well with his parents’ hatred of SW. his calm, cool, casual demeanor...which this evidence only brings further to light now, in the hours and day following...even driving by a comp house the realtor suggested for figuring out the market value of his house, all make it quite clear this BS scenario he came up with would never have flown with a jury. I do wonder what made him jump from whispering to his dad that she smothered the kids to she strangled them the next moment. I am sure it was a hasty lie he came to regret when the autopsy reports came out.

It's embarrassing how quickly he changed from "I didn't do anything.." to claiming Shanann killed his kids, after the investigator suggested it. Like a small child caught doing something and latching on stupidly to whatever their parent throws out there to see if they come up with an excuse.

His thinking is incredibly juvenile. He really does seem to have low intelligence. I thought he was supposed to be such a whiz in school? I think the one guy who described him definitively as just average was probably more on target. This guy is almost simple-minded.

 

[The Saint]

@LarryLevine,
Do you believe Chris' mom when she said that her son's lawyers kept her, Chris' dad ,and Chris' sister
from speaking to Chris before he made the plea?

Or do you think Chris just didn't want to see them?

 

[Johnny1181]

I wish CW would submit to a brain scan to help science. There definitely is something off. He had the smarts to be a NASCAR mechanic which takes
detailed precision. His co-workers at Anardarkocalled him Rain Man because he could remember every tank and what its problems were.

But this same brain detached or compartmentalized enough to murder his family in a gruesome manner and dispose of the bodies in even a worse way.

Is something in his brain damaged and normal electrical connections for empathy are lost?

Eh.... evil is just evil sometimes. As hard as is it is to go to sleep with for most of us. Compartmentalization is not biological generally... it's a social and psychological construct.

Certainly it takes a particularly devious mind to do what he did, particularly as evidenced in the released files.

He's no rainman, can't believe a word he says or a persona he presents.

His actions actually show very low intelligence and foresight.

He's just a run of the mill lying, cheating, heart breaking, family annihilator imo. An evil that rarely presents but exists. Just pure evil. jmo

 

[The Saint]

somewhere close to page 505-511, Shannon mentioning this in a text CW sleeping in the basement

They had lots of bedrooms. Why wouldn't Chris sleep in what would become Nico's nursery? Or was that SW's office at the moment?

Was there a door to the outside from the basement where CW could go and come as he pleased without SW or the house alarm tracking systems knowing his movements?

 

[The Saint]

Rather than the basement, why didn't Chris sleep on the couch in the loft?

 

[Best of What's Around]

I have my own theories with this. Killers like Edmund Kemper took their rage for their overbearing and cold mothers out on their victims. Many have noticed that Cindy and SW are both strong personalities (though Shanann showed she can be very warm and caring). I think he resents women like this, women who are assertive.

NK may have been assertive sexually but I get the sense she was, like most affair partners, more accommodating and passive emotionally. I think he began to see his daughters as bossy extensions of his wife. I keep seeing examples of CW speaking of them in a negative light and it's so sad.

Nichol said CW mentioned he knew he needed to separate from Shanann because the girls started to repeat the same negative things to him Shanann would say. And then there's this part of the document where he describes his routine with the girls. He sounds like he was full of disdain for them and found them demanding. His toddler children.

I think that is a great point! Very solid. I also think he BELIEVED NK to be more passive...but I think we have seen that she was likely not going to turn out to be what she appeared on the surface down the road. She certainly seems to take care of #1, and that would not have been CW. He was a fool, and a wicked one in the end at that. So sad all around, IMO.

 

[gitana1]

Discovery Page 1278: Trent Bolte.
I initially dismissed it as hogwash, but after reading TB's statement to the FBI I can't help feeling a ring of truth in his description of CW and his sick behavior.
What do y'all think?

moo

It matches with the need for sociopaths to up their risk behaviors in order to feel something. To feel excitement.

He wasn't even trying to hide the affair with NK, really, from Shanann. Why? Why put a dinner on the credit xcard instead of paying cash?

The risk of getting caught or manipulating his way out of trouble, is fun.

 

[Johnny1181]

I feel like the basement sleeping was a setup and a show for the AP. But then I again I am of the opinion this was completely premeditated.

 

[Larry Levine]

@LarryLevine,
Do you believe Chris' mom when she said that her son's lawyers kept her, Chris' dad ,and Chris' sister from speaking to Chris before he made the plea?

Or do you think Chris just didn't want to see them?

I don't think any lawyer has the authority to block any inmate from seeing a vistior. That would have to be something the inmate would decide. The Plea was a smart move because it got him to prison quicker. Look this guy knew he was never getting out, and COUNTY JAIL REALLY SUCKS. Prison is much better. Don't kid yourself, there is a BIG difference. Although he's not gonna have much of a life inside the Colorado slam and he lacks an out date. So for him to take any inmate programs really means nothing. Won't change his sentence. Every six months they will evaluate him, Counselor, Case Manager, Unit Manager and maybe a shrink to make sure he hasn't violated any rules and is in complaince.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Rather than the basement, why didn't Chris sleep on the couch in the loft?

Children were light sleepers if he wanted to watch tv or play things on his phone? Because it fit better with his possible stance to the mistress that he was separated within the house from his wife - had an actual room of his own? Privacy? Just a few thoughts.

 

[Johnny1181]

Has there been a definitive opinion so to speak as to whether or not the AP searched him in 2017? Or if this was a typo? This is confusing me.

 

[Deleted member 134862]

Pages 2117 & 2118
From Sunday, August 13
1705 hours: CW's text to the coworker about going directly to the site the next morning alone.
1946 hours: Shanann asked "Hey honey, kids in bed" and asked for pictures. Watts replied "Bella just back in bed." Shanann noted, "They must be exhausted."

Watts resent the images from earlier in the day (at the dinner table). He also added an image of Bella taken at the birthday party earlier that day.

What do we think about the fact that SW asked for pictures and CW re-sent pictures from earlier in the day instead of sending any current pictures of the girls sleeping? Had he already killed the girls? Especially given the text to the coworker insisting he could go to that oil site alone first thing?

I simply can't believe he did not murder the babies before SW. I think the fact he gave her earlier photos of Bella speaks to it. Also, it is obvious he had this planned for the weekend. He attended the party. What possible use were the girls to him after that? Why would he keep them around a few more hours just to wait till he murdered their mom?
I also assumed him speaking about how they looked in the monitors was probably how he was looking at them making sure they "passed" for sleeping just in case SW looked at the monitors to make sure her babies were sound asleep. Hence his drop of truth about how he saw the kids looking blue in the monitors.
I am sure I might wrong, but given his mindset, I just do not see him keeping the kids alive. That plus the fact no one saw them after the b'day party... I think he got rid of them as soon as he decided to kick off his new life.
If there is a silver lining in the terribly bad saga...it is that CW will never get the an%l sex that the resident D-list version of Glenn Close was trying to use as lure to snag her man. <Blech>

 

[Best of What's Around]

I don't think any lawyer has the authority to block any inmate from seeing a vistior. That would have to be something the inmate would decide. The Plea was a smart move because it got him to prison quicker. Look this guy knew he was never getting out, and COUNTY JAIL REALLY SUCKS. Prison is much better. The is a BIG difference. Although he's not gonna have much of a life inside the Colorado slam and he lacks an out date. So for him to take and programs mean nothing. Won't change his sentence. Every six months they will evaluate him, Counselor, Case Manager, Unit Manager and maybe a shrink to make sure he hasn't violated any rules and is in complaince.

That's amazing that county jail is worse than prison. Because technically, aren't the people held there not yet convicted of anything? So I would think they should (in theory) have it better than those who have been adjudicated and found to be actually guilty of something...as opposed to someone who might be "innocent" yet awaiting trial. IMO

 

[gitana1]

I actually dont buy his line that they had an 'emotional argument' He lied about so many other things and when you read the communication between him and SW in the last two weeks he barely wanted to speak with her. She was asking him hard questions, he didnt even want to answer.. just walked away or went to bed at various times. I actually think he had no conversation, he just let her go to sleep then strangled her.

Me too. Oh her mascara was probably running as tears of pain and horror leaked from her eyes during the strangulation.

And maybe on one occasion she did say those words to him.

There's always a grain of truth. True. His text at 5:06 pm that day to his work mate in order to ensure he had privacy at the very same location he ended up dumping the bodies the next day, makes clear this was coldly premeditated. At least to me.

Just like Christian Longo. I think he made a decision and carried it through when he got the chance.

The whole thing is gruesome.

 

[escape2sc]

Rather than the basement, why didn't Chris sleep on the couch in the loft?

1) From his own words he said he was madly in love with NK and had never felt like that about anyone before. Sleeping in the same area as Shanann, in his warped mind was being unfaithful to NK
or
2) He was emotionally distancing himself from Shanann
or
3) He slept in the basement so Shanann would not catch him texting or talking with NK late at night
or all of the above IMO

 

[Johnny1181]

I don't think any lawyer has the authority to block any inmate from seeing a vistior. That would have to be something the inmate would decide. The Plea was a smart move because it got him to prison quicker. Look this guy knew he was never getting out, and COUNTY JAIL REALLY SUCKS. Prison is much better. Don't kid yourself, there is a BIG difference. Although he's not gonna have much of a life inside the Colorado slam and he lacks an out date. So for him to take and programs mean nothing. Won't change his sentence. Every six months they will evaluate him, Counselor, Case Manager, Unit Manager and maybe a shrink to make sure he hasn't violated any rules and is in complaince.

The inmate may act upon his attorney's advice though? It's odd to me he basically has refused all contact and input. Inmate decision or attorney advice?