GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[human]

Speaking of money, how about the burden of their house.

It appears to me SW, didn't want to sell the house and CW did. Then SW mentioned CW had inside info that an oil facility was going to be built in the area around their house, which would reduce the value. I couldn't find confirmation that this is a fact, or a CW lie from in an attempt to get her to sell.

In her texts or is it emails to a friend, she wants to sell the house and leave Colorado

 

[kaykay543]

Not that it matters, but it is confusing.

Her emails or texts is it, with a friend indicate she is through with him.

But her parents said they knew nothing was wrong.

NUA apparently does not know that SW wants out.

Is it on her FB when she is in Arizona, she writes that she can hardly wait to see him and the kids.

It sounds like she wanted out, was going to move and she was going to take the kids, He would not have to take care of them. Except for money, he would be a bachelor.

Was it all about money?

It is confusing! I think I remember though later texts SW sent a friend saying CW agreed to work on things and that it was going to be ok etc. so then she was excited to go home and see him? I think he was lulling her into a false sense of security

It’s hard as most of us have been reading the texts out of sequence.

 

[cybervampira]

It is confusing! I think I remember though later texts SW sent a friend saying CW agreed to work on things and that it was going to be ok etc. so then she was excited to go home and see him? I think he was lulling her into a false sense of security

It’s hard as most of us have been reading the texts out of sequence.

I think she had mixed emotions and grasped at that straw when CW said he was ready to work things out. He had been stonewalling her, she pushed for answers and got none.

After CW arrived in NC, she suddenly met a man she didn’t know and that caused cognitive dissonance. I think in her confused state, it’s normal to vacillate between anger, devastation, hope, and all kinds of feelings. She wanted to hold on to the man she knew. That man was gone, but how can anyone understand that shift took place within a few weeks? It‘s crazymaking, so it’s a natural reaction to go from ”screw him, I move out, and he‘s not going to get custody“ to ”Maybe it‘s me?“ to ”He said it‘s going to be fine, I‘m so relieved and happy to see him.“.

 

[kaykay543]

I think she had mixed emotions and grasped at that straw when CW said he was ready to work things out. He had been stonewalling her, she pushed for answers and got none.

After CW arrived in NC, she suddenly met a man she didn’t know and that caused cognitive dissonance. I think in her confused state, it’s normal to vacillate between anger, devastation, hope, and all kinds of feelings. She wanted to hold on to the man she knew. That man was gone, but how can anyone understand that shift took place within a few weeks? It‘s crazymaking, so it’s a natural reaction to go from ”screw him, I move out, and he‘s not going to get custody“ to ”Maybe it‘s me?“ to ”He said it‘s going to be fine, I‘m so relieved and happy to see him.“.

Yes I agree. Then throw in being pregnant Into the mix. He was so gaslighting her. I can’t read the texts anymore as it just upsets me too much. She was desperately wanting to save her family.

 

[scdiv]

Leastwise this poor guy could get some sleep (next to a photograph of one or both of his precious daughters) after he got already interviewed for a while. And to be honest I don't think that any clear thinking human being will ever understand what went on in his mind. I don't believe he really slept this night, not because of the killings (they were no big deal for him, obviously) but because of this entire situation - Adrenaline must have kicked in (not just for his poor victims) and he didn't know what would lie adhead of him. Although I don't believe he was expecting to much trouble - I mean, hey, he had such a plausible story prepared .

But maybe he had a short nap on the couch... shortly after looking at his clock. (Oh, after all the work is done... and I have some hours left, I'll need to rest a little bit to kill time after I killed anybody else in this house) and than he felt asleep. After that he "loaded" the dead bodies of his previous family calmly into his work truck and drove away. For a happy future and a new life with the most amazing, unique and electric woman ever! *heart heart heart*

And then drove to work, lugged bodies, dug a shallow grave, climbed narrow steep stairs (twice), did the unthinkable (twice), took flower pics for his girlfriend, called the girls' school, called a realtor....just crazy.

 

[WildWest]

Weird, I live in the middle of podunk nowhere and saw a LeVel distributor car today. Sadly as too many other things I immediately thought of the 4 souls lost too soon and their families (insert sad smilie)

Speaking of money, how about the burden of their house.

It appears to me SW, didn't want to sell the house and CW did. Then SW mentioned CW had inside info that an oil facility was going to be built in the area around their house, which would reduce the value. I couldn't find confirmation that this is a fact, or a CW lie from in an attempt to get her to sell.

Can someone tell me more about josh, his texts to CW and his family staying with the Colorado Watts for awhile, some texts led me to believe Josh and fam were moving in so SW could leave CW. I apologize for asking for info that has likely already been said, just too many threads to find it.

 

[scdiv]

Weird, I live in the middle of podunk nowhere and saw a LeVel distributor car today. Sadly as too many other things I immediately thought of the 4 souls lost too soon and their families (insert sad smilie)

Can someone tell me more about josh, his texts to CW and his family staying with the Colorado Watts for awhile, some texts led me to believe Josh and fam were moving in so SW could leave CW. I apologize for asking for info that has likely already been said, just too many threads to find it.

I didn't get the sense there is much to this. Josh's wife sold Thrive and was a good friend of SW. I believe Josh got a new job in CO and his family would be moving out there. I think they were figuring out their own housing situation. Both CW & SW had offered that Josh/family could stay with them until they had a place to live. They weren't moving in so that SW could leave CW.

Only when SW started telling Josh's wife how CW was being a jerk, did Josh's wife start talking about how she and Josh could move in with SW and SW said the house was in CW's name. Really I think that Josh was coming out for a new job and he and his family were stressed about where they were live. If SW and CW were going to split, maybe that would be an option or temporary option, but I don't think they were being fully serious about it. It definitely wasn't why they were moving to CO.

 

[PommyMommy]

I do not recall, where does CW "admit" he slept that fateful night when SW returned?

I can't remember if we saw evidence of what their inside cameras showed or not. Did we see anything in the releases or just what chris said about having cameras inside and no movement on the main level? Because if the camera wasn't turned off, and if it didn't pick up movement, then either Chris was a ghost, or he was upstairs in the bedroom area. He may have slept in the bed, and Shanann slept in the loft area where her phone was found.

Although it's not perfectly clear, I believe if he slept on the night of the 12th, it was in the master bedroom.

CW talks about sleeping arrangements on Pg 12 (Discovery pg 57):

Chris said he has slept in the basement a few times because of the separation. He said it was probably Thursday night into Friday. He advised the kids sleep in their own beds. Sgt. Bakes asked about the sheets in the master bedroom. Chris advised she usually jumps into bed after being in the airport and will wash the sheets the next day to get the airport off them.

Chris advised he was in the master bedroom last night.

*****

Unfortunately, the report says "he was in the master bedroom" instead of "he slept in the master bedroom," but I think what is meant is the latter.

 

[Tigerlily75]

In his interviews with detectives he says he felt SW get into bed when she got home at 2am, so that would mean he (says he) was in the master bed.

 

[Tigerlily75]

In her texts or is it emails to a friend, she wants to sell the house and leave Colorado

I don't think "want" is the right word, what she clearly wanted was to save her marriage. But given how CW was acting, she was thinking about what she would do if they did indeed separate. She didn't believe she could afford to raise three kids alone in Colorado.

 

[Thepoet]

My brain will not let go of that Sunday night.

Scenario 1: CW kills the girls, talks to NK until SW gets home and kills her, then hangs out/pretends to sleep/really sleeps, half *advertiser censored* staging until he can load and go to work.

Scenario 2: girls are sleeping in bed, CW talks on phone to NK, SW gets home, CW kills SW - then girls. Then what-sleeps, pretends to sleep, half *advertiser censored* staging until he can load and leave for work.

He couldn't have gotten any sleep with his dead family in the house, right. The sleep issue was brought up previously. He never looked tired to me. He always looked "on". Coffee, adrenalin, thrive, . . .

I guess the image I can't reconcile is CW in the house for x hours, with three dead bodies. Doing what?

Any other Scenario's?

I’ve been away, but I’ve followed the news and I’ve been giving things a great deal of thought. I believe I know what CW had planned and what followed. I believe this covers all of the facts!

I believe CW’s plan was to murder his daughters first and prepare things for Shanann’s arrival home between 10:30 and 11:00 P.M.. When Shanann arrived home, he would murder her and then load the bodies, suitcase, purse, etc., into the Lexus, which was in the garage. He would then drive out of the garage, probably after midnight, and go to a predetermined location to dump the Lexus. Highway 52 is just South of the Watts neighborhood and a right turn on Highway 52 leads to several small and larger lakes. CW was probably in good enough condition to run home. Even a distance of 10 to 15 miles would have taken no more than 2 to 2 ½ hours. He probably planned to come around the back of his house and go over the fence when he returned home. Once home he does some clean up and maybe takes a nap. He then goes to work as he normally does and perhaps talks to fellow employees about Shanann leaving him, after their “emotional discussion”. CW may have planned to text himself from SW’s phone before he disposed of the Lexus and it’s contents. He still wouldn’t have expected NUA to show up at the house or to be so persistent, but in this scenario, there would be NO trace of Shanann or the girls at the house, the Lexus would be gone, and the neighbor’s video would show the Lexus leaving the garage. CW could claim this was Shanann leaving, after the “emotional discussion”. In this scenario his story comes together and holds, at least for a while. And it makes sense.

BUT, SW’s flight is delayed! If the girls have already been murdered, CW has no choice, except to proceed, even though his plan is messed up! If the girls are already murdered, he CANNOT postpone his plans! By the time SW finally arrives home CW no longer has the time to murder her, load the Lexus, drive to the spot to dispose of the car and contents, and return home. At that point he has to improvise, and he comes up with the idea of the oil tanks. With his plans in a shambles he leaves the suitcase, purse, etc., at home to be dealt with later, calls his co-worker to tell him not to come to the work site, loads the truck (being caught on video), and goes to the work site to hide the bodies. This explains the chaos, things left behind at the house, the shallow grave and the lost sheet; he was planning on the fly and running out of time. The rest is as we have seen. Shanann finally arrived home 1:50 A.M. I believe he murdered her not long after she walked into the house. No reason to wait. That would explain her make-up still on. If she was attacked in the alcove, pushed face first into the sofa and held down, that would explain "no offensive or defensive marks", as well as the phone in the cushions (she was holding it and dropped it when attacked). The next three (3) hours were probably spent preparing the bodies (SW in the sheet, etc.), doing some cleaning, and maybe a short nap. Three (3) hours would go by fast! Especially if he was improvising and, running in circles, and/or backtracking, etc., to cover himself.

CW had already distanced himself from his family. They had become nothing more than an obstruction to be removed. He had no feelings for his daughters and they were probably an annoyance. There was no reason to keep them alive after the face time with their grandfather. If they were still alive AFTER the flight was delayed, why wouldn’t he postpone the murders? Continuing his murder plan after the flight delay created a number of risks. There is no doubt he was in a hurry to begin his new life, but not in so chaotic a manner, unless he was forced to do so, by the earlier murders of his daughters!

I agree with the description of CW on the DR Phil show. I have come to believe that, from his mother to Shanann; he had always had to pursue and/or work for his relationships. Not with NK! NK was the first woman who pursued CW and it was so new and intoxicating for him, that it created an urgency in him that couldn't be denied and it propelled him to do the unimaginable!


BBM MOO

 

[SassynOz]

This is my vote as a local. What a wonderful idea, something like this, maybe a little play area, “Bella Celeste Park”. We have seen this done with Jessica Ridgeway, Abby and Libby (softball park)...oh we have to get Niko in there too.

I think the community could benefit from this. Maybe a little community center building.

I’m not sure how others feel about this.

Of course I personally could never live in that house, but there are others I’m sure who could and would, especially for a deal. It’s booming out here, moo. They say thousands are moving to Colorado every month so I would not expect it to necessarily be that less expensive, so to speak. Supply is low and demand is high, moo.

Someone new moved into the Ramsay house, right? Iirc it sold for a lot of money, considering it’s Boulder. I think I looked that up one time...need to go back and check...I think the value has probably quadrupled by now. (I’m no real estate expert.)

The builders, etc may choose an approach to just bury that it ever happened and just sell the house and try to forget about it, idk....

It’s had several owners. No one seemed to stay very long. They changed the address we’ll house number. There was a fence up at one point . My parents lived in the Brighton area first time I went to visit I admit I stalked out the house. I was fascinated with that case. My daughter was same age as JBR my dad actually knew JR through work. When I went to the house it was empty many many years ago. There was easy access to the alley and the back of the house. I creeped in to look at the basement windows. It was so easy to prowl around there unnoticed it was unsettling how no one payed any attention.

 

[riolove77]

I just dropped a bar of soap in the shower and immediately thought of CW. I hope he’s dropping his left and right.

 

[k-mac]

I’ve been away, but I’ve followed the news and I’ve been giving things a great deal of thought. I believe I know what CW had planned and what followed. I believe this covers all of the facts!

I believe CW’s plan was to murder his daughters first and prepare things for Shanann’s arrival home between 10:30 and 11:00 P.M.. When Shanann arrived home, he would murder her and then load the bodies, suitcase, purse, etc., into the Lexus, which was in the garage. He would then drive out of the garage, probably after midnight, and go to a predetermined location to dump the Lexus. Highway 52 is just South of the Watts neighborhood and a right turn on Highway 52 leads to several small and larger lakes. CW was probably in good enough condition to run home. Even a distance of 10 to 15 miles would have taken no more than 2 to 2 ½ hours. He probably planned to come around the back of his house and go over the fence when he returned home. Once home he does some clean up and maybe takes a nap. He then goes to work as he normally does and perhaps talks to fellow employees about Shanann leaving him, after their “emotional discussion”. CW may have planned to text himself from SW’s phone before he disposed of the Lexus and it’s contents. He still wouldn’t have expected NUA to show up at the house or to be so persistent, but in this scenario, there would be NO trace of Shanann or the girls at the house, the Lexus would be gone, and the neighbor’s video would show the Lexus leaving the garage. CW could claim this was Shanann leaving, after the “emotional discussion”. In this scenario his story comes together and holds, at least for a while. And it makes sense.

BUT, SW’s flight is delayed! If the girls have already been murdered, CW has no choice, except to proceed, even though his plan is messed up! If the girls are already murdered, he CANNOT postpone his plans! By the time SW finally arrives home CW no longer has the time to murder her, load the Lexus, drive to the spot to dispose of the car and contents, and return home. At that point he has to improvise, and he comes up with the idea of the oil tanks. With his plans in a shambles he leaves the suitcase, purse, etc., at home to be dealt with later, calls his co-worker to tell him not to come to the work site, loads the truck (being caught on video), and goes to the work site to hide the bodies. This explains the chaos, things left behind at the house, the shallow grave and the lost sheet; he was planning on the fly and running out of time. The rest is as we have seen. Shanann finally arrived home 1:50 A.M. I believe he murdered her not long after she walked into the house. No reason to wait. That would explain her make-up still on. If she was attacked in the alcove, pushed face first into the sofa and held down, that would explain "no offensive or defensive marks", as well as the phone in the cushions (she was holding it and dropped it when attacked). The next three (3) hours were probably spent preparing the bodies (SW in the sheet, etc.), doing some cleaning, and maybe a short nap. Three (3) hours would go by fast! Especially if he was improvising and, running in circles, and/or backtracking, etc., to cover himself.

CW had already distanced himself from his family. They had become nothing more than an obstruction to be removed. He had no feelings for his daughters and they were probably an annoyance. There was no reason to keep them alive after the face time with their grandfather. If they were still alive AFTER the flight was delayed, why wouldn’t he postpone the murders? Continuing his murder plan after the flight delay created a number of risks. There is no doubt he was in a hurry to begin his new life, but not in so chaotic a manner, unless he was forced to do so, by the earlier murders of his daughters!

I agree with the description of CW on the DR Phil show. I have come to believe that, from his mother to Shanann; he had always had to pursue and/or work for his relationships. Not with NK! NK was the first woman who pursued CW and it was so new and intoxicating for him, that it created an urgency in him that couldn't be denied and it propelled him to do the unimaginable!


BBM MOO

pretty good break down poet I agree with everything u say with the exception he was always disposing of them at the oil tanks.
he arranged the day before to be there alone, which was out of character to do so.

he could have gotten rid of the lexus while waiting for shanann to come home.

I don't think he thought that far ahead.
the reason to off a spouse is usually about not wanting to share finances.
everything including the car that was shananns work perk was his. (in his head)

we'll always wonder if he had the chance to get home after work, nobody had raised the alarm what staging he would have done.

I don't think the car would or could have been apart of it at that late stage.

moo

 

[human]

I’ve been away, but I’ve followed the news and I’ve been giving things a great deal of thought. I believe I know what CW had planned and what followed. I believe this covers all of the facts!

I believe CW’s plan was to murder his daughters first and prepare things for Shanann’s arrival home between 10:30 and 11:00 P.M.. When Shanann arrived home, he would murder her and then load the bodies, suitcase, purse, etc., into the Lexus, which was in the garage. He would then drive out of the garage, probably after midnight, and go to a predetermined location to dump the Lexus. Highway 52 is just South of the Watts neighborhood and a right turn on Highway 52 leads to several small and larger lakes. CW was probably in good enough condition to run home. Even a distance of 10 to 15 miles would have taken no more than 2 to 2 ½ hours. He probably planned to come around the back of his house and go over the fence when he returned home. Once home he does some clean up and maybe takes a nap. He then goes to work as he normally does and perhaps talks to fellow employees about Shanann leaving him, after their “emotional discussion”. CW may have planned to text himself from SW’s phone before he disposed of the Lexus and it’s contents. He still wouldn’t have expected NUA to show up at the house or to be so persistent, but in this scenario, there would be NO trace of Shanann or the girls at the house, the Lexus would be gone, and the neighbor’s video would show the Lexus leaving the garage. CW could claim this was Shanann leaving, after the “emotional discussion”. In this scenario his story comes together and holds, at least for a while. And it makes sense.

BUT, SW’s flight is delayed! If the girls have already been murdered, CW has no choice, except to proceed, even though his plan is messed up! If the girls are already murdered, he CANNOT postpone his plans! By the time SW finally arrives home CW no longer has the time to murder her, load the Lexus, drive to the spot to dispose of the car and contents, and return home. At that point he has to improvise, and he comes up with the idea of the oil tanks. With his plans in a shambles he leaves the suitcase, purse, etc., at home to be dealt with later, calls his co-worker to tell him not to come to the work site, loads the truck (being caught on video), and goes to the work site to hide the bodies. This explains the chaos, things left behind at the house, the shallow grave and the lost sheet; he was planning on the fly and running out of time. The rest is as we have seen. Shanann finally arrived home 1:50 A.M. I believe he murdered her not long after she walked into the house. No reason to wait. That would explain her make-up still on. If she was attacked in the alcove, pushed face first into the sofa and held down, that would explain "no offensive or defensive marks", as well as the phone in the cushions (she was holding it and dropped it when attacked). The next three (3) hours were probably spent preparing the bodies (SW in the sheet, etc.), doing some cleaning, and maybe a short nap. Three (3) hours would go by fast! Especially if he was improvising and, running in circles, and/or backtracking, etc., to cover himself.

CW had already distanced himself from his family. They had become nothing more than an obstruction to be removed. He had no feelings for his daughters and they were probably an annoyance. There was no reason to keep them alive after the face time with their grandfather. If they were still alive AFTER the flight was delayed, why wouldn’t he postpone the murders? Continuing his murder plan after the flight delay created a number of risks. There is no doubt he was in a hurry to begin his new life, but not in so chaotic a manner, unless he was forced to do so, by the earlier murders of his daughters!

I agree with the description of CW on the DR Phil show. I have come to believe that, from his mother to Shanann; he had always had to pursue and/or work for his relationships. Not with NK! NK was the first woman who pursued CW and it was so new and intoxicating for him, that it created an urgency in him that couldn't be denied and it propelled him to do the unimaginable!


BBM MOO

Makes sense . But when would they have found out about the plane delay?

 

[Thepoet]

Makes sense . But when would they have found out about the plane delay?

Shannan called him about the delay.

 

[Thepoet]

pretty good break down poet I agree with everything u say with the exception he was always disposing of them at the oil tanks.
he arranged the day before to be there alone, which was out of character to do so.

he could have gotten rid of the lexus while waiting for shanann to come home.

I don't think he thought that far ahead.
the reason to off a spouse is usually about not wanting to share finances.
everything including the car that was shananns work perk was his. (in his head)

we'll always wonder if he had the chance to get home after work, nobody had raised the alarm what staging he would have done.

I don't think the car would or could have been apart of it at that late stage.

moo

With Shanann gone, he couldn't have afforded the Lexus, even if he thought it was his.. And I believe he wanted an Audi.

He wouldn't get rid of the Lexus before Shanann arrived home, if he was going to use it for his story that she left him. The bodies and all evidence would disappear with the Lexus.

The whole oil site scene is chaotic at best and feels spur of the moment. He seemed not to be aware of the size of the openings. He didn't have a place for SW and drug a shallow grave. He lost the sheet and a bag.

CW also seemed to know about the neighbor's video which would have supported his story if it showed the Lexus leaving earlier. Instead he loads his truck with the video recording. Again, that smacks of plans being disrupted.

I thought that he called his co-worker Sunday night, about being at the site, after the flight delay. I'll have to check.

 

[human]

Shannan called him about the delay.

Of course.But at what time?

 

[riolove77]

She was keeping him posted. Between 8 and 11 pm.

 

[Thepoet]

She was keeping him posted. Between 8 and 11 pm.

Thank you.