GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

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Tigerlily75 said:
If you’re interested in something weird, check out 12minutes31seconds in this video, where there’s a distinct child’s laugh in the closet that freaks out the investigator and dog handler. Now I’m not saying it is paranormal, but I am saying it’s creepy! The investigator searched for a toy that could be the culprit, but couldn’t find anything. Status: unresolved..

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NUA has her little girl with her , she is holding her at the beginning, and I think she is the one who made the sound rather than it being anything paranormal.
 
mickey2942 said:
Wow. I am telling you, I wouldn't live in that house if it was free. I believe that places have positive and negative energy. I have felt it.
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I think it was a toy. There was a bag on the right bottom of the closet. Someone on FB said what toy it is but I can't remember. the dog probably stepped on it. They also said there is a small child walking down the steps in the first few seconds of this video. I don't agree

Keep in mind that people are making big money off these Watts videos. Everytime they get clicked they get paid.
 
WildWest said:
@human and @Thepoet , I feel the need to follow up on how I interpret the terrain where the Watt's lived that I posted earlier. I spent 20 years going back and forth between Boulder and Brighton frequently. Then the next 20 years making similar trips a couple times a week.

I was listening to the morning news show "Today" and an anchor was talking about "getting separated from her 9 year old son on the train on the way home". That is totally foreign to me. I've been on a train a DIA while flying and that is the extent of my train travel.

I realized that this morning, what I knew for so long as miles of fields now having neighborhoods every few miles that I now percieve is heavily populated, but that anchor on the Today show that doesn't know different than New York would think the opposite. I don't know where either of you are from but wanted to post this because our perspectives may be so differnt while looking at the same map/terrain.
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Thank you. I live close to Houston, TX which is growing rapidly. There are very urban areas here with pockets of nature and bodies of water which could probably ba approached unseen.

If CW had a plan using the car I believe it would have taken place around midnight. Dark and minimal people, if any, about. Looking at maps, it appears there's lots of undeveloped area off of Hyway 52. I see no sub-division streets.
 
The only reason I don't agree with this plan of taking their bodies out in the Lexus and abandoning the car is that he organised his work location very specifically for that Monday morning, and ensured he would be alone. I think he planned to use the oil tanks from the Friday when he heard about the problem there, and he was going to use the lighter that was found in the car. He may have changed his mind on setting the fire in case he got injured himself.
 
Tortoise said:
The only reason I don't agree with this plan of taking their bodies out in the Lexus and abandoning the car is that he organised his work location very specifically for that Monday morning, and ensured he would be alone. I think he planned to use the oil tanks from the Friday when he heard about the problem there, and he was going to use the lighter that was found in the car. He may have changed his mind on setting the fire in case he got injured himself.
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The decision to use Certi was likely made late Sunday when he called the co-worker. If it was pre-planned why was he unprepared for the small openings and why no plan for SW? A shallow grave is desperation, not a plan. A lighter and gasoline also more likely point to desperation! It seems to me, that he didn't know about the size of the openings until he arrived at the site!

And he did know about the neighbor's video, and yet risked it! Why?
 
Thepoet said:
The decision to use Certi was likely made late Sunday when he called the co-worker. If it was pre-planned why was he unprepared for the small openings and why no plan for SW? A shallow grave is desperation, not a plan. A lighter and gasoline also more likely point to desperation! It seems to me, that he didn't know about the size of the openings until he arrived at the site!

And he did know about the neighbor's video, and yet risked it! Why?
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About the neighbour's video, I think it was said near the beginning that he had changed the angle to point more towards the Watts' driveway a few days before the murders. So I don't think CW was aware he would be captured on the camera, and this seems to be backed up by his hands on head posture while watching the footage.

I think he was planning to move Shanann's body, at a later date.
 
Tortoise said:
About the neighbour's video, I think it was said near the beginning that he had changed the angle to point more towards the Watts' driveway a few days before the murders. So I don't think CW was aware he would be captured on the camera, and this seems to be backed up by his hands on head posture while watching the footage.

I think he was planning to move Shanann's body, at a later date.
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I've read speculation that he may have faked the robbery from his truck so he could view what the neighbor's camera saw. Then the neighbor changed the angle which screwed CW.
 
Tortoise said:
I think he was planning to move Shanann's body, at a later date.
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I pointed this out earlier: in the CBI interviews CW did not answer when the male agent asked him why he didn't put Shan'ann in the tanks. CW simply did not answer. Later when Tammy suggested that she wouldn't fit, he mumbled something, but not at first. I think he planned to dig her up, dismember her, shove her into one of the tanks and much later, possibly set the tanks on fire. With the complexity and danger in putting out a fire in a chemical-laden environment, no one would have thought of looking for bones. I wonder if he ever googled "how long does it take for a human body to dissolve in a 20' high tank of crude oil and water."
 
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Thepoet said:
The decision to use Certi was likely made late Sunday when he called the co-worker. If it was pre-planned why was he unprepared for the small openings and why no plan for SW? A shallow grave is desperation, not a plan. A lighter and gasoline also more likely point to desperation! It seems to me, that he didn't know about the size of the openings until he arrived at the site!

And he did know about the neighbor's video, and yet risked it! Why?
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I believe CW had a plan, but I doubt he'll ever share it with anyone.

It doesn't make sense that he would hide the bodies of Bella and CeCe in the tanks, but then bury Shanann in a shallow grave that even the drone could detect. Perhaps her burial was done in desperation because she wouldn't fit in the tank. Perhaps the neighbor did turn the angle of his camera to capture CW's driveway and CW wasn't aware he did that. Perhaps CW had a plan for Shanann's car, cell phone, etc. that would have made LE believe that she'd just taken off, but NUA got in the way and the neighbor's security cam sealed the deal for him.

IDK! None of this makes any sense. The only thing that makes sense to me is that CW has a disordered mind and normal people can't understand him, nor can normal people fathom any of what he did.

I'm of the (unprofessional) opinion that his actions were driven by extreme narcissism and psychopathy. I don't think he just woke up one day and became this way, but it was something he had been able to disguise, under a nice guy facade, probably for much of his adult life. I'm sure an expert will be writing a book about this case and will attempt to explain what drove CW, and I won't be surprised if this is the conclusion they reach as well, because it is the only thing that makes any sense to me. I believe his ma and pa will also be in the book as contributing factors to "what's wrong with CW". I await this with anticipation and my guess is the Watts' family will make the Peterson clan look almost normal.

All JMO.
 
Tortoise said:
About the neighbour's video, I think it was said near the beginning that he had changed the angle to point more towards the Watts' driveway a few days before the murders. So I don't think CW was aware he would be captured on the camera, and this seems to be backed up by his hands on head posture while watching the footage.

I think he was planning to move Shanann's body, at a later date.
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IIRC CW had talked to the neighbor about the video at a much earlier date, about CW's truck being broken into. So, regardless of angle, he knew about video. And yes, his hands on head was very .telling. If he was planning on moving Shanann's body later, that tells me he went to the worksite on the fly, not knowing exactly what he would do until he got there!

Everything CW did Sunday night, starting with the call to his co-worker, makes me believe that the flight delay changed his plans! He lost three hours and it's likely he didn't know how long the delay would be until SW called him and told him the flight was finally boarding. Even then, nothing was sure until her flight landed in DIA! I imagine he was on pins and needles!

What kept him from delaying until a better day?
 
molly1255 said:
I believe CW had a plan, but I doubt he'll ever share it with anyone.

It doesn't make sense that he would hide the bodies of Bella and CeCe in the tanks, but then bury Shanann in a shallow grave that even the drone could detect. Perhaps her burial was done in desperation because she wouldn't fit in the tank. Perhaps the neighbor did turn the angle of his camera to capture CW's driveway and CW wasn't aware he did that. Perhaps CW had a plan for Shanann's car, cell phone, etc. that would have made LE believe that she'd just taken off, but NUA got in the way and the neighbor's security cam sealed the deal for him.

IDK! None of this makes any sense. The only thing that makes sense to me is that CW has a disordered mind and normal people can't understand him, nor can normal people fathom any of what he did.

I'm of the (unprofessional) opinion that his actions were driven by extreme narcissism and psychopathy. I don't think he just woke up one day and became this way, but it was something he had been able to disguise, under a nice guy facade, probably for much of his adult life. I'm sure an expert will be writing a book about this case and will attempt to explain what drove CW, and I won't be surprised if this is the conclusion they reach as well, because it is the only thing that makes any sense to me. I believe his ma and pa will also be in the book as contributing factors to "what's wrong with CW". I await this with anticipation and my guess is the Watts' family will make the Peterson clan look almost normal.

All JMO.
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Very well stated!
 
molly1255 said:
I believe CW had a plan, but I doubt he'll ever share it with anyone.

It doesn't make sense that he would hide the bodies of Bella and CeCe in the tanks, but then bury Shanann in a shallow grave that even the drone could detect. Perhaps her burial was done in desperation because she wouldn't fit in the tank. Perhaps the neighbor did turn the angle of his camera to capture CW's driveway and CW wasn't aware he did that. Perhaps CW had a plan for Shanann's car, cell phone, etc. that would have made LE believe that she'd just taken off, but NUA got in the way and the neighbor's security cam sealed the deal for him.

IDK! None of this makes any sense. The only thing that makes sense to me is that CW has a disordered mind and normal people can't understand him, nor can normal people fathom any of what he did.

I'm of the (unprofessional) opinion that his actions were driven by extreme narcissism and psychopathy. I don't think he just woke up one day and became this way, but it was something he had been able to disguise, under a nice guy facade, probably for much of his adult life. I'm sure an expert will be writing a book about this case and will attempt to explain what drove CW, and I won't be surprised if this is the conclusion they reach as well, because it is the only thing that makes any sense to me. I believe his ma and pa will also be in the book as contributing factors to "what's wrong with CW". I await this with anticipation and my guess is the Watts' family will make the Peterson clan look almost normal.

All JMO.
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I just re-listened to CW's CBI interviews, and those of his co-workers. If I have this correctly, he got to Cervi 319 at 6:45, and the other co-workers like McCoy, Melissa, and another one got there at 7:30. He knew they were on the way. He claims in the CBI interviews that he took about 20-30 minutes to dig her grave. I think he just ran out of time due to the airline delay. (ETA he also had to take time to dig around the leaking valve, which is why he supposedly was there in the first place.) And that there was some plan like ThePoet is outlining to get rid of the Lexus. Why did he park the Lexus outside, on the street, so many days/nights, per the neighbor?

I agree with you that it doesn't make any difference, and that he will never tell. Even if he did tell, like the DA said, who would know if it was a lie or not.

There will be books a plenty. I just think that it's mostly impossible to diagnose these A holes who do it just once after a lifetime of being a non-offensive nebbish.

One other thing I wanted to mention is that NK claims to have participated in zero social sites, she mentions a few, including Facebook and "IG" which is how she put it = "IG". IMO a person who does not use instagram would never call it IG. Along with her other BS like "I hardly knew him", she frequently spilled the beans on herself because of her motor mouth.
 
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NuttMegg said:
I just re-listened to CW's CBI interviews, and those of his co-workers. If I have this correctly, he got to Cervi 319 at 6:45, and the other co-workers like McCoy, Melissa, and another one got there at 7:30. He knew they were on the way. He claims in the CBI interviews that he took about 20-30 minutes to dig her grave. I think he just ran out of time due to the airline delay. And that there was some plan like ThePoet is outlining to get rid of the Lexus. Why did he park the Lexus outside, on the street, so many days/nights, per the neighbor?

I agree with you that it doesn't make any difference, and that he will never tell. Even if he did tell, like the DA said, who would know if it was a lie or not.

There will be books a plenty. I just think that it's mostly impossible to diagnose these A holes who do it just once after a lifetime of being a non-offensive nebbish.

One other thing I wanted to mention is that NK claims to have participated in zero sites, she mentions a few, including Facebook and "IG" which she says she specifically did not use. IMO a person who does not use instagram would never call it IG. Along with her other BS like "I hardly knew him", she frequently spilled the beans on herself because of her motor mouth.
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Well said.
 
That's a really good question - why did CW park Shanann's Lexus outside when she was in NC, per the neighbor? No one parks a luxury car like that on the street at night.

None of it makes any sense, and I do think he had some plan for Shanann's Lexus - he needed to have a plan in order to make his story work - that Shanann took the girls and left.

Also agree and I've never bought NK's story that she wasn't on social media. I believe she deleted her accounts. She does have a motor mouth she thought she was clever by deleting her texts, but as you said, she spilled the beans on herself in terms of just how involved she was with CW. If I was her, I'd be so ashamed, humiliated and disgusted with myself, I'd dig a hole and stick my head in it.

JMO
 
molly1255 said:
That's a really good question - why did CW park Shanann's Lexus outside when she was in NC, per the neighbor? No one parks a luxury car like that on the street at night.

None of it makes any sense, and I do think he had some plan for Shanann's Lexus - he needed to have a plan in order to make his story work - that Shanann took the girls and left.
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Hi, I found this site due to my recent interest in this case via youtube, and just joined up to throw my two cents in.

Most likely the plan also involved the garage opener which it seems like he took with him and was one of the objects he was holding when he first pulled back up to the house (after rummaging through the passenger side of his truck quickly), shook the policeman's hand, and then rushed to dump into the white SUV (passenger side) inside the garage before even going into his house. I recall among many inane details he stressed to the officer was that you can't close that garage door from outside without the device. The officers at one point noted in their records that they tested whether a person could have closed the garage door from the inside and had enough time to slip out before the door closed (thereby not needing to take the device with them). They confirmed that was indeed possible.
It becomes clear to me that his plan involved some variation of the fact that the garage door opener/closer was missing (and probably that lexus too) along with his wife. Ie, she used that device and exited the house, as she informed him she would to go to a friend's house with the kids, while his alert system was supposedly not working (It says I left the garage door open, but NUA found it closed, see officer?).
Why would he have brought back the device and planted it back in the SUV? Well because he probably realized how dumb it would look for his story of someone walking out on foot and hanging onto a garage door opener, as opposed to taking off in a car? I don't know exactly.

Maybe he was also planning to carefully curate and delete things from her phone before dumping it as well. Why do you think he turned it off and hid it in the couch cushions? Remember it was NUA's son who found it initially, and only then he grabbed it and announced to the officer we found her phone (likely overcompensating as he instinctively knew that was some evidence that would circumstantially point to his guilt - why wouldn't she have taken her phone with her to her "friend")

I seem to get the impression from people who diagnose these psychopaths from afar that they are super intelligent and careful planners, but it's clear that CW isn't very bright. And occam's razor would dictate that most or all of his blunders in terms of thinking he could get away with this and also failing to get away with this, are easily explained by that fact.
 
Excellent points BioInspector. Welcome to WS!

I never thought of that before - brilliant - he likely didn't have a garage opener in the truck because he never parked it in the garage, and not only that, Shanann didn't like him using the garage door because it would wake up the children.
 
molly1255 said:
That's a really good question - why did CW park Shanann's Lexus outside when she was in NC, per the neighbor? No one parks a luxury car like that on the street at night.

None of it makes any sense, and I do think he had some plan for Shanann's Lexus - he needed to have a plan in order to make his story work - that Shanann took the girls and left.

Also agree and I've never bought NK's story that she wasn't on social media. I believe she deleted her accounts. She does have a motor mouth she thought she was clever by deleting her texts, but as you said, she spilled the beans on herself in terms of just how involved she was with CW. If I was her, I'd be so ashamed, humiliated and disgusted with myself, I'd dig a hole and stick my head in it.

JMO
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Very good. If he didn't have a plan for/with the Lexus, how could he explain how she left?
 
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