CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #3

[ZenSearcher]

First of all, I find it difficult to understand why some people will believe that LE is always honest, hard working and trustworthy.

I've met many LE officers that were just that. I'm proud to know them and would trust them implicitly.

However, I've also met some who were too "busy" to look at real evidence when it was presented to them. LE are people, after all. Each with their own agenda, be it honorable or otherwise.

Secondly, if I were to trying to commit suicide, if I were at the end of my rope, done with the world and rotten people in it, tired of being terrorized and ready to move on, would I take a drug which is utterly unpalatable in liquid form, force myself to try to drink it down (or worse inject myself with it) and, provided I didn't vomit from it, chase it down with another drug in liquid form just to make sure (remember no pills or fragments were found in her stomach contents, iirc) I'd die? Or, would I just take a few of the pills that were already there on my medicine cabinet shelf (coated to make them easily taken) and be done with it?

It just doesn't make sense to me that M would choose to use such a complicated way to commit suicide.

So, IMO, she didn't.

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Please forgive any typos or grammar errors. I hurt my wrist and I'm typing with a clunky wrist brace on. Hurts too much to try to go back and edit.

Also, this isn't a rant. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mysterygirl]

First of all, I find it difficult to understand why some people will believe that LE is always honest, hard working and trustworthy.

I've met many LE officers that were just that. I'm proud to know them and would trust them implicitly.

However, I've also met some who were too "busy" to look at real evidence when it was presented to them. LE are people, after all. Each with their own agenda, be it honorable or otherwise.

Secondly, if I were to trying to commit suicide, if I were at the end of my rope, done with the world and rotten people in it, tired of being terrorized and ready to move on, would I take a drug which is utterly unpalatable in liquid form, force myself to try to drink it down (or worse inject myself with it) and, provided I didn't vomit from it, chase it down with another drug in liquid form just to make sure (remember no pills or fragments were found in her stomach contents, iirc) I'd die? Or, would I just take a few of the pills that were already there on my medicine cabinet shelf (coated to make them easily taken) and be done with it?

It just doesn't make sense to me that M would choose to use such a complicated way to commit suicide.

So, IMO, she didn't.

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Please forgive any typos or grammar errors. I hurt my wrist and I'm typing with a clunky wrist brace on. Hurts too much to try to go back and edit.

Thank you! My thoughts exactly.

A girl gets stalked for four months and then mysteriously dies from a date rape cocktail????

Come on...

 

[mysterygirl]

which is why I have a hard time believing that she was stalked.

I also have a hard time believing that her 'stalker' was stalking her for 4 months before he decided to kill her.

In the case of Jodi Sanderholm, the guy (Justin Thurber) had been stalking her for ten years.

I though most stalkers stalk their victims for years and not months.

please correct me if I'm wrong.

The mom says she kept emails etc.....that she exchanged with investigator.

Then after she died the felony stalking case was dropped.

So will those emails and texts show that the investigator did indeed believe there was a stalker?

 

[Confusion]

Since some want hardcore evidence, where is the evidence for suicide?

No note.......

Elavil bottles with pills still in them.

There was also a high dose of amitriptyline with no pill fragments in her stomach, which would have been there if she had taken a lethal dose of the medication she had been prescribed. There was also medication in her that neither she nor the rest of her family had ever been prescribed, and there was nothing found that would have held the drugs she did take if she had committed suicide. I really doubt she was carrying a massive dose of powder in her pocket, although it could have been in her water bottle in liquid form - but it was apparently not tested for it. No signs of depression, and within 36 hours of her death her doctor had seen her and saw no problems other than fatigue (from lack of sleep) and some stress.

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

If MI's parents were so on edge and super sensitive to what was going on outside their house then why didn't they hear an alleged person inside the house in their daughter's room. How far away was Morgan's room? Did Morgan not scream, put up any fight? Seems strange that every little noise outside of the house was heard, but not even one inside the house the night of the alleged murder.

 

[Tugela]

The Ingram's POI was arrested on a warrant for theft by receiving according to this link:

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120113/VALLEYNEWS/120119952

Possibly the reason there was no follow through is because the existence of the charge indicates police verified ownership of the alleged stolen items and they were not Morgan's. :what:

That's an awkward sentence. I hope it makes sense.

He was arrested on a warrant but not charged. Presumably that means that a complaint was made and he was arrested on that basis. If he wasn't charged then I guess they didn't find evidence to substantiate the complaint.

 

[Confusion]

If MI's parents were so on edge and super sensitive to what was going on outside their house then why didn't they hear an alleged person inside the house in their daughter's room. How far away was Morgan's room? Did Morgan not scream, put up any fight? Seems strange that every little noise outside of the house was heard, but not even one inside the house the night of the alleged murder.

Their rooms were at opposite ends of a rather large house, and there's no evidence that there was any noise. Since M always carried her water container (I don't remember if it was a bottle or something else) with her, there's always a possibility that someone had slipped the flexeril (and/or the other date rape drug mentioned, if there really was one) in with her water. If she drank it while laying there texting, it could have easily knocked her out so she didn't know what was happening.

 

[ZenSearcher]

Ok, the flipside of the question....

If you were the perp, how could you get inside the house, into M's room and perpetrate the crime w/o making her scream or struggle?

Think about it.... She's tired and frightened, the perp is there standing by her bed. Her puppy and cat are in the room with her. Her parents and the other dog are sleeping in another part of the house. What might the perp do or say to make her remain silent?


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...going back to lurking till my wrist stops hurting.

 

[Tugela]

There was also a high dose of amitriptyline with no pill fragments in her stomach, which would have been there if she had taken a lethal dose of the medication she had been prescribed. There was also medication in her that neither she nor the rest of her family had ever been prescribed, and there was nothing found that would have held the drugs she did take if she had committed suicide. I really doubt she was carrying a massive dose of powder in her pocket, although it could have been in her water bottle in liquid form - but it was apparently not tested for it. No signs of depression, and within 36 hours of her death her doctor had seen her and saw no problems other than fatigue (from lack of sleep) and some stress.

You don't know what people are thinking, or what is going on in their quite time. No one expects a suicide attempt, especially the first attempt. It is a huge shock to the family and friends. This whole stalking thing means there must have been at some issues going on. Plus, she was a young woman starting her journey as an independent adult, there would be a whole chapter of her life that her parents and probably most of the people who knew her had no idea of.

 

[Confusion]

You don't know what people are thinking, or what is going on in their quite time. No one expects a suicide attempt, especially the first attempt. It is a huge shock to the family and friends. This whole stalking thing means there must have been at some issues going on. Plus, she was a young woman starting her journey as an independent adult, there would be a whole chapter of her life that her parents and probably most of the people who knew her had no idea of.

I may not know what is going on in someone's mind, but I know about suicide. I know that there are almost always signs of it ahead of time, and someone almost always notices something is wrong (even if they don't expect the person to commit suicide.) There has been no evidence that anyone noticed anything wrong, including her friends, family and doctor. Since several people have posted about their experiences with stalkers here, it's obvious that not every victim of one commits suicide, so knowing M had problems with one does not mean she did. MOO

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

Ok, the flipside of the question....

If you were the perp, how could you get inside the house, into M's room and perpetrate the crime w/o making her scream or struggle?

Think about it.... She's tired and frightened, the perp is there standing by her bed. Her puppy and cat are in the room with her. Her parents and the other dog are sleeping in another part of the house. What might the perp do or say to make her remain silent?


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...going back to lurking till my wrist stops hurting.

It would have to be someone that she was familiar with, that she would be comfortable having in her room.

There's not a word you could say to me to make me remain silent of I woke up and found someone in my room that I was terrified of. She had able-bodied parents in the house with her that were within screaming distance.

We can go round and round hypothesizing about what happened, but there is no evidence that a crime occurred in her room.

The evidence is as follows:

Morgan Ingram's body was found in her room by her mother at 5:30 am.

It was later determined that she had drugs in her system.

Even later, it was determined that she committed suicide.

There is no evidence of a crime, unless I am missing something.


If MI's mother had found her daughter with her wrists slit and the razor blade was still in her hand would she still not agree that it looks like, and is probably, suicide?

 

[txsvicki]

I was reading the blog list of all the times someone had been seen near the home. Way too many to be coincidence, but was the POI only positively identified once or at all? Also, Morgan's puppy could have been sedated. The blog said it just sat there when ER crews were in the home. If an individual in the neighborhood did murder Morgan he must be a budding serial killer or was really trying to keep her quiet about something.

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

I was reading the blog list of all the times someone had been seen near the home. Way too many to be coincidence, but was the POI only positively identified once or at all? Also, Morgan's puppy could have been sedated. The blog said it just sat there when ER crews were in the home. If an individual in the neighborhood did murder Morgan he must be a budding serial killer or was really trying to keep her quiet about something.

Her puppy was not in the room, correct? I was under the impression that the puppy was locked away for the night.

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1243

Yes, locked up because the puppy had been chewing during the day.

Of course, that's according to the blog which CANNOT BE VERIFIED. It's very important to keep that in mind.

If the puppy were in the room, which it may have actually been, it would have raised hell about someone being in her room.

 

[gitana1]

I'm still unclear on the jewelry, since there was never any follow through, jmo. That came after the young man the family suspected was a stalker was arrested for that type of crime, so...

Guess my biggest question here, is how does mom think Morgan' death will changed to murder? I'm not seeing that as a possibility at this point.

Not worried with stalker or even plain old peeper. I'm sure everyone in the neighborhood would have been happy if that person was caught. But that did not happen. Doesn't mean if there was one, he/she got in and forced M to take medication.

Still can't figure out how murder can be found, unless of course someone that lives there wants to confess, and it is not one of the wackos that come out in cases and falsely confess to things.

Well, there have been cases where, due to the appearance of new evidence, the case was reexamined, bodies exhumed, new autopsies done, and murder charges brought years later (Drew Petersen is an example).

That's harder here with no body. However, someone could remember something or say something or have evidence (jewelry, statements, etc.,) that they could let slip or divulge.

I did a weekly search starting Oct 1, 2011, and there was no precipitation or snow level noted at all, not even into January. Problem is, when I typed in the zip code and picked Cardondale, CO, it seems to have given me the closest location they monitor, which is Sunlight Mountain.

I assumed that Sunlight Mountain would have a higher elevation than Cardondale (The summit is 9,895 feet. Carbondale is 6,181), so I found it odd that there was no snowfall recorded, especially since it's a ski resort, but when I went to the site, they were talking about snow-making.

Now I don't know what to think.

We got more snow than that in Eugene last year!

My eyes!

OK, it's really strange how they list the cities, but from what I could squint, there's much less snowfall in the area than I imagined! I pictured Denver to be all snowy, Aspen even more so, but it looks like very little! I'm surprised. I'm going to have to ask my Denver friend about that.

That is odd because I found that there was a snow storm that moved across CO on Dec 1, 2011. I don't know anything about CO weather patterns, so I don't know if that means it's safe to assume Carbondale had snow too. . .but Denver definitely did.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_19448181


It’s snowing in Denver and along the Front Range this morning, and snow is likely to continue throughout the day.
Snow accumulations should be minimal for the morning commute, but roads are wet, icy and slushy in some areas. Hills and bridges could be problematic and commuters should allow for extra time this morning.
The quick-moving winter storm, out of the north, is blowing across Colorado, bringing up to a foot of snow in some places today. Snow on the Eastern Plains will be driven by strong winds.
The National Weather Service has issued a winter storm warning for areas south and east of Denver, where the heaviest snow is expected, through the afternoon
http://photos.denverpost.com/2011/1...with-a-snow-storm-in-metro-denver/25302/#name here

I read Carbondale described by a former resident as almost high desert!?!

Carbondale is very close to Aspen: https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...gl=us&ei=JPNbUKOdIcqpigK274GoAg&ved=0CN0BELYD

Carbondale's elevation is 6,181.

Aspen's elevation is 7,660.

Carbondale is over three hours driving from Denver: https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf...gl=us&ei=JPNbUKOdIcqpigK274GoAg&ved=0CN0BELYD

Denver's elevation is 5,130.

Carbondale is nestled in the peaks, in the middle of the Rocky Mountain range. Denver is a plains town, on the other side of that range, the eastern side. These are VERY different environments.

I haven't finished reading yet, so not sure if anyone mentioned this but this story reminds me of the case of Cindy James, a nurse who claimed she was being stalked and was eventually found dead in a ditch. She was hog tied and injected with morphine. The police called it a suicide/accident and claimed she had been staging the stalking incidents herself.

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/une_cindy_james.htm

http://youtu.be/sbrAggQE2EA

If there was even a hint that Morgan had ever been bound in any way, you'd see many more people screaming from the rooftops about this case.

Do we even know if Morgan's room was processed? If there was no crime scene investigation, there is likely no evidence whether it actually ever existed or not.

That's the problem I'm having with this case. Was there no evidence found. . . or was there no evidence found (because it wasn't investigated) ???? :banghead:

The police stated they process every case of a deceased person as a homicide and then move to where the evidence takes them.

Garfield County Sheriff Lou Vallario told CBS4 his department spent a lot of time working on the case, and that it will remain closed.

“We investigate every death we come across as a homicide and then again we let the facts and the evidence to take us where it’s going to take us,” he said.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/09/07/parents-say-daughter-was-murdered-want-investigation-reopened/

There is zero to indicate that her room was not processed as a crime scene.

FrayedKnot....not quite sure what the issue is? Nobody on here is speaking anybody's name. That is against tos.

Nobody is taking moms word for anything.....have you read some of the comments on here? Actually, people have been questioning the mom and this whole story.

It's just a blog. Either you believe or not or you form your own opinion. Doesn't mean either of those will amount to much in the long run.

JMO

Just to let you know, it took me about 8 minutes to find out exactly who we were talking about, only from this thread, to find their FB's and their reported criminal activity, online. (I had not viewed the names on the blog yet, at that point). One of their names is posted in full on this site, I think the first or second thread, quoting from a MSM article, about something unrelated (thus far) to Morgan.

 

[ZenSearcher]

Her puppy was not in the room, correct? I was under the impression that the puppy was locked away for the night.

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1243

Yes, locked up because the puppy had been chewing during the day.

Of course, that's according to the blog which CANNOT BE VERIFIED. It's very important to keep that in mind.

If the puppy were in the room, which it may have actually been, it would have raised hell about someone being in her room.

On the page linked, it mentions that in the late afternoon, when they were all away from the house, the puppy was locked up.

M always slept at night with her puppy in her room.

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

On the page linked, it mentions that in the late afternoon, when they were all away from the house, the puppy was locked up.

M always slept at night with her puppy in her room.

The blog has yet to state whether the puppy was in the room that night. If the puppy was in the room I fully believe this to be a suicide.

Also, why was her mother in her room to check on her at 5:30am?

To let the puppy out, possibly?

I would never dream of going in my kid's room at 5:30 in the morning, especially not a 20 year old.

But, if there's a new puppy in there and the dog needs to be let out then I think we have our answer as to what really happened in the room.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think anyone here is claiming that all LE are honest and thorough. It's just that in this case, we don't know that they didn't do everything they should; we are only hearing from anguished parents and so far, nothing tells me that LE was negligent.

Also, why would someone kill her in this manner, i.e. "date rape" drugs, etc. if he did not intend to assault her? Isn't that the point? Poisoning someone to death is usually to get them out of the way, historically, i.e. a cheating husband kills his wife, or a wife wants insurance money. This is just too bizarre to me.

I would vote more for some sort of accidental death more than anything else, but perhaps the ME found something that pointed him specifically to suicide and we just don't know it...who knows. So far I have seen nothing to indicate murder, that is for sure.

 

[MelissaDawn]

The blog has yet to state whether the puppy was in the room that night. If the puppy was in the room I fully believe this to be a suicide.

Also, why was her mother in her room to check on her at 5:30am?

To let the puppy out, possibly?

I would never dream of going in my kid's room at 5:30 in the morning, especially not a 20 year old.

But, if there's a new puppy in there and the dog needs to be let out then I think we have our answer as to what really happened in the room.

Actually, if you go to the site of the blog the very first page states that her puppy was indeed in her room that night. To clarify, it's not in the blog itself, it's on the front page where there is a summary.

 

[Stash777]

Their rooms were at opposite ends of a rather large house, and there's no evidence that there was any noise. Since M always carried her water container (I don't remember if it was a bottle or something else) with her, there's always a possibility that someone had slipped the flexeril (and/or the other date rape drug mentioned, if there really was one) in with her water. If she drank it while laying there texting, it could have easily knocked her out so she didn't know what was happening.

Just jumping off your post (sorry). And I apologize if this has already been discussed. The ami cocktail previously posted from wiki (http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Amitriptyline_Cocktail) stated death would occur anywhere between 12-36 hours (36 for the first and 12-24 for the second). I am only remembering, definitively, ami and flexeril as being found in the toxicology report. I know there were others, but I can't remember what they were, in addition to what was not tested for. Regardless whether MI took it herself, someone slipped it, she was forced, etc., and on the assumption it was a cocktail of drugs, how long would she have been able to function? IOW, what is the earliest she could have taken this the day before/of her passing in order to get home and in bed?

Also, MI's dad talked with her that night, and MI expressed she was sick or coming down with something (coughing IIRC?). Add in pulmonary edema from the autopsy....I have no clue what to make of this as I don't have a medical background, but would coughing be a symptom of pulmonary edema? And could that have been caused by the drug cocktail (whatever it was)?

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

Actually, if you go to the site of the blog the very first page states that her puppy was indeed in her room that night. To clarify, it's not in the blog itself, it's on the front page where there is a summary.

Gotcha.

http://morganingram.com

On December 1, 2011 Morgan came home early, tired and then seemingly safe - tucked into her bed, inside her family home, her parents just down the hall and her puppy by her side. Morgan drifted off to sleep.

With that fact, it's hard to believe someone entered her room at all and the puppy wasn't going nuts.