CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[Sonya610]

Wow. Listened to (most of) the radio show. Okay then, I do not think a stalker murdered her, IMO.

 

[Tracey4AU]

I am of the opinion that Morgan's parents did not start this blog for the benefit of the general public to sleuth it, but to shine a light on stalking, first and foremost. I doubt it is of any concern to them whether they are disseminating the information in a manner or on a timeline that pleases us. That being said, I understand the curiosity and impatience from those of us who want to figure it all out. I'm just blown away by how some apparently feel they are entitled to ALL the answers NOW just because they want them. Not intending to step on toes, and stepping down from my soapbox now.
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[Confusion]

Pointing out inconsistencies isn't bad-mouthing, it's trying to figure out what really did happen. I don't think anyone has straight up called the family liars, but the inconsistencies are there and aren't made up. That can't be ignored. If mom is so upset that she's getting confused on timing or facts, then that's another reason why we can't go off her blog as the last line.

I agree; it's very frustrating.

I'm not talking about anyone in particular right now (not accusing you of anything I say here), but I have seen some people pretty much accuse TI of lying about almost everything she's said. That's what I consider to be bad-mouthing. Maybe most don't see it that way, but honesty is so important to me that I consider being accused of lying to be one of the biggest insults people can say [about me]. There have also been some inconsistencies, which I can't come up with right now, that she never stated. She had posted something, someone else had made a comment about it, and suddenly everybody is using the replying comment as TI's statement, and some then accused her of changing her story when she repeated what she had said in the first place. I may be able to look up some of the statements I'm talking about eventually, but right now I feel like death warmed over myself and I'm not going to waste the little energy I have on it. Maybe tonight or tomorrow.

 

[MayraMM]

From the last thread: Originally Posted by 21merc7
Trying to go through my brain and figure out why this case leaves me with such uncomfortable feelings. Not through it all yet.

I am wondering about M's death.

The family did not immediately suspect murder, (and as told not until someone suggested it), even though the words are telling us they felt terrorized by someone that knocked on the windows, etc...

This has really been bothering me, too, and I think I mentioned it before, but if they didn't suspect foul play in their daughter's death originally (as stated by mom), despite all the stalking, then what did they suspect? In other words, was there reason for them to NOT suspect foul play, as in a suicide note, something said by M the night before, a medical history we aren't aware of, or something else that made them not suspect murder in the first place?

Was there a suicide note, but later, on the suggestion that it might have been murder, the family clung to that, hoping maybe she had been forced t write the note, or something along those lines?

I can't think of any other reason why they would not immediately suspect their supposedly healthy, stalked, 20-year-old daughter was murdered.

There is something HUGE missing from this part of the story, and whatever that is just might give us all answers.

 

[MayraMM]

Well when people say.....I don't even think there was a stalker, it's not exactly calling the family truth tellers.

It's not calling them liars, either.

 

[21merc7]

Pointing out inconsistencies or changing stories is merely apart of trying to get to the truth, not a story.

It is not calling them liars, it is asking them to clarify or even provide documentation where necessary.

I do not think the blog is intended to make others aware of stalking, I think that is a guise to be able accuse innocents from a grieving mind. Sorry, but that is what I think. I'm happy to stand alone in that.

 

[mysterygirl]

It's not calling them liars, either.

It implies that they are grief stricken and these things are in their imagination.

Or they are lying, or exaggerating or take your pick..............

None of us have the right to claim this is about only about grief.

Who's to say it isn't about justice?

 

[hambirg]

Was the blog ever intended to be viewed by any but the locals? I'm not certain what the intention was. I know it will not get attention from FBI or any other source that was mentioned, simply b/c that is not the way they operate and the issues we have discussed here.

I'm thinking it was meant as a part of grieving therapy, to get out all the denial, bargaining, anger, and any other emotions until you finally reach acceptance.

Now it is getting some attention from outside, and things have to be worked around that. It was not planned for?

IMHO the intention was to bring attention to the fact that the parents have questions regarding the way Morgan's case went. I think they are trying to show that there are some valid questions here that need to be re-examined by outside sources.

In a way, I understand why they are not releasing all the details and evidence. I don't think I would either. While we would like to see those things, it's probably wise to keep some things out of the public realm until if and when there ever is an outside investigation.

So in my opinion, it's just a matter of gaining public interest enough to hopefully put some pressure on anybody that is in a position of authority to re-examine Morgan's case and get some answers to the questions that have arisen.

MOO

ETA- one of the things that has been bothering me here is that I see a lot of posts that are perpetuating assumptions that are untrue. I have seen quite a few posts, not singling out anyone in particular, that has said the police have said there was no signs of stalking. That's simply not true. What they said is that they looked at several suspects and didn't have enough evidence to make any arrests. There's a big difference in those two statements.

 

[mysterygirl]

Wow. Listened to (most of) the radio show. Okay then, I do not think a stalker murdered her, IMO.

Do you think a stalker is going unpunished?

Do you think he will stop?

Do you think a stalker is partially responsible for this girl dying even if an indirect cause?

 

[twinkiesmom]

We're all (obviously) victim's advocates.

We all want justice for Morgan if she was murdered.

I think we're all sad that Morgan's parents have suffered so much.

We probably all want an investigation into whether there is corruption with the 'men in hats'.

We all have the same goal and we're just travelling different paths to get there.

I couldn't disagree more. <modsnip>

 

[Tracey4AU]

Pointing out inconsistencies or changing stories is merely apart of trying to get to the truth, not a story.

It is not calling them liars, it is asking them to clarify or even provide documentation where necessary.

I do not think the blog is intended to make others aware of stalking, I think that is a guise to be able accuse innocents from a grieving mind. Sorry, but that is what I think. I'm happy to stand alone in that.

I dare say you're not alone in your thinking, which is why I felt the need to state my own stand.

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[MayraMM]

It implies that they are grief stricken and these things are in their imagination.

Or they are lying, or exaggerating or take your pick..............

None of us have the right to claim this is about only about grief.

Who's to say it isn't about justice?

And how is there going to be justice without the truth? Questioning inconsistencies is a logical way of trying to derive the truth. Working off emotion doesn't do that. If mom truly wants to find out what happened, then the family is going to have to deal with some tough questions. The questions might be offensive to some, but protecting everyone's feelings is not the reason we're gathered here. A young woman is dead and probably shouldn't be. I'd like to know why. I'd like to help find out why if I can. That's why I joined this board. If I wanted to just offer comfort to the family, then I would have joined a grief support group.

Obviously we don't all agree. I'm fine with that. I hope you can be, too.

 

[Confusion]

From the last thread: Originally Posted by 21merc7
Trying to go through my brain and figure out why this case leaves me with such uncomfortable feelings. Not through it all yet.

I am wondering about M's death.

The family did not immediately suspect murder, (and as told not until someone suggested it), even though the words are telling us they felt terrorized by someone that knocked on the windows, etc...[/I]

This has really been bothering me, too, and I think I mentioned it before, but if they didn't suspect foul play in their daughter's death originally (as stated by mom), despite all the stalking, then what did they suspect? In other words, was there reason for them to NOT suspect foul play, as in a suicide note, something said by M the night before, a medical history we aren't aware of, or something else that made them not suspect murder in the first place?

What she has said in the blog and comments about it so far (trying to paraphrase as required):
1. When she first found M dead, she felt it was murder.
2, When the coroner stated she died of natural causes, stating pulmonary edema, etc., she accepted it until she saw the tox results. Because of this M's body was cremated a few days after her death.(Before they received the tox screen she wasn't told they were waiting for.)
3. Once she saw the level of amitriptyline in her blood, she confronted him about calling it natural with such elevated drug levels.
4. When she confronted him, he said that if it weren't for there being no pill fragments in her stomach, he'd have ruled it a suicide.
5. When she contacted Dr. Dobersen for a second opinion, and told the Sheriff's department and Coroner about it, a sample of the gastric contents were sent to the lab for analysis.
6. When the results came back, the COD was changed from Natural Causes to Suicide with no further investigation.
7. She has NEVER believed that M committed suicide, and explained to the ME/Coroner/Sheriff why, but there was still no investigation.
8. When Dr. Dobersen sent her his results, he agreed that M was not a likely candidate for suicide and there was no evidence of suicide in the autopsy report.

I really don't see any of these statemnts to be conflicting with any of the others. I'm totally missing the inconsistency about this.

 

[MayraMM]

What she has said in the blog and comments about it so far (trying to paraphrase as required):
1. When she first found M dead, she felt it was murder.

That's what she said later. Before that she said they did not suspect murder until a friend suggested it some time later. I will look for the link.

 

[21merc7]

That's what she said later. Before that she said they did not suspect murder until a friend suggested it some time later. I will look for the link.

I think it was when a family member or friend pointed out the fingernails. I can't remember. It may be in the radio show.

 

[polly1]

Pointing out inconsistencies or changing stories is merely apart of trying to get to the truth, not a story.

It is not calling them liars, it is asking them to clarify or even provide documentation where necessary.

I do not think the blog is intended to make others aware of stalking, I think that is a guise to be able accuse innocents from a grieving mind. Sorry, but that is what I think. I'm happy to stand alone in that.

I think the blog is manifold in its intent: 1) to get justice for Morgan and IMO the mom blames the stalker for M's death 2) to alert people about stalkers 3) to get enough attention so a murder case can be opened.

Also, IMO, I believe the mom may've questioned suicide, but that being too painful and having anger at the stalker still out there, I think the mom did what she thought she had to do: Get him. Again, IMO, the blog may be informative, but also may lead to some lawsuits since the "ALLEGED" stalker's name is out there many times. I'm concerned Ms. Ingram may be in way over her head and I hope she turns her blog into an EVIDENCE-BASED blog in order to help others.
That being said, I hope the blog is therapeutic for the Ingrams. It's a heartbreaking story.

Lastly, yes, there is no crime established. So perhaps all of this is under the wrong category.
:what:

 

[hambirg]

I think the blog is manifold in its intent: 1) to get justice for Morgan and IMO the mom blames the stalker for M's death 2) to alert people about stalkers 3) to get enough attention so a murder case can be opened.

Also, IMO, I believe the mom may've questioned suicide, but that being too painful and having anger at the stalker still out there, I think the mom did what she thought she had to do: Get him. Again, IMO, the blog may be informative, but also may lead to some lawsuits since the "ALLEGED" stalker's name is out there many times. I'm concerned Ms. Ingram may be in way over her head and I hope she turns her blog into an EVIDENCE-BASED blog in order to help others.
That being said, I hope the blog is therapeutic for the Ingrams. It's a heartbreaking story.

Lastly, yes, there is no crime established. So perhaps all of this is under the wrong category.
:what:

This is another one of those things that keeps getting thrown around, that is not true IMHO

Even if we assume Morgan committed suicide, it is likely the crime of manslaughter was committed. She had to have acquired those mix of drugs somehow.

 

[mysterygirl]

And how is there going to be justice without the truth? Questioning inconsistencies is a logical way of trying to derive the truth. Working off emotion doesn't do that. If mom truly wants to find out what happened, then the family is going to have to deal with some tough questions. The questions might be offensive to some, but protecting everyone's feelings is not the reason we're gathered here. A young woman is dead and probably shouldn't be. I'd like to know why. I'd like to help find out why if I can. That's why I joined this board. If I wanted to just offer comfort to the family, then I would have joined a grief support group.

Obviously we don't all agree. I'm fine with that. I hope you can be, too.

Oh I think the mom is dealing with tough questions...........which is why she blogged the hell yeah there was a stalker!

I'm fine with questioning inconsistencies.

<modsnip>.

I'd like to know why she died too. I'd also like my support to be of some comfort to the family also.

 

[Cazzie]

This is another one of those things that keeps getting thrown around, that is not true IMHO

Even if we assume Morgan committed suicide, it is likely the crime of manslaughter was committed. She had to have acquired those mix of drugs somehow.

Isn't that also the case for providing someone drug(s) (whether prescription or street) if it results in their death? Think John Belushi. I'm not saying that Morgan deliberately took unprescribed drugs, but it may be possible.

A thorough and proper investigation would have (and potentially still could) rule out or prove both of these scenarios. IMO.

 

[gitana1]

I think this thread has become less about what actually happened to Morgan and more about arguing for one perception of the case or another.

That's because we have little official info to go on.

For those who doubt murder or even stalking or for those (like me) who are just confused about what the heck happened, police reports, autopsy reports, more statements from LE, all videos and/or photographic evidence that the Ingrams may have, would help determine if the doubts are warranted or not or would help clear up confusion.

For those who are convinced Morgan was stalked to death, what information do you feel you need to sleuth exactly what happened and who was involved?

In the meantime, yes, neither the blog nor the parent's statements are verifiable facts. We all know that and repeating it doesn't help.

Neither does repeating the blog statements and comments as fact - e.g, "We know Morgan was happy and healthy before she died" (no we don't). I think it would help if the unofficial statements were repeated with a disclaimer, "Assuming Morgan indeed was happy and healthy right before she died..."

Then maybe we could stop the circular arguing.