CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[Ruby2000]

I started reading this when it was first posted and I was sitting on the edge of my chair but now you guys are so fast that I can't keep up. My thoughts may be useless but I think everyone needs to remember they have quiet days (no stalker) so that is when Morgan and the parents get comfortable to go back to some sort of nomalcy. For example, sleeping in her own room, etc.
Also, I am becoming impatient and having a hard time keeping up...I guess we want come to any conclusion until December...is this correct? Hard to help if we won't know all the details until then.

 

[MindMountaineer]

I have to admit, I don't know if I would stay in my parents room or not. I can't imagine what I would do. I may for a night, then just get over it. It wouldn't have caused them any issues though, lol.

Guess that is what is confusing me, staying in the closet then not wanting monitor on. I understand being a bit old for the monitor, but if I were scared enough to stay in their room, I might leave the monitor on.

However, we are not M, so we can't know.

I'm just speculating but I could see how part of the huge mindf*ck stalking produces is that it reignites all the old childhood fears of being home alone, being in the dark, boogeyman in the closet, monster under the bed, etc. I remember watching a horror movie at a sleepover when I was ten and being so terrified the next night that I ran up to my parents' bedroom and begged them to let me sleep there. They admonished me for letting my imagination get the better of me and though they did let me sleep with them for the night, they reminded me that "there is nothing to be afraid of--no one is going to come and get you in the middle of the night like in that horror movie."

Except that it DOES happen to some people, and that must be so psychologically confusing to be a grown woman and know that all your silly childhood fears are now REAL. That fact alone is "infantilizing." Because now you are forced to act the part of the "child" who is "unrealistically" afraid of the bogeyman. You know what I mean? The kind of stalking Morgan and her family experienced, it seems, is the kind that gets a person at their most psychologically vulnerable. People are taught to feel safe in their own homes; the very idea of "home" connotes safety and comfort. When that is taken away, well, what then? I'm not sure how I'd react if I were in that position. Would I get a gun? Would I want to live somewhere else for a while, somewhere far, far away? Would I feel so afraid that I'd sleep with my mommy even though I'm in my thirties? Or would I try defiantly to restore some normalcy to my life, by stubbornly reverting to what I've been taught to believe, that home is "safe"?

 

[laurafairlie]

I have to admit, I don't know if I would stay in my parents room or not. I can't imagine what I would do. I may for a night, then just get over it. It wouldn't have caused them any issues though, lol.

Guess that is what is confusing me, staying in the closet then not wanting monitor on. I understand being a bit old for the monitor, but if I were scared enough to stay in their room, I might leave the monitor on.

However, we are not M, so we can't know.

She stopped sleeping in the closet in September (unless she did again at some point that we haven't seen yet) and TI says they put the baby monitor in her room a few weeks before she died. It seems she had been back in her room for some time at that point so it's possible she was in a completely different frame of mind than she was when she was regularly sleeping in the closet. That's why I mentioned the possibility of desensitization.

 

[mysterygirl]

But sleeping on your parents closet floor for weeks until your back hurts isn't living a normal life. It would have been simple enough to board up the windows in her bedroom and even put another lock on the door so she would feel safe in her own room (could also black out all lights so the stalker wouldn't know when she turned them out). I would think most 20 year olds would WANT some privacy, comfort, their own bed, etc....

Since their hunting cam picked up deer one would think there could be a variety of critters that could set off those motion detector lights. Moths can also set them off.

Well we can all armchair quarterback it but we didn't live it.

What you or I would do might be quite different.

And what she did at different times reflected her emotions. She eventually moved back to her room...........

 

[Tawny]

I really hate feeling this way, but I think I have to add myself to the growing list of skeptics. I'm starting to believe that after motion sensors and videos cameras were installed that the 'stalker' ceased to exist.

I think in the beginning with tapping and banging there may have been someone (or someones) doing it, and it may have been Teen/YA shenanigans. But I feel like after a certain point when it became too 'real', they backed off or found other ways to be jerkfaces (the ones doing the harassing, I mean).

I am not going to say there was NEVER anyone tormenting the family/Morgan, but I'm beginning to believe that instances like one of the latest posts mentions where rocks hit the window and stuff, were simply the brain making something out of nothing. And all of the motion sensors going off with no video means nothing to me. To me, that's a squirrel or something triggering them, because I know how sensitive they can be (the sensors).

I will continue to read, and maybe future posts will show something that makes me change my mind, but for now, there just hasn't been anything in weeks that would point to an actual human stalker with malicious intent.

I hope that T's blog helps her find the peace she needs and if it opens up an investigation, that's awesome. I wish their family the very best <3

 

[21merc7]

I'm just speculating but I could see how part of the huge mindf*ck stalking produces is that it reignites all the old childhood fears of being home alone, being in the dark, boogeyman in the closet, monster under the bed, etc. I remember watching a horror movie at a sleepover when I was ten and being so terrified the next night that I ran up to my parents' bedroom and begged them to let me sleep there. They admonished me for letting my imagination get the better of me and though they did let me sleep with them for the night, they reminded me that "there is nothing to be afraid of--no one is going to come and get you in the middle of the night like in that horror movie."

Except that it DOES happen to some people, and that must be so psychologically confusing to be a grown woman and know that all your silly childhood fears are now REAL. That fact alone is "infantilizing." Because now you are forced to act the part of the "child" who is "unrealistically" afraid of the bogeyman. You know what I mean? The kind of stalking Morgan and her family experienced, it seems, is the kind that gets a person at their most psychologically vulnerable. People are taught to feel safe in their own homes; the very idea of "home" connotes safety and comfort. When that is taken away, well, what then? I'm not sure how I'd react if I were in that position. Would I get a gun? Would I want to live somewhere else for a while, somewhere far, far away? Would I feel so afraid that I'd sleep with my mommy even though I'm in my thirties? Or would I try defiantly to restore some normalcy to my life, by stubbornly reverting to what I've been taught to believe, that home is "safe"?

I know, I endured stalking, but more was going on than what we are reading about here. I was an adult and far from home though, so if I were young, I have no idea. My imagination when young could not be controlled by logic, so it would have magnified things, but that was me.

It is a mindf***. You do not sleep. Every noise makes you jump. Even tried tylenol p.m. but it only made me feel sick, not sleepy. Scared even in daylight. What a mess it was.

 

[21merc7]

I started reading this when it was first posted and I was sitting on the edge of my chair but now you guys are so fast that I can't keep up. My thoughts may be useless but I think everyone needs to remember they have quiet days (no stalker) so that is when Morgan and the parents get comfortable to go back to some sort of nomalcy. For example, sleeping in her own room, etc.
Also, I am becoming impatient and having a hard time keeping up...I guess we want come to any conclusion until December...is this correct? Hard to help if we won't know all the details until then.

Mom originally wanted to blog everyday until Dec 2.

 

[laurafairlie]

I know, I endured stalking, but more was going on than what we are reading about here. I was an adult and far from home though, so if I were young, I have no idea. My imagination when young could not be controlled by logic, so it would have magnified things, but that was me.

It is a mindf***. You do not sleep. Every noise makes you jump. Even tried tylenol p.m. but it only made me feel sick, not sleepy. Scared even in daylight. What a mess it was.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

 

[MindMountaineer]

I know, I endured stalking, but more was going on than what we are reading about here. I was an adult and far from home though, so if I were young, I have no idea. My imagination when young could not be controlled by logic, so it would have magnified things, but that was me.

It is a mindf***. You do not sleep. Every noise makes you jump. Even tried tylenol p.m. but it only made me feel sick, not sleepy. Scared even in daylight. What a mess it was.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that--you know far better than I do what I was talking about! I'm sure it just makes you feel crazy. I have an active imagination and jump at sounds outside my window, but I always write it off as nothing. But if I knew it WERE something...man, I'd be jumpier than a mouse. And I can just imagine what kind of toll it takes on a person when it goes on for a long time.

 

[21merc7]

I'm so sorry you had to go through that--you know far better than I do what I was talking about! I'm sure it just makes you feel crazy. I have an active imagination and jump at sounds outside my window, but I always write it off as nothing. But if I knew it WERE something...man, I'd be jumpier than a mouse. And I can just imagine what kind of toll it takes on a person when it goes on for a long time.

You had it right. It is a mess.

Guys, don't think you are undermining someone else's experience. There are several of us here that have been, and some that currently are being, stalked. However, it seems most of us have the bolder, scarier type that like to make themselves known, constantly present, and lots more activity.

What you are describing is how it feels. So no need to apologize or anything. You got it.

 

[Confusion]

I think that is just a matter of personal choice; what each of our own comfort level is. I may have opted to sleep in her room myself- but imo there is no right or wrong- just whatever you think of at that time and what helps you sleep at night.

If I were going through what she was and had to choose between the 2 choices, I'd much rather sleep in a large walk in closet with small windows toward the ceiling, and a semblence of privacy than to sleep on another bed in my parents room which had floor to ceiling windows like mine did, and that gave no privacy from either windows or parents.

In addition, although your post doesn't address the issue, I would also prefer to have 2 or more methods of notifying my parents that something was happening. If you just use a panic button for every little thing, others will eventually (or maybe even quickly) stop taking it seriously. I'd worry about having someone actually come in through the door or window and have them just write down the time and go back to sleep. They did want to document times and what happened, etc., at least partially so LE could compare the events to the work schedule, etc. of suspects, and I would think they'd all feel better knowing that they'd be immediately aware if there was a major emergency happening.

 

[Tawny]

I know, I endured stalking, but more was going on than what we are reading about here. I was an adult and far from home though, so if I were young, I have no idea. My imagination when young could not be controlled by logic, so it would have magnified things, but that was me.

It is a mindf***. You do not sleep. Every noise makes you jump. Even tried tylenol p.m. but it only made me feel sick, not sleepy. Scared even in daylight. What a mess it was.

*hugs* I understand what you went through, as I went through a stalking situation when I was in the military. I was so angry all the time because I never knew where he would show up, demanding to talk to me for "just a second", demanding to meet my family. He would grill my friends asking who I was dating, who I was having dinner with. He interfered with everything. He left roses on my car, notes in my gym bag, gifts on my doorstep. I was "lucky" in that I knew who he was and he was military as well so I could go to his command, and they could either make him stop, charge him, or even move him to another duty station.

My only fear now is in not knowing where he is today. I doubt he would try to find me after all these years but with stalkers, you never know how serious their obsession will become. I do wish I knew where he was and in this day of Facebook and the internet, it sometimes bothers me that I don't know.

I can't imagine the terror of not knowing who the stalker could be, though. *shudder*

ETA: My main point to all that rambling is that it IS such a mindf*** that the incidents described in the beginning could very well have caused the family to continuing seeing something where there may have been nothing, and that's infuriating in itself for them! I wish I could hug all of them.

 

[NancyA]

Well we can all armchair quarterback it but we didn't live it.

What you or I would do might be quite different.

And what she did at different times reflected her emotions. She eventually moved back to her room...........

Going right back to thread 1, it has been emphasised that an important aspect of this case and these threads is raising awareness of stalking so it's a bit counterproductive to dismiss as 'armchair quarterbacking' people's thoughts and theories as to what they might or might not do, whether based on their own experiences (and some here have indeed lived through stalkings) or not.

 

[21merc7]

I really hate feeling this way, but I think I have to add myself to the growing list of skeptics. I'm starting to believe that after motion sensors and videos cameras were installed that the 'stalker' ceased to exist.

I think in the beginning with tapping and banging there may have been someone (or someones) doing it, and it may have been Teen/YA shenanigans. But I feel like after a certain point when it became too 'real', they backed off or found other ways to be jerkfaces (the ones doing the harassing, I mean).

I am not going to say there was NEVER anyone tormenting the family/Morgan, but I'm beginning to believe that instances like one of the latest posts mentions where rocks hit the window and stuff, were simply the brain making something out of nothing. And all of the motion sensors going off with no video means nothing to me. To me, that's a squirrel or something triggering them, because I know how sensitive they can be (the sensors).

I will continue to read, and maybe future posts will show something that makes me change my mind, but for now, there just hasn't been anything in weeks that would point to an actual human stalker with malicious intent.

I hope that T's blog helps her find the peace she needs and if it opens up an investigation, that's awesome. I wish their family the very best <3

I'm not certain if there was a stalker or not either. Since there was some peeping tom activity in the area, that seems possible, and fits the m.o.

I agree about nothing picking up on anything though. Something should have been picked up with the 6 cameras. I think they said they have some video with someone around on that last night. We haven't seen it yet though. That is a long time not to get anything, Sept to Dec. The 50 police visits and finding nothing is disturbing too.

I'm still waiting to hear what else they may have before I make any final judgment on it though.


Have to share this. My ex-hubby came over last week, we are still friends, he is angry at the world, but it is about his job. He told me he is all wound up and has been walking through the neighborhood when he can't sleep. (Ok, not so bright, but I understand.) Said he has thought about throwing rocks at my window simply b/c he is angry. Lol. He knows nothing about this case, but knows about the past stalker, so I told him he better not, it would scare me. I thought it was kind of funny, and wondered if among the many other reasons to throw rocks, this could be one of them.

 

[Snowball58]

When I first started reading the blog, I was fascinated and appreciated the format and what TI was trying to achieve. At this stage, however, it's growing a bit tiresome in that we just plain need more info. As it stands, we simply go around in circles, speculating each day, waiting for the next little nugget of info, which might render the prior days' (or weeks') speculation a total waste of time.

We need to see the first ME report. We need to see all of the pics and video she has that support the existence of a stalker. We need to know who Morgan recognized the second time she was followed in her car. We need to see police reports. We need to hear from dad, and from Morgan's friends. We want to help the family, but our hands are tied until December, when everything is put out on the blog.

I'm sorely tempted to simply set a reminder on my calendar, stop reading, and visit the blog in December, when everything is up and we can participate in a discussion with all of the info available to us (focusing my attention on different cases in the meantime). As long as info is being withheld, there's really no point spending time on it.

In the same way that the stalker toyed with the family day after day, this blog is toying with us day after day. I understand that the intention was just that - to build it up for the audience in the same way that the stalker built it up for the family. But this isn't a crime novel - if TI wants outside help to solve her daughter's case, then she should rethink her strategy.

This whole thing just feels too gimmicky - TI, we want to help your family. PLEASE give us the information that we need in order to do so. You've already received so many great tips and important questions to ponder from the folks at WS. Imagine what they can do for you if they had all of the info to work with?

ETA - I'm soooooooo missing the astros! What I wouldn't give for a chart on this case!

 

[Confusion]

<SNIP>You do not sleep. Every noise makes you jump. Even tried tylenol p.m. but it only made me feel sick, not sleepy. Scared even in daylight. What a mess it was.

It's been almost 40 years since the incidents that I wrote about here, and over 20 since my last stalking experience (personal one, I have known others who were stalked more recently.) In spite of the time, I still can't sleep at night without a strong sleeping pill, no matter how tired I am. Before I agreed to take them, I would sometimes go for days without any sleep because I didn't have time to sleep during the day. I also still tend to jump at every little noise, even when I'm the one to make it. If a fork accidentally clicks on the plate when I eat, it will often make me jump. When my birds make noise that sounds like knocking, I hear footsteps when walking in from my car at night (even if I can see the person walking and they're either friends or 1/2 block away or something), someone drops something that makes a loud noise, whatever, it is often enough to set off a full panic attack.

It really bothers me here too when I read someone saying that it's ridiculus for her/them to respond like they do to something the poster wouldn't be bothered by in the least, or that they would have done so much more if something or another happened so they don't believe it really did.. To borrow an analogy from my, 13 year-old at the time, son when I got on him about not wanting to go to school because of his social phobia:

When he got to school, he'd pull the hood of his sweatshirt (I guess they're called hoodies now) as far forward as he could to cover his eyes and most of his face, lean forward toward his desk, almost curl up in a ball, and not move until it was time to go home. He had catatonic panic attacks and selective mutism (so anxious he couldn't speak). Anyway, what he said was: "Mom, you're afraid of heights, so what wouuld you do if you had to spend 6 hours a day on top of a watertower?"

We hadn't been talking about school before this, so at first I said I wouldn't do it. He then asked me what I'd do if I was forced to, either go willingly or be carried up there. Without really thinking about my response, I said, "I'd probably go, but just sit holding the railing with my eyes closed until I could leave." He just looked at me and said, "I could sit up there all day and it wouldn't bother me at all, but that's exactly what I do when I go to school."

It finally made sense to me what he was going through 5 days of the week, and I started doing more to help him learn to cope with the anxiety, rather than just trying to convince him that his anxiety was unreasonable. We all have our own issues that we deal with, and they often don't make sense to someone who doesn't deal with them. I think that what we all need to do is look past how we'd respond to something someone else is going through and look at how they did. I don't think we can determine who did what and why if we can't get past who is over/under reacting to what and how they should have responded instead. I'd like to say it's my 2 cents, but I'm such a blabber mough, and with inflation what it is, it's more likely my $2.

 

[concernedmother]

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1317#comments
Found it interesting the last stop Morgan made on the way home and that she had gotten sick there previously. TI may possibly have the wrong person if a crime was committed.

 

[Ruby2000]

When I first started reading the blog, I was fascinated and appreciated the format and what TI was trying to achieve. At this stage, however, it's growing a bit tiresome in that we just plain need more info. As it stands, we simply go around in circles, speculating each day, waiting for the next little nugget of info, which might render the prior days' (or weeks') speculation a total waste of time.

We need to see the first ME report. We need to see all of the pics and video she has that support the existence of a stalker. We need to know who Morgan recognized the second time she was followed in her car. We need to see police reports. We need to hear from dad, and from Morgan's friends. We want to help the family, but our hands are tied until December, when everything is put out on the blog.

I'm sorely tempted to simply set a reminder on my calendar, stop reading, and visit the blog in December, when everything is up and we can participate in a discussion with all of the info available to us (focusing my attention on different cases in the meantime). As long as info is being withheld, there's really no point spending time on it.

In the same way that the stalker toyed with the family day after day, this blog is toying with us day after day. I understand that the intention was just that - to build it up for the audience in the same way that the stalker built it up for the family. But this isn't a crime novel - if TI wants outside help to solve her daughter's case, then she should rethink her strategy.

This whole thing just feels too gimmicky - TI, we want to help your family. PLEASE give us the information that we need in order to do so. You've already received so many great tips and important questions to ponder from the folks at WS. Imagine what they can do for you if they had all of the info to work with?

ETA - I'm soooooooo missing the astros! What I wouldn't give for a chart on this case!

Exactly what I was trying to say but so, so much better! I am growing weary!

 

[concernedmother]

Another thing I just thought of. If the gutter above M window was broken could there have been something loose that made a noise when the wind blew?

 

[hambirg]

You had it right. It is a mess.

Guys, don't think you are undermining someone else's experience. There are several of us here that have been, and some that currently are being, stalked. However, it seems most of us have the bolder, scarier type that like to make themselves known, constantly present, and lots more activity.

What you are describing is how it feels. So no need to apologize or anything. You got it.

Do you think Morgan's fear could have subsided a bit when she thought she knew who the stalker was? For me, I think the fear of the unknown is the worst. Your mind can really run rampant. But once that fear is identified, maybe it isn't as scary. Maybe Morgan didn't think who she thought the stalker was would really hurt her, where before thinking who she knew it was, anything is possible. Am I making any sense?

I just think if it was happening to me, if I didn't know who it was, it would be very scary. . .serial killer, Freddie Krueger, etc. But once I thought I knew who it was, I think some of that fear would be alleviated and probably turn to anger. . ."dang it! I'm not going to let you terrorize me and I'm going to catch you and make you stop. . .so bring it buddy!"