CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[concernedmother]

The lights came on and M heard a noise. Her dad goes out and is on the video. No one else was. Simply put, no one was there. So where are these noises coming from M is hearing? Anyone?

 

[Waterdogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyA
I would be very surprised if mom's attorney has not advised her of how much of a double-edged sword the blog and comments could turn out to be. Frankly, if the suspected perp is savvy enough to do half the stuff we're told he could have done he/she is surely savvy enough to preserve the blog as posted on a daily basis. I've said before any half way competent defense attorney would have no problem having large parts if not all of the blog ruled inadmissible as prejudicial or speculative and if allowed a simple "but you didn't think of/remember this until 10 months later when someone planted it in your mind on your blog?" type question would serve to cast doubt on mom's testimony. Also, should the suspected perp(s) have taken legal advice with a view to a defamation suit they could point to entries and comments in the blog itself as evidence in their favour.

Could not agree with you more if I tried! Well said.[I/]

I agree as well, and it concerns me. But, maybe they decided to weigh the pros and cons and the odds of finding/proving the truth on their own (and being content with that knowledge,) and at the same bring awareness to the dangers of stalking is greater than the odds of this going to court. It kinda makes me feel that there isn't an AHA moment in this. If they had the fail safe proof already then they wouldn't need the blog. ?

As far as some of her comment replies, I can see how the questions she is being asked are sparking a memory that she hadn't thought of as she is perusing the notes in front of her. Shoot, I can't remember what I did last week! I'm amazed she's able to recall what she has! Although, I will say, on the day she died M being at the same house as the one she claimed made her feel sick being at 2 weeks before is a Red Flag! Not something I would forget, but I'm glad she brought it up.
Did she write that in her notes for the day it happened, perhaps? We haven't gotten there, yet. Maybe she momentarily forgot that detail since she is obviously flooded with info right now.

Regarding comments being mentioned out of sequence, I do agree it's confusing! 21merc7 mentioned (and I paraphrase) how M doesn't seem terrified anymore in regards to the panic button, monitor, sleeping in her parents room. If she isn't acting terrified, but rather just cautious, is it because she has a pretty good idea who the stalker is? Remember, she drives by a car with the occupants prompting her to look them in the face out of defiance. When did this happen, again? Before or after mom suggests a panic button and monitor?
Is this type of info listed on the timeline?

Thanks.

 

[Confusion]

Another thing I just thought of. If the gutter above M window was broken could there have been something loose that made a noise when the wind blew?

I was thinking of that gutter making some of the noises too. The difference is that I was wondering if he was sitting on the roof at times rapping on the gutter instead of her window, and it just sounded like rocks/pebbles hitting the window. Maybe someone who has rain gutters (I live in an apartment now) could have someone help them out with checking. One person stand inside to listen and one be outside banging/knocking/tapping on the gutter.

 

[21merc7]

Do you think Morgan's fear could have subsided a bit when she thought she knew who the stalker was? For me, I think the fear of the unknown is the worst. Your mind can really run rampant. But once that fear is identified, maybe it isn't as scary. Maybe Morgan didn't think who she thought the stalked was would really hurt her, where before thinking who she knew it was anything is possible. Am I making any sense?

I just think if it was happening to me, if I didn't know who it was, it would be very scary. . .serial killer, Freddie Krueger, etc. But once I thought I knew who it was, I think some of that fear would be alleviated and probably turn to anger. . ."dang it! I'm not going to let you terrorize me and I'm going to catch you and make you stop. . .so bring it buddy!"

One of the many theories I have, lol, is that she knew exactly who it was and only told the parents in the beginning so they wouldn't suspect anything. Then it got blown out of proportion (not by Morgan) and became a stalker, when it was a really just a friend.

 

[Snowball58]

Another thing I just thought of. If the gutter above M window was broken could there have been something loose that made a noise when the wind blew?

The thing about the gutter is, did the Ingram's ever inspect that gutter when they first moved in, or at any time prior to the stalking? Do they know for sure that it wasn't broken by a previous resident in that house, or even by Morgan herself? (teens sneak out during the night, or sneak other kids in!)

Could that gutter have always been broken?

 

[Waterdogs]

Hambirg, I obviously didn't see your post up thread before posting mine, so yes, I agree!

 

[Waterdogs]

One of the many theories I have, lol, is that she knew exactly who it was and only told the parents in the beginning so they wouldn't suspect anything. Then it got blown out of proportion (not by Morgan) and became a stalker, when it was a really just a friend.

Doh! I can see the plausibility in this.

My apologies for post wh*ring. This board is a little different from what I'm use to.

 

[concernedmother]

He had to come into the yard and climb the tree to get on the roof.How did he manage to do this for 4 months without being detected on any of the surveillance? The more I read the more questions I have.

 

[Tawny]

The lights came on and M heard a noise. Her dad goes out and is on the video. No one else was. Simply put, no one was there. So where are these noises coming from M is hearing? Anyone?

The wind. I live in Colorado, though a completely different area. But Colorado wind can be mean. There have been PLENTY of days and nights when the wind picks up suddenly and it literally sounds like someone is walking on my roof or has just knocked on my window. I feel that a lot of the noises they heard could have been the wind. I'm not discounting how afraid they were nor am I saying they were wrong and should have known better, especially since when the wind hits my house, it sounds a lot more solid than just air.

 

[concernedmother]

The thing about the gutter is, did the Ingram's ever inspect that gutter when they first moved in, or at any time prior to the stalking? Do they know for sure that it wasn't broken by a previous resident in that house, or even by Morgan herself? (teens sneak out during the night, or sneak other kids in!)

Could that gutter have always been broken?

I believe she said they found the broken gutter after they moved out and went back. Someone can correct me if Im wrong. So no. There is no way to suspect a stalker broke that gutter.

 

[21merc7]

He had to come into the yard and climb the tree to get on the roof.How did he manage to do this for 4 months without being detected on any of the surveillance? The more I read the more questions I have.

I think, but can't be sure, that we are supposed to infer that the roof incidents stopped when the cameras were mounted. IDK. *shrug*

 

[Tawny]

He had to come into the yard and climb the tree to get on the roof.How did he manage to do this for 4 months without being detected on any of the surveillance? The more I read the more questions I have.

I'm in the same canoe. I thought the more I read, the more answers I would come across. Nope. Every blog post raises more questions with none answering previous questions.

 

[Meri]

Just an observation from the comment on the blog about the baby monitor, panic button.

M decided the baby monitor was too much (understandably) and unplugged it. She did not like the panic button, so she wants to text instead.

Do those actions seem that she was terrified?

It's so weird to me how we can all read the same thing and come away with different opinions on what was written.

I remember reading that Morgan thought the baby monitor too much and would text her mom instead, which turned out to be a good thing in terms of having times documented. Then they got the panic button, which mom thought Morgan would not like, but turned out she did like it and even used it once.

I'm not sure which of us is correct as I didn't go back and reread the entry.

ETA: thought of another one - some reading that Morgan thought she was slipped drugs at that house months ago - I thought I read 2 weeks before she died.

 

[21merc7]

I believe she said they found the broken gutter after they moved out and went back. Someone can correct me if Im wrong. So no. There is no way to suspect a stalker broke that gutter.

Yep, they didn't go up there until they moved out. Didn't notice gutter until they moved out.

 

[MindMountaineer]

The lights came on and M heard a noise. Her dad goes out and is on the video. No one else was. Simply put, no one was there. So where are these noises coming from M is hearing? Anyone?

But there WAS someone there. I for the life of me cannot recall which post mentioned this; I think it was in the post itself and not the comments; but Toni recorded one incident in September of last year when Steve ran out of the house immediately after hearing someone banging on the windows. He ran a full circle around the house, and saw no one. BUT when he and Toni reviewed the video footage later that evening, a figure had been following Steve the entire time, around the house. Which is pretty brilliant when you think about it; of course someone running after someone is not going to think of turning around to look behind them.

Does anyone else remember this incident posted on the blog? Did I remember it correctly?

 

[gitana1]

Exactly..it appears as tho the fact that there was never even so much as a finger print dusted investigating morgans death is commonly forgotten and mistaking there never being any investigation inbto her death..not a fingerprint..not even a soiingle interview of even one person, not even family were ever spoken to or investigated in the death or morgan..its never been deemed a crime and that fact is some how being mistaken for there being a brilliant perp involved..that has pulled off a seamless crime of murder..and that latter could not be further from true..

When a murder is never even deemed a crime(rather officially labeled as natural causes)allows every single piece of evidence to go unknown and unfound..her bedroom and the entire home could have prints, fibers, and dna of the perp literally all over the place..the eprp could have screwed up in major ways and even drunkenly blabbed in front of a loser friend..none of it matters and it all goes unfound and unknown due to the fact there never existed an investigation intoo morgans death..

That fact allows for the perp to have done a superb job, a mediorce job, or a lousy job..we wont ever have a clue due to the fact kurtzman made the egregious error of officially labeling morgans death as natural causes..we'll never know if he was seamless in his executing the crime or not..kurtzmans error made damn sure of that.

With much respect, i don't know how we can say that LE failed to dust for prints, etc., because the coroner deemed the death natural causes. The investigation begins when they find the body, long before the coroner issues a report.

And again, LE stated it treats all deaths as homicides until the evidence leads them elsewhere.

I'm listening to the radio show right now. Mom says that Morgan went to take the puppy out for a walk, and she opened the door, and the guy was standing right there, dressed in black. I'd like to know more about that. If he was standing right there, didn't she recognize him?

Also, and this may be a stupid question, but did anyone in the family ever look out the window when someone knocked or banged? They keep saying they ran outside and he was already gone. It seems like, especially in the early days, someone would have looked out the window to see what was going on.

Was there a fence around the yard? I noticed a picture on the blog of the "berm," and there is a fence in the picture, is that around their yard or someplace else?

Was Morgan's horse boarded at the ranch behind the house? If so, and the ranch keeps drugs similar to the ones that cause Morgan's death on hand, is it possible Morgan herself got them from the ranch?

The family states they were told by vets in the area that such drugs are kept by them. But nothing has been stated as to whether the ranch itself carried such drugs.

Somehow I think if that were the case, we would know it.

A telescopic hunter's type rod has been mentioned.

But IIRC, the parents stated they tested it and it did not sound the same as what they heard?

My Opinion, I think they felt the house inside was safe, and never thought someone would break in. I probably would of been freaked out the second time I found a broken lock on a door, but I am a I don't care if there was no crime on earth am still locking everything up girl.

Clearly they did not feel inside was safe as they installed key locks, which someone broke and tried to enter, motion detectors and cameras and a baby monitor and Morgan slept in her parent's closet for a time.

The whole point of being terrorized by stalking is the fear the stalker will break in and kill you.

 

[mysterygirl]

Going right back to thread 1, it has been emphasised that an important aspect of this case and these threads is raising awareness of stalking so it's a bit counterproductive to dismiss as 'armchair quarterbacking' people's thoughts and theories as to what they might or might not do, whether based on their own experiences (and some here have indeed lived through stalkings) or not.

No more counterproductive than criticizing a deceased twenty year olds actions.

Let's be honest.......one can tell who is sarcastically criticizing verses raising awareness.

I think that these people did the best they could and in hindsight would do things differently.

 

[JBean]

If I were going through what she was and had to choose between the 2 choices, I'd much rather sleep in a large walk in closet with small windows toward the ceiling, and a semblence of privacy than to sleep on another bed in my parents room which had floor to ceiling windows like mine did, and that gave no privacy from either windows or parents.

In addition, although your post doesn't address the issue, I would also prefer to have 2 or more methods of notifying my parents that something was happening. If you just use a panic button for every little thing, others will eventually (or maybe even quickly) stop taking it seriously. I'd worry about having someone actually come in through the door or window and have them just write down the time and go back to sleep. They did want to document times and what happened, etc., at least partially so LE could compare the events to the work schedule, etc. of suspects, and I would think they'd all feel better knowing that they'd be immediately aware if there was a major emergency happening.

what I mean is, I would have slept in her bed while she slept in the closet to see if I heard what she heard when I was in her room. KWIM?

 

[21merc7]

It's so weird to me how we can all read the same thing and come away with different opinions on what was written.

I remember reading that Morgan thought the baby monitor too much and would text her mom instead, which turned out to be a good thing in terms of having times documented. Then they got the panic button, which mom thought Morgan would not like, but turned out she did like it and even used it once.

I'm not sure which of us is correct as I didn't go back and reread the entry.

I was combining the post with the later added comment. I asked to see what others thought. That is what we are here for, to find out and muddle through.

 

[Snowball58]

The lights came on and M heard a noise. Her dad goes out and is on the video. No one else was. Simply put, no one was there. So where are these noises coming from M is hearing? Anyone?

Everything in this case can have a rational explanation as well as a nefarious one. That's why it's frustrating - if we could be shown more evidence, then we can focus on the nefarious. But in the absence of more info, frankly, my mind is turning to the rational.

Rational: overactive imagination, hallucination, wind, small animals on the roof or mice in the walls, actual peeper in the beginning who then moved on but the family's heightened sensitivity kept them going, attention seeking, etc.

Nefarious: stalker tossed objects at window from distance or tapped windows from position on roof, then ran away or hid. Stalker did enough recon to know where the camera coverage area was in order to be able to avoid detection. Perhaps stalker entered the house when no one was home, in order to observe the video coverage area and was able to identify a few choice positions.

The ONLY things keeping the possibility of a real stalker open in my mind at this stage (subject to change as more info is shared) are that single image from the game cam and the mom having heard the keypad and seen someone on the porch. And the two broken locks - maybe (again, could be the usual teen sneaking out type of scenario?) I don't recall any other times when the parents could corroborate the stalking activity - it seems to be 99% experienced only by Morgan alone, unless I'm mis-remembering (which is possible).

Why, oh why, didn't this family have a simple security alarm installed?