CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[Snowball58]

Edited - dupe post

 

[Confusion]

Elavil comes in tablet form. They dissolve rather quickly. Like sugar dissolves in your coffee. When you get to the bottom of your cup, you do not see 'sugar fragments' and yet, the sugar was definitely in your coffee.

How long does it take for them to dissolve in your stomach? I keep forgetting to ask. TIA

 

[Snowball58]

http://www.rxlist.com/elavil-drug.htm

"Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs

Antidepressants increased the risk compared to placebo of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies of major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of Amitriptyline hydrochloride tablets or any other antidepressant in a child, adolescent, or young adult must balance this risk with the clinical need. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults aged 65 and older. Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. Amitriptyline hydrochloride is not approved for use in pediatric patients. (See Warnings: Clinical Worsening and Suicide Risk, Precautions: Information for Patients, and Precautions: Pediatric Use)."

"Elavil (amitriptyline HCl) is supplied as 10 mg, 25 mg, 50 mg, 75 mg, 100 mg, and 150 mg tablets and as a sterile solution for intramuscular use."

"10 mg amitriptyline HCl tablets also contain FD&C Blue 1. 25 mg amitriptyline HCl tablets also contain D&C Yellow 10, FD&C Blue 1, and FD&C Yellow 6. 50 mg amitriptyline HCl tablets also contain D&C Yellow 10, FD&C Yellow 6 and iron oxide. 75 mg amitriptyline HCl tablets also contain FD&C Yellow 6. 100 mg amitriptyline HCl tablets also contain FD&C Blue 2 and FD&C Red 40. 150 mg amitriptyline HCl tablets also contain FD&C Blue 2 and FD&C Yellow 6."

"Elavil (amitriptyline) , 10 mg, are blue, round, film coated tablets, identified with "40" debossed on one side and "Elavil (amitriptyline) " on the other side.
Elavil (amitriptyline) , 25 mg, are yellow, round, film coated tablets, identified with "45" debossed on one side and "Elavil (amitriptyline) " on the other side.
Elavil (amitriptyline) , 50 mg, are beige, round, film coated tablets, identified with "41" debossed on one side and "Elavil (amitriptyline) " on the other side.
Elavil (amitriptyline) , 75 mg, are orange, round, film coated tablets, identified with "42" debossed on one side and "Elavil (amitriptyline) " on the other side.
Elavil (amitriptyline) , 100 mg, are mauve, round, film coated tablets, identified with "43" debossed on one side and "Elavil (amitriptyline) " on the other side.
Elavil (amitriptyline) , 150 mg, are blue, capsule shaped, film coated tablets, identified with "47" debossed on one side and "Elavil (amitriptyline) " on the other side."

 

[marycarney]

How long does it take for them to dissolve in your stomach? I keep forgetting to ask. TIA

Minutes

 

[Confusion]

http://www.rxlist.com/elavil-drug.htm

"Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs

Antidepressants increased the risk compared to placebo of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies of major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of Amitriptyline hydrochloride tablets or any other antidepressant in a child, adolescent, or young adult must balance this risk with the clinical need. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults aged 65 and older. Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. Amitriptyline hydrochloride is not approved for use in pediatric patients. (See Warnings: Clinical Worsening and Suicide Risk, Precautions: Information for Patients, and Precautions: Pediatric Use)."
<SNIP>

I had written up some similar info last night then, but nobody seemed too interested so I deleted it. Thanks for posting this today; I think it's important to know that amitriptyline can cause suidal ideations in children and young adults. I also think it's important to know that CO toxicity can cause permanent symptoms, including depression and anxiety and could cause someone to turn to antidepressants at times. MOO and My Own Spelling!

Minutes

I wonder why, then, it was made to sound so unusual to have high doses in your system with no pills or fragments in your stomach. Thanks for the response.

 

[Snowball58]

Hang on a sec. Wasn't it stated at some point that Morgan was on BC pills? If so, then why the "hemorrhagic corpus luteum" - BC pills stop you from ovulating, no? Perhaps it's irrelevant, just caught my attention. Just pondering if maybe she made a conscious decision at some point to stop taking them.

 

[raine1212]

Good Afternoon everyone!

 

[Snowball58]

I had written up some similar info last night then, but nobody seemed too interested so I deleted it. Thanks for posting this today; I think it's important to know that amitriptyline can cause suidal ideations in children and young adults. I also think it's important to know that CO toxicity can cause permanent symptoms, ncluding depression and anxiety and could cause someone to turn to antidepressants at times. MOO and My Own Spelling!



I wonder why, then, it was made to sound so unusual to have high doses in your system with no pills or fragments in your stomach. Thanks for the response.

I just can't shake the feeling that she started taking the Ami again and her parents just didn't know it, and everything that happened was connected to those pills.

Can someone please remind me - was it just the Ami (of the drugs found in her system) that she had been previously taking under a prescription? Or did she also have a prescription for any of the other meds they found?

 

[Confusion]

Hang on a sec. Wasn't it stated at some point that Morgan was on BC pills? If so, then why the "hemorrhagic corpus luteum" - BC pills stop you from ovulating, no? Perhaps it's irrelevant, just caught my attention. Just pondering if maybe she made a conscious decision at some point to stop taking them.

Good catch! I didn't notice any in her tox report either. I might have to go back and read it one more time.

 

[Tawny]

BBM

I have no idea if she was sneaking out or not (the thought occurred to me more than once), but it seems rather sad that we even think she may have felt the need to. If she was, though, why would she need to use the gutter and tree to sneak out of a ground floor room?

Why, to avoid the video surveillance, of course. She knew where they pointed, what they saw and didn't see. Just a thought. I know I'd probably have done that as a teen if I didn't want Dad to know I was dating a particular person. Dad rarely approved of my boy choices.

 

[Confusion]

I just can't shake the feeling that she started taking the Ami again and her parents just didn't know it, and everything that happened was connected to those pills.

Can someone please remind me - was it just the Ami (of the drugs found in her system) that she had been previously taking under a prescription? Or did she also have a prescription for any of the other meds they found?

I know she said that she had been taking something else, but it may have been that she stopped taking them before she went off the amitriptyline. I don't remember her ever saying what it was she was taking.

 

[Snowball58]

I know she said that she had been taking something else, but it may have been that she stopped taking them before she went off the amitriptyline. I don't remember her ever saying what it was she was taking.

My recollection was that she also had a scrip for Cyclobenzaprine (muscle relaxer), but I'm not sure if that's correct or not.

 

[Confusion]

Why, to avoid the video surveillance, of course. She knew where they pointed, what they saw and didn't see. Just a thought. I know I'd probably have done that as a teen if I didn't want Dad to know I was dating a particular person. Dad rarely approved of my boy choices.

It reportedly started before the video surveillance was installed.

BBM
My mother didn't like my choices either, and eventually I realized she was usually right about them. :blushing:

 

[concernedmother]

I wish the clever person that obtained the autopsy report could try to obtain the police report from that morning too. lol

 

[Tawny]

Also, FWIW, I now fully believe that she either intentionally committed suicide, or she was self medicating and TI just didn't know. No matter how close a teen is to her parents, they NEVER know every detail of her life, I'm sorry. The intentional suicide theory is stronger in my mind because she was fully clothed. I'm not a fan of the "if it were me" posts, but here's mine: If it were me, I'd have worn my favorite shirt and jeans, and probably brushed my hair... knowing someone was going to discover me. I'd want to look presentable. *sigh*

I'll still read, especially since I'd LOVE to see the "night of" video with a person running from the house, but until there is something more solid than a tox report and autopsy (unlikely), I believe it was suicide. My heart REALLY goes out to the family, even more than before

 

[nursebeeme]

Hang on a sec. Wasn't it stated at some point that Morgan was on BC pills? If so, then why the "hemorrhagic corpus luteum" - BC pills stop you from ovulating, no? Perhaps it's irrelevant, just caught my attention. Just pondering if maybe she made a conscious decision at some point to stop taking them.

you can still ovulate while on BC

but in some people it does stop ovulation.

 

[Confusion]

My recollection was that she also had a scrip for Cyclobenzaprine (muscle relaxer), but I'm not sure if that's correct or not.

I don't think so, TI said that M had never been prescribed Flexeril, and she didn't even know what it was. She seemed pretty adamant about it, so I'm thinking it's not something you'd find in any records anywhere.

 

[Tawny]

It reportedly started before the video surveillance was installed.

BBM
My mother didn't like my choices either, and eventually I realized she was usually right about them. :blushing:

I'm thinking the taps, bangs, and rocks were to signal Morgan to come on out to hang out, and she did so through her window... up until the surveillance was installed. Then up to the roof? This is out there as a theory, just presenting another line of thought!

 

[steff13]

Also, FWIW, I now fully believe that she either intentionally committed suicide, or she was self medicating and TI just didn't know. No matter how close a teen is to her parents, they NEVER know every detail of her life, I'm sorry. The intentional suicide theory is stronger in my mind because she was fully clothed. I'm not a fan of the "if it were me" posts, but here's mine: If it were me, I'd have worn my favorite shirt and jeans, and probably brushed my hair... knowing someone was going to discover me. I'd want to look presentable. *sigh*

I'll still read, especially since I'd LOVE to see the "night of" video with a person running from the house, but until there is something more solid than a tox report and autopsy (unlikely), I believe it was suicide. My heart REALLY goes out to the family, even more than before

I was thinking that, too. I initially thought of that urban legend about Lupe Valez, where she got herself all dressed up then took a bunch of pills to commit suicide. I can definitely see wanting to be found in a certain outfit or in a certain way.

 

[nursebeeme]

I think nurse was explaining the clinical terms, politely, for on or about that time of the month. She'll clear that up if I misunderstood. But, your body still goes through the motions when on the pill. :blushing:

yes, it can...

but not normally (the pill interferes with different trigger chemicals normally secreted by your body: FSH which is follicle stimulating hormone and LH which is Lutienizing Hormone which to explain in general are like little chemical messengers that flip on the switch for ovulation)

why: (it usually doesn't however because the progesterone and other things in birth control usually prevent ovulation by tricking your body into thinking there is already a corpus luteum present that is secreting progesterone)

what happens with the corpus luteum in general is: it is kind of like a little mass of sticky yellow cells that hang around after you ovulate. If you happen to get pregnant (this is just for informational purposes only...NOT RELATING TO THIS CASE) the corpus luteum hangs out and secretes progesterone that sustains the pregnancy during the first few months.

that being said it could also be a corpus luteal cyst which can happen while on BC

We also don't know what kind of BC she was on... so who knows. There are a myriad of types with different mechanisms of action:

but with the corpus luteal body there I would say she just ovulated.