CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #1

[Shiressleuth]

I have had a think about these delayed plea bargaining tactics seemingly being done by the prosecution. If they are still awaiting ballistic and forensic results, the delay will be of benefit. I have not seen any appeals for tips recently has anyone else? So I am thinking the delay can only benefit the murder investigation .

:cow:

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.koaa.com/story/36415229/...e-than-150-tips-related-to-mt-herman-homicide

This link dated before DN was arrested, states they received 150 tips at that time. If anyone sees requests for tips later than this that haven't already been posted, please link if you can

 

[MistyWaters]

This gearjunkie article states that police said TW was shot multiple times.

Truly, I've looked for an official source of the "shot multiple times" and my search has proven unsuccessful. If you're able to find somewhere where "police said" please direct me to it.

This is the best I could find, supported by the KKTV video post #316. "Sources close to the investigation" are sometimes reliable, sometime not, but the "multiple" is not a Sheriff's Office official spokesperson, which in their official release state that TM was " shot".

"The El Paso County Sheriff’s Office has released few details. But it did confirm Watkins was shot and that it was investigating the death as a homicide. Sources close to the investigation told KKTV 11 News Watkins was “shot multiple times.”
https://gearjunkie.com/tim-watkins-mountain-biker-shot-colorado

Sheriff Office press releases here:
"Any information deemed official will be coming from the Sheriff's Office Public Information Officer."
https://www.epcsheriffsoffice.com/search/node/Timothy Watkins

 

[MistyWaters]

http://www.koaa.com/story/36415229/...e-than-150-tips-related-to-mt-herman-homicide

This link dated before DN was arrested, states they received 150 tips at that time. If anyone sees requests for tips later than this that haven't already been posted, please link if you can

I've not. Which is why I don't understand if there's that any evidence DN is the culprit, why charges haven't been laid by now. Instead, time and energy is wasted on plea dealing to reduce outstanding charges. JMO the investigation into TW's death is following a different avenue.

I notice these two homeless men in the link below were arrested Dec 15th for a murder of a man that occured on Dec 4th. One of them has outstanding charges very similar to DN. Note at the bottom of the report "anyone with information is asked to call.....". If LE were confident DN was responsible for the murder of TW, or anyone else for that matter, by now they'd have proceeded accordingly IMO.

http://gazette.com/two-men-arrested...-camp-in-early-december-death/article/1617284

 

[ocgrad]

I have had a think about these delayed plea bargaining tactics seemingly being done by the prosecution. If they are still awaiting ballistic and forensic results, the delay will be of benefit. I have not seen any appeals for tips recently has anyone else? So I am thinking the delay can only benefit the murder investigation .

:cow:

This article states the goal is 120 days turnaround for all disciplines of forensic testing.
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/...-crime-lab-will-make-analysis-more-efficient/
Colorado Springs has their own lab. I cannot find anything to note the turnaround except the examiner says she has a heavy caseload and minimal staff.
https://m.facebook.com/notes/colora...ie-watkins-during-national-/1142069892476871/
This article is from 2010 and averages all 50 states. Says firearms average is 136 days and it may be out of date but I don't think it has gotten significantly faster.
https://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0086.htm
I noticed in looking over several articles that in many cases firearms is the slowest. But I am sure that can't be said for all jurisdictions. Probably is very subjective to the caseload at the time. Also if they have a suspect it is actually slower, meaning they don't have to give it the same priority as they do when they are desperate to get someone off the street.
It leads me to think that once they have their guy locked up they may take well over 90 days to perform ballistics testing. And this back and forth to consider plea negotiations is just a dance to kill time until the ballistics testing can be completed. JMO.

 

[Ember123]

Well they haven't released any official details one way or another for over three months now.. My point was the multiple gunshot wounds wasn't released by LE either.

IMO gunshot wound(s?)and leaves covering a body are not very striking AT ALL. In fact VERY COMMON. (BTW this post is NOT directed at you in any way, MW, and I prob shouldn't have hit "reply").

My point is- I've not been able to get away from thinking it is the Hatchet that is the similarity, gunshots aside. A gun may havd been used, also. But gunshots and leaves? What is so uniqe there??? A hatchet, however, that's a very unique weapon, if used. IMO!

 

[Shiressleuth]

This article states the goal is 120 days turnaround for all disciplines of forensic testing.
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/...-crime-lab-will-make-analysis-more-efficient/
Colorado Springs has their own lab. I cannot find anything to note the turnaround except the examiner says she has a heavy caseload and minimal staff.
https://m.facebook.com/notes/colora...ie-watkins-during-national-/1142069892476871/
This article is from 2010 and averages all 50 states. Says firearms average is 136 days and it may be out of date but I don't think it has gotten significantly faster.
https://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0086.htm
I noticed in looking over several articles that in many cases firearms is the slowest. But I am sure that can't be said for all jurisdictions. Probably is very subjective to the caseload at the time. Also if they have a suspect it is actually slower, meaning they don't have to give it the same priority as they do when they are desperate to get someone off the street.
It leads me to think that once they have their guy locked up they may take well over 90 days to perform ballistics testing. And this back and forth to consider plea negotiations is just a dance to kill time until the ballistics testing can be completed. JMO.

That's the conclusion I'm coming to OC. I am familiar with that 2010 report and have noted the long turnaround times before , especially for ballistics (which could include gun and hatchet).
:cow:

 

[Shiressleuth]

I've not. Which is why I don't understand if there's that any evidence DN is the culprit, why charges haven't been laid by now. Instead, time and energy is wasted on plea dealing to reduce outstanding charges. JMO the investigation into TW's death is following a different avenue.

I notice these two homeless men in the link below were arrested Dec 15th for a murder of a man that occured on Dec 4th. One of them has outstanding charges very similar to DN. Note at the bottom of the report "anyone with information is asked to call.....". If LE were confident DN was responsible for the murder of TW, or anyone else for that matter, by now they'd have proceeded accordingly IMO.

http://gazette.com/two-men-arrested...-camp-in-early-december-death/article/1617284

I couldn't find any later request for tips on this case either or any other sources for the more than one shot except for what has been posted "police said..." or "sources said...." etc. It's not surprising considering the gag order, withheld mug, sealed arrest warrants and all the other shenanigans trying to keep it all underwraps. If you remember one MSM Co source came out with a manner of death fot the Delphi case initially then swiftly had to pull it.

I don't think they have proceeded with charges for DN because there is no need to ATM. They seem to be holding all the aces though. We just don't know if the aces are high or low in this instance.
:moo;

 

[emptybottles]

One of the top ballistic labs in the country in in Pueblo so turnarounds should not be an issue in a case like this.
http://gazette.com/southern-colorad...-to-id-arrest-serial-shooters/article/1617000
"Overall this year, the Metro Crime Lab has tested 477 firearms used in area crimes, leading to the arrest of 55 offenders, Colorado Springs Chief of Police Pete Carey said."

As far as the flat tire theory. I would ignore that line of thinking. TW was an accomplished rider and bike mechanic and his body was found not far from the road. Worst case if you run out of patches and tubes, throw grass inside the tire and ride home, or ride on a flat tire. I've done it many times myself. It's really not that big a deal. Everything was downhill from where TW's body was found, at the top of Limbaugh.

Why the delays.... I believe there are 2 causes. One is DN is playing games and stalling, two the DA, Dan Mays, is going to plea bargain and put this guy back out on our streets, so they are delaying to soften the public outrage and hoping we will forget so that we won't notice when the plea bargain actually occurs.

There is another thought and that is there could be evidence and potential charges we do not know about which would implicate DN in the TW murder. My fear is that they are going to allow him to plea down to a lesser manslaughter, or self-defense, charge which is ridiculous considering he had multiple gunshot wounds depending upon which news source you use. This will create a great deal of anger from the public.

And even still it could be they have kept murder charges and evidence under wraps since they do not want to publicize or jeopardize any potential ties to the Delphi investigation.... which in my own opinion involves more than one suspect. Maybe the plea involves identifying the second suspect in the Delphi case and DN pleading to a lesser charge in that case? I doubt it, but you never know.

I'm still leaning towards about an 80% chance DN will have his charges/bond lowered and he will be out of jail soon. I don't think they have any direct evidence linking him to TW or Delphi.

 

[Shiressleuth]

One of the top ballistic labs in the country in in Pueblo so turnarounds should not be an issue in a case like this.
http://gazette.com/southern-colorad...-to-id-arrest-serial-shooters/article/1617000
"Overall this year, the Metro Crime Lab has tested 477 firearms used in area crimes, leading to the arrest of 55 offenders, Colorado Springs Chief of Police Pete Carey said."

As far as the flat tire theory. I would ignore that line of thinking. TW was an accomplished rider and bike mechanic and his body was found not far from the road. Worst case if you run out of patches and tubes, throw grass inside the tire and ride home, or ride on a flat tire. I've done it many times myself. It's really not that big a deal. Everything was downhill from where TW's body was found, at the top of Limbaugh.

Why the delays.... I believe there are 2 causes. One is DN is playing games and stalling, two the DA, Dan Mays, is going to plea bargain and put this guy back out on our streets, so they are delaying to soften the public outrage and hoping we will forget so that we won't notice when the plea bargain actually occurs.

There is another thought and that is there could be evidence and potential charges we do not know about which would implicate DN in the TW murder. My fear is that they are going to allow him to plea down to a lesser manslaughter, or self-defense, charge which is ridiculous considering he had multiple gunshot wounds depending upon which news source you use. This will create a great deal of anger from the public.

And even still it could be they have kept murder charges and evidence under wraps since they do not want to publicize or jeopardize any potential ties to the Delphi investigation.... which in my own opinion involves more than one suspect. Maybe the plea involves identifying the second suspect in the Delphi case and DN pleading to a lesser charge in that case? I doubt it, but you never know.

I'm still leaning towards about an 80% chance DN will have his charges/bond lowered and he will be out of jail soon. I don't think they have any direct evidence linking him to TW or Delphi.

I hope you're wrong but he won't be released while he has those 4 indy holds on him - he would be extradicted even if he wasted money and bonded out. There is also some interesting info from the Indy case whereby they are awaiting phone data to check POI alibis. Could this also be relevant for this case? Waiting on phone location data?

I'll post a link to the MSM article in the Delphi thread.

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-79&p=13845229#post13845229

Sheriff Lazenby recent comments in the media on the Delphi case.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I've not. Which is why I don't understand if there's that any evidence DN is the culprit, why charges haven't been laid by now. Instead, time and energy is wasted on plea dealing to reduce outstanding charges. JMO the investigation into TW's death is following a different avenue.

I notice these two homeless men in the link below were arrested Dec 15th for a murder of a man that occured on Dec 4th. One of them has outstanding charges very similar to DN. Note at the bottom of the report "anyone with information is asked to call.....". If LE were confident DN was responsible for the murder of TW, or anyone else for that matter, by now they'd have proceeded accordingly IMO.

http://gazette.com/two-men-arrested...-camp-in-early-december-death/article/1617284

I agree those guys charges/priors are similar but the similarities end there I think. The linked Delphi case and In outstanding warrants complicate the "DN" situation IMO.

 

[kkdj]

Does anyone know what happened in court today?

 

[kizzykat]

One of the top ballistic labs in the country in in Pueblo so turnarounds should not be an issue in a case like this.
http://gazette.com/southern-colorad...-to-id-arrest-serial-shooters/article/1617000
"Overall this year, the Metro Crime Lab has tested 477 firearms used in area crimes, leading to the arrest of 55 offenders, Colorado Springs Chief of Police Pete Carey said."

As far as the flat tire theory. I would ignore that line of thinking. TW was an accomplished rider and bike mechanic and his body was found not far from the road. Worst case if you run out of patches and tubes, throw grass inside the tire and ride home, or ride on a flat tire. I've done it many times myself. It's really not that big a deal. Everything was downhill from where TW's body was found, at the top of Limbaugh.

Why the delays.... I believe there are 2 causes. One is DN is playing games and stalling, two the DA, Dan Mays, is going to plea bargain and put this guy back out on our streets, so they are delaying to soften the public outrage and hoping we will forget so that we won't notice when the plea bargain actually occurs.

There is another thought and that is there could be evidence and potential charges we do not know about which would implicate DN in the TW murder. My fear is that they are going to allow him to plea down to a lesser manslaughter, or self-defense, charge which is ridiculous considering he had multiple gunshot wounds depending upon which news source you use. This will create a great deal of anger from the public.

And even still it could be they have kept murder charges and evidence under wraps since they do not want to publicize or jeopardize any potential ties to the Delphi investigation.... which in my own opinion involves more than one suspect. Maybe the plea involves identifying the second suspect in the Delphi case and DN pleading to a lesser charge in that case? I doubt it, but you never know.

I'm still leaning towards about an 80% chance DN will have his charges/bond lowered and he will be out of jail soon. I don't think they have any direct evidence linking him to TW or Delphi.

BBM
That was a thought that popped into my head when they postponed the hearings again. Because I wondered what the heck is going on that needs so much negotiating. Then it occurred to me maybe they're talking murder charges and his attorney is trying to negotiate that down to a lesser degree or manslaughter. I don't know though, do they even begin negotiations on a separate charge before the charge has even been filed?

I've tried really hard to be objective here and think it could not be DN, but I keep envisioning him running, waving that bleeping hatchet at kids on bikes or other people, and I keep seeing that picture of him driving past the search party enough times they got suspicious.

Sometimes I wonder if he had a cash crop(s) growing up there that he was trying to guard. He acted like someone being territorial or possessive of something he didn't want others around. (I've thought of being protective of his family but he left them elsewhere while lurking around the search party so that doesn't make sense.) The Ns landed in CO about the right time to plant outdoors. Maybe he thought he could make some quick money in the Fall and his 'guarding' behavior/hatchet threats showed up about the same time the plants were maturing enough to be readily visible. Maybe TW stumbled onto his crop at the time DN happened to be there and there was an altercation. I wonder if he grew it in IN too, he liked his weed per KN but didn't seem to have a lot of spare cash to throw that way. I don't know, my thoughts wander, so it's all just my .02.

 

[kkdj]

BBM
That was a thought that popped into my head when they postponed the hearings again. Because I wondered what the heck is going on that needs so much negotiating. Then it occurred to me maybe they're talking murder charges and his attorney is trying to negotiate that down to a lesser degree or manslaughter. I don't know though, do they even begin negotiations on a separate charge before the charge has even been filed?

I've tried really hard to be objective here and think it could not be DN, but I keep envisioning him running, waving that bleeping hatchet at kids on bikes or other people, and I keep seeing that picture of him driving past the search party enough times they got suspicious.

Sometimes I wonder if he had a cash crop(s) growing up there that he was trying to guard. He acted like someone being territorial or possessive of something he didn't want others around. (I've thought of being protective of his family but he left them elsewhere while lurking around the search party so that doesn't make sense.) The Ns landed in CO about the right time to plant outdoors. Maybe he thought he could make some quick money in the Fall and his 'guarding' behavior/hatchet threats showed up about the same time the plants were maturing enough to be readily visible. Maybe TW stumbled onto his crop at the time DN happened to be there and there was an altercation. I wonder if he grew it in IN too, he liked his weed per KN but didn't seem to have a lot of spare cash to throw that way. I don't know, my thoughts wander, so it's all just my .02.

Interesting thoughts. Could they charge him for murder and keep it sealed? So, we might not know?
Is it legal to grow to sell (as an individual)In CO? If not, I would think they would charge him if they could prove it was him harvesting to sell.
Also, when KN has said that he smoked a lot of THC, I think he did a lot more than just that! jmo

 

[kizzykat]

Does anyone know what happened in court today?

They're still showing the permanent planning hearing on the "JV" case from this morning, so either the docket hasn't been updated yet or there's nothing further to go on the docket and it's resolved as far as the court is concerned. I'll check it again later. For now I'm going with the docket hasn't been updated yet. I noticed as soon as CO does an update they take the current (today) hearing off the docket entirely. They also update quickly, usually same day.

 

[kizzykat]

Interesting thoughts. Is it legal to grow to sell (as an individual)In CO? If not, I would think they would charge him if they could prove it was him harvesting to sell.
Also, when KN has said that he smoked a lot of THC, I think he did a lot more than just that! jmo

I don't know if individuals can grow their own or not. He would've been growing on someone else's property. Isn't that Federal land up in that area?

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I can quite honestly say I am disappointed for TW and his family and friends that no further information has been requested by LE for his homicide by the powers that be. Or that MSM dont appear to be giving updates. I suspect there is a whole(Family) Hamlet/village/town on tender hooks pondering if they still have a murderer within their mists or whether the culprit is already behind bars. I suspect the same can be said of the Delphi double homicide. I understand all the political correctness etc and everyone is innocent before being proved guilty. As a bye stander from abroad looking in I really feel the local community deserve a correct and proper update about TW and the progress that has been made to apprehending his Murderer.

All in MPO
KR
Reacher

 

[kkdj]

FYI
I just learned that CO has free public transportation for homeless. Interesting. KN had mentioned that she wanted a car because she didn't like taking the bus. It's free for her for goodness sake!
I wonder if IN has free public transportation for homeless. I couldn't find anything on it. IN has free public transit for veterans tho.
Anyway, I wonder if this has been one of the ways DN used to get around.

 

[foxbluff]

FYI
I just learned that CO has free public transportation for homeless. Interesting. KN had mentioned that she wanted a car because she didn't like taking the bus. It's free for her for goodness sake!
I wonder if IN has free public transportation for homeless. I couldn't find anything on it. IN has free public transit for veterans tho.
Anyway, I wonder if this has been one of the ways DN used to get around.

BBM - I had no idea! This was a good find, kkdj, and hopefully someone here will be able to shed more light on the subj.