CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #2

[cathdawg]

On the RTV6 FB Site, I posted a question to Mr Sanchez, as he claimed that DN was not considered a suspect. My question was Mr Sanchez however, is DN considered as a POI. Mr Sanchez responded this am and said "yes he is still a person of interest as are others"
https://www.facebook.com/RafaelSanc...notif_t=video_reply&notif_id=1518007817476041

 

[Steleheart]

That was back in March, a couple weeks after the murders and 6 months before DN came onto the radar. Of all the vehicle colors out there, and the even smaller percentage with paper plates (temp tags), it's the combination of red + paper plates mentioned. What are the odds...? MOO

Except that when DN was photographed circling the search area the plates on his car were not paper plates though they were expired. I know there was more discussion of this way back in the A & L thread.

ETA Thread 72 - https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-13-Feb-2017-72/page9&p=13707618#post13707618

 

[Shiressleuth]

On the RTV6 FB Site, I posted a question to Mr Sanchez, as he claimed that DN was not considered a suspect. My question was Mr Sanchez however, is DN considered as a POI. Mr Sanchez responded this am and said "yes he is still a person of interest as are others"
https://www.facebook.com/RafaelSanc...notif_t=video_reply&notif_id=1518007817476041

TY for that Cath.

 

[sumzero]

ISP (and I have no reason to think CO is any different) early on said DNA testing, when prioritized (as in the Delphi case) could be completed in 48 hours. My educated guess is that LE always prioritizes evidence for testing. Items most likely to produce helpful DNA results take precedence over items that have little chance of yielding helpful or relevant results. Higher profile cases also get the fast track. I’m not into wishful thinking. It’s almost certain LE has DNA and they’re still looking for someone to match it to.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The new to us ABHAN charge in 2007 in SC was a remarkable find by @Daey!!

That we hadn't known about this arrest until now, leaves me wondering how many others are still unknown to us.

I've tried so hard to keep up with all DN's arrests, but for me it's like trying to hold onto smoke..

It has just occurred to me that this may well have been dropped as part of a plea deal, exactly as we have seen with the assault, trespassing and reckless endangerment charges here in Co.

Eta. Looking at the link again under Disposition and Judge it states "solicitor" which indicates to me it did not go to trial. The solicitor is shown as K. Redmond and is listed under Chesterfield County so I am wondering now if there are other charges listed under that county. Still checking.

 

[ocgrad]

I can only relate how it would be in Uk. Someone convicted of using a normally innocent tool (e.g. a hatchet) as an offensive weapon by threatening people with it would not have it returned - it would be destroyed. It would first be bagged as evidence for any possible trial. If there was any suspicion it had also been used in other crimes it would not be destroyed but kept. So I would think it would be similar. Regarding the rifle, presumably it would be returned to KN unless as above. Depending what has happened to those weapons could be significant therefore imo. Same with the car and belongings. This isn't over yet AFAICS.

For sure the testing on that rifle should be done and if they didn't find a match and had to start over looking for the murder weapon even that could have been tracked down but maybe not. I wouldn't expect the hatchet could be returned. Even when a case is disposed there is always the possibility for appeal so they have to hold evidence for as long as the sentence. If KN is still living in a shelter and I have no reason to think she's not, with no car, I'm not sure how they would return any property to her much less a firearm. I believe as long as the murder investigation is open they do not have to return the gun and it will remain in evidence. As for returning her car, she has to pay the impound fee as well as registration. To get registration she has to have valid insurance and maybe emission inspection. Without the car she can't hold on to much property. If it were returned her best option would be to sell or pawn what she could.
KN still shows separated on her FB page. I certainly would have thought there would be a fund available so she could get a divorce done at no cost. Not sure if she is dragging her feet or just can't pay for it.

 

[kc1023]

On the RTV6 FB Site, I posted a question to Mr Sanchez, as he claimed that DN was not considered a suspect. My question was Mr Sanchez however, is DN considered as a POI. Mr Sanchez responded this am and said "yes he is still a person of interest as are others"
https://www.facebook.com/RafaelSanc...notif_t=video_reply&notif_id=1518007817476041

Just wanted to offer my .02 on Rafael Sanchez - he is a very well known Indianapolis reporter for probably the last 20 years or so. I would think he is well connected and trustworthy. Just MOO.

 

[minazoe]

oh thank the lord J H Cry, that he is still a POI and has NOT been dismissed, because I wish to stay here and discuss DN all day and all night everyday that he is still a POI and hopefully to the day he goes down in flames, because I am ride or die on him and believe he is a sexual psychopath and a murderer and he will be be tried as such. MOO

 

[foxbluff]

Looking up court records in SC is a little difficult because you have to go in and out of county by county. I also haven't found much in FL because there too it is time consuming to look into each county and as we know he travels away from where he lives.

These may not be exact but it's a pretty good look at his time in SC:
2001 - 2002 Several Speeding Tickets - Spartanburg and Cherokee Co.
2003 - 2007 USMC - Indecent Exp - Busted 4 times - Camp LeJuene.
3/2006 Indecent Exposure - 2 yrs Susp/3 yrs Prob - Spartanburg Co.
2/2007 - Assault ABHAN - Dismissed - Dillon Co.
5/2007 - Speeding - Cherokee Co.
10/2007 - Indecent Exposure - 3 yrs jail - Beaufort Co.
Sometime above there was marriage and divorce.
5/2011 - Speeding - Cherokee Co.
10/2011 - DUI - Suspended License - Spartanburg Co.
11/2011 - Marriage.
12/2011 - Speeding, Seatbelt, Suspended - Spartanburg Co.
3/2012 - Driving Susp - Arrest - I think he had to spend some time in jail. - Spartanburg Co.
8/2012 KN - Passing and no Insurance. Things must have been getting out of control, maybe he didnt feel he could work with no license and a conviction and this must have been when his grandmother asked him to leave.
He must be a really aggressive driver.

Wow @ocgrad for all the time and effort that went into compiling this list! This post is a keeper and I'm probably not the only one who Hit the Print Button.

It came to me while studying this list of incidents in order, that KN probably married DN w/out knowing about those Indecent Exposure charges. Can you even imagine marrying somebody and then finding that out!?!

Thumbs Up to Beaufort County, SC for putting DN in jail for 3 yrs after what appears to be his 3rd Indecent Exposure charge.

And, as long as this list is, I expect it is only the tip of the iceburg of all the crimes he committed during that time frame!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Wow @ocgrad for all the time and effort that went into compiling this list! This post is a keeper and I'm probably not the only one who Hit the Print Button.

It came to me while studying this list of incidents in order, that KN probably married DN w/out knowing about those Indecent Exposure charges. Can you even imagine marrying somebody and then finding that out!?!

Thumbs Up to Beaufort County, SC for putting DN in jail for 3 yrs after what appears to be his 3rd Indecent Exposure charge.

And, as long as this list is, I expect it is only the tip of the iceburg of all the crimes he committed during that time frame!

Yes fox, I agree TY to Oc. When you mentally add on the In and Co charges too it really is mind blowing. Also, possibly charges not on here (like the AHBN that Daey found and the Co plea bargained ones of AT and RE that were dropped) it is even more unbelievable to me.

 

[WestieMom]

I can only relate how it would be in Uk. Someone convicted of using a normally innocent tool (e.g. a hatchet) as an offensive weapon by threatening people with it would not have it returned - it would be destroyed. It would first be bagged as evidence for any possible trial. If there was any suspicion it had also been used in other crimes it would not be destroyed but kept. So I would think it would be similar. Regarding the rifle, presumably it would be returned to KN unless as above. Depending what has happened to those weapons could be significant therefore imo. Same with the car and belongings. This isn't over yet AFAICS.

MOO only...
I had to go get fingerprinted at our city county building (Indianapolis,IN) and then come back on a separate date to pick up my dad’s pistol (which he used to take his own life).

Another MOO ... I haven’t kept up with where KN is living. Last I heard it was a shelter. She wouldn’t be able to bring a gun into a shelter, even if she was allowed to come and get it.

Edited to add that I also now remember I had to complete paperwork, in the witness of a notary, to submit before picking up as well. It was a lot of work, I felt and she may not be interested in going through that right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ocgrad]

http://www.wndu.com/content/news/Person-of-interest-in-Delphi-murders-back-in-Indiana-472831063.html

Just posting this link. Now he only threatened one person with a hatchet.

The prosecutor charged him with attempted trespass to a vehicle, I think this was the kids who were going rappeling, but not attempted assault like the sheriff's office wanted. I wish we could see a transcript of just how he threatened people, how closely did he approach, did he actually swing at someone or touch someone, the kids story included a note they took off as they thought he was about to hurl the hatchet through their car window.

 

[foxbluff]

It has just occurred to me that this may well have been dropped as part of a plea deal, exactly as we have seen with the assault, trespassing and reckless endangerment charges here in Co.

Eta. Looking at the link again under Disposition and Judge it states "solicitor" which indicates to me it did not go to trial. The solicitor is shown as K. Redmond and is listed under Chesterfield County so I am wondering now if there are other charges listed under that county. Still checking.

I seem to be looking at the same court record printout as you, except for BBM Chesterfield County. I don't see any mention of such a county, but notice that DN's address is given as Chesnee, SC.
??

 

[ocgrad]

Wow @ocgrad for all the time and effort that went into compiling this list! This post is a keeper and I'm probably not the only one who Hit the Print Button.

It came to me while studying this list of incidents in order, that KN probably married DN w/out knowing about those Indecent Exposure charges. Can you even imagine marrying somebody and then finding that out!?!

Thumbs Up to Beaufort County, SC for putting DN in jail for 3 yrs after what appears to be his 3rd Indecent Exposure charge.

And, as long as this list is, I expect it is only the tip of the iceburg of all the crimes he committed during that time frame!

You are welcome! I have been looking for something from FL but it is even more difficult to find data like this. However I have to believe it is there. So far the only thing I have come on is KN's mother took her to court in 10/2012 for custody of her son. If he spent all of 2013 with no LE contact it would be a first.
I believe KN said in the MS video that she did not know the truth of his conviction in either SC or Bartholomew Co. I think his first wife was aware though.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I will never understand why DNs wife purchased a gun while knowing how violent he is toward her. I can't imagine someone putting their strong hands around my neck in an effort to snuff out my life. Crystal McDowell's strangulation, at the hands of her own husband, comes to mind. He could have stopped at any time but chose not to do so. Consequently, Crystal's two children will live without their beautiful and successful mother while visiting their father in a TX prison, if they so choose.

DN chose, by making a very good decision, to stop choking KN. He can stop himself. He is not fully out of control. However, I do believe him to be a bit scattered as he has personally experienced much trauma in his life. At the same time, I cannot understand his will to shake a hatchet at anyone unless he has a death wish for his own life to end. IE, shake an axe at me and you'll find yourself with at least seven gunshot puncture wounds. Bullseye Shooter here!

As for ML, I cannot understand why the K9s did not track her presence.


Kizzykat, I have stated many times on WSs that there are no coincidences in murder investigations. I will say the same for missing persons. Coincidences are clues. Those clues are part of the puzzle until they don't fit together. "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit." Not every clue in an investigation will make sense to us. However, we shouldn't cast them away until they prove to be of no value.

Boxer, it troubles me anytime a murder occurs when no reward is offered. When TW was reported as missing, even Crime Stoppers, should have stepped in to offer a reward for his whereabouts. I've called the FBI, on other cases, to ascertain why a reward is not being offered. A standard reply is, "We are considering it." If I'm not mistaken, it was Indiana authorities who requested that a gag order to be placed, in order, for them to visit and interview with DN.

There is no reason for the gag not to be lifted now, with DN back in IN.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/eletter...ue-horse-love-it-or-hate-it-11-letters/21227/

RSBM for my reply.

Re the gun. Perhaps she got to the gun so he couldn't continue choking her. Or bought the gun as protection from him, because of the choking. She has admitted her fear of him

Re ML - maybe K9s didn't track her because she was never at the parking area.

I agree the coincidences and similarities are clues and pointers for LE to build upon.

No reward and the need for a gag order - if they have someone in mind or in jail already it would explain the absence of a reward. In do not want the "similarities" of the cases leaked to protect the integrity of their case, which may explain the dearth of info re this case.

TY for your post DeDee.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I seem to be looking at the same court record printout as you, except for BBM Chesterfield County. I don't see any mention of such a county, but notice that DN's address is given as Chesnee, SC.
??

That Chesnee address is his grandmothers address. Regarding Chesterfield County, I found no charges listed for DN there. His solicitor from the Dillon County disposed ABHAN charge was listed as K. Redmond. You can look for the attorneys on the same site and K.Redmond is shown as a Chesterfield County solicitor-two counties west of Dillon county and also on the state line. I was just trying to find out why he used an out of county solicitor for the Dillon one. Don't mind me.

 

[Shiressleuth]

MOO only...
I had to go get fingerprinted at our city county building (Indianapolis,IN) and then come back on a separate date to pick up my dad’s pistol (which he used to take his own life).

Another MOO ... I haven’t kept up with where KN is living. Last I heard it was a shelter. She wouldn’t be able to bring a gun into a shelter, even if she was allowed to come and get it.

Edited to add that I also now remember I had to complete paperwork, in the witness of a notary, to submit before picking up as well. It was a lot of work, I felt and she may not be interested in going through that right now.


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Sorry to hear that about your Dad. That is a lot to go through to retrieve the weapon. I guess LE have to make sure whom they give it back to in case it is used in another crime :frown:

 

[Jax49]

The gag order was requested by DN's Colorado attorney. Indiana LE made an informal request of Colorado authorities to not release info.

moo

Quoting myself to add a link (from November).

"Nations' attorney, Jennifer Chu, asked the judge to impose a gag order in the cases against Nations after complaining that he has been linked by media accounts to crimes for which he hasn't been charged. The judge said she will review the request."

http://gazette.com/bond-reduced-for-drifter-linked-to-mount-herman-threats-investigation/article/1614394

 

[ocgrad]

I will never understand why DNs wife purchased a gun while knowing how violent he is toward her.

Bullseye Shooter here!

As for ML, I cannot understand why the K9s did not track her presence. I trust K9s more than I do people, most often. Did it rain or snow after she went missing? I have not verified the climate during that time period. How many search efforts were performed to find her?

If it was DN, LE would know that by now.

Also, Colorado is my father's favorite state in the Union. Therefore, since I could walk, I've been to CO.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/eletter...ue-horse-love-it-or-hate-it-11-letters/21227/

DeDee, Thank you for your post. I respect your sleuthing skills and gut instincts as you dig out possibilities.
I think KN might actually not know it is illegal for her to provide him with access to a gun. I don't believe the story of their car being broken into but I can see her thinking there were wild animals they might need protection from. Also she said he held all their money and their phones. Was he paranoid that she would post their location on FB or maybe even call 911? We don't know if they bought the gun legally or if they bought it from another homeless camper or one of this brothers friends. So we can't know that she walked into Wal-Mart of her own free will and purchased the little .22. It may have been stolen. I hope LE did all their work to determine just where and when they bought it.

As for ML searches, they found her vehicle on 9/29 after she was reported missing on 9/24. If her friends were looking for her in the days before 9/29 they either didn't go to this trailhead (so was that not an area she usually hiked?) Or if they did the vehicle wasn't there. We know DN was still in the Mt Herman area during the search for TW. He may not have known right away that his vehicle had been photographed but I wonder if sometime after that he discovered LE was looking for someone in a red car that matched his. I think he may have been especially desperate as he seemed to be when he argued for more money at the pawn shop and of course as evidenced by his unhinged threatening behavior. ML may really just be a coincidence and her friends are surely not pushing LE for any more for which they are probably relieved.

As for the gag order I am not sure about it. The only report I see says his attorney asked for it and I believe there are various things that can be blocked in a gag order but it does not say how the judge ruled to apply it except later we are told that investigators asked for the order that prevented him to talk without an attorney present be lifted when he got to Clear Creek. So was that the extent of the gag order?

Colorado is a unique place. But do you think their often laid back attitude is why there is no public outrage over this murder of even a beloved local pillar? I do see that their news is dominated by busting illegal grows that threaten their pristine environment as well as a slew of gun related deaths almost daily. Maybe it is true almost anywhere that those with family and friends screaming loudest are more likely to get justice.
I remember reading recently in the MB thread that there was DNA recovered but it was too poor or small to yield results to help them. Since these murders TW, A&L, may have taken place all outdoors (or near a creek) is it possible that is why POI cannot be included or excluded? If DN has no alibi to exclude him and his DNA was not recovered from the scene does that mean he wasn't there that day? If a phone he used pinged a tower in Delphi on the 13th does it mean he murdered 2 girls? Not saying he is or isn't the killer but its reasons like that they are still begging for information from someone who knows. Right?

 

[heartgoesout]

DeDee, I remember reading that the gun used to kill TW was the same kind DN had when arrested after circling the search area. a .22? Hence one of a few reason DN is on this thread. Is that correct?