Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen-#2

[Claudette]

That surprises me - is there really no way in the USA for someone to be sectioned - ie taken into hospital for treatment to stop them harming themselves or others? I find that shocking if that's the case and agree that does need to change. It's only used in extreme circumstances here but does happen if necessary.

I don't mean to derail the conversation, because we are at risk of being very OT now but I'll give a quick explanation.

Used to be that you could throw anyone for any reason into the insane asylum. They changed this because people were being thrown in for reasons such as, a husband didn't think his wife was submissive enough. Obviously this isn't the way to go.

Today if someone threatens harm to themself or others you can get them put into the hospital for a few days and they'll be watched.

If you feel that your 30 year old child is depressed, you can't do anything to help them if they don't want help.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Can the media interview and air a minor without a parent/guardian's consent? TIA

Actually, I can answer this as my 17-year-old niece (at the time) was interviewed without her parents consent after the bullying case here in Estero, Florida where four teen girls were arrested. So, yes, I have known the media to interview minors without a parents consent. However, all the children I have seen interviewed from this case, I have seen the parents right next to them.

 

[elmomom]

Its troubling to read how quickly autism/Asperger's is thrown into the mix. I've seen it here, has this been confirmed?

As the mom of a child with Asperger's Syndrome and what I know of other people with Asperger's, tying horrific crime to someone with Asperger's really is surprising to me.

The AP is reporting that Ryan, the murderer's older brother is the one person who claimed Adam is autistic/aspergers. So, it's not really being "thrown" into the mix, but a statement from his brother.
Of course, his brother may have been grasping at straws for a reason for this in his own mind, and his brother's real or imagined autism may be the first thing that came to his mind.

 

[laurauk1]

It is VERY difficult and if they are able to put on a reasonable act, they aren't taken.

Dementia is another area where it is VERY difficult to have someone put on psychiatric hold for---many times they are also able to put a "normal" face on and are left at home.

it is sad. I don't think it is easy over here but I do know it happens. I don't know enough about The differences between the systems here and in the US and guess this isn't a conversation for here anyway but it's certainly interesting.

 

[MissJ]

A huge portion of US population suffer from depression, treated or not. Some localities worse than others. Does not make one a killer of any kind, there are too many variables involved in the make up of ones personality.

 

[Filly]

Involuntary commitment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Better known as the 302, Donjeta.

 

[DylansMom34]

You've probably missed the multiple posts I've made saying it is NOT autism that is the problem?

Thanks michmi... I'm trying to catch up. Each time I read a few posts, another page or two of posts show up. I'm slow. But thank you!!

 

[Pensfan]

There could be a million top notch psychologists available but if an adult does not want to see one there's really not much you can do. I think we're talking about two different things here.

Long-acting antipsychotic injections would have been useful in Gabby's shooter.
While thinking coherently, he would have been more likely to continue receiving his monthly injection.

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

Thank you! The issue boils down to once someone becomes 18, if they decide there's nothing wrong with them you can't force them to get help.

THAT'S what needs to change.

My sister and I have been trying to get our 86 year old mother to a psychiatrist, to no avail. I'm sure she's in the early stages of dementia, and her 'caretaker' and some of our relatives are coercing her to send them money. There are warnings about this all over Florida, yet the State says there's nothing that can be done unless she's actually harming herself. Go figure!

 

[laurauk1]

I don't mean to derail the conversation, because we are at risk of being very OT now but I'll give a quick explanation.

Used to be that you could throw anyone for any reason into the insane asylum. They changed this because people were being thrown in for reasons such as, a husband didn't think his wife was submissive enough. Obviously this isn't the way to go.

Today if someone threatens harm to themself or others you can get them put into the hospital for a few days and they'll be watched.

If you feel that your 30 year old child is depressed, you can't do anything to help them if they don't want help.

Thanks - that's helpful. I agree people shouldn't be thrown into mental asylums for any old reason by the way! Sad how society always seems to go from one extreme to another though, isn't it?

 

[iSleuth]

Possibly Ryan had multiple Id's, possibly an old/expired id

LE has specifically stated that they are not using a first name at this time.

The gunman...

I think it is very important for all of us to correct this error and inclination for now at least.

 

[wfgodot]

.....

The Associated Press ‏@AP
Official says Conn. shooting suspect's mother, Nancy Lanza, is presumed dead: http://apne.ws/12e8gO0 -SS

 

[FrayedKnot]

Watching the replay of the President's press conference. I am bawling like a baby.

 

[Pensfan]

A huge portion of US population suffer from depression, treated or not. Some localities worse than others. Does not make one a killer of any kind, there are too many variables involved in the make up of ones personality.

There are many types of depression. There is a correlation between Major Depression and committing homicide.


Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[Chili Fries]

It is VERY difficult and if they are able to put on a reasonable act, they aren't taken.

Dementia is another area where it is VERY difficult to have someone put on psychiatric hold for---many times they are also able to put a "normal" face on and are left at home.

A big problem is that in many jurisdictions, all you can do is call the police and they are taken to jail like a normal arrest.

One of my neighbors once had a severe psychotic episode, running around naked and acting, at least to my mind, like he could harm someone. My only recourse was to call the police and have him arrested. That was not something I thought was constructive because once he got out of jail he was very resentful about how he had been treated (not that he had been abused by the police, but because he didn't feel like he had done anything to warrant being arrested like a criminal). It would have really helped to have had a mental health professional accompanying the police that could take him into a specific mental health unit. And this was in a large city, Denver.

 

[legalmania]

Yes and no. (Not a professional, so posting based on personal experience.) If someone has harmed themselves or is making threats to harm or kill themselves they can be placed in a mental health facility against their will, but usually only for 72 hours, and most of them learn pretty fast that if you just stop making threats out loud, they will send you home.

If you are threatening to kill or harm someone else, they can do the same thing, usually for the same amount of time, but often, because of staffing, budget and legal issues, they can only get them into a facility if a medical pro or law enforcement official hears them make the threats.

With juveniles, it is easier to get them into treatment, long term, however, even then, with blatant signs of mental illness and obvious danger to everyone, it still takes a lot to get a child taken care of. Being mentally ill does not reduce the rights of an adult at all, so 99% of the time, if they don't want help, it can't be forced upon them.

In Florida they call it the Baker Act.

http://www.clerk.co.okeechobee.fl.us/Baker_act.htm

 

[lishac23]

The AP is reporting that Ryan, the murderer's older brother is the one person who claimed Adam is autistic/aspergers. So, it's not really being "thrown" into the mix, but a statement from his brother.
Of course, his brother may have been grasping at straws for a reason for this in his own mind, and his brother's real or imagined autism may be the first thing that came to his mind.

I couldn't find the exact quote but the brother did mention autism/aspergers but it was included in a list of issues...personality disorder, OCD, etc... so the fact that some reports have only stated him as having aspergers is what is bothersome.

 

[Melanie]

Attention please!

This tragic case is very involved and so much misinformation has been coming in up to this point. We've already had incorrect Facebook and Twitter or maybe they were correct? At this point, we just don't know.

So we'd like to ask that you all hold off on linking to social network links on this case, other than MSM's, at least for the time being. We'd also like to ask you to not sleuth the mom and dad and brother of the shooter.
So, until this case isn't so fluid, please show some restraint on posting anything not in the MSM and even then, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

TIA for your cooperation


fran

Thank you for that. I was feeling a little uncomfortable seeing private information (home, address, divorce info) when she was clearly a victim. May she RIP. I haven't seen much on the dad, but am sorry the brother was mistaken originally as the shooter. They need to be left alone to mourn and digest what has happened.

Best (and MOO of course).

Mel

 

[LotusPawprint]

I don't mean to derail the conversation, because we are at risk of being very OT now but I'll give a quick explanation.

Used to be that you could throw anyone for any reason into the insane asylum. They changed this because people were being thrown in for reasons such as, a husband didn't think his wife was submissive enough. Obviously this isn't the way to go.

Today if someone threatens harm to themself or others you can get them put into the hospital for a few days and they'll be watched.

If you feel that your 30 year old child is depressed, you can't do anything to help them if they don't want help.

ITA and to add to what you described so well, the process of deinstitutionalization has contributed to our mental health disaster (and the subsequent violence in our society).

Not enough resources or facilities and the wrong overall attitude towards getting help and providing help.


Gahhh.......so sad.

 

[QueenD]

Has any information been released about the person taken from the school in handcuffs?

I don't think so, though I admit the info may have slid right by me at some point.

It was reported early on........... Guy was in woodds near school in camo. I haven't heard nor seen what happened to him.

If he was just an innocent outdoorsman/hunter I beat he had a mild heart attack when they drew guns on him.