Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen-#4

[Wise Old Owl]

I am very curious as to what LE found at the scene that Lt. Vance deemed "very good evidence" as to filling in the pieces. Was it something written? Could it have been a flash drive? LE found something on him that seems to help with the investigation.

Sadly, we might never know what it is.





JMHO

 

[gxm]

IMO by his actions - he exhibited that he knew right from wrong, regardless of any "condition" that he suffered from. He wore a bulletproof vest - he didn't want to be shot or killed - yet he might had suffered from a condition where he actually felt no pain. IMO whatever his reason was - he had one. He knew what he was going to do and he did it - horrific as it was. He knew what he had done was wrong - he killed himself. This was a selfish, cowardly act - but done by someone that knew right from wrong.



JMHO

I agree. Whatever else the killer had going on, this was a premeditated attack. Further, he chose to attack unarmed women and children. It's interesting to me that these mass murderers never want a fair fight. They want to have the upper hand and be in complete control, often right down to orchestrating their own demise as the final act in their sick drama. I also find it interesting that more and more, the killers are kitting themselves out, dressing up to play the part of the (video game/movie?) killer. It seems to me that the things these mass killers have in common are: cowardice, angry self-absorption, lack of empathy, need for control, need to inflict fear, need to inflict pain and a desire to kill. Whatever else these people have going on, they are at heart cold-blooded (and cowardly) killers. There are plenty of people with "issues," heck just about everyone has at least one, but the desire to seek out defenseless targets and just start shooting? IMO, that doesn't come from autism or Asperger's or social awkwardness, that comes from some place else entirely. It takes a special kind of monster to massacre a room full of terrified 6-year olds. And I find myself very frustrated at attempts to pawn it off on mental illness or developmental disability.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I feel bad for the mother. She might have not been perfect, but she stuck with him. And look what it got her for her trouble.

And even so, people are still bashing her. :furious:

 

[FootballMom]

people with aspergers, autism and ocd have a higher risk of developing schizophrenia in adult life.

Do you have a link for any studies about that risk?

It was my understanding they are often mis-diagnosed with one vs. the other and not comorbidity.


"A person with Asperger’s syndrome can develop feelings of persecution and paranoia but there is a qualitative difference between these and the feelings of paranoia that are a sign of schizophrenia."

http://www.sabp.nhs.uk/advice/FAQs-...rgers Syndrome - Professor Attwoodextract.pdf

 

[Ricki]

Bedtime again for me. Past midnight here. I am sure i will have some catching up to do in the morning. Good night all.

 

[BloodshotEye]

I totally understand your point, IzzyBlanche. But we are both speculating; just taking polar opposite points of view. I agree, your suggestion/scenario is equally plausible. No question about that. Rest assured I am not 'mom bashing'. I'm not that kind of person. But I completely understand & appreciate your point of view.

 

[flipflop]

Do you have a link for any studies about that risk?

It was my understanding they are often mis-diagnosed with one vs. the other and not comorbidity.


"A person with Asperger’s syndrome can develop feelings of persecution and paranoia but there is a qualitative difference between these and the feelings of paranoia that are a sign of schizophrenia."

http://www.sabp.nhs.uk/advice/FAQs-...rgers Syndrome - Professor Attwoodextract.pdf

Children with Asperger's syndrome are at risk for developing other conditions, such as depression, ADHD, schizophrenia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder. But, there are various treatment options available for these conditions.

Because the level of intelligence often is average or higher than average, many people with Asperger's syndrome are able to function very well. They may, however, continue to have problems socializing with others through adulthood
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/mental-health-aspergers-syndrome?page=2

and yes they are very often mis diagnosed as aspergers/autism has hundreds of different faces....each one is very different from the next who are diagnosed with the same label.

 

[jjenny]

And even so, people are still bashing her. :furious:

It sounds to me that she did make mistakes. For one, I don't think it was a good idea to keep so many guns in the house with a trouble young son.
Maybe she was in denial over the extent of his issues.

 

[ohiogirl]

Thank you, but I have read that numerous times and again I say no mention of his wife of 17 years or his son. I just don't think that is right. They both are dead and I would think he would feel some kind of remorse or sadness. JMO

you or I have no idea what this man is going through. No matter what WE think is right or what we think he should say, do you really think we should tell him what he should put out to the media right now?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Do you have a link for any studies about that risk?

It was my understanding they are often mis-diagnosed with one vs. the other and not comorbidity.


"A person with Asperger’s syndrome can develop feelings of persecution and paranoia but there is a qualitative difference between these and the feelings of paranoia that are a sign of schizophrenia."

http://www.sabp.nhs.uk/advice/FAQs-...rgers Syndrome - Professor Attwoodextract.pdf

Most personality disorders are comorbid. Actually, it would be the rarity if one suffered from a single personality disorder. That is not the case for mood disorders though.
Also, it is well established that the onset of schizotypal diseases (schizophrenia, schizophreniform) in males is around the age of young adulthood (unlike for women, which is much later). Dyodd.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm sorry, but this isn't the first post I've seen speculating that dad was all-wise and mom was clueless.

I don't think that's fair.

For all we know, maybe when the killer started to have more behavioral problems, mom was the one who really got the picture and dad was the one in denial, and that's why they divorced? Where's the evidence that it was her way or the highway? That's just mean IMO.

And in any event, if Dad was the one who aw clearly that his son needed expertise way beyond what they could provide, why didn't he fight on his son's behalf, rather than--again, as far as we know--just turning the kid over to the mom and turning his back on the situation to the point that he hadn't been in contact for two years?

I just don't understand the mom-bashing here when so few facts are known. :banghead:

ETA: And the one undeniable fact that we know is, Mom had the kid in her home. Dad didn't.

I think what is happening is that people are piecing together the statements being released by people who knew Nancy personally and it is beginning to paint a picture of a woman who may have been in deep denial about her son's issues. That is not a crime. She did not deserve to die. She is not to blame for the actions of her adult son yesterday.

People are going to have questions. NL is a victim, but she is the only person who has had close contact with AL the past two years. He murdered his own mother. There has to be an underlining reason for this. So, I think it is fair to try and figure out the family dynamics. Unfortunately, you are correct that we do not have a lot of information, but the information we have gotten today is a little troubling.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Noone is perfect and it is ultimately AL's fault. I just wish this disaster had been averted.

Two things are bothering me:
Why was he found with his brother's ID? And why? I can't find the link

I dont know a lot about guns but was he trained to handle them? I remember reading somewhere that mom was a gun enthusiast (but that may just be a media spin.) Could AL shoot that many people accurately without training? And if he was trained, WHY?!

 

[gngr~snap]

Do you have a link for any studies about that risk?

It was my understanding they are often mis-diagnosed with one vs. the other and not comorbidity.


"A person with Asperger’s syndrome can develop feelings of persecution and paranoia but there is a qualitative difference between these and the feelings of paranoia that are a sign of schizophrenia."

http://www.sabp.nhs.uk/advice/FAQs-...rgers Syndrome - Professor Attwoodextract.pdf

Schizophrenia, autism may be linked in families
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/05/us-schizophrenia-autism-idUSBRE8640ZX20120705


ASD appears share a root cause with other mental illnesses, including schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. At first glance, schizophrenia and autism may look like completely different illnesses, he says. But closer inspection reveals many common traits,
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121023124524.htm

hmm interesting...

So ASD and Schizophrenia are similar?

 

[shygrl]

I rely on my fellow WSers here to help me out here as I know next to nothing about guns.

My assumption was that the semi-automatic weapon confirmed today that he used has the ability to "spray" the targets. So he didn't necessarily shoot each individual one at a time, one shot at a time. He just sprayed the room with gunfire the way people hose down their outdoor plants.

I repeat, I know next to nothing about guns so this could be a totally erroneous assumption of mine.

A semi automatic rifle which I think is what he used will fire every time the trigger is pulled. You can "spray" I suppose, but the trigger has to pulled each time you take a shot. A normal rifle you have to *advertiser censored* after each shot and that puts another bullet into the chamber. Semi automatics automatically put another bullet into the chamber so that step is skipped making you able to fire more shots in less time, but the trigger still has to be pulled. I guess I just want to make sure it is understood this kid had to pull the trigger every time he shot. He did not have an automatic weapon that fired many bullets with one shot. He still had to go through the process of pulling the trigger every time.

 

[jjenny]

Noone is perfect and it is ultimately AL's fault. I just wish this disaster had been averted.

Two things are bothering me:
Why was he found with his brother's ID? And why? I can't find the link

I dont know a lot about guns but was he trained to handle them? I remember reading somewhere that mom was a gun enthusiast (but that may just be a media spin.) Could AL shoot that many people accurately without training? And if he was trained, WHY?!

One of mother's friends is quoted saying mother used to take her children target practice. Mother's brother is a policeman. Maybe she grew up in a family where target practicing was a thing to do.

 

[fred&edna]

In the Atlanta area we have The Marcus Center.

http://www.marcus.org/

not sure what public schools do, but I do know each student has a "team" and an individual education "plan" "IEP"

It just seems that so many of these children are not guided properly... nothing for them to do except fall into a non-productive side of the computer world. I hope there are more centers such as these and public schools have enough funding to adopt some of their practices.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think what is happening is that people are piecing together the statements being released by people who knew Nancy personally and it is beginning to paint a picture of a woman who may have been in deep denial about her son's issues. That is not a crime. She did not deserve to die. She is not to blame for the actions of her adult son yesterday.

People are going to have questions. NL is a victim, but she is the only person who has had close contact with AL the past two years. He murdered his own mother. There has to be an underlining reason for this. So, I think it is fair to try and figure out the family dynamics. Unfortunately, you are correct that we do not have a lot of information, but the information we have gotten today is a little troubling.

I just had a thought .. perhaps part of his motivation in killing her was so she couldn't bear witness to what had been actually going on with him. As in Mom knew a little too much, and might ruin the image he was going to try to create for himself by committing this senseless act.

I still have a strong feeling that the '15 minutes of fame' thing is a strong motivator for these 'nothing' people who do crimes like this.

I'm wondering if the little '****' was worried that his hard drive and his mom might just reveal to one and all that he wasn't a glamorous dangerous psycho, but really just a lonely snivelling little '****' who never impressed anyone with anything, and doesn't deserve any attention at all.

A sheep in wolfs clothing hiding behind a big gun .. as is in fact the reality.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It sounds to me that she did make mistakes. For one, I don't think it was a good idea to keep so many guns in the house with a trouble young son.
Maybe she was in denial over the extent of his issues.

What parent doesn't make mistakes?

How many parents with troubled sons who have never exhibited violent behavior--which as far as we know from media reports the killer didn't until Friday--keep guns in the house?

How many parents out there are in denial over the extent of their children's issues?

Whatever mistakes she made, she paid the ultimate price for.

And until I see evidence that she had any reason to think he would commit this sort of act and didn't do anything to prevent it, including securing her guns appropriately, I am not willing to blame her for anything.

 

[Xavier]

Something very scary or very unpleasant likely happened to cause this. It is possible that dad initially moved out because his presence made the behaviors escalate in his son.

Our brother's had schizophrenia for about 30 years...and some of you who have family members with a serious mental illness know what I'm talking about....you've been there

The challenge is keeping him on his meds

If he does'nt he calls friends telling them he's running for Congress or is the new IBM CEO ....which is the delusional side effects

Our large family have all pitched in, many have familieis of their own and we've had calls at 3am from his residence mgr telling us our brother's missing....so we've had to drive all over the neighborhood to find him...sometimes he's sleeping on a friend's front porch...other times he's AWOL for 2 days and we've called 911 for help to find him

To be honest we really don't know if he'll completely snap....

We don't have reason to think that now, he's not dangerous or inclined that way...

But experts told us this is always a possibility...and hearing this fact from an expert is makes us always feel like we're on "Red Alert"...or always be ready for something to go wrong

It's the unknown part of mental illness..which is scary, because we can never really feel free so to speak...But, we all love him, help him in any way possible...all of us act as his guardian so he can avoid the "free-fall" zone that sometimes happens with this disability

 

[Pensfan]

Pensfan:

I'm directing this to you (but anyone with knowledge, please chime in!)....

What "typically" is the plan for education and recreation for children who exhibit same behaviors or have same/similar diagnosis as AL. I mean, what we know from reports (questionable as they are) that growing up he couldn't play sports, he was very intelligent, had poor social skills... so it seems his world was the computer and thus the graphically violent games were his only recreation. Is there a good overall way to direct, teach and guide these gifted (yet ill) children? If a plan exists and is followed, I know it might not have prevented this heinous crime, but surely it cannot hurt.

I hope parents of autistic children will answer this question. I'm not an education expert, but as a parent with 3 young adult males and one teen daughter, I, like most everyone else on this crime forum, realize that letting one's mentally healthy or mentally unhealthy child play violent games for hours each day is a bad idea.

Many of the graphic killer video games require an 18 year old to buy them, so manipulated parents are buying these for their young kids. Parents need to be reassured that it is okay to act like a parent. JUST SAY NO to bad ideas that come from your kids.