Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #100

[sds71]

Brady told the newspaper he believes the virus will be more of a factor this year than last.

The comments come ahead of the start of the NFL’s regular season.

The NFL carried out last season under strict COVID-19 safety protocols, including constant testing, required mask usage and limited contact with the outside public. Those protocols have been loosened somewhat this year...


Tom Brady had COVID-19 in February, report says

 

[ilovewings]

Brady told the newspaper he believes the virus will be more of a factor this year than last.

The comments come ahead of the start of the NFL’s regular season.

The NFL carried out last season under strict COVID-19 safety protocols, including constant testing, required mask usage and limited contact with the outside public. Those protocols have been loosened somewhat this year...


Tom Brady had COVID-19 in February, report says

Of course it will: there were no fans at last year's NFL- now the stadiums are packed with fans--- and there are other issues as well--

 

[CrimeAway]

I was just about to make a similar comment. Person A who is vaccinated, can still catch and spread the virus exactly the same as Person B who is unvaccinated. Person A's viral load is the same as Person B's. Doesn't make sense to me.

Can you please provide a scientific or MSM link for that? I have not read proof of that before, but perhaps I missed it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Identical twins: One was vaccinated for COVID, the other wasn't; how'd they fare?

Bobby and Billy Ford were inseparable as youngsters growing up in Williamsburg, Virginia. In 1993 Bobby opened Bobby’s Auto Service Center, where Billy eventually joined him.

In July 2021, Bobby said Billy wasn’t feeling well so he went to a medical provider where he was told he had the flu. The next day Billy was so ill he went to the Hospital emergency room and was admitted — with COVID-19.

“It was one employee after another going down,” Bobby said, noting employees under age 30 got COVID-19 badly and were on their backs for eight days, texting him “they’d never been so sick in their lives.”


Bobby and Billy Ford

Bobby was the last one to have symptoms: three days of fever. As a big man, 6-feet-3, 320 pounds, Bobby Ford might have been a prime candidate for hospitalization. But he, like other employees who had relatively minor symptoms, had been vaccinated: Bobby with Johnson & Johnson.

Even the twins' mother, 83, was infected and had a minor fever, but, she was protected by the Moderna vaccine.

Billy was not vaccinated. Bobby could not persuade his brother to dismiss conspiracy theories and get one.

Via phone from his hospital bed, Billy persuaded others in his family to get a vaccine. “He changed his mind on that, It was too late for him.”
Bobby said.

William H. “Billy” Ford, 59, died Aug. 14 in the hospital. He left behind a wife, three children, his mother and three brothers including Bobby.

After seeing how much his brother suffered, and he didn’t, Bobby has been trying to persuade people to get vaccinated.

“We have a whole lot of friends that were not vaccinated … a whole lot,” he said. “We know that a lot of people are looking at Bill and saying, ‘I need to do something.’ They’re finally changing their minds.”


Bobby Ford (right) talks with longtime employee Dickey Millard in the service bay of Ford's shop, Bobby's Auto Service Center, on Wednesday, Sept. 1, 2021.

Bobby’s troubled by misinformation spread about the vaccine. The other day, he said, someone came into the shop saying she was sorry Billy died. She then told Bobby her girlfriend’s boyfriend said the vaccines have tracking devices.

Bobby said he told the woman to leave and did not mince words.

“It’s people like you, repeating stupid (crap) from stupid people that keeps people from getting vaccines,” Bobby said he told her. “And she probably tells 20 people a day the same (stuff).”

 

[CrimeAway]

I will have to take the Moderna jab and I don't like what is turning out to be a delay in getting that third shot. Given the situation with Delta, I don't think the FDA should be dragging its feet. I don't think I want to mix and match the vax, so I will wait for Moderna.

I'm waiting to get another J&J shot, but for some odd reason, J&J doesn't make the news as much. I've seen a few encouraging articles, but then no follow up. The clinics won't give another one right now--or give a different vaccine as a booster until they get advice from the CDC.

But, my thoughts are that we've already vaccinated the majority who want to be vaccinated, so it seems as though we should have enough for boosters now. If we have to wait eight months, however, I'll have to wait until early December.

Here's a report from a virology website about the immune responses from heterologous mixing of an adnovirus vectored vaccine (AstraZeneca/ChadOx) and a RNA based vaccine (Pfizer/BionTech) compared to the responses following 2 doses of an Adnovirus vaccine (AZ/ChadOx). The J&J vaccine is also an Adnovirus vectored vaccine, where as Pfizer and Moderna are both RNA based vaccines.

It's a small observational study, so it has its limitations, but I thought it worth sharing.

Here is the link to the discussion of the study:

Heterologous Vaccine Regimens Might be Better

The study itself:

Immune responses against SARS-CoV-2 variants after heterologous and homologous ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/BNT162b2 vaccination | Nature Medicine

I hope there will be more studies published on this subject soon.

ETA:
"BNT" refers to the Pfizer/BionTech RNA vaccine.
"ChAd" refers to the AstraZeneca/ChAdOx Adnovirus vaccine.
Also adding additional screenshots.

 

[ilovewings]

Identical twins: One was vaccinated for COVID, the other wasn't; how'd they fare?

Bobby and Billy Ford were inseparable as youngsters growing up in Williamsburg, Virginia. In 1993 Bobby opened Bobby’s Auto Service Center, where Billy eventually joined him.

In July 2021, Bobby said Billy wasn’t feeling well so he went to a medical provider where he was told he had the flu. The next day Billy was so ill he went to the Hospital emergency room and was admitted — with COVID-19.

“It was one employee after another going down,” Bobby said, noting employees under age 30 got COVID-19 badly and were on their backs for eight days, texting him “they’d never been so sick in their lives.”

View attachment 311551
Bobby and Billy Ford

Bobby was the last one to have symptoms: three days of fever. As a big man, 6-feet-3, 320 pounds, Bobby Ford might have been a prime candidate for hospitalization. But he, like other employees who had relatively minor symptoms, had been vaccinated: Bobby with Johnson & Johnson.

Even the twins' mother, 83, was infected and had a minor fever, but, she was protected by the Moderna vaccine.

Billy was not vaccinated. Bobby could not persuade his brother to dismiss conspiracy theories and get one.

Via phone from his hospital bed, Billy persuaded others in his family to get a vaccine. “He changed his mind on that, It was too late for him.”
Bobby said.

William H. “Billy” Ford, 59, died Aug. 14 in the hospital. He left behind a wife, three children, his mother and three brothers. Including Bobby.

After seeing how much his brother suffered, and he didn’t, Bobby has been trying to persuade people to get vaccinated.

“We have a whole lot of friends that were not vaccinated … a whole lot,” he said. “We know that a lot of people are looking at Bill and saying, ‘I need to do something.’ They’re finally changing their minds.”

View attachment 311556
Bobby Ford (right) talks with longtime employee Dickey Millard in the service bay of Ford's shop, Bobby's Auto Service Center, on Wednesday, Sept. 1, 2021.

“There are so many sick people in the ICU,” Bobby said, noting he saw a shorthanded hospital staff, struggling with COVID-related absenteeism.
“You have to go through the valley of death in the emergency room,” he said, noting people were all over coughing and hacking. “I was just like, ‘Oh my God, this place is a disaster.' ”

Bobby’s troubled by misinformation spread about the vaccine. The other day, he said, someone came into the shop saying she was sorry Billy died. She then told Bobby her girlfriend’s boyfriend said the vaccines have tracking devices.

Bobby said he told the woman to leave and did not mince words.

“It’s people like you, repeating stupid (crap) from stupid people that keeps people from getting vaccines,” Bobby said he told her. “And she probably tells 20 people a day the same (stuff).”

Very interesting--- almost like a case study- you would think the friends of Billy would see clearly that the vaccine can save lives----

 

[Cool Cats]

Very interesting--- almost like a case study- you would think the friends of Billy would see clearly that the vaccine can save lives----

Yes Billy's friends seem to be coming around to getting vaccinated according to this paragraph from the article:

“We have a whole lot of friends that were not vaccinated … a whole lot,” Bobby said. “We know that a lot of people are looking at Bill and saying, ‘I need to do something.’ They’re finally changing their minds.”

Well let's hope so.

 

[mickey2942]

It is actually an occ health & safety issue. imo

Employers have the right (and obligation) to protect their employees in occ health & safety matters.
In this instance, to try to provide them with a covid free working environment.

I really don't see it being a slippery slope when it is occ health & safety related.

EG:
Employers have a duty to provide and maintain, so far as is reasonably practicable, a working environment that is safe and without risks to the health of employees. This includes preventing risks to health (including psychological health) and safety associated with potential exposure to COVID-19.

Employees have a duty to take reasonable care of their own and others health and safety in the workplace and cooperate with their employers about any action they take to comply with the OHS Act or Regulations.
Prevention and management of exposure to coronavirus (COVID-19) in the healthcare and social assistance industry - WorkSafe

The difference between Australia and the United States. More than an ocean. People in the United States are usually allowed to have freedom from government and employers mandatory demands.

That being said, it is not always true. I have worked jobs that required TB tests, fingerprints, background checks, all sorts of shots...but the difference is that I agreed to the various shots, tests, checks prior to employment, not after the fact as a condition of maintaining employment.

This should be interesting in the United States if any cases go to the Supreme Court.

 

[CrimeAway]

Although the available Covid 19 vaccines still seem to be effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death IMO, (I recall that this was the primary endpoint of the original trials) they may be less effective at preventing infection, especially against the Delta variant.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/01/are-covid-vaccines-becoming-less-effective-.html

A vaccinated person is still less likely than an unvaccinated person to get infected with Sars-cov-2 (vaccination showed 53% effectiveness against INFECTION in this study)
Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines in...

I think that it is important to know what we measuring effectiveness AGAINST.

Infection? (positive PCR test?, at what cycle threshold?)
Symptomatic Illness?
Severe Illness?
Hospitalization?
Death?


If a vaccinated person does become infected, it appears that they have the potential to spread infection, but that they are carrying virus in the nose for a shorter amount of time than an unvaccinated person.
Fully vaccinated people might not be as contagious as you think

COVID transmission among vaccinated, unvaccinated. What experts say.

Risks of the Delta Variant for Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated People

Obviously, this virus, like all viruses, mutates, and evolves (which it can only do when it replicates inside a host). I think that it is important to still take precautions, such as masking, in areas where there may be others, especially if they are unvaccinated, and unmasked etc. JMO

ETA link

 

[Cool Cats]

Updated: September 5, 2021, 8:56 PM EDT

Covid-19 Tracker
World Map of Vaccinations
Vaccine Tracker - see map

• 374 million doses have been given so far in the US.
• In the last week an average of 942,472 doses per day were administered.

The biggest vaccination campaign

• Global
• U.S.
• U.S. Vaccine Demographics
• FAQ
• Covid-19 Tracker
• More Than 5.48 Billion Shots Given World Wide across 182 countries.
• Enough to fully vaccinate 35.7% of the global population.
• The latest rate was roughly 38.7 million doses a day.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

COVID Can Worsen Quickly at Home. Here’s When to Call an Ambulance

Most Australians diagnosed with COVID-19 recover at home, rather than in a quarantine facility or hospital. About 10% have required hospital treatment. However, a handful have had worsening symptoms, did not receive emergency care and died at home.

 

[Cool Cats]

The difference between Australia and the United States. More than an ocean. People in the United States are usually allowed to have freedom from government and employers mandatory demands.

That being said, it is not always true. I have worked jobs that required TB tests, fingerprints, background checks, all sorts of shots...but the difference is that I agreed to the various shots, tests, checks prior to employment, not after the fact as a condition of maintaining employment.

This should be interesting in the United States if any cases go to the Supreme Court.

You hit the nail on the head.


Hit Hammer Nail Head Stock Photo

Your Quote:

"...but the difference is that I agreed to the various shots, tests, checks prior to employment, not after the fact as a condition of maintaining employment."

Ordering someone to get vaccinated as a condition of employment should only be done PRIOR to getting hired for the job, not after you have been working there for years.

So now I have more understanding towards those who are working a job and then are suddenly mandated to get a vaccine in order to keep their job. I can understand why some employees would fight against this.

I understand the job mandate to have to get vaccinated but I also now see why some are against it.

Mandating masks is fine because wearing masks becomes part of a work uniform, like scrubs, like any uniform.

Vaccines are different, nothing like a work uniform that you can just take off after work.

 

[Cool Cats]

COVID Can Worsen Quickly at Home. Here’s When to Call an Ambulance

Most Australians diagnosed with COVID-19 recover at home, rather than in a quarantine facility or hospital. About 10% have required hospital treatment. However, a handful have had worsening symptoms, did not receive emergency care and died at home.

What is a quarantine facility? Here we quarantine at home.

To quarantine at home a person with Covid just stays confined to their own bedroom or basement etc... A food tray is put outside their door etc...

Like Chris Cuomo from CNN quarantined in his basement.

There is nowhere else to go.

 

[nightowl1975]

Ordering someone to get vaccinated as a condition of employment should only be done PRIOR to getting hired for the job, not after you have been working there for years.

.

Obviously it would be impossible to mandate a vaccine that didn’t exist at the time of initial employment, so are you saying there should NEVER be a time or circumstance where the employer should be able to modify the terms of employment? The employee is still within their rights to decline continued employment if the new terms are not satisfactory.

 

[Cool Cats]

Obviously it would be impossible to mandate a vaccine that didn’t exist at the time of initial employment, so are you saying there should NEVER be a time or circumstance where the employer should be able to modify the terms of employment? The employee is still within their rights to decline continued employment if the new terms are not satisfactory.

I said:

"I can understand why some employees would fight against this."

"I understand the job mandate to have to get vaccinated but I also now see why some are against it."

 

[mickey2942]

Obviously it would be impossible to mandate a vaccine that didn’t exist at the time of initial employment, so are you saying there should NEVER be a time or circumstance where the employer should be able to modify the terms of employment? The employee is still within their rights to decline continued employment if the new terms are not satisfactory.

Which, is exactly what is happening now. People are given a "choice" in many jobs. Get the vaccine or provide a negative PCR test 2x a week.

Many people, are choosing to leave jobs.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I am just waiting for the day when the charges will start. Charges against people who walk around with covid, potentially infecting other people.

We charge people who potentially infect others with HIV. I don't see covid being any different.

Man arrested, accused of knowingly spreading HIV to two people
Man charged with knowingly spreading HIV
Florida man accused of knowingly transmitting HIV to partner

This is my thinking as well. The new definition of "freedom" and "liberty" is largely......... just Selfishness.

Clearly doing the BEST things possible for community health and welfare must override individual personal liberty, if we are ever going to control this.
When you exclude the kids under 12, there is a very significant percentage of Americans who WANT EVERYONE TO BE PROTECTED, more than needing the satisfaction of an individual liberty

Currently the government is paying for all these extraordinary hospitalizations and Regeneron Clinics. Therefore, WE are paying for all this. Remember............... the cost of freedom isn't free.

I am sick and tired of paying for stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.

Maybe there should be a prerequisite to have a vaccination to get a room in a hospital.
Maybe people should pay out-of-pocket for Regeneron treatments, or fight tooth and nail with your insurance company to get it.

 

[Sundog]

Must Employers Bargain with Unions over Mandatory Vaccines?

"Most mandatory vaccination policies ultimately provide for discipline or discharge, which is quintessentially a mandatory subject of bargaining," said Anthony George, an attorney with Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner in Denver.

BBM.

In the U.S., changes in working conditions have to be bargained with the employer's unionized employees. This article posted by The Society for Human Resources Management describes the process for mandating vaccines for unionnized employees.

At our public universities in Ohio right now, most of us have just recently annoounced the implementation of a vaccine mandate for later this fall since the FDA has approved the vaccine. But we can only implement it at this stage for students and at-will employees, not yet for the faculty and staff who have collective bargaining agreements, i.e. are unionized. The conditions of employment have to be bargained, so we are in the process of doing that, unless the bargaining unit (union) waves the requirement to bargain.

Also,the state legislatures play a role in the vaccine mandate, for example some state legislatures have passed legislation that prohibits vaccine mandates for state employees, and if the governor can sign the law or veto it. So several layers of issues that impact the implementation of vaccine mandates in the U.S. for state/public employees.

 

[nightowl1975]

Which, is exactly what is happening now. People are given a "choice" in many jobs. Get the vaccine or provide a negative PCR test 2x a week.

Many people, are choosing to leave jobs.

We all have choices, employers and employees alike. It may be that some employees will need to seek employment in a totally different sector, or it may be that employers will have to loosen their requirements in order to fill positions.

I do wish one could produce proof of antibodies in lieu of vaccination, but I think we are a ways away from knowing enough about antibody levels to make this feasible. I don’t envy those on either side of the employment dilemma. These are difficult times for sure.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Which, is exactly what is happening now. People are given a "choice" in many jobs. Get the vaccine or provide a negative PCR test 2x a week.

Many people, are choosing to leave jobs.

But as the article about the firefighters show, personal liberty also says to "refuse tests".
And IF companies provide for non-stop weekly testing, are they going to charge the employee? The employer should not have to pay for that, when there is clear evidence that weekly tests, would not be necessary with a single vaccine.

Employment and employment law and policies will be changing in the future. It will be one v-e-r-y bumpy ride..

Will insurance companies be able to require vaccination to get health insurance?

We have seen plenty of information and links here showing the possible future devastation facing the teaching industry, the nursing industry, other health care positions. Are people going to stay away from these because "not worth the burn out" "not worth the toxicity" or because they will require vaccination? who knows.