Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #47

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Before we reopen our schools too fast and say kids are not going to die from the virus, consider below. If the children are carriers, and the grandparents die, who will care for these kids? It's complicated.

More than 2.6 million children live in homes where grandparents are the householders and are responsible for them. Of these, almost 1 million children have no parents present in the home.

More than 2.5 million grandparents are the householders and are responsible for their grandchildren living with them.

Source: AARP
 
Given how viral loading works, schools would be a primary hypothesis when a teacher gets CV. Sure, they could have gotten it anywhere else, but many were social distancing except for going to work. Everyone I know was.

But the real problem is that no one knows yet how long people are contagious. Each of us can go read the scientific literature, it's easy enough to find. It is contradictory. 14 days, seems to me, a pretty conservative view. If we find out there are differences in the two main strains of CV19 in terms of how long it lasts in the body (and I think this will be ultimately the finding), then it might be 14 days for one strain and 28 for the other.

Of course, that would mean we were testing way more people and not just people who show up at hospital. We're no where close to that yet.

We'd also have to start testing broadly and have researchers look at phylogeny of the virus to see if there are correlations between virus strain/point mutation and how long it lives. Viruses love to evolve to live a long time if they possible can. (Sorry for anthropomorphizing the virus, but that's how it looks to me)
The info we got from the UK Gov to each household basically has 14 days as the quarantine and we know that from the Chris Cuomo basement story right? Do you have a link for the 28 days? Because that could happen in a household if people infect each other at different times. Eg. Chris Cuomo got it and had to quarantine. Close to the end of his 14 days, his wife has it and has to quarantine for 14 days and etc for anyone else in the household who may get it from his wife.
 
Well, that is interesting.

When you test a captive group, you find most positive CV cases are asymptomatic. This is good. Would be nice to actually put "most" into an actual percentage though.

Asymptomatic cases pose challenge for Boston homeless shelters | Boston.com

As of Monday morning, 240 homeless residents in Boston have tested positive for COVID-19, representing about 25 percent of the total population, according to city data.

“We went from almost no one to a huge influx of COVID-positive people, with the really interesting twist that most of them were asymptomatic, they did not have symptoms,” Jim O’Connell, president of Boston Health Care for the Homeless, said in a recent interview with Boston.com.

O’Connell attributed the rise in cases to testing availability. He said there were just a handful of cases at one of the shelters at the time, and the state gave permission to have everyone staying there tested. Roughly 140 to 150 tested positive.

“We did have a surge, but the surge was primarily because we had an opportunity to do universal testing at one of the shelters,” he said. “And there was a lot of asymptomatic passing of the virus, which was a surprise to everybody.”
 
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I really cannot wrap my head around this going on like it is now through the end of 2020, without some steps out into the world and more ways to keep businesses humming and get students back to school. We must keep working on solutions. We have tremendous wealth just in this country alone, plus a world full of diverse thinkers and technology that was unimaginable 20 years ago.
I agree, Even not counting the economic impact, think of all the sadness of not going out until next year. I already don't go out, I see no reason to do take out because by the time I get home the food is cold, and I sit and eat it in a silent house. A vaccine will not be found for months, if not years. And at 71, I don't have enough time left in my life to look that far ahead. If things are not allowed to be opened, I don't need to sit and take up oxygen just to say I'm alive.

Yes, if people are depressed, we're suppose to talk with health providers - and I can't think of anything more depressing than talking to a face on a screen about how I am alone and sad, and they reply back with meaningless words. No human interaction, no feeling that they even care more than getting paid for a virtual visit.

MOO
 
There are all kinds of reasons, with a long history. Small businesses are getting other aid. But the small businesses depend on the labor of many of those undocumented workers.

In the UK, where anti-immigrant sentiment is very high, and they effectively have barred all Romanian labor - they've quietly (almost secretly) had to import thousands of Romanians, to work for very little money, or else their fruit isn't getting picked. Thousands of bushels of fruit crops have wasted. England has a real problem right now with food security, for obvious reasons.

So these lucky Romanians get to pack onto a plane, during a pandemic, be transported to low quality housing, work long hours, and get sent home with a check.

We don't do that in California. We did it a long time ago (google the Bracero Program) and it didn't work. It was so hard on the children of the families (unlike UK, we don't fly people in - they come across land). We're not. big into family separation in California. Most of us believe that all workers should be treated with dignity

So, since we need fruit pickers here (badly) and we export enough produce from California to feed several other states, it's important that even those these workers do not meed federal standards for entering the US, we have them here.

They are small in number. They are permitted to send their kids to school. They have to be vaccinated to go to school, just like everyone else. We know where they live, they have to provide utility bills or housing contract to go to school. That way, health improves and criminality is reduced.

So don't worry about how California is doing it. We've got an economy that recognizess all essential workers.

I'm listening to Gov Newsom's live conference right now. He is talking about how in our second list of objectives, we have to secure our food supply. It's picking season for many crops, and it's also packing season so that people outside of the Central Valley and outside of California can get food - that may include some of you here on WS.

We produce almost all your almond milk, for example. Shelf stable and fresh alike. Many of those workers are undocumented because the federal government doesn't think they qualify to be "essential." But no one else will pick almonds. So California officially regards them as essential and treats them as essential.

Strawberries, lemons, limes, oranges, avocados, tangerines are all going from field to market right now. We hear the lemon trains every morning. The workers at the lemonade/lemon juice plant are about 10% undocumented, the rest are legal residents. Right now, that plant is shut down and soon the refrigerators will be full, so Gov Newsom is authorizing food production workers to go back to work, with a specific social distancing plan (and masks).

Personally, I like citrus. I can live without strawberries. Lots of people get frozen strawberries, apparently. If that industry fails, I'm not sure the owners have the means to restart easily - eventually, sure. But no rancher I know is making huge money, they are making an okay living, the workers (documented or not) get $15 an hour, but that doesn't go far in California. With 4 wage earners in a household, though, it's a good living - and that's how most agricultural workers live. It's worse in most other states.
Thanks for all the information on Cali and their ways of doing things.
I'm really not worried about it, as you said. I stated that I was not full aware How they did it, but I do know from news the homeless population is through the roof there. Is there any way these people could do the work on these farms and get government monies to help get them off the street like the illegals? The small business thing I mentioned was just one thing I thought of when writing that post because the way I understand it, the Federal loans are running dry and they are going to need extra help. I apologize if they are getting aid elsewhere and I have yet to read about it.

So the UK funnels illegals in to work, also?

Are these field jobs that hard to do, or do people just assume that type of work is beneath them. If all else fails, I would definitely do the job to keep myself and family from living on the streets. IMO
 
Text scam claims you have been in contact with someone who has COVID-19, Maine police warn

Scammers are sending out what appears to be an urgent text telling people about possible exposure to someone with COVID-19, and police in Maine are warning people not to fall for it.

The text tells the recipient they have come into contact with someone who tested positive for the coronavirus. It then advises them to self-quarantine and tells them to click a link for more information, The Thomaston Police Department said in a Facebook post on Wednesday.
...
 
My link doesn't agree with your opinion and neither do I. The physicians are the ones trained to decide what drugs to use. They don't have the luxury of waiting until trials conclude because people are dying now. If you want to ignore a physician's advice and eat apples rather than take a medication, that's your decision.

JMO

Treatments for COVID-19: Drugs being tested against coronavirus | Live Science


Because of the life and death situation the Covid virus presents, physicians all over the country are using a myriad of medications empirically to treat dying patients. They are throwing everything at this virus. Some of these meds might work on some patients, not on others. In the meantime, controlled studies are being conducted, as they should, to see if any of these medications will help patients and ultimately be used as treatment down the road. i applaud doctors who are trying different medications empirically as they feel they have nothing to lose if they have a dying patient in front of them.
 
I agree, Even not counting the economic impact, think of all the sadness of not going out until next year. I already don't go out, I see no reason to do take out because by the time I get home the food is cold, and I sit and eat it in a silent house. A vaccine will not be found for months, if not years. And at 71, I don't have enough time left in my life to look that far ahead. If things are not allowed to be opened, I don't need to sit and take up oxygen just to say I'm alive.

Yes, if people are depressed, we're suppose to talk with health providers - and I can't think of anything more depressing than talking to a face on a screen about how I am alone and sad, and they reply back with meaningless words. No human interaction, no feeling that they even care more than getting paid for a virtual visit.

MOO
It is a very depressing thought. Just thinking of another 3 weeks is getting me down. They have to sort this out.
 
It's like deciding to quit taking an antibiotic before the prescribed length of treatment. Your infection comes back so you go back on antibiotics again. You quit taking them before the required length of treatment because the infection appears to clear up and ....Voila! a few days later it comes back again, only this time you find you're antibiotic resistant and you're basically screwed.
Yes.......as far as I’ve read about the 1918/1920 pandemic is......

1st hit.......lowest number of deaths...

2nd hit most fatalities..

3rd hit.....somewhere between #1 and #2
 
Because of the life and death situation the Covid virus presents, physicians all over the country are using a myriad of medications empirically to treat dying patients. They are throwing everything at this virus. Some of these meds might work on some patients, not on others. In the meantime, controlled studies are being conducted, as they should, to see if any of these medications will help patients and ultimately be used as treatment down the road. i applaud doctors who are trying different medications empirically as they feel they have nothing to lose if they have a dying patient in front of them.
I agree and that is why it is called compassionate use. If all hope is lost then it could work. Even if only one person is saved in that scenario.
 
Thanks for all the information on Cali and their ways of doing things.
I'm really not worried about it, as you said. I stated that I was not full aware How they did it, but I do know from news the homeless population is through the roof there. Is there any way these people could do the work on these farms and get government monies to help get them off the street like the illegals? The small business thing I mentioned was just one thing I thought of when writing that post because the way I understand it, the Federal loans are running dry and they are going to need extra help. I apologize if they are getting aid elsewhere and I have yet to read about it.

So the UK funnels illegals in to work, also?

Are these field jobs that hard to do, or do people just assume that type of work is beneath them. If all else fails, I would definitely do the job to keep myself and family from living on the streets. IMO
No the UK does not do that. The OP did not produce a link although I have asked. This is the problem with posting an unverified fact.

This is the reality, hire of British and legal foreign workers. Not illegal immigrants.

"Eastern Europeans to be flown in to pick fruit and veg - BBC News" Farm workers to be flown in from Eastern Europe
 
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Thanks for all the information on Cali and their ways of doing things.
I'm really not worried about it, as you said. I stated that I was not full aware How they did it, but I do know from news the homeless population is through the roof there. Is there any way these people could do the work on these farms and get government monies to help get them off the street like the illegals? The small business thing I mentioned was just one thing I thought of when writing that post because the way I understand it, the Federal loans are running dry and they are going to need extra help. I apologize if they are getting aid elsewhere and I have yet to read about it.

So the UK funnels illegals in to work, also?

Are these field jobs that hard to do, or do people just assume that type of work is beneath them. If all else fails, I would definitely do the job to keep myself and family from living on the streets. IMO

in 1990 my husband left me, I had four children to raise. I worked cleaning a clubhouse in a gated community, which involved cleaning four restrooms in the clubhouse, over twenty toilets, among other things. It was not beneath me, I needed to feed my children. By the way I had been a stay at home mom, though I did child care in my home during that time. After the divorce I did what I had to do, also cleaned homes, and one day I was asked to cleaned windows for an office in the hot Florida sunshine, I did it, I was in my mid forties at that time. I also attended classes for computer skills and eventually worked in a large office as their head bookkeeper. So yes, people that are not working can find other work, yet there at not many people hiring right now, where would they work. It isn't easy worrying where your next paycheck will come from. Many evenings I broke down in tears, and even thought about ending my life, except I had four children who needed me.

I feel terrible for those people who work in the restaurants or hospitality, they want to get back to work. It isn't easy trying to pay bills, put food on the table, and no idea when you will be able to return to work. I couldn't imagine what they are going through right now.
 
Because of the life and death situation the Covid virus presents, physicians all over the country are using a myriad of medications empirically to treat dying patients. They are throwing everything at this virus. Some of these meds might work on some patients, not on others. In the meantime, controlled studies are being conducted, as they should, to see if any of these medications will help patients and ultimately be used as treatment down the road. i applaud doctors who are trying different medications empirically as they feel they have nothing to lose if they have a dying patient in front of them.
ITA. The controlled studies will be helpful if there is a second wave. Many anticipate there will be.

JMO
 
We can talk endlessly about how to start up again. If it turns out that the "open America" models dictate that we accept a long term level of COVID cases to the extent health care systems can handle it, there still remains the elephant in the room. Who is paying for all of this? Since Reagan's Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, hospitals have to treat ppl in need of emergency care, irrespective of ability to pay, citizenship, or even legal status. Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia

"Cost pressures on hospitals
According to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, 55% of U.S. emergency care now goes uncompensated.[12] When medical bills go unpaid, health care providers must either shift the costs onto those who can pay or go uncompensated. In the first decade of EMTALA, such cost-shifting amounted to a hidden tax levied by providers.[13] For example, it has been estimated that this cost shifting amounted to $455 per individual or $1,186 per family in California each year.[13]"
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Some of those references are old, has there been some resolution to the problem of treating people who can't pay, and don't have enough assets to cover their treatments, even through medical bankruptcy?
 
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