Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #49

[katydid23]

So they can mass park to shop but not listen to a sermon. That appears to be the dichotomy. Shopping is essential but religious observance is not. Are drive in movies still open? Presumably not as drive in movies are non essential. I don't have an answer but hopefully the governor does.

Well, that right there is the problem...2 problems in the bolded above, actually.

One, liquor stores and abortion clinics stayed open as essential businesses. So some religious people felt uncomfortable that it was illegal to sit in their cars in the church parking lot, while people could go to abortion clinics and liquor stores, no problem.

The other issue is the 'right to assemble and practice religion' is a right given to all US citizens.

They can understand not being able to assemble inside churches right now, but why not be allowed to sit in their own cars and listen to the Easter sermon on car radio? What does that hurt?

<modsnip>

We do have freedom of religion and freedom to assemble for religious purposes, or we thought we did.

It just seemed to me that pettiness was on parade. JMO

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Sturgeon rejects newspaper claims of lockdown lift

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has denied claims that lockdown restrictions could be lifted next month.

Several Sunday papers have reported that lockdown measures could be relaxed from 11 May, including the re-opening of schools and some retailers.

Ms Sturgeon said it was still not possible to say when schools in Scotland would reopen.

She said that all decisions must be "solidly based and not premature".

Three days ago, Ms Sturgeon announced that Scotland's coronavirus lockdown would continue for "at least another three weeks".

 

[otto]

So they can mass park to shop but not listen to a sermon. That appears to be the dichotomy. Shopping is essential but religious observance is not. Are drive in movies still open? Presumably not as drive in movies are non essential. I don't have an answer but hopefully the governor does.

Are malls in lockdown and religious buildings in the same neighbourhood open? If everything (e.g.: museums, theatres, schools, parks, sports, medical appts., social visits) is understandably closed, can people use tech to get their sermon?

Was the church delivering an online sermon or closing? If tech is an issue, can someone in the congregation get it done. Which organization is supposed to respond to cars occupying a church parking lot? Is the gov't supposed to open churches in a R3 plague even though everything else is closed?

Drive in movie theatres are opening everywhere with a restriction of no more than 2 people in a car and everyone stays in their cars.

The longer we can delay getting sick, the better chance there is of a quick fix.

 

[tresir2012]

Because this is a brand new virus, all countries are learning about it as it happens. Data gathered early in the outbreak is showing some changes over time. At the outset of this pandemic, asymptomatic cases hadn't yet been discovered. In fact, we still don't have a good idea of how many people are asymptomatic.

If you look at the current closed/recovered cases vs deaths, it shows an international average of about 80% recovered and 20% ended in death. Some countries, including the US, show a death rate that is nearly double the international average. If the only people diagnosed with CoV19 are those who are sick, then it's very easy to understand that 20% will require hospitalisation, not only in China, but internationally as well.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 2,345,326 Cases and 161,191 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Thanks. Tested does not mean the total infected though, which is unknown, right? It is only 20% of those known and tested positive. My question was based on whether China figures were even available or reliable looking at their seemingly low death statistics.

 

[tresir2012]

Are malls in lockdown and religious buildings in the same neighbourhood open? If everything (e.g.: museums, theatres, schools, parks, sports, medical appts., social visits) is understandably closed, can people use tech to get their sermon?

Was the church delivering an online sermon or closing? If tech is an issue, can someone in the congregation get it done. Which organization is supposed to respond to cars occupying a church parking lot? Is the gov't supposed to open churches in a R3 plague even though everything else is closed?

Drive in movie theatres are opening everywhere with a restriction of no more than 2 people in a car and everyone stays in their cars.

The longer we can delay getting sick, the better chance there is of a quick fix.

I don't know the details but it sounds like the church broadcast on the radio, it wasn't 'open'. Congregation came in their cars and parked while listening on their radio. I don't think the pastor was giving the sermon in the car park. Sitting in your car in a car park listening to the radio appears to be an allowed pastime. But hey, we are all learning in this crazy situation.

 

[otto]

So they can mass park to shop but not listen to a sermon. That appears to be the dichotomy. Shopping is essential but religious observance is not. Are drive in movies still open? Presumably not as drive in movies are non essential. I don't have an answer but hopefully the governor does.

Are malls in lockdown and religious buildings in the same neighbourhood open? If everything (e.g.: museums, theatres, schools, parks, sports, medical appts., social visits) is understandably closed, can people use tech to get their sermon?

Was the church delivering an online sermon or closing? If tech is an issue, can someone in the congregation get it done. Which organization is supposed to respond to cars occupying a church parking lot? Is the gov't supposed to open churches in a R3 plague even though everything else is closed?

Drive in movie theatres are opening everywhere with a restriction of no more than 2 people in a car and everyone stays in their cars.

The longer we can delay getting sick, the better chance there is of a quick fix.

Those figures I posted did not mention recovery statistics or pre existing conditions in those who have recovered so I can't really comment.

The article does say that some of those over 80 would have died anyway under normal circumstances. See below.


"

The most recent data goes up to the start of April.

It shows in the week ending 3 April there were 16,000 deaths - 6,000 more than could be expected at this time of the year when the number of deaths normally starts to fall with winter over.

This is the highest death number since these figures were first published in 2005, more than the previous peak seen during the bad flu outbreak of 2015.

Not all these extra deaths were down to coronavirus, but a significant number were.

What we do not know is what will happen to these numbers in the future and whether in a few months time deaths will drop below expected levels.

If that happened, it would suggest coronavirus has brought forward deaths that you would expect to happen over the course of the next year.

Is the virus bringing forward deaths by a few months?
Every year, about 600,000 people in the UK die. And the frail and elderly are most at risk, just as they are if they have coronavirus.

Nearly 10% of people aged over 80 will die in the next year, Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter at the University of Cambridge points out, and the risk of them dying if infected with coronavirus is almost exactly the same.

That does not mean there will be no extra deaths - but, Sir David says, there will be "a substantial overlap".

"Many people who die of Covid [the disease caused by coronavirus] would have died anyway within a short period," he says.

Knowing exactly how many is impossible to tell at this stage. "

Per your article (infographic; attached), death rate stats indicate that death rates in the time of pandemic are unchanged from previous influenza years.

 

[katydid23]

Are malls in lockdown and religious buildings in the same neighbourhood open? If everything (e.g.: museums, theatres, schools, parks, sports, medical appts., social visits) is understandably closed, can people use tech to get their sermon?

Was the church delivering an online sermon or closing? If tech is an issue, can someone in the congregation get it done. Which organization is supposed to respond to cars occupying a church parking lot? Is the gov't supposed to open churches in a R3 plague even though everything else is closed?

Drive in movie theatres are opening everywhere with a restriction of no more than 2 people in a car and everyone stays in their cars.

The longer we can delay getting sick, the better chance there is of a quick fix.

But what is the difference between a drive in movie theatre and a church parking lot?

If I am caring for my Mother at home, and she wants to sit in the car in the church lot and listen too the sermon and watch the service from the car, what harm is there in that?

I can't see any danger there.

No one is asking anyone to 'open churches' in a plague. Just asking to be allowed to sit in our cars and watch the large outdoor screen, like a drive in movie.

Praying with your congregation together, is much different than sitting alone at home. There is an energy and resilience that can come from that unity. Maybe it is something some people, especially older, vulnerable people, might NEED during this stressful time.

There is no rational reason that someone should be given a ticket for sitting in their car when not getting out and endangering anyone or themselves.

Some are seeing it as religious persecution and I do understand their concerns.

It should be illegal for them to enter the church and pray together or listen to the sermon. But it should not be illegal to sit in their car and listen on the car radio. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I don't know the details but it sounds like the church broadcast on the radio, it wasn't 'open'. Congregation came in their cars and parked while listening on their radio. I don't think the pastor was giving the sermon in the car park. Sitting in your car in a car park listening to the radio appears to be an allowed pastime. But hey, we are all learning in this crazy situation.

Exactly. The sermon was on the car radio.

 

[tresir2012]

I think some governors and politicians appear to be a little power mad. MOO.

 

[otto]

There were a lot of elderly people there who do not have technology or understand it well enough to use it now.

It may seem weird to sit in a parking lot with other cars, but no different than a drive in movie, which is not weird. And the sermon was being played on the radio, so people listened to it in their cars. And they could 'congregate' with their friends and neighbours, while inside the safety of their own cars.

And it is not 'dangerous' for people to sit in their own cars and watch a movie screen of a sermon. So why should they be ticketed and fined?

It just seems like some governors are being petty and not being strategic in their rule making. JMO

I agree that it's a huge problem for the world to go digital when people lose their memories as they age and become unable to use a cell phone, or they never learned. Either way, as the population ages, communication without a cell phone should be managed or modified. I'm not suggesting tracking devices, but at a certain point with dementia people isn't it a good idea? Maybe a wrist band with speaker / microphone ?

 

[otto]

Thanks. Tested does not mean the total infected though, which is unknown, right? It is only 20% of those known and tested positive. My question was based on whether China figures were even available or reliable looking at their seemingly low death statistics.

For example, when there is an election, it doesn't matter where, within a short time after polls open the results are accurately predicted. That's the analogy I use to understand the number of cases, number of deaths, case fatality rate (mortality), and trend.

In the beginning of the virus in the USA, the mortality rate was 2.3%, just where it should be. Today it is 5.5%, twice what it should be. That tells us is that flatten-ing the curve is not working. Tested doesn't mean total infected or total deaths hastened by the virus.

Death stats (mortality) was 3.4% in China. It's much higher in other countries.



Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) – Statistics and Research

 

[tresir2012]

Are malls in lockdown and religious buildings in the same neighbourhood open? If everything (e.g.: museums, theatres, schools, parks, sports, medical appts., social visits) is understandably closed, can people use tech to get their sermon?

Was the church delivering an online sermon or closing? If tech is an issue, can someone in the congregation get it done. Which organization is supposed to respond to cars occupying a church parking lot? Is the gov't supposed to open churches in a R3 plague even though everything else is closed?

Drive in movie theatres are opening everywhere with a restriction of no more than 2 people in a car and everyone stays in their cars.

The longer we can delay getting sick, the better chance there is of a quick fix.


Per your article (infographic; attached), death rate stats indicate that death rates in the time of pandemic are unchanged from previous influenza years.

View attachment 243574

Yes I think that was the point that some of these people would die this year anyway. It could have been spread out over a longer period that is all. Keeping us in lockdown is so the death rate is spread out over that longer period of time and to prevent overwhelming the health services.

(There was a peak in early April higher than previous years).

 

[otto]

But what is the difference between a drive in movie theatre and a church parking lot?
...
JMO

Are they protestors, or attending drive-in church?
This was an example to illustrate "protestors" but now they are at the drive-in?

 

[otto]

Exactly. The sermon was on the car radio.

Why weren't they parked at a nice place instead of a parking lot?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Here’s what you need to know:

• The federal government is asked to help with testing.
• What could the year ahead look like for the U.S.?
• School cafeterias are now feeding whole families.
• How the coronavirus became a new frontier in the fight for civil rights.
• Dozens of performers join a global concert to benefit coronavirus relief.
• What it’s like when Congress works from home.
• What’s happening around the world.

Coronavirus Live Updates: Governors in U.S. Hot Spots Plea for More Testing


Here’s what you need to know:

• Politician’s funeral in Bangladesh draws 100,000, prompting fears of a new outbreak.
• Shipment of much-needed protective gear to Britain may be delayed.
• Dozens of performers join a global concert to benefit coronavirus relief.
• Netanyahu says some restrictions in Israel will be relaxed.
• U.S. doubles down in its condemnation of Hong Kong’s crackdown on democracy activists amid the pandemic.
• Malaysia is asked to stop turning away Rohingya refugees.
• In the U.S., a plea for more testing as New York and New Jersey see improvements.

Thousands in Bangladesh Defy Coronavirus Lockdown for Funeral: Live Updates

 

[otto]

Yes I think that was the point that some of these people would die this year anyway. It could have been spread out over a longer period that is all. Keeping us in lockdown is so the death rate is spread out over that longer period of time and to prevent overwhelming the health services.

(There was a peak in early April higher than previous years).

No one knows whether the child, the 19 year old student, 41 year old actor and 31 year old nurse would have died anyway this year. To think that all people who have died from the virus would have died anyway in the last 2 months does not make sense. That's why suggestions that the national per-capita death-rate post-plague has not increase cannot be true.

The deaths of 19, 31, and 41 year olds and the many whose health is permanently compromised due to virus would result in death rates spread over a longer period of decades rather than 2 months - due to some unknown pre-existing medical condition that might never have surfaced with good living.

 

[tresir2012]

Why weren't they parked at a nice place instead of a parking lot?

Why does that matter? A parking lot is for parking after all. Maybe it was a nice parking lot.

 

[tresir2012]

No one knows whether the child, the 19 year old student, 41 year old actor and 31 year old nurse would have died anyway this year. To think that all people who have died from the virus would have died anyway in the last 2 months does not make sense. That's why suggestions that the national per-capita death-rate post-plague has not increase cannot be true.

The deaths of 19, 31, and 41 year olds and the many whose health is permanently compromised due to virus would result in death rates spread over a longer period of decades rather than 2 months - due to some unknown pre-existing medical condition that might never have surfaced with good living.

That's not what the article says. In the main, 9 out of 10 who die of CV19 have a pre existing condition according to the statistics linked. So they are more susceptible to it. It's not an unknown pre-existing condition.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Today is a tragic rememberance date for our state. I was there. One of the first responders. I have terrible memories standing next to firefighters. I’m sad we won’t be able to have our annual ceremony as we have for the last twenty five years.


On April 19, 1995, a truck bomb decimated the north face of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. The blast killed 168 people, including 19 children, and injured hundreds.

A remembrance ceremony planned for Sunday at the Oklahoma City National Memorial Museum was canceled because the state is under a stay-at-home order in an attempt to stem the spread of the coronavirus. Instead, an hour-long service will be broadcast live on television networks in Oklahoma City and Tulsa as well as the museum website and Facebook page starting at 9 a.m
https://www.kansascity.com/article242079441.html

 

[jjenny]

That's not what the article says. In the main, 9 out of 10 who die of CV19 have a pre existing condition according to the statistics linked. So they are more susceptible to it. It's not an unknown pre-existing condition.

Those pre-existing conditions such as diabetes don't mean people are going to die this year. One can live for years and years with diabetes. Well into old age. Unless you get covid, of course.