Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #49

[10ofRods]

I

I disagree.

just let people die is not an appropriate answer.

that’s just my opinion though, I’m not selfish enough to want that

We have no choice. We cannot have 100% of the population stay away from this. Essential people are dying already and now our economy is crumbling and people are not going to be able to survive. Unemployment and homelessness? That will spread this disease rapidly.

How does a homeless person stay home? And how do we protect all the workers who have to go into those populations to provide services?

This is not a question where the answer is anything other than "people are going to get CV-19 in future." We do not have herd immunity. If there's never a vaccine...or one isn't invented within 18-24 months, we're going to see deaths continue to go along at the rates they're nearing right now.

What is your answer? To keep everything shut down for 2 years? It won't work. People aren't obeying it right now, there's not enough law enforcement in the US to keep everyone locked up at home for 2 years.

Or even 6 months. People are creeping back out as I type.

You can personally quarantine for as long as you like. But with death rates of virtually ZERO in the under-20 population, do they really have to give up their education? I can tell you this: without nurses and doctors in the pipeline, and with people continuing to get CV19 because there will still be nursing homes and hospitals, we are screwed.

Death rates for other causes are going to rise if doctors can't do surgeries or see patients for ongoing care for other issues or provide preventive care. We must reopen some hospitals for non-CV19 patients.

But the death rate is not going to go to zero. We just need to figure out how to keep it low. For as long as it is low, vulnerable people need to self-isolate. A vaccination will be the only hope for those of us taking that option.

This is not a question where your opinion or my opinion has any bearing. It is an empirical question of what is going to happen. As essential workers die and/or are disabled and/or quit, are we saying that ALL of us would just stay home? What then? Where would we get our food?

We are throwing away tons of food right now. Which is fine, for a short term. But if we have no fresh fruit and vegetables by next year, that increases the vaso-risk for vulnerable people. We need healthy food and lifestyles (this is not an opinion, it's a fact).

 

[Chelly]

I

I disagree.

just let people die is not an appropriate answer.

that’s just my opinion though, I’m not selfish enough to want that

Indeed. I do not want the potential to make a child, an adult or an elderly person sick. Not do I want to be in contact with someone careless enough to make me sick.

 

[tresir2012]

Well...unless we are willing to shut down for the next 20-30 years, we have no choice but to venture back out into public. The vast majority of people under age 50 will not die. Only 1% of people aged 50-65 will die. "Only." I mean, if someone tells me I have a 1% chance of getting hit by a speeding car if I step outside, I will nope right out of that one.

So, I spent my day yesterday making arrangements with my workplace for next year. I guess I will be pretty much quarantined until December. Thing is, the sooner I get this, the more likely I am to survive. I guess I can try and lose more weight (have lost 10 pounds in quarantine).

I am feeling rather depressed today at the prospect of never going anywhere again. Theoretically, a place could eliminate the virus from their immediate area (like South Korea) and just take the hit in tourism and other travel related commerce. But I live in California and we have like 40 million visitors from out of state...each year. So there will constantly be the chance of catching it until we reach herd immunity.

To do that, we need to expose 28 million Californians (or more) to CV19, with a predicted number of deaths at around 800,000. How fast do we want to do that? We obviously cannot have 28 million people sick all at once (hospitalizations would be around 1.6 million).

So we wait. More isolated counties (like Kern County) with lower rates are sort of open already and will probably slide into "regular behavior" this week. But the overall population of that area is fairly small and while they will surely see a big increase in cases/deaths, it is about 900,000 total population, so they should be able to put together resources for their new "wave." Still, we could expect a mortality rate of as many as 4500 people.

My own estimate is that the overall morality rate is closer to 0.04-0.07.

I think I'll be willing to risk going camping in the mountains, we know some obscure places we love.

If these human vaccine trials are going ahead soon then we should be hopeful. Anyone know anything about such trials? Will they give them the vaccine, then expose them/ give them the disease or how does it work?

 

[pocketaccent]

My dentist office called me today to cancel my May 7th cleaning appointment. I asked about when will the office open again and she said around mid June. Hmm.. We will see. In Southern California.

 

[CSIDreamer]

We have no choice. We cannot have 100% of the population stay away from this. Essential people are dying already and now our economy is crumbling and people are not going to be able to survive. Unemployment and homelessness? That will spread this disease rapidly.

How does a homeless person stay home? And how do we protect all the workers who have to go into those populations to provide services?

This is not a question where the answer is anything other than "people are going to get CV-19 in future." We do not have herd immunity. If there's never a vaccine...or one isn't invented within 18-24 months, we're going to see deaths continue to go along at the rates they're nearing right now.

What is your answer? To keep everything shut down for 2 years? It won't work. People aren't obeying it right now, there's not enough law enforcement in the US to keep everyone locked up at home for 2 years.

Or even 6 months. People are creeping back out as I type.

You can personally quarantine for as long as you like. But with death rates of virtually ZERO in the under-20 population, do they really have to give up their education? I can tell you this: without nurses and doctors in the pipeline, and with people continuing to get CV19 because there will still be nursing homes and hospitals, we are screwed.

Death rates for other causes are going to rise if doctors can't do surgeries or see patients for ongoing care for other issues or provide preventive care. We must reopen some hospitals for non-CV19 patients.

But the death rate is not going to go to zero. We just need to figure out how to keep it low. For as long as it is low, vulnerable people need to self-isolate. A vaccination will be the only hope for those of us taking that option.

As usual, I'm right there with you. Jmo

 

[Chelly]

I live in such a socially active hugging village and community....... this is really going to be harder than it sounds. I sense a whole new world of hip bumping.

nope, nope, nope. If you are hip-bumping, you are too close.

 

[Chelly]

Yeah, I think I will too. By one year from now, I am going to be stir crazy. We had a trip to Grand Canyon planned for April, a trip to Paris for next summer. Scrimped and saved. Have spent some of it paying for expensive groceries/delivery. And I don't know if I'll be fully employed next year or whether we'll be partly furloughed.

If it turns out I'll get more money if I retire, I'll retire, but that's a big life change for me.

Gotta do what ya gotta do.

 

[Simply Southern]

No stimulus check here, either and no response on the website. I did file electronically for the past couple of years, although I didn't use their widget. I used TurboTax, who filed it electronically for me.

I'll be very excited if we ever get it, we have some out of work family members who sure could use help.

Welcome to Fillable Forms
The above link will slow you to add to direct deposit information. Some H&R Block and Turbo tax folks are having to add the DD information.

H&R Block, TurboTax glitch may impact some stimulus checks from the IRS

One culprit could be whether they filed through tax prep services such as H&R Block or TurboTax and received tax refund anticipation loans, according to a U.S. Treasury Department spokeswoman.

That's because the IRS doesn't have direct deposit information for those taxpayers, the Treasury spokeswoman says.

 

[tresir2012]

"The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment."

"The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has has not been reviewed by other scientists."

Note that 50% of medical doctors are using hydroxychloroquine in treatment of COVID-19 at some level.

Also

"About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival."

28 + 11 + 22 = 61% so what about the other 39%? Did they recover? Lack of results here?

 

[10ofRods]

nope, nope, nope. If you are hip-bumping, you are too close.

Bowing will work. A polite nod and a smile will work. I intend to avoid energetic talkers. I will say that watching an unmasked man approach and literally breathe on the faces and down the necks of 4 other men who were waiting in line for food pick-up...really gave me pause. I was so mad. I started to get out of the car, but my DH gave me a look. He was one of the 4 men (3 were masked, including my DH).

This was the first time he felt the need to strip off his clothes the instant we came home, and he put the bag with the food in it as far from our faces as he could (it's an SUV, so no trunk). We both washed up, then he took the food out, washed up again, and we took the bag out to the trash immediately, washing up after.

SO angering - but that's how it's going to be. There's not enough LE on the planet to follow all these fnools around. The offender was an overweight 30-something.

 

[Teche]

I truly hate hearing about the blood clotting issues being discovered in Covid-19 patients. I have Factor V Leiden which is an inherited blood clotting disorder. The disorder was just discovered a little of a decade or more. I’ve seen several doctors that didn’t know about the condition. It’s easily treated by daily Lovenox injections after surgery.

 

[Chelly]

Bowing will work. A polite nod and a smile will work. I intend to avoid energetic talkers. I will say that watching an unmasked man approach and literally breathe on the faces and down the necks of 4 other men who were waiting in line for food pick-up...really gave me pause. I was so mad. I started to get out of the car, but my DH gave me a look. He was one of the 4 men (3 were masked, including my DH).

This was the first time he felt the need to strip off his clothes the instant we came home, and he put the bag with the food in it as far from our faces as he could (it's an SUV, so no trunk). We both washed up, then he took the food out, washed up again, and we took the bag out to the trash immediately, washing up after.

SO angering - but that's how it's going to be. There's not enough LE on the planet to follow all these fnools around. The offender was an overweight 30-something.

Yes. My neighbors and I have started the Namaste-bowing thing. I used to think that form of greeting was silly, but covid taught me to be open to change.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

If these human vaccine trials are going ahead soon then we should be hopeful. Anyone know anything about such trials? Will they give them the vaccine, then expose them/ give them the disease or how does it work?

Years ago when I was at university there was a medical testing unit on site, which would pay students quite a lot of money to be experimented on. There were loads on offer, I did a handful of basic non-invasive ones like topical medicines and deodorant testing (got paid over a month's rent for that one) and I knew other students who had vaccines or did pill trials, half of which were placebos.

I drew the line at £10,000 for having a big toe cut off and re-attached though! I don't know how many took that up but one of the disclaimers was that you might never walk properly again

 

[Teche]

I’m feeling rather “unstimulated”...I haven’t received my “stimulus” check yet, am I the only one? I need to go to the CARES thread and catch up/investigate. I did file for 2018 and mailed in payment (not direct deposit) but not 2019 yet. Does anyone know if they’ve physically mailed out any checks yet or what the deal is, tia.

No. We can’t even input our banking info.

 

[margarita25]

Great news!! Is it still the Stanley Brothers do you know?

I think so:

Stanley Brothers

 

[Teche]

Still waiting after updating banking information the day the site opened for this. Same for 2018 taxes

What part of the website allows one to enter the bank info.

 

[MsArk]

I’m feeling rather “unstimulated”...I haven’t received my “stimulus” check yet, am I the only one? I need to go to the CARES thread and catch up/investigate. I did file for 2018 and mailed in payment (not direct deposit) but not 2019 yet. Does anyone know if they’ve physically mailed out any checks yet or what the deal is, tia.

I’m right there with you. I owed a great big $4 last year so no direct deposit information for me either.

According to this article checks will begin mailing 4/25 but it could be months before it is completed.

When Are Paper Stimulus Checks Being Mailed?

I just remind myself it won’t be bad to get a $1,200 check in August.

 

[margarita25]

Colorado coronavirus latest, April 21: 34 Colorado healthcare workers sent to N.J. to help with COVID-19 response

“Centura Health sending local health care workers to help areas hit hard by COVID

Thirty-four caregivers with Centura Health boarded a flight from Denver International Airport (DIA) to New Jersey on Tuesday to help three communities hit hard by COVID-19. The caregivers were assembled from multiple Colorado-based Centura facilities. The three facilities they will help out at are:

• Trinitas Regional Medical Center in Elizabeth, New Jersey
• St. Joseph's Health, Patterson and Wayne campuses, New Jersey
• Saint Peter's Healthcare System in New Brunswick, New Jersey.

The New Jersey region is currently in great need for experienced caregivers to serve temporarily on the frontlines during the pandemic as more than 85,000 positive cases and nearly 7,000 hospitalizations have been reported across the state.

—

Photo by: Centura Health.
Colorado School of Mines students helping with PPE 3D printing

—

“Students at the Colorado School of Mines are joining on the statewide effort to provide personal protective equiptment (PPE) to local healthcare providers on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic.”

[...]

“Colorado awarded $2 million grant for behavioral health crisis services during COVID-19

The Colorado Department of Human Services Office of Behavioral Health (OBH) has recieved a $2 million grant by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) to help with health crisis services during the COVID-19 pandemic.”

 

[Sundog]

Just released NIH treatment guidelines for COVID-19 - (1) media article below, (2) NIH announcement on guidelines' release, and (3) link to the actual guidelines, below.

NIH treatment guidelines for COVID-19 developed by expert panel


Expert U.S. panel develops NIH treatment guidelines for COVID-19


Guidelines Introduction | Coronavirus Disease COVID-19

 

[tresir2012]

We have no choice. We cannot have 100% of the population stay away from this. Essential people are dying already and now our economy is crumbling and people are not going to be able to survive. Unemployment and homelessness? That will spread this disease rapidly.

How does a homeless person stay home? And how do we protect all the workers who have to go into those populations to provide services?

This is not a question where the answer is anything other than "people are going to get CV-19 in future." We do not have herd immunity. If there's never a vaccine...or one isn't invented within 18-24 months, we're going to see deaths continue to go along at the rates they're nearing right now.

What is your answer? To keep everything shut down for 2 years? It won't work. People aren't obeying it right now, there's not enough law enforcement in the US to keep everyone locked up at home for 2 years.

Or even 6 months. People are creeping back out as I type.

You can personally quarantine for as long as you like. But with death rates of virtually ZERO in the under-20 population, do they really have to give up their education? I can tell you this: without nurses and doctors in the pipeline, and with people continuing to get CV19 because there will still be nursing homes and hospitals, we are screwed.

Death rates for other causes are going to rise if doctors can't do surgeries or see patients for ongoing care for other issues or provide preventive care. We must reopen some hospitals for non-CV19 patients.

But the death rate is not going to go to zero. We just need to figure out how to keep it low. For as long as it is low, vulnerable people need to self-isolate. A vaccination will be the only hope for those of us taking that option.

This is not a question where your opinion or my opinion has any bearing. It is an empirical question of what is going to happen. As essential workers die and/or are disabled and/or quit, are we saying that ALL of us would just stay home? What then? Where would we get our food?

We are throwing away tons of food right now. Which is fine, for a short term. But if we have no fresh fruit and vegetables by next year, that increases the vaso-risk for vulnerable people. We need healthy food and lifestyles (this is not an opinion, it's a fact).

The answer is what we were doing initially before lockdown. Elderly and vulnerable to stay home and be shielded by relatives and carers. Sadly in the nursing homes that does not seem to have happened and the virus has just ran rife. That is the real tragedy and those figures have not been fully disclosed yet only hinted at so far.

I think governments are getting on top of it in the community and our own health is literally in our own hands, as it were.

While we are on hand washing I want to recommend a product call Hibiscrub. This is a pink product used by surgeons and vets to wash and scrub up prior to surgery and for patient cleaning preparation. I have had it in my cupboard for years and get it from the vet or pet suppliers - I dilite it and use it for cleaning my hands and animal wounds. One of the active ingredients is chlorhexidine gluconate and you only need a teaspoonful to effectively wash and disinfect your hands. That ingredient is also what is in some antiseptic mouthwashes. I have only just realised that I have this product in my cupboard already so am passing on the tip.

Hibiscrub Antimicrobial Skin Cleanser Solution 500ml Chlorhexidine 4%

It is normally about £4 or £5 not the price shown here but I checked Amazon and they are currently out of stock. I keep this for emergencies like cuts or bites. Normal soap and water for when skin is not broken. You can probably find an alternative at local pet stores.