Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #81

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It was wrong because no patient should be allowed to leave a hospital without being signed out or discharged.

It was wrong and a slap in the face to the millions of families that have loved ones in hospitals right now fighting the disease. I'm sorry, but there is no way to justify Trump's joyride trip around the block while being a patient in the hospital.
That is your opinion and others may disagree.

He did have the approval of his doctor, so he was signed out.

Plenty of patients leave and then return, for various reasons. It is not that cut and dry.

I don't understand why it is a slap in the face to families with CV patients in the hospital. How does it harm them in any way? Who is slapping them and why?
 
It was wrong because no patient should be allowed to leave a hospital without being signed out or discharged.

It was wrong and a slap in the face to the millions of families that have loved ones in hospitals right now fighting the disease. I'm sorry, but there is no way to justify Trump's joyride trip around the block while being a patient in the hospital.

These are personal opinions, and we don't all agree on this.
 
It was wrong because no patient should be allowed to leave a hospital without being signed out or discharged.

It was wrong and a slap in the face to the millions of families that have loved ones in hospitals right now fighting the disease. I'm sorry, but there is no way to justify Trump's joyride trip around the block while being a patient in the hospital.

From a medical stand this was not a good decision. The leader of the world has a communicable disease, possibly fatal. He is hospitalized, being monitore 24/7 heart/oxygen. How is monitoring happening inside a vehicle?
 
These are personal opinions, and we don't all agree on this.
Seems the secret service doesn't agree either:
"That should never have happened," one current Secret Service agent who works on the presidential and first family detail said after Trump's drive-by, adding that those agents who went along for the ride would now be required to quarantine.
Inside Trump's Walter Reed parade - CNNPolitics
 
That is your opinion and others may disagree.

He did have the approval of his doctor, so he was signed out.

Plenty of patients leave and then return, for various reasons. It is not that cut and dry.

I don't understand why it is a slap in the face to families with CV patients in the hospital. How does it harm them in any way? Who is slapping them and why?

It IS a slap-in-the-face to ALL who have to die alone, or live in total isolation if they get this disease. It is a slap in the face to all their loved ones too.

My guess is that you have not had close contact with the extremely sad and lonely elders that are isolated in the final days of their lives, because they can be with NOBODY.

This is what one of my good friends wrote, when her mother died from covid....

Moments of pain and indecision.
It should not have been a surprise to us that my mother would not survive coronavirus. But the reality of that does not hit home until it is time to make decisions about medical care that you know will ultimately lead to your mother’s death. We went from "no code and no intubation” to “comfort care”, then stopping the high flow oxygen and downgrading to just oxygen by nasal cannula. Next, a morphine drip to make her less fearful and pain free while she is passing. These are all decisions.
Every day a new decision. It is exhausting. And then you ask yourself, who am I to decide when my mother should die? How much time should I have given the medical team to get her better. Of course, they think it is hopeless. After all, she will be 89 in 2 months. But they don’t know how tough she is. What a fighter she is. After all she lived through WWII when the allies carpet bombed her home in Frankfurt ,Germany, and through many hardships as an adult. So maybe she can last long enough for her immune system to kill this virus.
But then she is on the phone, crying, “they tied down my arms, my throat is so dry, it’s impossible to rest with the oxygen in my nose forcing air in.” Then she calls and says there are constant blood tests and restarting IV’s that have infiltrated and she has no veins. I am too weak to endure it. I call the doctors and ask what are her chances of beating this virus and they say, as expected, none. So I ask why are we torturing this poor soul and they say, it is my choice. What would I have them do. First, I say, untie her hands! Then she will pull out her IVs and maybe her oxygen tubing, they say. I say, if she will die anyway, then why does that matter? So the tubes came out and the ties were taken off. She is better. Things are calmer and she is resting.
The next day the high flow oxygen mask was removed. We thought that would be the end. The family members had steeled themselves for the end. But she rallied once again. Since she seemed stable, there was a plan put into place to move her to a nearby hospice facility. She would be more comfortable there and get more personalized care. It sounded like a good plan. We were not allowed to see her anywhere, so it was all about decisions that were best for her.
Finally after a huge stack of paperwork was filled out, she was transferred by ambulance to the hospice facility. Her morphine drip kept her drowsy and comfortable. About 3 hours after her transfer, she stopped breathing and peacefully slipped away. I didn’t get the message until the next morning.
I was suddenly dazed and numb. I knew it was going to be soon, but still a shock. My mother was gone. My thorny, needy, and sometimes manipulative mother was gone. But still she was my mother. I had cared for her for years. I paid her bills, cleaned her house, bought her clothes, took her to appointments and found ways to entertain her. There were happy times, but less and less over the last few years. She blamed me for putting her into a nursing home. This was more or less true, but I never abandoned her. It was a decision forced on me. It was apparent to everyone, that she could not live alone.
She died on August 29, 2020 at 9:30pm. I will miss her and I will always worry that I did not give her a fighting chance against the virus, but instead took the cowards way out for her and me, by making the decision to withdraw care.
Those are the hard choices which we must make during this era of the coronavirus.
 
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These are the messages that make people lax in their views of helping each other survive this disease.
Really, we are defending the ride outside BECAUSE there was glass between the seats.

I see it as a slap-in-the-face to every person restricted from having ANY loved one near them when in hospital, in long term care or even at home.

Why do we continue to excuse behavior, when it is just so unfair to others..........

And then we wonder why the whole world thinks we are ALL crazy here in the US, thinking most of us just dismiss our 7,500,000 cases.......
The President is not supposed to take a ride, to show that he was feeling strong and better, because most people cannot have visitors when they have Covid?

I disagree because the POTUS is not 'most people.' Obviously he has options and choices and privileges that come with the presidency. And RESPONSIBILITIES that come with the Presidency--which include assuring the masses that he is doing well physically right now.

I think that little ride was important, especially because of the many rumours by his detractors that he ws actually deathly ill.

I think the glass partition is very important when deciding if this ride was dangerous to the agents up front. I bet it was a big factor in the doctor allowing it to happen.

JMO

PS---the 'whole world' does not think we are all crazy here. I think the world is just as divided as the country is. Half the nation thinks he was irresponsible and selfish and the other half applauds him and thinks it was fantastic for him to think of his supporters like that.

I imagine the world feels similarly, half outraged, half inspired by him. JMO
 
The President is not supposed to take a ride, to show that he was feeling strong and better, because most people cannot have visitors when they have Covid?

I disagree because the POTUS is not 'most people.' Obviously he has options and choices and privileges that come with the presidency. And RESPONSIBILITIES that come with the Presidency--which include assuring the masses that he is doing well physically right now.

I think that little ride was important, especially because of the many rumours by his detractors that he ws actually deathly ill.

I think the glass partition is very important when deciding if this ride was dangerous to the agents up front. I bet it was a big factor in the doctor allowing it to happen.

JMO

PS---the 'whole world' does not think we are all crazy here. I think the world is just as divided as the country is. Half the nation thinks he was irresponsible and selfish and the other half applauds him and thinks it was fantastic for him to think of his supporters like that.

I imagine the world feels similarly, half outraged, half inspired by him. JMO

There was an inside photo op so he must have had one visitor to take the picture.
 
From a medical stand this was not a good decision. The leader of the world has a communicable disease, possibly fatal. He is hospitalized, being monitore 24/7 heart/oxygen. How is monitoring happening inside a vehicle?

I haven't seen the heart monitor 24/7 reference. Link please.
 
The President is not supposed to take a ride, to show that he was feeling strong and better, because most people cannot have visitors when they have Covid?

I disagree because the POTUS is not 'most people.' Obviously he has options and choices and privileges that come with the presidency. And RESPONSIBILITIES that come with the Presidency--which include assuring the masses that he is doing well physically right now.

I think that little ride was important, especially because of the many rumours by his detractors that he ws actually deathly ill.

I think the glass partition is very important when deciding if this ride was dangerous to the agents up front. I bet it was a big factor in the doctor allowing it to happen.

JMO

PS---the 'whole world' does not think we are all crazy here. I think the world is just as divided as the country is. Half the nation thinks he was irresponsible and selfish and the other half applauds him and thinks it was fantastic for him to think of his supporters like that.

I imagine the world feels similarly, half outraged, half inspired by him. JMO
Did he not assure everyone he was okay with two photos of him sitting at a table re: Walter Reed plus his speech?
 
I haven't seen the heart monitor 24/7 reference. Link please.
Hospital patients have a BP and heart monitor. Unheard of not to have this if you are an inpatient, especially the President. Having been hospitalized approximately 12 times, seriously, I can attest to monitors. How else would it be known if his BP drops or his heart rate isn't normal?
 
RSBM

I don't understand why it is a slap in the face to families with CV patients in the hospital. How does it harm them in any way? Who is slapping them and why?

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of the language being used by the OP? (The OP, @JerseyGirl, can correct me if I am wrong)

For those not familiar with the terminology (at least here in the US)....For those that aren't familiar with the terminology, "Slap in the face" is not literal harm. MOO (you can google also the term)

If you describe something that someone does as a slap in the face, you mean that it shocks or upsets you because it shows that they do not support you or respect you.
 
It IS a slap-in-the-face to ALL who have to die alone, or live in total isolation if they get this disease. It is a slap in the face to all their loved ones too.

My guess is that you have not had close contact with the extremely sad and lonely elders that are isolated in the final days of their lives, because they can be with NOBODY.

This is what one of my good friends wrote, when her mother died from covid....

Moments of pain and indecision.
It should not have been a surprise to us that my mother would not survive coronavirus. But the reality of that does not hit home until it is time to make decisions about medical care that you know will ultimately lead to your mother’s death. We went from "no code and no intubation” to “comfort care”, then stopping the high flow oxygen and downgrading to just oxygen by nasal cannula. Next, a morphine drip to make her less fearful and pain free while she is passing. These are all decisions.
Every day a new decision. It is exhausting. And then you ask yourself, who am I to decide when my mother should die? How much time should I have given the medical team to get her better. Of course, they think it is hopeless. After all, she will be 89 in 2 months. But they don’t know how tough she is. What a fighter she is. After all she lived through WWII when the allies carpet bombed her home in Frankfurt ,Germany, and through many hardships as an adult. So maybe she can last long enough for her immune system to kill this virus.
But then she is on the phone, crying, “they tied down my arms, my throat is so dry, it’s impossible to rest with the oxygen in my nose forcing air in.” Then she calls and says there are constant blood tests and restarting IV’s that have infiltrated and she has no veins. I am too weak to endure it. I call the doctors and ask what are her chances of beating this virus and they say, as expected, none. So I ask why are we torturing this poor soul and they say, it is my choice. What would I have them do. First, I say, untie her hands! Then she will pull out her IVs and maybe her oxygen tubing, they say. I say, if she will die anyway, then why does that matter? So the tubes came out and the ties were taken off. She is better. Things are calmer and she is resting.
The next day the high flow oxygen mask was removed. We thought that would be the end. The family members had steeled themselves for the end. But she rallied once again. Since she seemed stable, there was a plan put into place to move her to a nearby hospice facility. She would be more comfortable there and get more personalized care. It sounded like a good plan. We were not allowed to see her anywhere, so it was all about decisions that were best for her.
Finally after a huge stack of paperwork was filled out, she was transferred by ambulance to the hospice facility. Her morphine drip kept her drowsy and comfortable. About 3 hours after her transfer, she stopped breathing and peacefully slipped away. I didn’t get the message until the next morning.
I was suddenly dazed and numb. I knew it was going to be soon, but still a shock. My mother was gone. My thorny, needy, and sometimes manipulative mother was gone. But still she was my mother. I had cared for her for years. I paid her bills, cleaned her house, bought her clothes, took her to appointments and found ways to entertain her. There were happy times, but less and less over the last few years. She blamed me for putting her into a nursing home. This was more or less true, but I never abandoned her. It was a decision forced on me. It was apparent to everyone, that she could not live alone.
She died on August 29, 2020 at 9:30pm. I will miss her and I will always worry that I did not give her a fighting chance against the virus, but instead took the cowards way out for her and me, by making the decision to withdraw care.
Those are the hard choices which we must make during this era of the coronavirus.
I remember reading this very sad post earlier. It is tragic that she had to endure that. I remember the letter because my 89 yr old mother is on lock down in her senior living complex.

I actually got kicked out of her home there on March 12th, because it was going on lockdown. She has not had any visitors yet, since that day because they are not allowing anyone in.

Your letter is tragic. But I don't see how that translates to President Trump slapping them in the face. IMO, he has a responsibility to keep the citizens informed as to his current condition.

Driving past the crowd and waving and sending them hundreds of pizzas does just that. It does more than just having a doctor in a lab coat speaking to the press, which usually just brings forth more questions and concerns.

I thought Trumps drive by was encouraging and inspiring. I know a lot of people who feel the same way. I don't personally know anyone who felt it was a slap to anyone's face. It certainly was not meant to be a slap in any way.

It is a true tragedy that so many people have had to endure this horrible virus on their own in the hospitals, in order to prevent it spreading further. It is horrid to imagine how lonely that must be.

My mom assures me she is not lonely and she understands why she is on lockdown, but I know it pains her that she has not seen her great grandchildren since Christmas. She has even wondered out loud if she will ever see them again...:(

This pandemic and lockdown and ensuing financial crisis, and growing death toll is hard to fathom. We are all on edge and things are volatile. I do think we should try to see things in a balanced and objective way, whenever possible. And maybe we can learn to see things from each other's perspectives, to try and unify if at all possible...:oops:
 
I am sorry, but this doctor sounds unhinged when he says:

“Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential 'drive-by' just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity..."

HYPERBOLE?
...respectfully snipped...

It is hyperbole, and from what I can tell, this doctor may be someone's attending physician, but I don't think he's Trump's attending physician.

In fact, he appears to be a lecturer at George Washington University, rather than a practicing physician. Sometimes, it seems as though one media outlet will print something false and then tons of outlets reprint it. It didn't seem like something one of Trump's attending physicians would say, so I did a little research and to be sure, the good doctor is not, in fact, the attending physician.

Leadership | The Office of Student Opportunities
 
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of the language being used by the OP? (The OP, @JerseyGirl, can correct me if I am wrong)

For those not familiar with the terminology (at least here in the US)....For those that aren't familiar with the terminology, "Slap in the face" is not literal harm. MOO (you can google also the term)

If you describe something that someone does as a slap in the face, you mean that it shocks or upsets you because it shows that they do not support you or respect you.
Thank you for the clarification. I apologise if I made it appear that I did not understand the terminology. I was trying to be more specific about 'who' was being disrespected and by whom.
 
It IS a slap-in-the-face to ALL who have to die alone, or live in total isolation if they get this disease. It is a slap in the face to all their loved ones too.

My guess is that you have not had close contact with the extremely sad and lonely elders that are isolated in the final days of their lives, because they can be with NOBODY.

This is what one of my good friends wrote, when her mother died from covid....

Moments of pain and indecision.
It should not have been a surprise to us that my mother would not survive coronavirus. But the reality of that does not hit home until it is time to make decisions about medical care that you know will ultimately lead to your mother’s death. We went from "no code and no intubation” to “comfort care”, then stopping the high flow oxygen and downgrading to just oxygen by nasal cannula. Next, a morphine drip to make her less fearful and pain free while she is passing. These are all decisions.
Every day a new decision. It is exhausting. And then you ask yourself, who am I to decide when my mother should die? How much time should I have given the medical team to get her better. Of course, they think it is hopeless. After all, she will be 89 in 2 months. But they don’t know how tough she is. What a fighter she is. After all she lived through WWII when the allies carpet bombed her home in Frankfurt ,Germany, and through many hardships as an adult. So maybe she can last long enough for her immune system to kill this virus.
But then she is on the phone, crying, “they tied down my arms, my throat is so dry, it’s impossible to rest with the oxygen in my nose forcing air in.” Then she calls and says there are constant blood tests and restarting IV’s that have infiltrated and she has no veins. I am too weak to endure it. I call the doctors and ask what are her chances of beating this virus and they say, as expected, none. So I ask why are we torturing this poor soul and they say, it is my choice. What would I have them do. First, I say, untie her hands! Then she will pull out her IVs and maybe her oxygen tubing, they say. I say, if she will die anyway, then why does that matter? So the tubes came out and the ties were taken off. She is better. Things are calmer and she is resting.
The next day the high flow oxygen mask was removed. We thought that would be the end. The family members had steeled themselves for the end. But she rallied once again. Since she seemed stable, there was a plan put into place to move her to a nearby hospice facility. She would be more comfortable there and get more personalized care. It sounded like a good plan. We were not allowed to see her anywhere, so it was all about decisions that were best for her.
Finally after a huge stack of paperwork was filled out, she was transferred by ambulance to the hospice facility. Her morphine drip kept her drowsy and comfortable. About 3 hours after her transfer, she stopped breathing and peacefully slipped away. I didn’t get the message until the next morning.
I was suddenly dazed and numb. I knew it was going to be soon, but still a shock. My mother was gone. My thorny, needy, and sometimes manipulative mother was gone. But still she was my mother. I had cared for her for years. I paid her bills, cleaned her house, bought her clothes, took her to appointments and found ways to entertain her. There were happy times, but less and less over the last few years. She blamed me for putting her into a nursing home. This was more or less true, but I never abandoned her. It was a decision forced on me. It was apparent to everyone, that she could not live alone.
She died on August 29, 2020 at 9:30pm. I will miss her and I will always worry that I did not give her a fighting chance against the virus, but instead took the cowards way out for her and me, by making the decision to withdraw care.
Those are the hard choices which we must make during this era of the coronavirus.

So moving and eloquent, thank you for sharing... sharing my tears WITH you. I see that you also truly get what the term "slap in the face" means.
 
“Zverev is up to date on his tests, which have all been negative. His last test was on September 29, with results received on September 30. Today he received a reminder for his next test, to be carried out within 5 days of the previous results. He did not consult the tournament doctors before his match."
He tested on the 29th, results on the 30th and he was to test again WITHIN 5 days.
Which would have before the match?
It appears he was not ignorant of Covid since both his parents has tested positive very recently. He deliberately played sick.
JMO
Why would he do this, especially if he did not feel well? Money?
 
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