Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #83

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Are parents of young children going to say "yeah, lets have my children get herd immunity"
Surreal.

The White House has embraced a declaration by a group of scientists arguing that authorities should allow the coronavirus to spread among young healthy people while protecting the elderly and the vulnerable — an approach that would rely on arriving at “herd immunity” through infections rather than a vaccine.

Many experts say “herd immunity” — the point at which a disease stops spreading because nearly everyone in a population has contracted it — is still very far-off. Leading experts have concluded, using different scientific methods, that about 85 to 90 percent of the American population is still susceptible to the coronavirus

White House Embraces Covid-19 ‘Herd Immunity’ Declaration
 
nhmemorymaker said:
We are just so bad here in FL... we are all concerned that our governor is also secretly buying into the erroneous and horribly flawed herd immunity theory...

Positivity: According to Johns Hopkins University, Florida’s positivity rate Tuesday was 11.74 percent.

Florida adds 2,725 coronavirus cases, 123 deaths Tuesday
Click to expand...

It doesn’t help you all that every Tom, Dick, and Harrieta is running down there on vacation. I never cease to be amazed at the "Vaca in Florida!" pictures I see. JMO
 
astheworldfallsdown said:
Covid in Scotland: 15 deaths recorded in past 24 hours - BBC News

  • The first minister strongly urges Scots not to travel to Blackpool for a break
  • Trips to Blackpool are now associated with a large and growing number of cases of Covid-19 in Scotland
  • She warns in particular against football fans travelling there to watch the Old Firm game in a pub
  • The first minister also warns people who have already booked to go to Blackpool to take extra care on coaches and avoid being inside to much
  • Sturgeon also backs calls for travel restrictions where necessary from high prevalence to low prevalence areas within the UK
  • In general she says: "Think very carefully about whether you need to travel at all"
  • The FM will give a video statement to MSPs on a review of household visiting rules tomorrow
Click to expand...

Yesterday Dr. Campbell Youtube video spoke to Japan and why they had seroconversions yet so little cases. He pointed out culturally folks on mass transit always wore masks, and DID NOT TALK on mass transit. Ha! Imagine mass transporting of fans on coaches to and from a game. Lots of expelling!

ETA: Link!
 
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dixiegirl1035 said:
Today's Dr. Campbell video - Europe and UK focus, additionally Israel and other.

He starts out with "not good news" 23 minute video for those that have time, and summary underneath. As worldwide, the CRF and IFR is lowering as the disease has picked the "low hanging fruit"

Click to expand...

It's nice to have the summary and interesting to read the comments on YouTube. The first comment is my favorite: "As a Cornishman i think i'm qualified to say that a pasty is a substantial meal only if it exceeds the size of your foot." :D
 
nhmemorymaker said:
Are parents of young children going to say "yeah, lets have my children get herd immunity"
Surreal.

The White House has embraced a declaration by a group of scientists arguing that authorities should allow the coronavirus to spread among young healthy people while protecting the elderly and the vulnerable — an approach that would rely on arriving at “herd immunity” through infections rather than a vaccine.

Many experts say “herd immunity” — the point at which a disease stops spreading because nearly everyone in a population has contracted it — is still very far-off. Leading experts have concluded, using different scientific methods, that about 85 to 90 percent of the American population is still susceptible to the coronavirus

White House Embraces Covid-19 ‘Herd Immunity’ Declaration
Click to expand...
They are never going to achieve natural herd immunity when infection only confers 3-4 months immunity. How is that hard to understand? We were never able to achieve natural herd immunity with agents such as smallpox, measles, polio and many more even though infection with those agents generally confers immunity for life. There is always an endless supply of naive hosts. For hundreds of years.

I realize the White House is populated by lawyers and political science majors, but these are pretty basic concepts and easy to understand. jmo

ETA:

Health experts say the cost in human life is too high to pursue this strategy, and Ilboudo noted there are no examples of community immunity to any pandemic viral infectious diseases without a vaccine.

“We have not achieved any herd immunity through a natural disease process to most major infectious diseases that affect the population to this scale,” she said. “All of the major infections I know of have required vaccination.”

COVID-19 Vaccine Key to Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’
 
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A thought I've started to have... if folks do get the Ab treatments like Trump did, and they are successful if given at the very outset, will it allow enough viral load to give *more* immunity.. or will it knock the virus down so much that ?*a threshold*? is even reached for immunity?

In other words, is there a critical threshold for having longer immunity or much at all? Is it all or nothing as to protective immune response?

It seems that at THIS moment in time, it could be like the flu where a low viral load causes milder disease..

oh, I could go on and on... so just keeping heads up to learn such.

There is just so so much to learn.

MOO
 
nhmemorymaker said:
Are parents of young children going to say "yeah, lets have my children get herd immunity"
Surreal.

The White House has embraced a declaration by a group of scientists arguing that authorities should allow the coronavirus to spread among young healthy people while protecting the elderly and the vulnerable — an approach that would rely on arriving at “herd immunity” through infections rather than a vaccine.

Many experts say “herd immunity” — the point at which a disease stops spreading because nearly everyone in a population has contracted it — is still very far-off. Leading experts have concluded, using different scientific methods, that about 85 to 90 percent of the American population is still susceptible to the coronavirus

White House Embraces Covid-19 ‘Herd Immunity’ Declaration
Click to expand...

This MSM headline and article is misleading, as usual, on two counts. First, it suggests that the Barrington Declaration advocates for herd immunity, but it does not. Rather, the Barrington Declaration advocates for "focused protection" rather than wholesale lockdowns as a pubic health approach. It is similar to what WHO recommend recently regarding lockdowns and how they are often inadvisable for the overall well-being of society. The Barrington Declaration states that we should practice focused protection and other mitigation strategies UNTIL herd immunity is reached through vaccine and natural infection. Nowhere in the Barrington Declaration is their any advocacy for herd immunity.

Secondly, the headline and article is misleading in that it suggests that the White House embraces herd immunity, but that is not the case. There is no link provided that suggests that, and I have never seen the WH Task Force or its spokespersons advocate for herd immunity, in fact since MSM has been trying to suggest this recently, I have seen interviews with WH advisers who strongly speak against herd immunity, but support the focused protection model in relation to total lockdowns.

ETA Link below to the "focused protection" model for public health that is advocated by the Barrington Declaration (read for yourself), similar to WHO's statement recently regarding the impact of lockdowns on the overall well being of society

Great Barrington Declaration – An open letter and declaration from public health academics and professionals
 
Last edited:
dixiegirl1035 said:
A thought I've started to have... if folks do get the Ab treatments like Trump did, and they are successful if given at the very outset, will it allow enough viral load to give *more* immunity.. or will it knock the virus down so much that ?*a threshold*? is even reached for immunity?

In other words, is there a critical threshold for having longer immunity or much at all? Is it all or nothing as to protective immune response?

It seems that at THIS moment in time, it could be like the flu where a low viral load causes milder disease..

oh, I could go on and on... so just keeping heads up to learn such.

There is just so so much to learn.

MOO
Click to expand...
I've wondered this about Ab's as well. They are transient and do not teach the immune system anything, nor do they confer any memory. They might save your butt during your current infection, but what is the impact down the line when you scale down the body's natural immune system campaign?

So many questions.
 
I just want to cry. Results for the 5th round of testing done for the REALM project are in. Note that these items were not stacked, which means they had exposure to air and light.

Results show that after eight days of quarantine, SARS-CoV-2 virus was still detected on leather and synthetic leather materials. For the polyolefin fabric and nylon webbing, only the amount of virus after the initial 1 hour of drying time could be measured. No data for the cotton fabric could be collected or reported.

REALM project - Research | OCLC

You can look at all 5 rounds, which tested various materials used in libraries and museums.
 
Another coronavirus vaccine trial halted for safety concerns

Eli Lilly paused its antibody treatment trial after a potential safety concern, meanwhile cases and hospitalizations have risen in over half the U.S.

This comes as 34 states report an increase in cases and cities see new clusters linked to super-spreader events.

"There are people that are going to be re-infected and some people will be re-infected and be sicker the second time around"

2:35

 
Last edited:
CSIDreamer said:
It doesn’t help you all that every Tom, Dick, and Harrieta is running down there on vacation. I never cease to be amazed at the "Vaca in Florida!" pictures I see. JMO
Click to expand...

yeah....every day....all the license plates from everywhere are a dead giveaway.

ewww. maybe I should not use the phrase "dead giveaway"
 
nhmemorymaker said:
We are just so bad here in FL... we are all concerned that our governor is also secretly buying into the erroneous and horribly flawed herd immunity theory...

Positivity: According to Johns Hopkins University, Florida’s positivity rate Tuesday was 11.74 percent.

Florida adds 2,725 coronavirus cases, 123 deaths Tuesday
Click to expand...

My daughter lives in Florida. She said Floridians are going about their business as if the virus doesn't exist and have the mentality that if they get it, they get it. There is no stopping them from dining, drinking, and partying. She went to a dinner party, someone there later tested positive so out of peace of mind she went to get tested, turns out she tested negative (this time).

Bottom line, according to her, there is no such thing as contact tracing, mask wearing, or social distancing going on in South Florida.

Here in New Jersey, you can't go anywhere without a mask, even outside. My co-worker's daughter's school had someone get the virus, so my co-worker and her entire family is now on 2 week home confinement (cannot come into work).
 
cass523 said:
Another coronavirus vaccine trial halted for safety concerns

Eli Lilly paused its antibody treatment trial after a potential safety concern, meanwhile cases and hospitalizations have risen in over half the U.S.

This comes as 34 states report an increase in cases and cities see new clusters linked to super-spreader events.

"There are people that are going to be re-infected and some people will be re-infected and be sicker the second time around"

2:35

Click to expand...
They really should change that headline. This is not a vaccine trial. It is an antibody cocktail, similar to the one given President Trump made by Regeneron.
 
Sundog said:
This MSM headline and article is misleading, as usual, on two counts. First, it suggests that the Barrington Declaration advocates for herd immunity, but it does not. Rather, the Barrington Declaration advocates for "focused protection" rather than wholesale lockdowns as a pubic health approach. It is similar to what WHO recommend recently regarding lockdowns and how they are often inadvisable for the overall well-being of society. The Barrington Declaration states that we should practice focused protection and other mitigation strategies UNTIL herd immunity is reached through vaccine and natural infection. Nowhere in the Barrington Declaration is their any advocacy for herd immunity.

Secondly, the headline and article is misleading in that it suggests that the White House embraces herd immunity, but that is not the case. There is no link provided that suggests that, and I have never seen the WH Task Force or its spokespersons advocate for herd immunity, in fact since MSM has been trying to suggest this recently, I have seen interviews with WH advisers who strongly speak against herd immunity, but support the focused protection model in relation to total lockdowns.

ETA Link below to the "focused protection" model for public health that is advocated by the Barrington Declaration (read for yourself), similar to WHO's statement recently regarding the impact of lockdowns on the overall well being of society

Great Barrington Declaration – An open letter and declaration from public health academics and professionals
Click to expand...

I worry about the education level and seriousness of some of the minds behind the letter:

An open letter that made headlines calling for a herd immunity approach to Covid-19 lists a number of apparently fake names among its expert signatories, including “Dr Johnny Bananas” and “Professor Cominic Dummings”.

The Great Barrington declaration, which was said to have been signed by more than 15,000 scientists and medical practitioners around the world, was found by Sky News to contain numerous false names, as well as those of several homeopaths.

Others listed include a resident at the “university of your mum” and another supposed specialist whose name was the first verse of the Macarena.
 
Sundog said:
This MSM headline and article is misleading, as usual, on two counts. First, it suggests that the Barrington Declaration advocates for herd immunity, but it does not. Rather, the Barrington Declaration advocates for "focused protection" rather than wholesale lockdowns as a pubic health approach. It is similar to what WHO recommend recently regarding lockdowns and how they are often inadvisable for the overall well-being of society. The Barrington Declaration states that we should practice focused protection and other mitigation strategies UNTIL herd immunity is reached through vaccine and natural infection. Nowhere in the Barrington Declaration is their any advocacy for herd immunity.

Secondly, the headline and article is misleading in that it suggests that the White House embraces herd immunity, but that is not the case. There is no link provided that suggests that, and I have never seen the WH Task Force or its spokespersons advocate for herd immunity, in fact since MSM has been trying to suggest this recently, I have seen interviews with WH advisers who strongly speak against herd immunity, but support the focused protection model in relation to total lockdowns.

ETA Link below to the "focused protection" model for public health that is advocated by the Barrington Declaration (read for yourself), similar to WHO's statement recently regarding the impact of lockdowns on the overall well being of society

Great Barrington Declaration – An open letter and declaration from public health academics and professionals
Click to expand...
Ummmm......from your link:

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.

Great Barrington Declaration – An open letter and declaration from public health academics and professionals
 
How Long Will Immunity To The Coronavirus Last?

It finds that 90% of those people had antibody responses that lasted at least three months. And these antibodies neutralized the virus, at least in the lab.

"It's reasonable to assume that there will be protection for a time frame of one to three years.," says Florian Krammer, one of the scientists on that study. "But of course, we are scientists. We have to prove that, right? That's why everyone's cautious about it. But I think that's a pretty fair assumption."

How Long Will Immunity To The Coronavirus Last?
 
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