Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death #2

[gazelletime]

FTFY. :crazy:

We need to search for "Freemen" Groups near Pensacola... I think this is what they are referred to as....

 

[passionflower]

When You Copyright Your Name, You Become A Sovereign. You Are No Longer A U.S. Citizen. You Are A National Sovereign. It Is What People Do To Escape Punishment From U.S. Law.

never knew that.............
and why do you copywrite a name?
like when CAYLEE was copywrited so no one could use it but the A's????
Did the Billings do this? Where they trying to?

 

[mikeysmommom]

i searched under Paul Robinson and his page came up - it could be grasping but the locations all make sense. Honestly, after looking at friends and friends of friends - his status was changed that his friends were locked up on the day they were takin into custody if I am not mistaken - but maybe my brain is sooo fried! In any case this whole scenario/crime is a stretch is what this case is, so I am willing to throw it out there. It's okay if you don't agree, we are all allowed different opinions I am always willing and open to change my angle at any time -- heck I see 10 different ones at the moment!

Only 10 LOL No your right I saw it too.Even with finally getting sleep my brain still is not recovered.This is the most complex thing I have ever seen .As soon as I am back to full function I will try to decipher those #$%%# deeds.

 

[passionflower]

could a person avoid paying taxes when not a citizen ????

 

[moonuniti]

I REALLY think this was possibly what the Billings were attempting!

It's pretty classic. (See my above post)...

It makes sense because someone had mentioned earlier they may be involved in anti-tax movements. I don't know of any proof of that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[NSC]

Alright, I just asked my husband about this "sovereign" -- This can be a way for people to avoid paying usa taxes. Though, this is difficult the Amish and the Indians are the ones who typically get away with it. And corporately, churchs. He said people try to file suits against the gov for using their SS cards and other information illegally - he said this typically does not work. But there are several different ways to attempt this.

At this point, I think anything is possible and should be explored. But even if the Billings were going to do this, why were their be a motive to murder them over it??? Thoughts???

 

[mikeysmommom]

When You Copyright Your Name, You Become A Sovereign. You Are No Longer A U.S. Citizen. You Are A National Sovereign. It Is What People Do To Escape Punishment From U.S. Law.

I have never ever heard of that.Here I have been thinking all this copying writing was to protect from anyone using the names for profit.

 

[Lossmitpro]

could a person avoid paying taxes when not a citizen ????

We are gonna get way afield here, but these tax protesters drive on the roads, enjoy the US military protecting them from attack, drink the healthy water, breath the healthy air, call the police when something goes wrong, expect the roads to be plowed, and electricity to be kept on... hey, I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but Snipes and all these folks who think they can invent some imperfection in the federal law or Constitution that somehow keeps you from payin' your fair share... well, good luck with that, but you get ZERO support from this taxpaying armed services veteran.

 

[moonuniti]

We are gonna get way afield here, but these tax protesters drive on the roads, enjoy the US military protecting them from attack, drink the healthy water, breath the healthy air, call the police when something goes wrong, expect the roads to be plowed, and electricity to be kept on... hey, I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but Snipes and all these folks who think they can invent some imperfection in the federal law or Constitution that somehow keeps you from payin' your fair share... well, good luck with that, but you get ZERO support from this taxpaying armed services veteran.

You are right we are way afield. Let's get back to the sleuthing and away from the politicking!

 

[gazelletime]

Alright, I just asked my husband about this "sovereign" -- This can be a way for people to avoid paying usa taxes. Though, this is difficult the Amish and the Indians are the ones who typically get away with it. And corporately, churchs. He said people try to file suits against the gov for using their SS cards and other information illegally - he said this typically does not work. But there are several different ways to attempt this.

At this point, I think anything is possible and should be explored. But even if the Billings were going to do this, why were their be a motive to murder them over it??? Thoughts???

Usually people who consider themselves "Sovereign Citizens" are closely tied with "MILITIA" types (ring a bell?)

 

[dood]

I was up for 2 days constantly looking for info on those @#$% maritime documents and still am stumped.There is something shady when someone can own someone for life.50,000,000 judgments have driven me insane so I am looking in other things.

bs liens are a common tactic of Sovereign Citizen's and we know Byrd declared himself one so that's probably a BS lien ....It just doesn't sound right....I'm sure that would not hold up in a court of law, but tbh I'm no lawyer, would be great if someone with legal experience would sound off on that front.

 

[gazelletime]

Check this out, this guy is in Pensacola!

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/10/pensacola_hilarity.php

 

[elainebenice]

Daisy, In all fairness you asked me if I could post the links. I tried to clearly spell it out for everyone to see. if you read the documents I have listed. It isn't suspicious about her being a notary on a document. What is suspicious is that is looks like there is double dealing for "favors" or a close working relationship invovling ones personal money (which by the way we still haven't addressed the maritime document also produced at same time Billings financed their home) only later for the Billings to bring a judgement back against the Phillps. See what I am saying?

I think it is suspicious that she is notarizing docs that she possibly is an interested party to, but that's probably just the least of their problems....

I am beginning to get a much better picture of what went on here, at least the general motives. IMO, it cannot be denied that the Billings financial dealings in some way are connected to this case. I am not saying they did anything in particular that provoked the horrible crime, but I am almost ready to go all in on the theory that Wiggins/Long believed, whether real or imagined, that she had been "done wrong" or was the victim of the Billings through some type transaction like the kind we are finding at some point in the past. Even though it appears she went on to carry out transactions with others that were basically the same strange transactions as those of the Billings, possibly creating her own "victims," she carried a grudge for some reason against the couple. When LPG came along, I think she may have seen him as an easy mark to convince into helping her exact whatever revenge she thought was necessary against the Billings. I'm sure she convinced him that there was a small fortune in that house and it was basically his for the taking, but in return for this fortune, she expected him to "take care" of the Billings for her. I doubt he knew or cared what her actual motive was b/c he was blinded by the money and quite possibly mental illness. From there, he recruited the others with the same sales pitch she had used on him, BUT I tend to think that he failed to share the part about murder, just the part about the $$$$ they would all get. Once the group got to the house, someone obviously murdered the Billings (premeditated I believe), but I really think that only 3 of the group (MAX) knew this was part of the plan. It could have only been LPG, but I tend to think at least his dad knew of the plan as well. Once this group of idiots actually broke the safe open to claim their "treasure" they were ALL shocked at what they found and I don't think it was anywhere near the treasure they expected. At this point, it is a race to the sheriff's dept for at least 1 of the group and the dominos start to fall easily. Its likely they thought they had signed on for a robbery where they were going to get rich and no one was going to get hurt, but it turned out 2 people were killed AND there was no money. I'm sure they quickly realized they had been set up basically and once the videos of the van hit the media, it was simply a matter of time before they were caught. At this point, at least 1 in the group uses his brain and realizes that the 1st to flip will get the best deal and also the chance to point the finger at the others and away from themselves, especially since they would all be facing 1st degree murder charges at the outset. If they really knew nothing about the intent to murder the couple and expected to be royally compensated for the crime, then it was an easy decision to go ahead and flip on the others in order to mitigate their ulitmate punishment as much as possible.

This is without a doubt a completely f-d up situation all the way around, but it is becoming more clear to me that Pam Wiggins/Long was the "mastermind" beind this crime.......even though mastermind really seems inappropriate here due to the complete stupidity of all involved. I'm sure some of you will not agree and that's totally fine with me, but please don't think I am placing any type of blame on the Billings in my scenario. I am simply looking at the evidence we have available to us and giving my honest opinion of what most likely led up to the crime.

 

[MaedchenX]

could a person avoid paying taxes when not a citizen ????

As a resident alien, no. My father is a greencard holder and pays taxes.

 

[passionflower]

What if the Billings were doing this to not give back properties or something that would hurt allot of people?
Sometimes we hate to see bad in people that we think are such good people.
But sometimes there is a sorrid side that no one knows about.
I tend to see everything in rose colored glasses, while my husband sees reality.
Could we have seen them as perfect since they adopted 12 children?
But in reality they had other bad motives in their lives???
Wonder if they saw trouble coming?
They never had a chanse if they were in there bed!

 

[passionflower]

Usually people who consider themselves "Sovereign Citizens" are closely tied with "MILITIA" types (ring a bell?)

Oh MY! yes, I hear the bell ringing!!!! You are so right..........

 

[MBSC]

I checked more of the arrest records at the Escambia Sheriff's office site, and it's really confusing why the charges vary from person to person....

LPG, Sr. - Charge #1 TAMPERING WITH OR FABRICATING PHYSICAL EVIDENCE
Charge #2 MURDER
Charge #3 MURDER
Charge #4 ROBBERY-RESID HOME INVASION

LPG, Jr. - Charge #1 MURDER
Charge #2 ROBBERY-RESID HOME INVASION

GL SUMNER - Charge #1 HOLD FOR OKALOOSA DEPT OF CORRECTIONS
Charge #2 MURDER
Charge #3 MURDER

FL THORNTON - Charge #1 MURDER
Charge #2 MURDER

WT COLDIRON - Charge #1 MURDER
Charge #2 ROBBERY-RESID HOME INVASION

16 YR OLD - Charge #1 MURDER
Charge #2 MURDER

The others weren't there yet. I believe I read on one news site that the 7th person will be extradited tomorrow.

Is there any particular reason they all wouldn't be charged with the same thing?

 

[Reannan]

Just tossing this on the table - a sort of 30,000 foot view of things, so to speak: We have a wealthy family who was doing wonderful things within their family, and for the community. Everyone loved them. They were involved in a lot of different businesses, including used car sales, pawn shops, etc. The wealthy family had done some odd legal things like copyright their name, which theoretically could protect them from US law. They were murdered by a group of people who did not really know each other very well, yet who had trained together for a month to launch an assault on the home, murder the adults, leave the children unharmed, and heist a "medium sized safe". We know this because the dumb azz's were caught on film during the act. THAT was the first mistake of this operation - someone was supposed to have inactivated the security system, but failed to do so. What common denominators do we know for a fact? Cars, and real estate..... some of the murderers were involved with a custom shop, the Billings owned a used car lot, the latest arrest includes a woman who has a LOT of aliases, and sells realestate. The Billings family had done a lot of seemingly complex real estate transactions. All of this smells like drugs and money laundering IMHO. You could smuggle a LOT of cocaine inside used cars that move around the country from lot to lot. I am not saying the Billings were involved in this, but I fear there may be a link to drugs. Maybe the Billings were used without their knowledge, and were beginning to get suspicious??? I think we will know eventually, but until then, this case is driving me insane!!! :crazy:

 

[mikeysmommom]

bs liens are a common tactic of Sovereign Citizen's and we know Byrd declared himself one so that's probably a BS lien ....It just doesn't sound right....I'm sure that would not hold up in a court of law, but tbh I'm no lawyer, would be great if someone with legal experience would sound off on that front.

Me too It would save my brain LOL:crazy:

 

[FromFL]

Ok folks..I just got caught up from page 12 of the new thread...and I originally found the 'trademark/copyright' docs the billings' did. I just found some VERY interesting links:

the first being:
http://www./forum1/message679487/pg1

It is a forum/thread about removing your US Citizenship and becoming a sovereign American. There are numerous links under it, also.

It also has a post that states

get a copy of black's law dictionary and soak up as much as you can from there. many words used in court mean something different than the lies we've been taught.

read up on UCC and maritime law.

there are people doing it for real. signed the forms and made it official. it's real but you better know your **** before making the plunge. there are a lot of traps set up for a person to fall in. but it's doable.

MARITIME LAW!!!

THE BIGGEST one I found that puts (IMO) some of this more in order is:
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/pol/1226855499.html (yes it's on Craigslist)

It has some interesting thoughts on it including

There are two different people in this Country. You have US-Citizens and you have non-US Nationals. Look in your Passport on the first page and you will see that they use both terms. If you look up the word "Citizen" in a Black's Law Dictionary (8th edition), then it will say that a Citizen is "A Member of a Political Community". A non-US National is a Sovereign American that is not subjected to any Codes or Statutes of the Corporate UNITED STATES or their "Political Community". Also, if you look up the word "Person" in a Black's Law Dictionary, then it says that a Person is a Corporate Fiction (Look in the 3rd Edition of Black's Law).

In the section about Traffic Tickets it has:

But if you tell the Judge that you are not a "Person" and you are not a Corporation...then your Case will get dismissed because you didn't grant the court jurisdiction.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT MELANIE BILLINGS DID. One document says "corporation" the other "not a corporation" another "not a person" and is listed as a "vessel."

Man what was really going on behind the scenes?

By doing all of these things, did that (theoretically or realistically) get them out of trouble with the "law" or make it easier for them to take kids from others, get money from others, hide business dealings, etc?