GUILTY CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #68

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afitzy said:
SO agree.

Reading these blog entries simply imo makes the match up of JF and FD one of 'chalk and cheese'....layer in her possibly not giving much thought to the impact of FD traditional childhood and only son status in Greece on his behaviour and marriage expectations and it just seemed like a situation that could work for the long haul imo. Or, FD could have simply whitewashed his traditional upbringing during the 'love bomb' stage and so JF thought he was no different than the other guys she knew in NY.

JF supposedly also had an unfinished book at the time of her death that I believe was found at Welles during search that was not brought up at trial. I'd always wondered if the book was autobiographical in line with the blog postings for The Patch.

I do wonder if it will ever be published or will it be kept private?

MOO
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I read some where that when they first met at Brown University they had a special “chemistry” but didn’t reconnect until years later. Knowing now what kind of monster he really was, he must have swept her off her feet, wined and dined her and turned on the charm to try and convince her that he was her Prince Charming. Eventually his true self was revealed but they had children then and she probably tried to overlook his faults and immersed herself in their children while she coped with him.
I often think about what her children will eventually do in life and if any of them will grow up to be writers themselves. Perhaps one day they’ll be the one to finish their mother’s story.
 
ElizabethFoxfire said:
Occam’s Razor. I am still stuck. I can’t get over the possible final resting place of JFd. Respectfully, I still believe it’s possible for FD to have leveraged the zip ties [esp the large ones..] in an unthinkable way, taking advantage of JFd’s incredibly small stature and size at that point in the divorce — to manipulate her into a more ‘manageable’ size/position for transport.

For FD, this was a full adrenaline situation, I don’t think it’s outside the scope of reality that he moved her via ‘slide support’ of WeatherTech liner so long as the surface/destination in the Tacoma was line lined up semi closely with her Suburban. I think this could explain JFd Suburban left in reverse & eventual battery drain.

I also don’t think we have a tight enough timeline on the highway heading back to 4JXC to truly rule out a preplanned drop, into a waterway or another location that would not require more than 5-10 mins additional ‘cleanup.’ Adding KM at this point seems extremely dangerous & reckless, even for FD. I still give weight to the simplest solution & hope one day for answers for all.
**The only thing I can’t explain is JFd Bluetooth reconnecting to the Suburban at 2:56P. As always, JMO
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I'm not sure we have enough information solely from the AAs (MT, MT and KM) and MT evidence presented at trial to Occam Razor the body location.

LE have been trying for 5 years and they have much more evidence imo than was presented at the MT trial imo. As we have seen, searches have happened both in NC and Farmington area. I don't think all the locations searched by CSP were public either so there is much not known on this front unfortunately to allow us here to eliminate speculated positions either imo.

Gray Hughes (youtube channel I think is Gray Hughes Investigates) long ago looked at the FD timeline via the AA and did some brilliant work using google earth to look at possible locations in/around NC where FD might have gone during the period of the time gap. Gray Hughes took down these videos around the time of the MT Trial for reasons I don't understand and IDK if he will ever put them back up. But to me these videos (think there were 2) opened up the range of possibilities in a clear visual manner in and around NC (into NY State/Westchester County). But, the videos also made clear that if an accomplice was in NC and the body was given to the accomplice from the JF Suburban that the body could have gone in any direction and never been detected by LE unless they knew where the body transfer took place. Gary also iirc looked at the possibility of the body transfer happening on Lapham but many didn't believe that made sense due to the traffic levels and risk of detection.

The MT trial seemed imo to 'excise' KM related timeline, vehicle/s etc. in an almost surgical manner (for obvious reasons) and I do believe he was a crucial element possibly in understanding the location of the body, but this view is purely speculation as other than the charge placed on him by the State we actually know very little as his AA is quite sparse imo in comparison to FD and MT.

We also didn't receive much of any telemetric/GPS etc. data from the 2015 Suburban FD vehicle or the White Jeep Cherokee in the MT trial. Did the MT rental Tahoe play any role in anything having to do with the body? Or, was there another vehicle and conspirator in NC that is unknown the case? What's up with the Armenian car dealer in Farmington area that CSP spent so much time investigating? Do the Toot brothers have any known associates in the US? Could go on and on and then you get into 'tin foil hat' territory!

Perhaps this information is all being saved in the event that there is a trial for KM? IDK. I don't suspect that we will ever know unfortunately.

I do think its a safe bet that FD would not be driving a body around in the I think 18 year old Tacoma with an uncertain starter and bad oil leak. But, who knows as he clearly was not a risk averse person. We've seen no other conspirators named since the charges were made on FD, MT and KM. Is there someone LE might know of but can't charge? We don't have an answer to that either imo. We do know that the Federal level investigation of Andreas Toot was dropped for reasons unknown. Was the investigation dropped for valid reasons or was the information deemed too expensive and time consuming to pursue? Who knows as neither State nor FBI ever spoke of the matter.

We also still have iirc roughly 40 min of unaccounted for timeline for FD in NC. Baffling to me that LE had and searched camera footage from all over NC and YET could not find what FD could have been doing in these 40 min. Why did the State leave the timeline gap for FD unresolved in the MT trial? Will they close this gap in the KM trial?

I haven't gone back to review the MT timeline post trial but my recollection is that the State 'tightened up' the MT timeline a bit with the 'car parade' and 'smoke signals' at 80MS and 4Jx, respectively. But, my recollection is that there were still gaps in the timeline that the State left unexplained. Again, why? Did the State not know MT locations or did they choose to not disclose it at her trial. I don't think we can answer that. For my money I don't know why the Jeep Cherokee data wasn't disclosed at trial (unless I missed it) as it appeared MT was driving that vehicle mostly during times critical imo to answering the question of where the body might be. We also don't know if MT might have seen the body or even heard FD talk about it. We have just heard MT say that she, "...doesn't know where Jennifer is....".

I've seen estimates for the cost of the investigation to range from $5 million to $10 million and CSP still 'claims' to still have an active investigation going. Given the extent of the CSP investigation it never made much sense that the body of JF was never recovered. Could the body or partial remains have been found by CSP and this not disclosed to the public and only made known to the family?

FD/MT/KM made any number of mistakes (not many admittedly) in the murder of JF but why does it seem there were no mistakes made regarding the removal of the body of JF? Does CSP know where the removal of the body of JF even took place? IDK and frankly I doubt we will ever know.

Should the CSP have called in the FBI in a more significant capacity earlier in the process and possibly even turned the entire investigation over to them with possibly a better result in terms of finding the body? Impossible to say as it never happened as CSP only seemed to use FBI resources in a limited way based on what we as the public saw in term of searching using canine crews etc. I do hope CSP does an internal review of the investigation (plan/do/evaluate basic model) to see what worked in the investigation and what didn't but also to see if seeking outside assistance earlier in the process might have had a different result in terms of body recovery. CSP has a long history in CT for lack of transparency that is too long to go into here but I do hope they evaluate the performance and errors and readjust process and procedures accordingly.

Could keep writing questions endlessly as sadly the trial of MT didn't seem to help much in answering the 'where is the body' of JF question imo.

MOO
 
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MollyDDD said:
I read some where that when they first met at Brown University they had a special “chemistry” but didn’t reconnect until years later. Knowing now what kind of monster he really was, he must have swept her off her feet, wined and dined her and turned on the charm to try and convince her that he was her Prince Charming. Eventually his true self was revealed but they had children then and she probably tried to overlook his faults and immersed herself in their children while she coped with him.
I often think about what her children will eventually do in life and if any of them will grow up to be writers themselves. Perhaps one day they’ll be the one to finish their mother’s story.
Click to expand...
You know what the chemistry was? Money-specifically her family’s money.
 
MollyDDD said:
I read some where that when they first met at Brown University they had a special “chemistry” but didn’t reconnect until years later. Knowing now what kind of monster he really was, he must have swept her off her feet, wined and dined her and turned on the charm to try and convince her that he was her Prince Charming. Eventually his true self was revealed but they had children then and she probably tried to overlook his faults and immersed herself in their children while she coped with him.
I often think about what her children will eventually do in life and if any of them will grow up to be writers themselves. Perhaps one day they’ll be the one to finish their mother’s story.
Click to expand...
I'll never forget reading the english translation of the interview that FD gave to Greek newspaper in 2017. We talked about it mainly in the context that it violated the gag order in place at the time but we also discussed how FD in that article switched up the timeline of the dissolution of the marriage to an earlier point in time and him asking JF for divorce (both of these points I believe were later disproven in Family Court documents). The article also made reference to JF iirc 'pulling away' and 'being a hermit' and how the couple per FD of course no longer 'had a connection'. That article also seemed to have FD saying that they hadn't had sex in iirc 6 years.

There were many things that hit me from reading this FD 'version of events in his marriage' but the odd thing he never spoke about was the fact that during this period of 'disconnection' in his marriage that he became a father to 5 children. His references to the children seemed imo to be afterthoughts almost and then the focus always came back to HIM. It was almost as if in the mind of FD that the children didn't exist and that he couldn't understand how and why JF might have changed during this period of having 2 sets of twins and a daughter might have resulted in diminished attention and focus on him. IDK, speculation on my part but I just think FD just cared about FD and he needed the attention and ego stroking of 100% focus from his partner.

Here is Daily Mail summary of that article as I couldn't find the Proto Thema article translation:

www.dailymail.co.uk

Fotis Dulos says wife Jennifer had 'psychological problems'

Dulos had been banned from speaking publicly about his wife in a way that would prejudice the case. He is accused of tampering with evidence. Jennifer went missing in Connecticut on May 24.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Missing from Missing hired a translator to review the Greek interview article and here is their english translation. Many threads ago we had a person who spoke Greek translate the article and so that information is here on WS somewhere for those interested. I rarely have luck searching WS so didn't bring that wonderful post back here.
 
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afitzy said:
I'm not sure we have enough information solely from the AAs (MT, MT and KM) and MT evidence presented at trial to Occam Razor the body location.

LE have been trying for 5 years and they have much more evidence imo than was presented at the MT trial imo. As we have seen, searches have happened both in NC and Farmington area. I don't think all the locations searched by CSP were public either so there is much not known on this front unfortunately to allow us here to eliminate speculated positions either imo.

Gray Hughes (youtube channel I think is Gray Huge Investigates) long ago looked at the FD timeline via the AA and did some brilliant work using google earth to look at possible locations in/around NC where FD might have gone during the period of the time gap. Gray Hughes took down these videos around the time of the MT Trial for reasons I don't understand and IDK if he will ever put them back up. But to me these videos (think there were 2) opened up the range of possibilities in a clear visual manner. But, the videos also made clear that if an accomplice was in NC and the body was given to the accomplice from the JF Suburban that the body could have gone in any direction and never been detected by LE unless they knew where the body transfer took place. Gary also iirc looked at the possibility of the body transfer happening on Lapham but many didn't believe that due to the traffic levels.

The MT trial seemed imo to 'excise' KM related timeline, vehicle/s etc. in an almost surgical manner (for obvious reasons) and I do believe he was a crucial element possibly in understanding the location of the body, but this view is purely speculation as other than the charge placed on him by the State we actually know very little as his AA is quite sparse imo in comparison to FD and MT.

We also didn't receive much of any telemetric/GPS etc. data from the 2015 Suburban FD vehicle or the White Jeep Cherokee in the MT trial. Did the MT rental Tahoe play any role in anything having to do with the body? Or, was there another vehicle and conspirator in NC that is unknown the case? What's up with the Armenian car dealer in Farmington area that CSP spent so much time investigating? Do the Toot brothers have any known associates in the US? Could go on and on and then you get into 'tin foil hat' territory!

Perhaps this information is all being saved in the event that there is a trial for KM? IDK. I don't suspect that we will ever know unfortunately.

I do think its a safe bet that FD would not be driving a body around in the I think 18 year old Tacoma with an uncertain starter and bad oil leak. But, who knows as he clearly was not a risk averse person. We've seen no other conspirators named since the charges were made on FD, MT and KM. Is there someone LE might know of but can't charge? We don't have an answer to that either imo. We do know that the Federal level investigation of Andreas Toot was dropped for reasons unknown. Was the investigation dropped for valid reasons or was the information deemed too expensive and time consuming to pursue? Who knows as neither State nor FBI ever spoke of the matter.

We also still have iirc roughly 40 min of unaccounted for timeline for FD in NC. Baffling to me that LE had and searched camera footage from all over NC and YET could not find what FD could have been doing in these 40 min. Why did the State leave the timeline gap for FD unresolved in the MT trial? Will they close this gap in the KM trial?

I haven't gone back to review the MT timeline post trial but my recollection is that the State 'tightened up' the MT timeline a bit with the 'car parade' and 'smoke signals' at 80MS and 4Jx, respectively. But, my recollection is that there were still gaps in the timeline that the State left unexplained. Again, why? Did the State not know MT locations or did they choose to not disclose it at her trial. I don't think we can answer that. For my money I don't know why the Jeep Cherokee data wasn't disclosed at trial (unless I missed it) as it appeared MT was driving that vehicle mostly during times critical imo to answering the question of where the body might be. We also don't know if MT might have seen the body or even heard FD talk about it. We have just heard MT say that she, "...doesn't know where Jennifer is....".

I've seen estimates for the cost of the investigation to range from $5 million to $10 million and CSP still 'claims' to still have an active investigation going. Given the extent of the CSP investigation it never made much sense that the body of JF was never recovered. Could the body or partial remains have been found by CSP and this not disclosed to the public and only made known to the family?

FD/MT/KM made any number of mistakes (not many admittedly) in the murder of JF but why does it seem there were no mistakes made regarding the removal of the body of JF? Does CSP know where the removal of the body of JF even took place? IDK and frankly I doubt we will ever know.

Should the CSP have called in the FBI in a more significant capacity earlier in the process and possibly even turned the entire investigation over to them with possibly a better result in terms of finding the body? Impossible to say as it never happened as CSP only seemed to use FBI resources in a limited way based on what we as the public saw in term of searching using canine crews etc. I do hope CSP does an internal review of the investigation (plan/do/evaluate basic model) to see what worked in the investigation and what didn't but also to see if seeking outside assistance earlier in the process might have had a different result in terms of body recovery. CSP has a long history in CT for lack of transparency that is too long to go into here but I do hope they evaluate the performance and errors and readjust process and procedures accordingly.

Could keep writing questions endlessly as sadly the trial of MT didn't seem to help much in answering the 'where is the body' of JF question imo.

MOO
Click to expand...
In what situation do murderers separate a body from bloody clothing, rags, etc. and dispose of them in different places? If they had a really "secure" secret place, why wouldn't all the disposal be done in one place?
 
Megnut said:
Thank you. That jibes with what I thought also.

It makes you wonder if 5/24 was his first and only attempt.

JFd was never safe.
Click to expand...
IDK, there was the incident that LA mentioned about JF telling her FD tried to run her over but iirc that wasn't reported to police.

My belief is that the Family Court and FD financial situation in April/May 2019 was such that FD was out of options in his mind to survive. If, as many now suspect, that MT was putting extreme pressure on FD to resolve the custody and divorce situation that might have been the tipping point. I'm not sure whether MT had any long term value to FD really so I always chose to look at his decision to murder JF as solely for his own reasons of money, anger and revenge etc. FD needed MT as an accomplice in the short run imo, so to me it made sense to wrap her into the divorce drama and make her feel involved and relevant to feed her need to control and narcissistic tendencies imo. But, given the speed at which MT was replaced by FD, I firmly believe she was simply another well used accomplice tool in his plan and in the mind of FD was irrelevant.

Its fascinating imo to see narcs use words like 'love' and 'caring' in their word salads to manipulate their listening audience to believe them. Just listening to the Missing Our Missing english translation of the Greek Proto Thema article has me laughing at the FD claim to 'love' MT. I didn't recall that comment about MT and in hindsight it is almost comical as iirc that was the period when the two were separated by the Court and supposedly not to be meeting (this was found to not be true as the couple were hooking up as we found out in one of the MT LE interviews later). FD was effectively using Proto Thema article to proclaim his 'love' for MT. He was simply a typical mid range narc who sought to control all those around him and everything in his life imo.

MOO
 
acutename said:
In what situation do murderers separate a body from bloody clothing, rags, etc. and dispose of them in different places? If they had a really "secure" secret place, why wouldn't all the disposal be done in one place?
Click to expand...
I think we looked at the other CT 'no body' murder case "Woodchipper case" where I believe the body was also stripped. Both FD and MT had experience in 'cleaning' fish and game and FD family was in the the tanning business so he no doubt had extensive knowledge of cleaning as well.

The speculation on this topic is never ending and frankly without more information from LE it simply imo seems to be a black hole. If people want to spend time speculating then perhaps its best treated as an academic exercise? IDK but I'm not spending time on it absent more information or confirmation from CSP that they haven't found any remains. We also never got to hear from the ME about what to me at least appeared to be a jaw fragment with iirc 4 teeth attached which was located on top of the one of the ponchos found by LE. What was that item? Why was it not discussed at trial. Would the ME have gone further in his testimony at MT trial than he already did in the AA? My recollection of the proffer at trial was that the ME would simply restate AA related testimony. Not sure that gives much more info than we already have which frankly imo isn't much.

We now have people in the public domaine trying to raise money for stand alone searches using cadaver dogs! The public doesn't even know all of the locations searched by CSP or whether the body of JF or any remains have ever been found and returned to her family. I believe awhile ago we had heard that the Farber family had private investigators looking for the body. We don't know if they found anything either?

I've seen other cases where the fixation on an unfound body and the feelings this generates in people is used to go in directions that make little sense and that unscrupulous players use this fixation on 'finding the body' to separate people from their hard earned cash and crush devastated family members and loved one. I find this process upsetting as I've seen people give money they didn't have to such efforts and it was all in vain.

If people have valid leads as to locations to search then imo they should send them to Sgt. Ventreska at CSP and not be raising money on go fund me for stand alone searches. That's just my opinion and per always here on WS folks disagree all the time and that is all good imo too as it keeps things moving and fosters discussion that might answer some questions.

MOO
 
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Catz said:
I found the Greek article @afitzy mentioned. Morgan10028 was able to translate it in her post . Its in Thread #27, on page 36, post 702. “I didnt kill my rich wife”.
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Here is the link for those interested in the @Morgan10028 OP:

www.websleuths.com

Silver Alert - CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #27

Love to know who paid MT’s daughter's Ethel Walker tuition ....... # sketch Me too! Was it her grandparents or Mrs. Gloria Farber via Fotis Dulos? I think we will eventually know. MOO.
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

For any of the speakers of Greek, the above post by @Morgan10028 has the link to the Greek paper directly. My recollection of google translate for Greek is that its not the best. I've tried so many times to translate other Greek sources on other issues in this tragic case and rarely get understandable results. If anyone has a better online source for Greek translation online please let me know as there are a number of Greek documents etc. that I would like to translate.
 
afitzy said:
I'll never forget reading the english translation of the interview that FD gave to Greek newspaper in 2017. We talked about it mainly in the context that it violated the gag order in place at the time but we also discussed how FD in that article switched up the timeline of the dissolution of the marriage to an earlier point in time and him asking JF for divorce (both of these points I believe were later disproven in Family Court documents). The article also made reference to JF iirc 'pulling away' and 'being a hermit' and how the couple per FD of course no longer 'had a connection'. That article also seemed to have FD saying that they hadn't had sex in iirc 6 years.

There were many things that hit me from reading this FD 'version of events in his marriage' but the odd thing he never spoke about was the fact that during this period of 'disconnection' in his marriage that he became a father to 5 children. His references to the children seemed imo to be afterthoughts almost and then the focus always came back to HIM. It was almost as if in the mind of FD that the children didn't exist and that he couldn't understand how and why JF might have changed during this period of having 2 sets of twins and a daughter might have resulted in diminished attention and focus on him. IDK, speculation on my part but I just think FD just cared about FD and he needed the attention and ego stroking of 100% focus from his partner.

Here is Daily Mail summary of that article as I couldn't find the Proto Thema article translation:

www.dailymail.co.uk

Fotis Dulos says wife Jennifer had 'psychological problems'

Dulos had been banned from speaking publicly about his wife in a way that would prejudice the case. He is accused of tampering with evidence. Jennifer went missing in Connecticut on May 24.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Missing the Missing hired a translator to review the Greek interview article and here is their english translation. Many threads ago we had a person who spoke Greek translate the article and so that information is here on WS somewhere for those interested. I rarely have luck searching WS so didn't bring that wonderful post back here.
Click to expand...
omg, where to begin! So typical of egocentric and narcissistic FD to wonder why his wife “pulled away” from HIM….because she must be crazy! @@ And to call her a “hermit”! Yeah, it’s all her fault, right FD?
Thank God he killed himself, because if I were GF, he’d be missing too!
What a sick man and his children know this about him now. They meant nothing but a means to get money from and when the gig was up, he orphaned them. Just diabolical. She carried, birthed and raised twins TWICE and had another baby. Poor Jennifer, she must have suffered so much trying to live with him. All of her good nature, patience, and kindness, he tried to destroy, and eventually did.
 
MollyDDD said:
omg, where to begin! So typical of egocentric and narcissistic FD to wonder why his wife “pulled away” from HIM….because she must be crazy! @@ And to call her a “hermit”! Yeah, it’s all her fault, right FD?
Thank God he killed himself, because if I were GF, he’d be missing too!
What a sick man and his children know this about him now. They meant nothing but a means to get money from and when the gig was up, he orphaned them. Just diabolical. She carried, birthed and raised twins TWICE and had another baby. Poor Jennifer, she must have suffered so much trying to live with him. All of her good nature, patience, and kindness, he tried to destroy, and eventually did.
Click to expand...
One of the most disgusting, IMO, is when he says she suggested counseling but he wasn't interested anymore....Gag!
 
afitzy said:
Here is the link for those interested in the @Morgan10028 OP:

www.websleuths.com

Silver Alert - CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #27

Love to know who paid MT’s daughter's Ethel Walker tuition ....... # sketch Me too! Was it her grandparents or Mrs. Gloria Farber via Fotis Dulos? I think we will eventually know. MOO.
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

For any of the speakers of Greek, the above post by @Morgan10028 has the link to the Greek paper directly. My recollection of google translate for Greek is that its not the best. I've tried so many times to translate other Greek sources on other issues in this tragic case and rarely get understandable results. If anyone has a better online source for Greek translation online please let me know as there are a number of Greek documents etc. that I would like to translate.
Click to expand...
From the Greek conversion at link regarding his 60 days in jail:

"My children, Michelle, missed my daily contacts with coworkers and friends, but most of all I lacked my freedom, obviously the most important value in our lives, which I considered to be a given until then. "

I don't understand why people don't consider the consequences of their actions before acting. There is no one that I'd give up my freedom for and I adore my family to the highest. How do these type people convince themselves they're invincible and can escape imprisonment?

It is sad that Jen's marriage with Fotis did not work out but he, and his accomplices, had no right to kill her. Are we sure these two deadbeats weren't abusing drugs?
 
browneyes said:
I watched a different case on Dateline where the killer also came through the garage behind the victim after pulling in. In that case, the garage door was coming down so the killer tripped the safety feature, where the door goes back up and the garage light blinks, and it was caught by a neighbor’s camera. So LE knew exactly when it happened and the case was solved. It’s also very easy to step over the safety feature and the door works as usual.
Click to expand...
there was an infamous case here in Western Australia where a stalker waited out of sight until their subject drove away and then rolled under the descending garage door, accessed the home and lay in wait…
i wonder if that is what FD did when JF took the children to school
 
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