Silver Alert CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #26

[littlegreen]

A body was found today in a pond about a mile from my home in New Haven, CT today. They are male remains, but before that announcement, I had to wonder.

I read this thread every day, thanks for keeping the discussion so interesting and informative, everyone!

 

[afitzy]

Guess this relates to the very unreal tales NP has told during the last almost 4 months.

Realize the following would differ by the personalities involved, but as a defense attorney, what does one do when you discover your client has been lying to you? And, it appears another member of the bar may have lied to your investigators, too.

During the first hearing in which NP represented FD he stated:
"We've been able to account for Mr. Dulos' whereabouts with independent evidence for almost all of that time, including an early morning meeting at a his home with an attorney," Pattis said.

He also told the judge his client received a call from Greece, and that Troconis was with him in and out of the Farmington home.
Fotis Dulos, estranged husband of missing mom, released on bond

In the interview, NP comments that his team is relying on some information provided by the former attorneys (Eugene Riccio. The earliest "alibi" for FD may have been investigated Attorney Riccio's investigators. (This sentence is MOO)
Interview: Attorney Norm Pattis answers questions about Dulos case

The alibis and theories noted by NP keep changing. I think @afitzy mentioned there is a pattern to these chaanges.

Which brings me back to the dilemma of being a defense attorney. I guess one doesn't expect 100% honesty from one's clients as trust is being built. (See above wfsb interview). However, NP has been very vocal with the alibi script stories. Does the revelation that one's client has told bold-faced lies influence the way you handle the rest of the case?

Excellent points all IMO!

Each week I check the CT Bar to see if anyone has filed a complaint of any sort on Pattis. I thought for sure that after the entire issue with the stolen psych report that AT A MINIMUM Atty Dranginis might have filed something as she was so concerned about the issue that I believe she got in her car and went to visit Pattis IN PERSON to discuss the fact that the document was sealed etc. Nope. Nothing filed by Atty Danginis, Judge Heller or anyone else that I can see. Judge Heller let Pattis resign from Family Court without penalties or sanctions imposed for the psych report mess. Just another day in court I guess for Judge Heller. Guess legal folks protect their own until it gets to the point of someone who is such a burden to the CT legal system as FD friend former atty Ford, that the CT Bar does something and takes away a license.

Most people I think operate on the basis that people aren't lying all the time. Psychologists always explain that lying takes a lot of work and mental energy. How could we make it through the day if we had to be constantly on the alert for people always lying? We couldn't IMO.

Having been working on my personal timeline since the case began I wish I had done it in blackline/redline to show the impact of Pattis comments and FD/MT 'alibi scripts'. It was incredible that the dialog related to the 'alibi scripts' went on as long as it did. Kudos to Atty Bowman for not getting sucked into the public dialog as even though it appears his client lied to him and LE for months, at least it wasn't picked up in the press. Atty Bowman did what he did to ensure that even though he has a client that lies, that she will get a fair trial by jury at some point. FD, did not have the benefit of an Atty Bowman and IMO his choice of counsel has sunk him and I do not see long term how he can afford to stay on the Pattisville express. Strictly MOO as I am sure all these issues can be debated endlessly and no doubt will be discussed in law school cases at some point to figure out the answers to some of the questions you asked in your OP.

Pattis IMO got sucked into the 'alibi scripts' lock stock and barrel and IMO that is totally par for the course when you are dealing with people like FD and MT. Goes with the territory as they say. What I don't get is how Pattis said he checked out the 'alibi script' and yet didn't realise it was a 'put on'? Was he not telling the truth about doing any diligence on the 'alibi script'? IDK.

But it was the non stop commentary to the press IMO by Pattis that sunk his client, eliminated any public creditability he has as a professional and made it tough here on WS to figure out what was going on. Sadly in my mind Pattis is simply another defence attorney that will do and say anything on behalf of his client. The good news is that his past behaviour makes it super easy to just 'tune him out as background noise' in this case.

The even sadder thing about all of this is that I am not convinced that Pattis thinks he did anything wrong by repeating unsubstantiated information about his client. Pattis can stand up in court and talk about provisions a and b of the professional code all day long but I'm just not sure he gets that what he has done didn't serve his client or this case well at all.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

Hopefully that will be the last of my spy missions...I am leaving Tuesday...woohoo!

@thekirbyfamily, safe travels and prayers for you and your family on your trip to your new 'home'!

Please keep us all in your thoughts and let us know when your new destination is reached!

MOO

 

[citygirl]

Hopefully that will be the last of my spy missions...I am leaving Tuesday...woohoo!

You are so selfish.
How dare you leave us?
Wishing you safe travels.

 

[MemPat]

Hopefully that will be the last of my spy missions...I am leaving Tuesday...woohoo!

You go, girl!!

 

[MemPat]

A body was found today in a pond about a mile from my home in New Haven, CT today. They are male remains, but before that announcement, I had to wonder.

I read this thread every day, thanks for keeping the discussion so interesting and informative, everyone!

That's sad but it will be interesting to know how long the body has been there and what caused it to surface.

I guess it would also be interesting to know if the man was connected to FD or MT! Perhaps they did away with a third partner in crime?

 

[Southern_Girl]

I’ve been searching & I may have missed something, but why are we relying so heavily on info that was gathered & reported on solely by DA/HC? Every single link I’ve read about George/Fudge/the knife/pillow has been a “reposting” of DA/HC article.

 

[citygirl]

Excellent points all IMO!

Each week I check the CT Bar to see if anyone has filed a complaint of any sort on Pattis. I thought for sure that after the entire issue with the stolen psych report that AT A MINIMUM Atty Dranginis might have filed something as she was so concerned about the issue that I believe she got in her car and went to visit Pattis IN PERSON to discuss the fact that the document was sealed etc. Nope. Nothing filed by Atty Danginis, Judge Heller or anyone else that I can see. Judge Heller let Pattis resign from Family Court without penalties or sanctions imposed for the psych report mess. Just another day in court I guess for Judge Heller. Guess legal folks protect their own until it gets to the point of someone who is such a burden to the CT legal system as FD friend former atty Ford, that the CT Bar does something and takes away a license.

Most people I think operate on the basis that people aren't lying all the time. Psychologists always explain that lying takes a lot of work and mental energy. How could we make it through the day if we had to be constantly on the alert for people always lying? We couldn't IMO.

Having been working on my personal timeline since the case began I wish I had done it in blackline/redline to show the impact of Pattis comments and FD/MT 'alibi scripts'. It was incredible that the dialog related to the 'alibi scripts' went on as long as it did. Kudos to Atty Bowman for not getting sucked into the public dialog as even though it appears his client lied to him and LE for months, at least it wasn't picked up in the press. Atty Bowman did what he did to ensure that even though he has a client that lies, that she will get a fair trial by jury at some point. FD, did not have the benefit of an Atty Bowman and IMO his choice of counsel has sunk him and I do not see long term how he can afford to stay on the Pattisville express. Strictly MOO as I am sure all these issues can be debated endlessly and no doubt will be discussed in law school cases at some point to figure out the answers to some of the questions you asked in your OP.

Pattis IMO got sucked into the 'alibi scripts' lock stock and barrel and IMO that is totally par for the course when you are dealing with people like FD and MT. Goes with the territory as they say. What I don't get is how Pattis said he checked out the 'alibi script' and yet didn't realise it was a 'put on'? Was he not telling the truth about doing any diligence on the 'alibi script'? IDK.

But it was the non stop commentary to the press IMO by Pattis that sunk his client, eliminated any public creditability he has as a professional and made it tough here on WS to figure out what was going on. Sadly in my mind Pattis is simply another defence attorney that will do and say anything on behalf of his client. The good news is that his past behaviour makes it super easy to just 'tune him out as background noise' in this case.

The even sadder thing about all of this is that I am not convinced that Pattis thinks he did anything wrong by repeating unsubstantiated information about his client. Pattis can stand up in court and talk about provisions a and b of the professional code all day long but I'm just not sure he gets that what he has done didn't serve his client or this case well at all.

MOO

Perhaps no one sanctions him because they don't consider him important?
Not in the major leagues?
MOO.

 

[Alathea]

I’ve been searching & I may have missed something, but why are we relying so heavily on info that was gathered & reported on solely by DA/HC? Every single link I’ve read about George/Fudge/the knife/pillow has been a “reposting” of DA/HC article.

It's because the witness/man who found the knife/pillow (according to media) spoke directly to the HC - here is link from SA. It would be great to find direct quotes to other sources if they exist, but I haven't seen any yet.

Jennifer Dulos case: Man claims he found knife, bloodied pillow in Hartford trash

‘I wanted a hit so bad’: Knife possibly linked to missing mom Jennifer Dulos traded for crack

 

[afitzy]

I’ve been searching & I may have missed something, but why are we relying so heavily on info that was gathered & reported on solely by DA/HC? Every single link I’ve read about George/Fudge/the knife/pillow has been a “reposting” of DA/HC article.

Excellent point. You are correct that this was 'reposted info' and not contained in either AW1 or 2.

My sense is that many believe that this info about George/Fudge/the knife/pillow was LE leak rather than a Pattis leak and that Pattis is on record in court mentioning Fudge and the knife (Pattis said he had the name of one of the parties involved I believe but then he said he wouldn't repeat them in court). I don't believe Pattis talked in the same way about the pillow and alledged JD VV shirt.

This reposting info is hard to deal with or even know how to file it away for future reference. I think what you did is probably the best thing to do which is realise that the info was 'reposted' and not necessarily the same as the information contained in the AW or court documents. If I were putting a color coded list in place for all the information we had, I think the color code for DA and all the other Reposting info would be "YELLOW FOR CAUTION". Could be good info, but we just don't know yet.

Sorry to not be more help on this but I'm struggling with this in a big way myself. I'm calling this the "Curse of FD and Pattisville". Just have to roll with it and know it will continue even in court until we get to trial and the evidence is examined.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

Perhaps no one sanctions him because they don't consider him important?
Not in the major leagues?
MOO.

I'm not sure what the reason is other than its a small state, small CT Bar and the attys protect their own so far as I can tell.

I stupidly had faith that Judge Heller would have done something in Family Court about Pattis but perhaps her world is so full of similar misdeeds from other attys and leaked confidential information is the norm that it was just another day in the office for her. IDK.

But its sad IMO to see how things operate in CT. Just hope we see better things in Criminal Court.

MOO

 

[MemPat]

Perhaps no one sanctions him because they don't consider him important?
Not in the major leagues?
MOO.

If he's reading here you may have just chopped Pattis off at the knees....
Good work!

 

[citygirl]

I'm not sure what the reason is other than its a small state, small CT Bar and the attys protect their own so far as I can tell.

I stupidly had faith that Judge Heller would have done something in Family Court about Pattis but perhaps her world is so full of similar misdeeds from other attys and leaked confidential information is the norm that it was just another day in the office for her. IDK.

But its sad IMO to see how things operate in CT. Just hope we see better things in Criminal Court.

MOO

All I know is he defended Stephen Hayes in the Petit case.
Don't care to look it up but can only imagine what he had to say in his defense.
I'm thinking Norm is well known on the home front and none of his colleagues really care what he has to say?
MOO.

 

[Alathea]

I'm not sure what the reason is other than its a small state, small CT Bar and the attys protect their own so far as I can tell.

I stupidly had faith that Judge Heller would have done something in Family Court about Pattis but perhaps her world is so full of similar misdeeds from other attys and leaked confidential information is the norm that it was just another day in the office for her. IDK.

But its sad IMO to see how things operate in CT. Just hope we see better things in Criminal Court.

MOO

He's a pretty messed up individual, which is obvious to any observer; his childhood was pretty awful, and it seems he takes it out on anyone else who is a good person (IMO). NOT that his childhood is an excuse for being a horrid individual - lots of people have difficult childhoods, and turn out to be decent people.

As he has had extensive therapy, by his own admittance - how dare he try to bring up therapy as something to make a person appear to be less of a parent?

Anyway, you can read about his messed up life here; if you care to and have not already (link from the NH Register). As you read them, don't feel sorry for him - realize he is still a broken individual (IMO) and remember that plenty of people with worse childhoods put all of their time toward GOOD causes, and for good people. He's probably still so full of hatred for himself, that dealing with other hated people is the only thing that makes sense to him.

Norm Pattis explains how he defends Fotis Dulos and Alex Jones

another one: Clients like Alex Jones, Fotis Dulos court disfavor for attorney Norm Pattis

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Hopefully that will be the last of my spy missions...I am leaving Tuesday...woohoo!

You take care! I wish you every happiness.

 

[afitzy]

Perhaps no one sanctions him because they don't consider him important?
Not in the major leagues?
MOO.

IDK. I just thought the CT Bar was better than this. Guess not. Have to see if disbarment stats are public. MOO

 

[citygirl]

Excellent point. You are correct that this was 'reposted info' and not contained in either AW1 or 2.

My sense is that many believe that this info about George/Fudge/the knife/pillow was LE leak rather than a Pattis leak and that Pattis is on record in court mentioning Fudge and the knife (Pattis said he had the name of one of the parties involved I believe but then he said he wouldn't repeat them in court). I don't believe Pattis talked in the same way about the pillow and alledged JD VV shirt.

This reposting info is hard to deal with or even know how to file it away for future reference. I think what you did is probably the best thing to do which is realise that the info was 'reposted' and not necessarily the same as the information contained in the AW or court documents. If I were putting a color coded list in place for all the information we had, I think the color code for DA and all the other Reposting info would be "YELLOW FOR CAUTION". Could be good info, but we just don't know yet.

Sorry to not be more help on this but I'm struggling with this in a big way myself. I'm calling this the "Curse of FD and Pattisville". Just have to roll with it and know it will continue even in court until we get to trial and the evidence is examined.

MOO

And may all prove to be true.

 

[citygirl]

If he's reading here you may have just chopped Pattis off at the knees....
Good work!

Seriously not my intent.
NP is sensitive.
He is on the couch 4 times a week in his own words.
Based on his past clients he seems to be on a mission to defend the indefensible.
Can't help but wonder how Mr. Fotis cottons to being in that group, if he even knows?
MOO

 

[MemPat]

Seriously not my intent.
NP is sensitive.
He is on the couch 4 times a week in his own words.
Based on his past clients he seems to be on a mission to defend the indefensible.
Can't help but wonder how Mr. Fotis cottons to being in that group, if he even knows?
MOO

I already had no use for Pattis based on his deceitful patter in this case but just learning from you that he defended that heathen, Stephen Hayes, makes me know he's not my kind of human being.

I get the whole thing about everyone deserving a defense but the Petit case briefly made me question why.

I know the Death Penalty is gone in CT but do he and Komisarjevsky (sp?) have LWOP?

I've got to look it up and now I'm going to read the details and get furious again!

About whether FD knows we count him among the indefensible, I don't figure him for much of a reader.

 

[Alathea]

Excellent point. You are correct that this was 'reposted info' and not contained in either AW1 or 2.

My sense is that many believe that this info about George/Fudge/the knife/pillow was LE leak rather than a Pattis leak and that Pattis is on record in court mentioning Fudge and the knife (Pattis said he had the name of one of the parties involved I believe but then he said he wouldn't repeat them in court). I don't believe Pattis talked in the same way about the pillow and alledged JD VV shirt.

This reposting info is hard to deal with or even know how to file it away for future reference. I think what you did is probably the best thing to do which is realise that the info was 'reposted' and not necessarily the same as the information contained in the AW or court documents. If I were putting a color coded list in place for all the information we had, I think the color code for DA and all the other Reposting info would be "YELLOW FOR CAUTION". Could be good info, but we just don't know yet.

Sorry to not be more help on this but I'm struggling with this in a big way myself. I'm calling this the "Curse of FD and Pattisville". Just have to roll with it and know it will continue even in court until we get to trial and the evidence is examined.

MOO

OK. Perhaps I fell for it. While the info about the knife seems credible, there is no proof it's true at all. It's just something that seems odd that a defense would bring up if it were NOT true, so - as much as I try to remain aloof to any sensationalism by NP et al, I might have fallen for this as well.

We don't know if it's true, but then why would NP make it up - how would it help his client?