Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #39

[Topppps]

Topppps, what is your theory of the case?

I know you are skeptical that there is enough evidence to convict Dulos, but based on the evidence we have, what do you think happened?

I think Fotis Dulos killed Jennifer Dulos 100%. The lack of a body and murder weapon though puts this case in rare territory when there's only been a hand full of convictions without a body in Connecticut history. Case looks strong besides that.

 

[sds71]

I think we're agreed that MT hasn't flipped bc she's in too deep. But maybe she's not protecting HERSELF. What if she's not flipping bc of what FD might know. A blackmail pact. If she rolls, who can FD damn? Who else might MT be protecting? Who does she care about THIS much?

Because all she needs to do is explain where FD got the poison ivy... or the nuances of his long-running revenge plot.... or what happened at 80 MS... or where FD went by himself that afternoon and with what mode of transportation. LE only needs a direction --

But her pursed lips appear to remain sealed. Why?
JMO

I think she’s protecting her Mother.
Also, two of the cases Bowman cited in his Obj to her Deposition involved racketeering and falsifying documents.
That’s sounds like something her Mom would be involved in.

 

[oceancalling]

KM Neighbor speaks to Fox61:
EXCLUSIVE: Neighbors shaken by arrest of Kent Mawhinney


Excellent summary!

One of the many things I find baffling about this Sturbridge Project is that The Savings Bank of Danbury described in its motion that Fd had 'no equity' in the project. Perhaps the 'Friend Loans' are the equity in the deal? IDK. Very curious if those 'Friend Loans' were ever funded!?!?!?

Mmmm.

Construction lending in CT has long been in the doldrums IMO and never really recovered from the time of the financial collapse. Lending standards are conservative so to see a 'no equity' spec development deal from a small bank like The Savings Bank of Danbury or even a multimillion dollar loan deal at People's Bank in Bridgeport really has me scratching my head as to what is going on at each of these lending institutions as both have FDIC insurance I believe!

No money down, dollar and a dream real estate loans went the way of the dodo ages ago and so to see them offered up to the likes of Fd who was in the middle of a contentious divorce with an uncertain financial future, no State taxes filed for 2 years by all accounts, no Federal taxes filed for 2 years by all accounts and ongoing civil litigation is for the most part the trifecta required for a loan denial. YET, we don't see this at all. Nope, we see 2 local banks lending to the tune of nearly $7 million dollars. HOW? WHY? and ON WHAT BASIS?

Frankly, People's Bank in Bridgeport is a repeat player here IMO with Fd as we go back to the 123 Hunter situation with MT, GV and Fd AND SUE MORIN who was deposed about the matter in Family Court and took the 5th.

I do very much wonder what is going on here at both of these banks as based on virtually any lending standard I can imagine for commercial construction lending the Sturbridge project makes zero sense. How was Fd able to remove the contribution of the land from the deal upfront (he paid $1.5 million at auction for the property if I recall) and then fund both hard and soft costs via The Savings Bank of Danbury? WHO was responsible for this loan and I do very much wonder if there was perhaps other connections at play here perhaps at Senior Levels that bear investigation IMO. Even established builders in lower Fairfield County who do beautiful work don't have the ability to do deals with no equity and deals are typically hard costs only too. Little here with this loan or the People's Bank loans makes sense.

I do wonder why we aren't seeing People's Bank entering the litigation fray here either. I find this quite odd given the circumstances and the high probability that their loans are non performing at the moment too. What is also quite interesting is that my recollection is that People's Bank actively uses the firm Pullman & Comley (of which Anne Dranginis (GF atty) is a Partner I believe). So, perhaps Atty Dranginis might pop in and have a chat with one of her colleagues that handles some of the People's Bank legal work as perhaps they aren't aware that they have a non performing loan on their books (BTW I don't believe they don't know, I just don't know why they don't seem to be doing anything via the Courts to protect their position and effect collection).

Its officially a mess and the race to the courthouses in CT to register claims seems to be underway.

What I am interested in finding out is if there was fraudulent activity involved in any of the loans and were loan proceeds used to pay legal fees and/or other creditors? It all seems like a giant 'kite' IMO where Fd was on an ongoing quest for more loan proceeds which would be used to pay other creditors and it just kept rolling until it stopped (or maybe it hasn't stopped!?!). Here is a simple conceptual explanation of this process of kiting: Check kiting Definition | Bankrate.com. Quick visual is that you are taking $ from Peter to pay Paul and on and on.

IMO what Fd did as he didn't have ongoing income is simply borrow more in order to pay interest. At a certain point this was no longer possible which is why the Sturbridge loan interest went unpaid and my guess is that funds that would have been used by Fd to pay interest, taxes etc. were instead used to pay the good folks of Pattisville who were of more immediate importance to Fd.

I wish Atty Weinstein had gotten to the bottom of the legal fee payment questions in Civil Court. I know he made progress but to see all this cash swirling around with basic financial obligations now in default has me believing that the funds were all diverted to paying Pattisville and PI. Too bad the banks weren't quicker to shut it all down IMO (but I have questions as to why they didn't too as this was no exercise in differential equations IMO)!

We see Fd with huge credit card balances (unsecured so far as we know) that oddly have remained 'current' in status. How is this so? We see Fd using other collateral loan options to gain access to sizeable sums? What collateral was used and did it belong to Fd or was it put up by others?

My guess is that JFd saw the beginnings of all these Fd financial games and her attorney and their PI IMO no doubt had it pretty much squared away in advance in terms of understanding it all during the period just prior to her disappearance as the court hearing I believe was originally scheduled for the week or 2 after her disappearance. MONEY AND CUSTODY were clearly at issue way back in May, 2019. Nothing in this regard has changed and its 1/20!

Fd IMO lit himself and FORE on fire and poured on gasoline to bring it all to the ground. I'm still not convinced that we understand why it was all done though?

MOO

He was robbing Peter to pay Paul, and the whole mess was about to come tumbling down. I hope the feds are investigating those loans. There are strong indicators of mortgage fraud; given the amount of money borrowed, combined with the fact that Dulos is never going to repay those loans, I cannot imagine that his financial misconduct has gone unnoticed by the feds.

 

[MassGuy]

I think Fotis Dulos killed Jennifer Dulos 100%. The lack of a body and murder weapon though puts this case in rare territory when there's only been a hand full of convictions without a body in Connecticut history. Case looks strong besides that.

That’s because Connecticut, like most states, generally has prosecutors who are more reluctant to push forward without a body.

Those cases don’t even result in charges being filed.

That’s obviously not the case here, and I’m not the least bit concerned about the viability of a guilty verdict.

The prosecutor has to prove that Jennifer is dead, and that Fotis Dulos killed her. We know he was there, we know a great deal of blood was found, and that he dumped incredibly incriminating evidence.

We know when it happened, and where it happened. You don’t need a murder weapon, nor do you even need a motive.

Nationally, cases without a body have a higher conviction rate than cases with a body.

The reason for that is clear, prosecutors only file murder charges when they have a mountain of evidence that overcomes the lack of a body.

No body, no problem.

 

[Catz]

I think Fotis Dulos killed Jennifer Dulos 100%. The lack of a body and murder weapon though puts this case in rare territory when there's only been a hand full of convictions without a body in Connecticut history. Case looks strong besides that.

I think that history doesn’t matter much now a days with all the amazing advances we see in data collection, cell phones, security cameras, and especially DNA evidence. MOO.

 

[oceancalling]

KM Neighbor speaks to Fox61:
EXCLUSIVE: Neighbors shaken by arrest of Kent Mawhinney


Excellent summary!

One of the many things I find baffling about this Sturbridge Project is that The Savings Bank of Danbury described in its motion that Fd had 'no equity' in the project. Perhaps the 'Friend Loans' are the equity in the deal? IDK. Very curious if those 'Friend Loans' were ever funded!?!?!?

Mmmm.

Construction lending in CT has long been in the doldrums IMO and never really recovered from the time of the financial collapse. Lending standards are conservative so to see a 'no equity' spec development deal from a small bank like The Savings Bank of Danbury or even a multimillion dollar loan deal at People's Bank in Bridgeport really has me scratching my head as to what is going on at each of these lending institutions as both have FDIC insurance I believe!

No money down, dollar and a dream real estate loans went the way of the dodo ages ago and so to see them offered up to the likes of Fd who was in the middle of a contentious divorce with an uncertain financial future, no State taxes filed for 2 years by all accounts, no Federal taxes filed for 2 years by all accounts and ongoing civil litigation is for the most part the trifecta required for a loan denial. YET, we don't see this at all. Nope, we see 2 local banks lending to the tune of nearly $7 million dollars. HOW? WHY? and ON WHAT BASIS?

Frankly, People's Bank in Bridgeport is a repeat player here IMO with Fd as we go back to the 123 Hunter situation with MT, GV and Fd AND SUE MORIN who was deposed about the matter in Family Court and took the 5th.

I do very much wonder what is going on here at both of these banks as based on virtually any lending standard I can imagine for commercial construction lending the Sturbridge project makes zero sense. How was Fd able to remove the contribution of the land from the deal upfront (he paid $1.5 million at auction for the property if I recall) and then fund both hard and soft costs via The Savings Bank of Danbury? WHO was responsible for this loan and I do very much wonder if there was perhaps other connections at play here perhaps at Senior Levels that bear investigation IMO. Even established builders in lower Fairfield County who do beautiful work don't have the ability to do deals with no equity and deals are typically hard costs only too. Little here with this loan or the People's Bank loans makes sense.

I do wonder why we aren't seeing People's Bank entering the litigation fray here either. I find this quite odd given the circumstances and the high probability that their loans are non performing at the moment too. What is also quite interesting is that my recollection is that People's Bank actively uses the firm Pullman & Comley (of which Anne Dranginis (GF atty) is a Partner I believe). So, perhaps Atty Dranginis might pop in and have a chat with one of her colleagues that handles some of the People's Bank legal work as perhaps they aren't aware that they have a non performing loan on their books (BTW I don't believe they don't know, I just don't know why they don't seem to be doing anything via the Courts to protect their position and effect collection).

Its officially a mess and the race to the courthouses in CT to register claims seems to be underway.

What I am interested in finding out is if there was fraudulent activity involved in any of the loans and were loan proceeds used to pay legal fees and/or other creditors? It all seems like a giant 'kite' IMO where Fd was on an ongoing quest for more loan proceeds which would be used to pay other creditors and it just kept rolling until it stopped (or maybe it hasn't stopped!?!). Here is a simple conceptual explanation of this process of kiting: Check kiting Definition | Bankrate.com. Quick visual is that you are taking $ from Peter to pay Paul and on and on.

IMO what Fd did as he didn't have ongoing income is simply borrow more in order to pay interest. At a certain point this was no longer possible which is why the Sturbridge loan interest went unpaid and my guess is that funds that would have been used by Fd to pay interest, taxes etc. were instead used to pay the good folks of Pattisville who were of more immediate importance to Fd.

I wish Atty Weinstein had gotten to the bottom of the legal fee payment questions in Civil Court. I know he made progress but to see all this cash swirling around with basic financial obligations now in default has me believing that the funds were all diverted to paying Pattisville and PI. Too bad the banks weren't quicker to shut it all down IMO (but I have questions as to why they didn't too as this was no exercise in differential equations IMO)!

We see Fd with huge credit card balances (unsecured so far as we know) that oddly have remained 'current' in status. How is this so? We see Fd using other collateral loan options to gain access to sizeable sums? What collateral was used and did it belong to Fd or was it put up by others?

My guess is that JFd saw the beginnings of all these Fd financial games and her attorney and their PI IMO no doubt had it pretty much squared away in advance in terms of understanding it all during the period just prior to her disappearance as the court hearing I believe was originally scheduled for the week or 2 after her disappearance. MONEY AND CUSTODY were clearly at issue way back in May, 2019. Nothing in this regard has changed and its 1/20!

Fd IMO lit himself and FORE on fire and poured on gasoline to bring it all to the ground. I'm still not convinced that we understand why it was all done though?

MOO

He was robbing Peter to pay Paul,

I missed the previous hundreds of pages so I’d like to ask, where do you guys think Jennifer is?
I was their neighbor in the short time they lived in Avon, and I have friends who were very friendly with them (one tells me I was at a party they came to at her house! I didn’t know them, but it’s a chilling thought.)
Anyway. He gets back to 80 MSR at 12:22. He didn’t have time to drop her off on the way up from NC and she’s not at Waveny Park (she left blood in Tacoma). So she’s somewhere near his home. They clean the truck. By 5:00-ish he had to give it back to Gumienny. Do we assume he had stashed her, for more thorough disposal later? She’s not in parts in the Albany Ave drops, or they’d have found something. She’s not in the Fisher Meadows pond. She’s not on any of his properties. Why did they find her bra and shirt, cut off? Any sign of pants or shoes? Did he have to dispose of her naked to hide identity? If he was going to drop her somewhere, why did he drive straight back to 80 MSR first? So many questions. I wonder if he’s just gotten lucky that she hasn’t been found, or if he really hid her somewhere smart.

He was robbing Peter to pay Paul and the whole mess was about to come tumbling down. I hope the feds are investigating those loans. There are strong indicators of mortgage fraud; given the amount of money borrowed, combined with the fact that Dulos is never going to repay those loans, I cannot imagine that his financial misconduct has gone unnoticed by the feds.

 

[Alathea]

He was robbing Peter to pay Paul,


He was robbing Peter to pay Paul and the whole mess was about to come tumbling down. I hope the feds are investigating those loans. There are strong indicators of mortgage fraud; given the amount of money borrowed, combined with the fact that Dulos is never going to repay those loans, I cannot imagine that his financial misconduct has gone unnoticed by the feds.

And if he didn't ever pay "Paul," he should still be afraid of Paul coming after him - or of "Paul" talking.

He might be safer in jail.

Edit to fix punctuation

 

[Jbetty567]

Deadwood. He would know about it. Pictures 2 and 3 in the gallery in the first article posted above give me bonechills. Nobody would find a body there. Even a stray bone. Because it's an abandoned animal sanctuary... lots of critters now, plenty of natural decomposition. It's a swamp! That's what swamps are!

Late spring, the poison ivy would be king.

A place like this would explain why searchers of his properties have revealed nothing....

Where is Deercliff?

In all the car maneuvering on May 24, perhaps he flew under the radar on a dirtbike????

I hope they're tracking his phone well before May 24th. Because if it's possible he disposed of his wife there, it's probable he'd been there before.

Cool place to take kids for a hike. Except if it's where you plan to bury their mother,

JMO

I lived in Avon one cul de sac over from FD and JFD. They moved on to 4JC, but I lived there for 6.5 years. I’ve never heard of these swamps or abandoned animal shelters. Maybe he would have, since he had a dirt bike and also clearly scoped out potential residential build sites. I can tell you that there is plenty of wooded land, open land, ponds and unsettled areas where she could be.
Also, for whoever inquired about Deercliff: this is the swankiest address in Avon. The road connects Farmington and Avon along the top of the mountain line (Avon mountain separates Avon and West Hartford). Deercliff features huge homes with gorgeous valley views, and most of them are on huge wooded lots down 150+ foot long dirt driveways through the woods. But it’s not “rural.” It’s fancy. This is where Fotis bought the home where his mom died after moving her from the house he had built for her previously, in the same 4-home development in Avon where he and Jennifer lived for a couple of years.
And finally, their previous neighbors (whom I know quite well) both tell me that JFD had 5 nannies at one time. One for each kid. She preferred one on one time with each child.

 

[Jbetty567]

What about the Fore Group suburban that was seen parked in NC that day? AWs do not link it to the crimes. Do we think that nonetheless it was KW, arriving to whisk away the body? How to explain JDFs blood in the Tacoma then? There was enough that it stained the seats.... it wasn’t just a smear.

 

[Ruminations]

I think Fotis Dulos killed Jennifer Dulos 100%. The lack of a body and murder weapon though puts this case in rare territory when there's only been a hand full of convictions without a body in Connecticut history. Case looks strong besides that.

Interesting. @Topppps, What makes you 100% sure Fotis killed Jennifer?

(Edited because I wonder what facts lead @Topppps to feel so sure. There is so much info out there, different pieces of information stick out more or less to each of us that shape our theories.)

 

[afitzy]

When I first read that yesterday, I assumed it was about the former Greek nanny from years ago - the one who ran over Grandma in the car - so that it was in addition to LA (who was the recent nanny at the time of the murder, whom he was already prevented by the court from contacting).

Fd was able to manipulate the former (Greek) nanny when the 'runover' happened, apparently to say whatever Fd wanted her to say - actually, he just talked FOR her, and changed her entire original story.

Wonder if he has tried to contact her - the previous Greek nanny from years ago - recently. It would appear to be so - why else mention it all of a sudden?

Perhaps our 'wish' that the Mama Dulos death investigation be reopened and that it be looked at by a competent detective and medical examiner HAS COME TRUE!

 

[oceancalling]

I missed the previous hundreds of pages so I’d like to ask, where do you guys think Jennifer is?
I was their neighbor in the short time they lived in Avon, and I have friends who were very friendly with them (one tells me I was at a party they came to at her house! I didn’t know them, but it’s a chilling thought.)
Anyway. He gets back to 80 MSR at 12:22. He didn’t have time to drop her off on the way up from NC and she’s not at Waveny Park (she left blood in Tacoma). So she’s somewhere near his home. They clean the truck. By 5:00-ish he had to give it back to Gumienny. Do we assume he had stashed her, for more thorough disposal later? She’s not in parts in the Albany Ave drops, or they’d have found something. She’s not in the Fisher Meadows pond. She’s not on any of his properties. Why did they find her bra and shirt, cut off? Any sign of pants or shoes? Did he have to dispose of her naked to hide identity? If he was going to drop her somewhere, why did he drive straight back to 80 MSR first? So many questions. I wonder if he’s just gotten lucky that she
hasn’t been found, or if he really hid her somewhere smart.

In these days of DNA testing, removing Jennifer's clothing would not have prevented her identification in any
way. So we have to assume they removed (my recollection is they were cut) from her body for a specific reason. I would not be too sure that she wasn't part of that garbage dump. A whole lot of garbage was destroyed before LE began its search at MIRA.

The use of waste sites is not at all uncommon. In one smallish city in NE FL, there have been 3 of them in about a year. None of the bodies have been found; 2 of the 3 have seen the defendant charged and there is an outstanding AW on the 3rd. Note, these are 3 separate murders! So, do not discount that theory; Dulos is not the criminal mastermind he believes himself to be.

Also, I will not be surprised if the forensics on his computer hasn't already told LE his intended method of disposal. IMO there is more to be revealed. I suspect his computer has been a forensic goldmine.

 

[annekris]

I'm interested in knowing how many WS think either KM or MT will take a Plea agreement? One, both, or none?

KM he will take a plea agreement MOO simply because he planned to kill his wife but did not get a chance to do so while FD actually did

MT No plea bc her involvement is far greater than what it may seem, actually handling evidence and maybe even poor Jennifer’s body, and she is trauma bonded to FD MOO

 

[oceancalling]

Interesting. What makes you 100% sure Fotis killed Jennifer?

The evidence.

 

[MassGuy]

KM he will take a plea agreement MOO simply because he planned to kill his wife but did not get a chance to do so while FD actually did

MT No plea bc her involvement is far greater than what it may seem, actually handling evidence and maybe even poor Jennifer’s body, and she is trauma bonded to FD MOO

Yes, I believe that he is the weakest link by far.

MT has two things working against her:

She appears to be more involved than KM, and destroyed her value by telling provable lie after provable lie.

 

[Ruminations]

The evidence.

I would ask you “which evidence?” if you were Topppps- but you have already elaborated at length, LOL.

 

[Alathea]

I think she’s protecting her Mother.
Also, two of the cases Bowman cited in his Obj to her Deposition involved racketeering and falsifying documents.
That’s sounds like something Mom would be involved in.

Well, to be fair, those are things Michelle's Mom was already proven to be quite adept at, no?

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/page/file/868891/download

Jennifer Dulos case: Michelle Troconis’ mother faced her own legal trouble

 

[afitzy]

I think we're agreed that MT hasn't flipped bc she's in too deep. But maybe she's not protecting HERSELF. What if she's not flipping bc of what FD might know. A blackmail pact. If she rolls, who can FD damn? Who else might MT be protecting? Who does she care about THIS much?

Because all she needs to do is explain where FD got the poison ivy... or the nuances of his long-running revenge plot.... or what happened at 80 MS... or where FD went by himself that afternoon and with what mode of transportation. LE only needs a direction --

But her pursed lips appear to remain sealed. Why?

JMO

IMO ONLY - One way or another with MT it has to relate to something FD has on her AND possibly the impact of Mama A or knowledge or participation of Mama A in the defense plan for MT.

Based on what we have seen since the beginning of this case, I cannot disconnect MT and her family and they ALL seemed quite vested in the MT/Fd relationship from the beginning when pictures of the family with the couple weren't at all being hidden, even though both parties were still quite obviously married to others. Trips from family members to 4Jx happened on a regular basis too.

This was a family that by all accounts was close to their sister and supportive of her relationship with Fd. My suspicion is that nothing happens in the clan without the knowledge or approval of Mama A. MT oddly seems incapable of taking care of herself too so when Fd was not around to direct her activities then we see Mama A clearly stepping in to fill the void to the point where she was seen numerous times actually taking MT to appts with Atty Bowman and also showing up at key meetings with Atty Colangelo. MT is 45 years old.

In the DM article that had the multiple shots of Fd and MT as they were taken away to Litchfield for DNA processing, Mama A is in clear evidence IMO and took care of MT daughter. When did Mama A come to CT in terms of days after JFd disappearance? We know MT had engaged Atty Bowman in advance of her arrest and we know Mama A was present when MT and Fd were taken to Litchfield. But, when exactly did Mama A show up in CT. How much about what MT knows does Mama A know?

The 'unique skillset' for lack of a better phrase that Mama A posses quite clearly would have been appealing to any possible plan that Fd/MT and KM (and possibly others) might have cooked up. The extended MT 'clan' and relationships also broadens the geographic reach of activities into LA/SA too which offers various advantages to people and various products.

I could be grasping at straws here but MT really doesn't demonstrate a history of gainful employment as she moved from one guy to the next and lived off of them, her child support from Begue isn't huge relative to the cost of private school in CT and Fd was paying her it seems even when he didn't have any 'income'. Fd himself hadn't sold a house, had no visible income and YET see extensive travel and no diminishment in lifestyle for MT and FD.

The money the pair were living off of IMO must have been coming from some other source and possible activities that aren't visible yet based on the AWs. Its possible Fd funded the lifestyle with ever increasing credit card debt but my guess is that went to atty's and divorce litigation. I'm not even sure based on what we know how Fd might have been paying MT $120,000 a year at the same time he was paying $0 in child support for his 5 children.

Its financial alchemy unlike anything I've seen recently and I'm sure its all a lot simpler than any of us can imagine. It would IMO be no problem for a single illicit business to fund the lifestyle of MT/Fd and perhaps the KM connection is that he documented it all to make it look legal?

IDK, will have to stay tuned and see if LE figure it all out. LE in AW 3 was just on the bank debt and IMO that is the easiest part of the equation here.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

And if he didn't ever pay "Paul," he should still be afraid of Paul coming after him - or of "Paul" talking.

He might be safer in jail.

Edit to fix punctuation

I think KM is the smartest of the bunch here as he chose to stay in protective custody. Funny times when its the atty that chooses to stay locked up. To me, that is quite telling as even though he is pleading poverty at the moment it is highly likely that friends and family are available to bond KM out. KM is also in the middle of a high contentious divorce where he too has been pleading poverty. Funny how financial choices come back to roost at the most inconvenient times!

 

[Boxer]

I think that history doesn’t matter much now a days with all the amazing advances we see in data collection, cell phones, security cameras, and especially DNA evidence. MOO.

I agree.
The place the Tacoma was parked on Lapham was very good idea, for a crime committed 5 years ago. No houses, for witnesses or Ring videos, cars often there for the park, not memorable, no On-Star in the vehicle. The school bus camera was a stroke of luck for JF.
However once that vehicle was seen in security video from the bus, every thing about where it came from, where it went, who it belonged to was in the investigation.
I think FD was aware he would possibly be Ring video'd on the way from Lapham to 69 Welles but likely thought to be a shadowy perp on a bike then going through the woods parallel just past Indian Springs.
But just like Jesse Smollet found, the police now can find how the criminal got to the crime and how they left due to citizen surveillance. with no way to tell where they are.
School Bus cameras were added in NC in 2014 to catch drivers who pass stopped school busses.