Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #46

[Dacaesar]

Rena Dulos also says it is, "only the beginning of the wolves clawing at the door to Mr. Dulos' estate."

Sister says Dulos estate was “under attack” as Fotis was still clinging to life

A classic case of projection, if ever there was one.

 

[Ruminations]

Interpeter or translator should come or speak Spanish from the area MT Venezuela home is/was. So defense cannot plead later they had the wrong Spanish dialect translator.



I was going to ask about the GAG Order. LE and Prosecution are upholding the order, so is KM and his attorney from what I see....why is MT and new team so special? Why has the Judge not done something about this? Oh, maybe because Schoenhorn does not feel he has to follow the order because he was not acting attorney at the time.

This is some divorce, murder, suicide case. Students will be studying this for years!

JS was just getting around the gag order by talking about not talking. Oldest trick in the book. And, of course, making himself and his client victims while talking about not talking.

Pattis: I'm not talking because the mean judge won't let me- I'm a victim because I have a constitutional right to lie about the victim as long as I use conditional words like "could."

Schoenhorn: I'm not talking because it is not time [to draw attention to the gag order or get busted violating it]. I am a victim because I am so interesting reporters call me in the middle of the night to tell me my phone is still on.

 

[Seattle1]

Dave Altimari‏ @davealtimari
One of the big issues in Dulos divorce case was a child custody report by Dr. Stephen Herman. A secret hearing on the details of it was halted a week later before Jennifer disappeared, Now the judge who oversaw the case wants laws amended.

Judge in Dulos divorce case proposes new laws regarding child custody disputes

3:47 PM - 10 Feb 2020

 

[Seattle1]

Judge in Dulos divorce case proposes new laws regarding child custody disputes

2/19/2020

The judge who oversaw the bitter Dulos divorce case, which she recently dismissed after Fotis Dulos’ death, asked a judicial rules committee Monday to amend the statutes regarding the use of child custody experts to streamline the process and make it more transparent.

[..]

Among the changes Judge Donna Heller suggests are: a court order specifying the amount an expert is to be paid and how that cost will be split; the amount they will be paid separately to testify if asked; the professional credentials of the evaluator; and a 30-day deadline for the expert to file the results of their report with the court under seal.

[..]

Heller held secret court hearings on May 14 and May 17 where Herman [Dr Steven Herman] testified about his report. During the second hearing sources said Herman left the courtroom and failed to finish testifying. Herman had been paid $20,000 to do the report and then he asked Dulos to pay him an additional $8,000 to testify about it in court.

A week after the last hearing, Jennifer Farber Dulos disappeared and police found evidence that she was attacked in the garage of her New Canaan home. Her body has never been found.

 

[MollyDDD]

Thank you....just hard when the PTS acts up....

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::hugs:::::::::::::::::::::::

 

[MollyDDD]

I'd suggest a good read of AW3 again for MT (I did it again tonight and took more notes) as IMO there are some nuggets of gold left by LE IMO about who MT is and how she operates.

We've talked for many threads about the different kinds of intelligence possessed by Fd, MT and KM. But I think that LE was laying the foundation for releasing more information about MT and her role in the murder of JFd that will no doubt be shocking, even for those that have been here since the beginning of this case.

I don't think its possible based on the limited facts we have in AW1-3 to posture MT as someone unaware or uninvolved in this case at all. MT in AW1-3 has been clearly in lockstep with Fd every step of the way and for lack of a better description is a true partner in crime, along with KM. The Civil Case provided so much useful information too as to the level of absolutely involvement of MT in the life of Fd and FORE and at times it seemed that the two were simply unable to be separated. Wherever you saw Fd then there was MT.

The scene of Fd and MT at 80 MS with EE and the truck I think was a brilliant example provided by LE as to the nature of the Fd and MT relationship. MT knew precisely what Fd wanted her to do with the keys to the EE truck and Fd didn't have to verbalise a thing! MT knew what to do IMO because she knew what the truck had been used for and what had been going on at 80MS and what had happened at 69/71 Welles. MT knew everything and so didn't have to ask for verbal instructions because she was in lockstep with Fd longstanding plan to murder JFd. She might not have basic intelligence or be very bright to the level of being able to memorise and convincingly lie about the 'alibi script' but this lack of brightness doesn't make her any less of a participant in the brutal murder of JFd IMO.

MOO

You, my dear should be on the prosecution’s team. Brilliant, as always.
MT can change her lawyer and her lawyer can change the venue, but the facts and the evidence remains unchanged.

 

[afitzy]

Schoenhorn is no stranger to the news media. But he says this case has drawn intense interest, prompting late-night media calls, including a request for a midnight interview.
A former Connecticut newspaper reporter, Schoenhorn’s 38-year law practice has included a slew of recognizable names. For instance, he represented James “Bo” Gritz, a former Green Beret lieutenant colonel who was the inspiration for the movie “Rambo.” The attorney defended Gritz, who’d been charged with attempted kidnapping in Suffield in the 1990s.
The Jon. L. Schoenhorn & Associates principal and former president of the Criminal Defense Lawyers Association has represented murder suspects, plaintiffs in constitutional law issues and challenged youth-curfew laws.
Her lawyer suggested Troconis has become a scapegoat after the death of the prosecutors’ prime suspect.
“Michelle was a bit player,” Schoenhorn said Monday. “But now that the big fish is gone, they are turning to who is left to justify millions of [taxpayers'] dollars in … investigation.”
Influx of requests
Schoenhorn said he knows how to handle the media, having worked two stints with the Republican-American newspaper. This time, though, he concedes the media has inundated him with requests.
“There has been a lot of hounding,” Schoenhorn said. “I’ve been asked to appear on every network news outlets magazine show and their prime-time shows. I’m not shy by any means, but those requests are not appropriate at this time.”
While Schoenhorn has spoken to some local media outlets, he said he doesn’t plan on doing an all-out media blitz until he has more facts about the case.
“It’s annoying to get a text at 11:30 p.m. … from a national network asking if I’d do a midnight Skype interview to appear the next day,” he said. “They asked if I’d mind, and I said I would.”
Schoenhorn, 65, said he can do without the “snarky tweets by some in the media, especially the New York media.”
“I believe in communicating facts, but I want the public to know what is happening, to know the truth, and to distinguish between fact, speculation and fiction,” he said,

Meanwhile, Schoenhorn said he was never given the police interviews with his client, despite assurances he’d get them. When he does get those interviews, Schoenhorn said, he’ll look at the possibility that language barriers could have affected Troconis’ answers to police. Her first language is Spanish.

Chief State’s Attorney Richard Colangelo, who is prosecuting the case, declined to comment because the matter is pending.
The next court date is March 20.
Since the alleged crimes occurred in Hartford and Avon, Schoenhorn said the case should be heard in Hartford and not in Norwalk and Stamford, where it’s currently being heard.
He said, “We will work on getting the case back to where it belongs.”

Hartford Lawyer in Troconis Case Says He's Never Been Hounded Like This Before | Connecticut Law Tribune

One word.

Putz.

MOO

 

[Southernsnooper]

FD aggressive atty led him to the grave. MOO.

Exactly. Be careful what you wish for, MT!
Moo

 

[casesensitive]

I wish we still had that option of lighting candles. One for Jennifer, and one (or five) for her children, to show how much we cared about their mother and cared about them. It would have been nice for them to see that, if and when they find WS.

 

[sleuth66]

Does anyone think it’s at all possible that Rena believes that FD has an estate, that he was making tons of money, that he was paying his mortgage and child support et al? I don’t but... there’s got to be some logical way to explain her behavior.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/neil-entwistles-father-explains-never-2492180

Here’s a case where it was very clear that the son had murdered his wife and child (issues similar to FD- living beyond means, driving a BMW when work life tanked, affairs, etc) but the father just can’t accept it and tried to use the courts to say how unfair it is, etc.
Reminds me of Rena.

 

[MollyDDD]

Michelle Troconis Had Expired Passport, Contact With Fotis: State


Quotes from article:

STAMFORD, CT — Despite being instructed months ago to relinquish all passports following her first arrest, Michelle Troconis has been holding onto an expired Venezuelan passport for several months, Chief State's Attorney Richard Colangelo said in court Friday. [BBM]

Troconis and her new attorney, Jon Schoenhorn, appeared before Judge Gary White in Stamford Superior Court on Friday to argue for a modification to the terms of her release. She is free on bond after having been arrested three times in connection with the murder of Jennifer Farber Dulos.

The most recent arrest last month was on a charge of conspiracy to commit murder. Schoenhorn entered a plea of not guilty to the charge on Friday.

Colangelo said that Troconis had turned over her United States passport, but had not disclosed the existence of the Venezuelan one. [BBM]

Additionally, he said that he was trying to track down confirmation that Troconis had been in contact with former co-defendant and boyfriend, the late Fotis Dulos, through an unnamed third-party at some point last year.


She and Fotis Dulos were prohibited by the court from contacting one another; Dulos committed suicide last week.[BBM]

Schoenhorn denied the allegation about contact with Dulos. "We know nothing about any third-party contact."

White ordered Troconis to turn over the expired passport as soon as possible. [BBM]

“As soon as possible”? The fact that she didn’t do it from the start shows a conscious and deliberate intention to deceive the court. Lock ‘er up!!!

 

[CTGrammy]

In regards to MT having a Court Interpreter.

YES, MT is definitely entitled to an Interpreter.

However, I think some may be Missing The Point.

MT Actively REFUSED an Interpreter from Day 1 when she was Specifically Offered an Interpreter.

This makes it all the more 'Suspect' when 'all of a sudden' she 'Needs' an Interpreter, the Very Minute she has a New Attorney.

No One is saying that she is not entitled to the Interpreter.

Basically, Everyone is saying, 'Why NOW' and 'What has Changed'?

What has Changed, besides the Attorney? Nothing, IMO.

JS is USING this avenue of MT 'not understanding English' and I think he will Definitely Try to get the MT interviews with LE, thrown out.

NOT GOING TO WORK, though.

It has Already Backfired on JS when we see MT in court, struggling with the headset and removing the one on her left ear and listening to Everything in ENGLISH.

In fact, MT looks Exasperated that she is even having to deal with the headset and the overtly loud interpreter standing next to her.

Misstep all around.

IMO.

 

[afitzy]

One of the big issues in Dulos divorce case was a child custody report by Dr. Stephen Herman. A secret hearing on the details of it was halted a week later before Jennifer disappeared, Now the judge who oversaw the case wants laws amended.
Among the changes Judge Donna Heller suggests are: a court order specifying the amount an expert is to be paid and how that cost will be split; the amount they will be paid separately to testify if asked; the professional credentials of the evaluator; and a 30-day deadline for the expert to file the results of their report with the court under seal.Heller’s proposed changes came in a two-page letter to the Rules Committee of the Superior Court, which met Monday. Meanwhile, Heller’s reappointment Monday sailed through the legislature’s Judiciary Committee without anyone asking her any questions about the Dulos case. She still must be approved by the entire legislature. Heller declined to comment Monday.
While Heller didn’t mention the Dulos divorce in her letter, one of the biggest issues in that case was the child custody report submitted by Dr. Steven Herman last April and the battle over its contents in the days before Jennifer Farber Dulos disappeared...
If Heller’s proposed rule changes had been in effect there would have been several differences in how the Herman report unfolded in the Dulos case. Herman would have had a specific time frame to finish his report, which took longer than anticipated. Herman was at least a month late to submit his report claiming that he had been sick.
Under Heller’s proposed changes Herman also would have had to submit the report to the court — and not to Michael Meehan, the court-appointed guardian ad litem in the case. In the Dulos case, her attorney Rueben Midler accused the guardian ad litem, who is appointed by the judge, of distributing the report to Dulos’ then-attorney Michael Rose. Midler filed a motion asking that Heller remove Meehan as the guardian ad litem because he “gave and permitted access to the report to the Defendant and his counsel and thereby disseminated its contents without authorization from the court.”
Heller was angry that Herman’s report wasn’t immediately sealed and was circulated at least among the attorneys. and that somehow Dulos himself had a copy of it. State police found a copy of the report in his Jefferson Crossing home when they searched it last June.
Heller formally dismissed the Dulos divorce case last week after his attorney had informed the court he had died. Heller hadn’t held a hearing on the case in the months following Farber Dulos’ disappearance.

Judge in Dulos divorce case proposes new laws regarding child custody disputes

Guilt IMO can be a powerful motivator to personal change for some folks. Perhaps this guilt motivated some of the Judge Heller suggestions on rule changes today? IDK, personally I just wish Judge Heller had done the citizens of the sad State of CT and the Family Court system a HUGE favor and simply resigned from the Bench. Going back to corporate litigation in the private sector IMO would do all the children and parents that pass through her Court one big favor IMO. IMO Judge Heller did nothing to safeguard the interests and emotional well being of the 5 Dulos children and no words for her absolute inability to understand the DV issues surrounding JFd and the impact of it on the divorce case.

Did Judge Heller feel any degree of guilt for any of the various and IMO many administrative issues that plagued the Dulos divorce case where Judge Heller chose to exert no control? IMO highly doubtful.

The infamous psych report was just one particularly horrific example of what I believe to be weak management from the bench. GAL Meehan, for whom I am not sure words exist within TOS to adequately describe, was well within the control of Judge Heller and time and time again Judge Heller did nothing to remove, reprimand or punish GAL Meehan who clearly stepped over the line in providing early preview access to Fd Atty of the infamous psych report.

The idea that Judge Heller did zero IMO to protect the confidential report from the Public and allowed Atty Pattis to resign via behind closed door meeting told me more than I ever want to know about Judge Heller and her willingness to protect the confidential information that is shared in her courtroom. Why didn't Judge Heller terminate Herman when his report was late? Why didn't Judge Heller order the report sealed and/or set guidelines for the dissemination of the report UPFRONT? Frankly in reading the file, it is seen that over and over that Judge Heller was simply a passive passenger in her own Courtroom and the train was being driven over and around her by GAL Meehan and attorneys who appeared unrestrained by any level of discipline from the bench. IMO it was about as pathetic a showing from a Judge as I've seen in many years and the results sadly speak for themselves, 5 children with no parents!

There are many reasons I believe Judge Heller should not be part of the Family Court system but I think the principal one is that I believe she did next to zero to safeguard the 5 Dulos children and their interests and I think Judge Heller did less than zero to safeguard Jennifer Farber Dulos who over and over made very clear testimony to the Court about her views about Fotis Dulos.

Judge Heller seemed frozen and unsure what to do when JFd was first declared missing. This would be ok for a few days, but to see absolutely ZERO done by Judge Heller to safeguard the marital assets in a divorce case in her courtroom for a missing person was something that I don't think I will ever forget. IMO if Judge Heller were to do something in terms of legislative reform it would be to figure out how the protect the marital assets if one of the parties to a divorce goes missing! Fd I am sure ransacked the marital assets and no doubt used them to pay his many attorneys. Did Judge Heller do anything to stop this from happening? NO, IMO she did not. Judge Heller simply proved how easy it is for Judges in CT to turn a blind eye when one spouse allegedly kills another spouse and then spits in the eye of the State (and the Judge) by then taking marital assets to which they are not entitled. Judge Heller did nothing to protect the marital assets of JFd and for this reason (amongst many many others) I believe she has no place on the bench in CT in ANY court!

I also question whether Judge Heller had adequate training in high conflict cases and had the necessary skill set for handling the case. Why was the Dulos case not moved to a Judge trained to deal with the issues when it was clear that the case was beyond the skillset of Judge Heller? IDK. The inability to get to any resolution on the Fd financial issues over a 2 year period to me showed over and over a weak Judge that was in over their head and was unwilling to impose consequences of any kind for non compliance. It doesn't seem that the Dulos case should have been handled by an inexperienced Judge with perhaps limited understanding or training in DV. The process of dealing with the psychologist for the older children and the referral to CPS was another tragedy of Judge Heller mismanagement IMO. Why did a senior Judge not step in to take charge of a badly deteriorating situation in Family Court? IDK but I do know that the Dulos children were worse off due to the presence of Judge Heller and JFd lost her life in part due to a divorce action that was absolutely out of control due to mismanagement by Judge Heller IMO.

I do know that JFd and the 5 Dulos children deserved better than Judge Heller, a lot better and its pathetic to think that the State of CT today let her renewal 'sail through' with no questions.

IDK if a file review of Judge Heller's cases over a long period of time has been undertaken by a higher authority in the Judiciary but I have to say that IMO it might be a worthwhile exercise such that other Judges don't repeat the many errors and omissions and IMO poor management practices of Judge Heller. GAL reform in CT is another topic and it played a key role in the Dulos case as well. But again and again, Judge Heller did nothing to deal with the situation with GAL Meehan who IMO is someone who should NOT be permitted to be a GAL in CT Family Court based on his many ethical shortcomings in the Dulos case.

It was a bad day today IMO for the CT Courts that Judge Heller's ap

 

[Diddian]

Anyone else notice? FORE Group website has been suspended.

I tried to access today to take another look at the various completed and available projects, but discovered it suspended.

Any idea who did that?

 

[Canchance]

Anyone else notice? FORE Group website has been suspended.

I tried to access today to take another look at the various completed and available projects, but discovered it suspended.

Any idea who did that?

Non payment ?

 

[CTGrammy]

Anyone else notice? FORE Group website has been suspended.

I tried to access today to take another look at the various completed and available projects, but discovered it suspended.

Any idea who did that?

The FORE Group website was created and maintained by Digidemon in Greece.

 

[afitzy]

Guess he doesn’t know about the gag order yet also...

While Schoenhorn has spoken to some local media outlets, he said he doesn’t plan on doing an all-out media blitz until he has more facts about the case.

Hartford Lawyer in Troconis Case Says He's Never Been Hounded Like This Before | Connecticut Law Tribune

Can this situation with Atty S become any more laughable? Its almost like watching a cartoon play out in real life!

Sounds like we have an atty spending all his time talking to the Press about not talking and then talking further about how he doesn't have all the facts about the case.

Well, everybody only gets 24 hrs in a day so perhaps the first step would be to have an asst field calls. YIKEs! I know, this is kinda threatening as all the big and bad and evil NY Press are out there circling and god know what they will do and say without your interference!

Short suggestion to Atty S. Don't pick up the phone. Nope, just don't do it. The Press aren't going anywhere and will be there until this case goes to trial and the jury rules. PS Please stop demonising the NY Press, it makes you look to be foolish, lacking confidence, weak and an atty without a plan for your accused murderer client, MT.

Please just open your briefcase and start reading the files about your client, MT. Yes, the very same files you roundly criticised Atty Bowman for returning to Atty Colangelo as is required by the Court. The same files that Judge White ripped you a new one for wasting his time complaining about them in Court the other day!

Remember your client? Yes, the one who you said needs a translator but who ripped off her headset in Court the other day to listen to everything in ENGLISH and whose entire family was in the gallery speaking english while you were the only one speaking Spanish to them? Yep, MT. She has been accused of conspiracy to commit murder and she is in very very deep trouble so its important to her that you stop talking to the Press and about the Press and actually DO YOUR JOB!

Another suggestion. Judge Blawie (you haven't met him yet but I'm sure you will at some point) wrote a very well thought out IMO gag order in this case. Yes, this is an important document because the CT Supreme Court still hasn't ruled on the gag order but the order still stands. So, you might want to just check your comments about your client MT against the Judge Blawie gag order as IMO more than a few of your comments stepped way over the mark the other day. You know what they say about 'ignorance of the law not being an excuse and all that' and frankly I don't think Judge White is going to want to hear that the gag order documents were at the bottom of your briefcase and you just didn't have enough time to get there because the Press just wouldn't stop calling you!?!?!?

Please just read the files....pretty please!

MOO

 

[afitzy]

Just found this video from 2017 on Old Mountain Rd in Farmington, CT, not sure why it didn't come up in prior searches on youtube. Wonder if these properties were ever built and whether Fd still owns this land or did he option this land.

390 Old Mountain Rd, Farmington, CT 06032 - realtor.com®
MOO

 

[afitzy]

I want clarification on your bolded statement as well.

Does the bold text only apply to the person the charge is being filed against? If so, there is no evidence (that we, the public, know of) that MT did any action outside of Hartford county.

It was mentioned that LE hasn't corroborated MT's alibi for the morning of 5/24, but, unless I missed something, we don't know one way or another whether they have. Our lack of knowledge does not mean LE doesn't know exactly where MT was for most, if not all, of the morning. Maybe she DID take action outside of Hartford county, but JS wouldn't know that based on the AWs (one of which we know he hadn't even read yet).

We (the collective WS we) are more familiar with the case than JS was Friday morning, but we also don't have all of the evidence amassed. I don't think JS is out of line trying for a change of venue based on supposed location of crimes charged, but none of our thoughts on the matter will ultimately decide the outcome. It's a technicality that will either fly, or it won't.

Does the bold text only apply to the person the charge is being filed against? If so, there is no evidence (that we, the public, know of) that MT did any action outside of Hartford county.

The statement made above about 'actions outside of Hartford County' seem to be hitting the threads here on repeat from a variety of sources and I'm truly baffled why this has any relevancy to much of anything other than to statements made by MT new attorney who claims that he hasn't read the files and doesn't have enough information to speak about the case YET felt compelled to file a motion in Court to change the case location to Hartford BUT said he wasn't prepared to discuss his motion in Court the other day. Perhaps this kind of stuff happens routinely in Hartford Courts but it was a bit confusing in Stamford the other day and even gave Atty Colangelo pause as he seemed to bite his tongue and stopped himself from asking, "then why did you file the motion?". The look on Judge Whites face was quite priceless too as he appeared equally baffled. It was quite a performance for the first 'day in the school' IMO!

IMO Atty S simply seemed to be blowing smoke to accommodate no doubt the request/demand of Mama A and the attorney who she might just have managing this case behind the scenes.

I asked the question the other day but didn't get an answer so I will repeat it again now:

A person is murdered in New Canaan, CT and the perps travel to Los Angeles, CA with the body and the evidence, where they are ultimately arrested. Along the way of travelling via car from CT to CA the perps dispose of evidence in each of the states they travel through on their trip. In which state and courthouse location will this case be tried once the perps are captured and arrested for murder in CA based on an AW from CT?

Hint: I believe this to be a rhetorical question.

MOO

 

[Tink56]

One of the big issues in Dulos divorce case was a child custody report by Dr. Stephen Herman. A secret hearing on the details of it was halted a week later before Jennifer disappeared, Now the judge who oversaw the case wants laws amended.
Among the changes Judge Donna Heller suggests are: a court order specifying the amount an expert is to be paid and how that cost will be split; the amount they will be paid separately to testify if asked; the professional credentials of the evaluator; and a 30-day deadline for the expert to file the results of their report with the court under seal.Heller’s proposed changes came in a two-page letter to the Rules Committee of the Superior Court, which met Monday. Meanwhile, Heller’s reappointment Monday sailed through the legislature’s Judiciary Committee without anyone asking her any questions about the Dulos case. She still must be approved by the entire legislature. Heller declined to comment Monday.
While Heller didn’t mention the Dulos divorce in her letter, one of the biggest issues in that case was the child custody report submitted by Dr. Steven Herman last April and the battle over its contents in the days before Jennifer Farber Dulos disappeared...
If Heller’s proposed rule changes had been in effect there would have been several differences in how the Herman report unfolded in the Dulos case. Herman would have had a specific time frame to finish his report, which took longer than anticipated. Herman was at least a month late to submit his report claiming that he had been sick.
Under Heller’s proposed changes Herman also would have had to submit the report to the court — and not to Michael Meehan, the court-appointed guardian ad litem in the case. In the Dulos case, her attorney Rueben Midler accused the guardian ad litem, who is appointed by the judge, of distributing the report to Dulos’ then-attorney Michael Rose. Midler filed a motion asking that Heller remove Meehan as the guardian ad litem because he “gave and permitted access to the report to the Defendant and his counsel and thereby disseminated its contents without authorization from the court.”
Heller was angry that Herman’s report wasn’t immediately sealed and was circulated at least among the attorneys. and that somehow Dulos himself had a copy of it. State police found a copy of the report in his Jefferson Crossing home when they searched it last June.
Heller formally dismissed the Dulos divorce case last week after his attorney had informed the court he had died. Heller hadn’t held a hearing on the case in the months following Farber Dulos’ disappearance.

Judge in Dulos divorce case proposes new laws regarding child custody disputes

While reading the entire article, I was shocked to know that either NP was the source of the information or DA changed the facts or the information as reported incorrectly in court last year.

Last year when NP brought the report up in court and asked to use it in the defense of FD, he stated Attorney Rochlin "discovered" it while looking for Fd's passport at 4JX. Now, DA says LE found a copy of the report. Soooooo, did Attorney R make a copy of the report in Fd's office and leave the original? Does DA want the reader to forget the report was stolen? I am unimpressed with changing facts that are so well known. IMO...MOO.