Still Missing CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #56

[Seattle1]

According to what PG told LE: On the Tuesday after he returned to work (Monday was Memorial Day I believe) after JFd's disappearance, PG found the bucket with sweatshirt inside in the back of his pickup. Thinking FD had at some time left it there, he moved the bucket with sweatshirt inside to FD's laundry room.

ETA: From page 24 of the Troconis Arrest Warrant signed 1/6/2020:
View attachment 442569

Thanks, @Diddian -- so per the AW, by all accounts, the sweatshirt could be the property of anybody and it was made an issue by Team MT/Fd because it allegedly contained PG's DNA which is highly probable since PG reported that he moved the bucket with the sweatshirt from the back of the truck to Fd's laundry room.

The idea the duo attempted to link PG to Jennifer's murder because they planted bloody seats on PW PG and the defendant's attorney preserved the sweatshirt is so typical of this group.

JMO

 

[pernickety]

I'm so curious whether the bucket came from JFD's place. IIRC, the nanny had pointed out a few things that she noticed were missing - including at least one camp pillow that had been on shelves in JFD's garage. Clearly, the bicyclist in the navy sweatshirt pedaling his way to JFD's place that morning wasn't carrying a bucket in that surveillance photo.

If the prosecution wanted JS disqualified bc they wanted to call him as a witness as to where he got the pail with the sweatshirt, etc. in it, they’d also have to call MT’s former atty, Bowman, bc he admitted giving it to JS. Bowman said he couldn’t quite remember where he got it, but it wasn’t from the defendant, and he thought NP gave it to him. NP would be the obvious source, having gotten it from FD, and after FD’s death passed it on to Bowman. But wasn’t that evidence that FD was concealing from the investigation? Remember, FD and MT were first arrested for concealing evidence, by disposing of the blood-stained clothing, etc. NP would have to be called as a witness, too. If he helped FD conceal from LE that he had the pail with the sweatshirt (that PG said he found in his vehicle and put in FD’s laundry room) wouldn’t NP also be guilty of conspiracy to obstruct the investigation? Crime is an exception to the attorney-client privilege. That’s something I’ve wondered about.

 

[Diddian]

If the prosecution wanted JS disqualified bc they wanted to call him as a witness as to where he got the pail with the sweatshirt, etc. in it, they’d also have to call MT’s former atty, Bowman, bc he admitted giving it to JS. Bowman said he couldn’t quite remember where he got it, but it wasn’t from the defendant, and he thought NP gave it to him. NP would be the obvious source, having gotten it from FD, and after FD’s death passed it on to Bowman. But wasn’t that evidence that FD was concealing from the investigation? Remember, FD and MT were first arrested for concealing evidence, by disposing of the blood-stained clothing, etc. NP would have to be called as a witness, too. If he helped FD conceal from LE that he had the pail with the sweatshirt (that PG said he found in his vehicle and put in FD’s laundry room) wouldn’t NP also be guilty of conspiracy to obstruct the investigation? Crime is an exception to the attorney-client privilege. That’s something I’ve wondered about.

You and me both. I speculated in writing here sometime probably years ago now that I wondered at what point a defendant's attorney might actually be considered by his participation in hiding evidence to have joined the conspiracy crime.

 

[Jmoose]

I'm so curious whether the bucket came from JFD's place. IIRC, the nanny had pointed out a few things that she noticed were missing - including at least one camp pillow that had been on shelves in JFD's garage. Clearly, the bicyclist in the navy sweatshirt pedaling his way to JFD's place that morning wasn't carrying a bucket in that surveillance photo.

Edited to add: The camp pillow also interests me as (to me) it suggests that at least one other person was at the scene with FD and one of the at least two attackers used the pillow to stifle JFD's screams/cries once she was down on the ground and as the other person continued to murder and bind her. (I'm sorry as I hate to even imagine or type that.)

People who commit such violent and life-destroying acts against innocent people - or who participate in the development and execution of such planned acts against innocent people - deserve to have the rest of the world know they have done so and they deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison.

Wasn’t there a bucket possibly missing from Jennifer’s, but the nanny couldn’t recall the color? Imagine trying to remember, in someone else’s house, what is supposed to be there, but isn’t?

 

[Jmoose]

If the prosecution wanted JS disqualified bc they wanted to call him as a witness as to where he got the pail with the sweatshirt, etc. in it, they’d also have to call MT’s former atty, Bowman, bc he admitted giving it to JS. Bowman said he couldn’t quite remember where he got it, but it wasn’t from the defendant, and he thought NP gave it to him. NP would be the obvious source, having gotten it from FD, and after FD’s death passed it on to Bowman. But wasn’t that evidence that FD was concealing from the investigation? Remember, FD and MT were first arrested for concealing evidence, by disposing of the blood-stained clothing, etc. NP would have to be called as a witness, too. If he helped FD conceal from LE that he had the pail with the sweatshirt (that PG said he found in his vehicle and put in FD’s laundry room) wouldn’t NP also be guilty of conspiracy to obstruct the investigation? Crime is an exception to the attorney-client privilege. That’s something I’ve wondered about.

Bowman is full of crap, because he absolutely knows where he got it. Each one of those lawyers knows the chain of custody there. What bothers me is that after all of the wrangling over the bucket and sweatshirt, both sides agreed that they were not going to use it as evidence in her trial. And here she is on X (formerly Twitter) effectively displaying it as evidence, and saying that PG’s DNA is on it. I knew they would do it, but I thought it would come up in court, and be sustained when the prosecution objected.

 

[pernickety]

Bowman is full of crap, because he absolutely knows where he got it. Each one of those lawyers knows the chain of custody there. What bothers me is that after all of the wrangling over the bucket and sweatshirt, both sides agreed that they were not going to use it as evidence in her trial. And here she is on X (formerly Twitter) effectively displaying it as evidence, and saying that PG’s DNA is on it. I knew they would do it, but I thought it would come up in court, and be sustained when the prosecution objected.

Did MT say that her own DNA was (allegedly) found on the tools in the box that had the sweatshirt in it--the box that her attorney JS gave to the woman attorney who gave it to LE?

 

[Jmoose]

Did MT say that her own DNA was (allegedly) found on the tools in the box that had the sweatshirt in it--the box that her attorney JS gave to the woman attorney who gave it to LE?

Nope-you said “allegedly”…I had not recalled that. So, on the tools inside the tool box, and the tool box was handed over with the bucket and hoodie?

 

[pernickety]

You and me both. I speculated in writing here sometime probably years ago now that I wondered at what point a defendant's attorney might actually be considered by his participation in hiding evidence to have joined the conspiracy crime.

I've speculated that when NP passed on the bucket contents to Bowman after FD's death, Bowman didn't want that possible evidence withheld from authorities in his possession, and it might've been the reason he withdrew from MT's representation. Eventually, JS might've come to think it wasn't a good idea to have it in his own possession, so he retained a personal lawyer for himself, delivered it to her in a box, but forgot to tell her he included a letter to her from himself in that box. The intent was, IMO, that she would give it to LE, but withhold the source, claiming attorney-client privilege. But she didn't open the box and never found the letter, but LE did. She probably didn't open the box because she wanted as little involvement as possible.

 

[Jmoose]

I've speculated that when NP passed on the bucket contents to Bowman after FD's death, Bowman didn't want that possible evidence withheld from authorities in his possession, and it might've been the reason he withdrew from MT's representation. Eventually, JS might've come to think it wasn't a good idea to have it in his own possession, so he retained a personal lawyer for himself, delivered it to her in a box, but forgot to tell her he included a letter to her from himself in that box. The intent was, IMO, that she would give it to LE, but withhold the source, claiming attorney-client privilege. But she didn't open the box and never found the letter, but LE did. She probably didn't open the box because she wanted as little involvement as possible.

I think you’re right. She was supposed to find the letter, not LE. And I think this is the only reason the sweatshirt isn’t being introduced the way the defense wants to, during the trial, although they apparently mean to make sure the media has the information. I still wonder why the swearshirt matters, though-I mean, I assume the sweatshirt is PG’s; it has his DNA, and it was in his truck, where it wouldn’t be unusual to find it- I have a hoodie in my car, right now, too, which must have my DNA on it. What would be more significant to me is whether or not the one in question also has Jennifer Dulos’s DNA on it. The bucket…who knows who that bucket belongs to; I think I recall the nanny said a bucket that would have been in the garage was possibly missing, but if they could not identify the owner, and it had only DNA from MT and fD, then maybe it’s their bucket. Still-why make such a production out of some possibly insignificant items? The only answer is that they are not insignificant. I haven’t had coffee yet-somebody needs to explain this to me!

 

[pernickety]

I think you’re right. She was supposed to find the letter, not LE. And I think this is the only reason the sweatshirt isn’t being introduced the way the defense wants to, during the trial, although they apparently mean to make sure the media has the information. I still wonder why the swearshirt matters, though-I mean, I assume the sweatshirt is PG’s; it has his DNA, and it was in his truck, where it wouldn’t be unusual to find it- I have a hoodie in my car, right now, too, which must have my DNA on it. What would be more significant to me is whether or not the one in question also has Jennifer Dulos’s DNA on it. The bucket…who knows who that bucket belongs to; I think I recall the nanny said a bucket that would have been in the garage was possibly missing, but if they could not identify the owner, and it had only DNA from MT and fD, then maybe it’s their bucket. Still-why make such a production out of some possibly insignificant items? The only answer is that they are not insignificant. I haven’t had coffee yet-somebody needs to explain this to me!

There's no proof that the sweatshirt that was found in the box JS gave to the attorney and which that attorney gave to LE that allegedly has PG's DNA on it was the same sweatshirt that was in the pail that PG said he found in his truck and then put in FD's laundry room years before. And PG's DNA could've been transferred to the sweatshirt in the box by unknown means by unknown person.

 

[Jmoose]

One of the things I imagine was supposed to happen if the cowardly Fotis Dulos had not killed himself was that he would claim that PG was driving his own truck to New Canaan on 5/24/19. He would simply say, and MT would agree, that the Toyota truck was gone all day, with PG, and that his own truck was with them all day long. And that anything found in or on the Toyota was PG’s problem. I mean, the driver of the toyota resembled PG, if you didn’t look hard, and who does look very hard at strangers when you go about your day? That sweatshirt was supposed to be part of that “reasonable doubt”, but I guess fD didn’t realize that he left his own DNA inside Jennifer’s house, where it should never have been. And PG’s DNA was nowhere except on a sweatshirt that was likely his own, which was found in his truck. I am actually trying to figure out how fD could have gotten PG’s DNA on there, if it didn’t belong to him. I wonder if it was fD’s and he lent it to him in anticipation of this. PG did say that he couldn’t say for sure whether it belonged to him or not. Maybe I am going too far down the rabbit hole, and it isn’t this complicated.

 

[Jmoose]

Was there still a life insurance policy on Jennifer with fD as the beneficiary, when she was murdered? I know we talked about it, and also about how it isn’t as simple as changing the beneficiary when you separate.

 

[Megnut]

One of the things I imagine was supposed to happen if the cowardly Fotis Dulos had not killed himself was that he would claim that PG was driving his own truck to New Canaan on 5/24/19. He would simply say, and MT would agree, that the Toyota truck was gone all day, with PG, and that his own truck was with them all day long. And that anything found in or on the Toyota was PG’s problem. I mean, the driver of the toyota resembled PG, if you didn’t look hard, and who does look very hard at strangers when you go about your day? That sweatshirt was supposed to be part of that “reasonable doubt”, but I guess fD didn’t realize that he left his own DNA inside Jennifer’s house, where it should never have been. And PG’s DNA was nowhere except on a sweatshirt that was likely his own, which was found in his truck. I am actually trying to figure out how fD could have gotten PG’s DNA on there, if it didn’t belong to him. I wonder if it was fD’s and he lent it to him in anticipation of this. PG did say that he couldn’t say for sure whether it belonged to him or not. Maybe I am going too far down the rabbit hole, and it isn’t this complicated.

I don't think FD planned his story out to that degree. I think it came after, once the truck was identified.

I suspect FD thought he was bulletproof. A borrowed vehicle, biking the last mile, ambushing JFd and removing her from the premises. Leaving her vehicle at Waveny to change the locus. Look here, not there. Random abductor, case closed.

If not for three things.

JFd fought back with everything she had.

A school bus captured the parked Tacoma.

A neighborhood camera captured his hooded bike ride.

It unraveled from there.

Biological matter on the Tacoma seats which were saved over FD's attempt otherwise.

The failed phone callibi to Greece.

The odyssey of stupidity on Albany Street, all captured in Hi-Res.

Also, the outstanding actions of the nanny, the swift action to protect the children and the rapid response to JFd's absence.

How he thought he could pull it off, inane.

It was an idiot plan from the onset.

Jmo

 

[Jmoose]

I don't think FD planned his story out to that degree. I think it came after, once the truck was identified.

I suspect FD thought he was bulletproof. A borrowed vehicle, biking the last mile, ambushing JFd and removing her from the premises. Leaving her vehicle at Waveny to change the locus. Look here, not there. Random abductor, case closed.

If not for three things.

JFd fought back with everything she had.

A school bus captured the parked Tacoma.

A neighborhood camera captured his hooded bike ride.

It unraveled from there.

Biological matter on the Tacoma seats which were saved over FD's attempt otherwise.

The failed phone callibi to Greece.

The odyssey of stupidity on Albany Street, all captured in Hi-Res.

Also, the outstanding actions of the nanny, the swift action to protect the children and the rapid response to JFd's absence.

How he thought he could pull it off, inane.

It was an idiot plan from the onset.

Jmo

When do you think fD realized that the truck he drove had been identified? He was never interrogated by the detectives, like MT was-I don’t know if he really understood all that they knew, until he was arrested in January of 2020-but I wonder if he was informed prior to his arrest (for example…knew that Pg’s truck had been recorded, but they didn’t tell him that they knew he was driving it). I am not familiar with the process, so I don’t what he was told, and when.

 

[Megnut]

When do you think fD realized that the truck he drove had been identified? He was never interrogated by the detectives, like MT was-I don’t know if he really understood all that they knew, until he was arrested in January of 2020-but I wonder if he was informed prior to his arrest (for example…knew that Pg’s truck had been recorded, but they didn’t tell him that they knew he was driving it). I am not familiar with the process, so I don’t what he was told, and when.

Perhaps it was all an unhappy surprise to him when his attorney shared the first arrest warrant with him. Like scenes of his life flashing before his dark eyes.

He had to know he was sunk.

JMO

 

[Jmoose]

Perhaps it was all an unhappy surprise to him when his attorney shared the first arrest warrant with him. Like scenes of his life flashing before his dark eyes.

He had to know he was sunk.

JMO

This is how I imagine it going, too. The two of them, both depressed at rverything that LE knew. I always thought that fD thought he might have gotten away with it, until the arrest warrant was delivered. Then he knew, that they knew pretty much all of it.

 

[pernickety]

Nope-you said “allegedly”…I had not recalled that. So, on the tools inside the tool box, and the tool box was handed over with the bucket and hoodie?

It's what I remember from a news report I read just after LE got the box JS gave to the attorney he retained. I don't remember report said there was a "tool box." Only tools (the type, I think, was named in report) that were in a "box" given to that female lawyer. And report said FD's DNA wasn't on sweatshirt AIR.

 

[Diddian]

There's no proof that the sweatshirt that was found in the box JS gave to the attorney and which that attorney gave to LE that allegedly has PG's DNA on it was the same sweatshirt that was in the pail that PG said he found in his truck and then put in FD's laundry room years before. And PG's DNA could've been transferred to the sweatshirt in the box by unknown means by unknown person.

Or PG could have seen the bucket he did not recognize in his truck when he went to get his tools on that Tuesday after Memorial Day, taken the bucket out, pulled the sweatshirt out of the bucket to see what it was, realized it was FD's sweatshirt rather than his own or that of anyone in his own family, put it back in the bucket, and innocently delivered the bucket with sweatshirt inside to FD's laundry room.

That's just a slightly longer version of what PG told LE (according to the Arrest Warrants) that is also the most probable explanation for PG's DNA on the sweatshirt (ETA: IF PG's DNA is on it).

PG already knew at that time that FD and MT were messing around with his truck the Friday prior as that is what they were doing when he appeared at 80 MS Rd at the end of the workday. Under normal circumstances, It wouldn't seem unreasonable to assume that while they were messing around with his truck, they inadvertently left the items in there. And at the time PG delivered the bucket into FD's laundry room, circumstances still likely seemed normal.

No way did FD off himself while believing that PG killed JFD and tried to frame FD and MT for it. More likely, FD killed himself because he believed he chose lousy co-conspirators who made transparently stupid mistakes (like taking selfies with store robots and pre-digging graves on private golf courses) and who would eventually turn on him to save themselves.

 

[pernickety]

I think you’re right. She was supposed to find the letter, not LE. And I think this is the only reason the sweatshirt isn’t being introduced the way the defense wants to, during the trial, although they apparently mean to make sure the media has the information. I still wonder why the swearshirt matters, though-I mean, I assume the sweatshirt is PG’s; it has his DNA, and it was in his truck, where it wouldn’t be unusual to find it- I have a hoodie in my car, right now, too, which must have my DNA on it. What would be more significant to me is whether or not the one in question also has Jennifer Dulos’s DNA on it. The bucket…who knows who that bucket belongs to; I think I recall the nanny said a bucket that would have been in the garage was possibly missing, but if they could not identify the owner, and it had only DNA from MT and fD, then maybe it’s their bucket. Still-why make such a production out of some possibly insignificant items? The only answer is that they are not insignificant. I haven’t had coffee yet-somebody needs to explain this to me!

Prosecution trying to disqualify Michelle Troconis’ lawyer as her trial approaches in Jennifer Farber Dulos slaying case

State prosecutors want to disqualify Michelle Troconis’ lawyer from defending her because they may call him as a witness to testify about how he obtained a mysterious box of evidence containing a sweatshirt police believe is similar to one connected to the killing of Jennifer Farber Dulos. The...

www.yahoo.com

The report above says DNA report on tools was "inconclusive" as to MT.

 

[pernickety]

Or PG could have seen the bucket he did not recognize in his truck when he went to get his tools on that Tuesday after Memorial Day, taken the bucket out, pulled the sweatshirt out of the bucket to see what it was, realized it was FD's sweatshirt rather than his own or that of anyone in his own family, put it back in the bucket, and innocently delivered the bucket with sweatshirt inside to FD's laundry room.

That's just a slightly longer version of what PG told LE (according to the Arrest Warrants) that is also the most probable explanation for PG's DNA on the sweatshirt (ETA: IF PG's DNA is on it).

PG already knew at that time that FD and MT were messing around with his truck the Friday prior as that is what they were doing when he appeared at 80 MS Rd at the end of the workday. Under normal circumstances, It wouldn't seem unreasonable to assume that while they were messing around with his truck, they inadvertently left the items in there. And at the time PG delivered the bucket into FD's laundry room, circumstances still likely seemed normal.

No way did FD off himself while believing that PG killed JFD and tried to frame FD and MT for it. More likely, FD killed himself because he believed he chose lousy co-conspirators who made transparently stupid mistakes (like taking selfies with store robots and pre-digging graves on private golf courses) and who would eventually turn on him to save themselves.

I agree. And another thing I wondered about is this: Was LE the first to get DNA testing done on that sweatshirt? Because how would FD, MT, NP or JS KNOW that FD's DNA was not on that sweatshirt and PG's was? I mean, before it was given to LE?