BBM - JBR was in full rigor. There is no way he wouldn't have known immediately that she was dead.
Day 5 The John, Patsy and Burke's behavior/ The 12 days of JonBenet
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BBM - JBR was in full rigor. There is no way he wouldn't have known immediately that she was dead.
IndianPaintbrush
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Yes, and their claim that the Boulder PD focused exclusively on them is such b.s.. Standard procedure in any homicide is to examine the people who were at the crime scene first. We all know the vast majority of children killed in the home are killed by a family member. It's common sense to look at the parents first. The Ramseys should not have been surprised by this.
Secondly, the Boulder PD did look at many other suspects and found zilch. This was not some conspiracy to frame the Ramseys. The Boulder PD made big mistakes that morning, but that does not mean the entire investigation was flawed or biased.
I respectfully disagree - I would think that I would want to get the hell out of there and get to where no one knew where we were, so no one else could "get to us". Especially if it was some "foreign faction" - that would scare the crap out of me.
cricket49
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Arrogance. John was the CEO of a company and felt insulted that they would question Patsy and him like they were suspects. Rich, powerful people get away with so much more than average or poor people. I have worked with with many CEO's and some believe they are better than others.
Here is another example of BR smiling inappropriately.
So he smiles as a child when talking about the brutal slaying of his sister, he smiles as an adult when talking about the brutal slaying of his sister and smiles while buring his mother.
I don't think he knows how to interact with humans.
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We also have multiple examples of changing statements, deceptive behaviors, and/or apparent lies told by both PR and JR.
Examples of lies, deceptive behaviors, and changing statements made by PR: the torn present wrappings, the screen door, JonBenet asleep, what JonBenet wore to bed, when she noticed JonBenet not in her room, BR asleep, intentional changes in handwriting after the murder
- When asked about the torn wrapping paper revealing part of 2 wrapped presents that were in the "wine cellar," PR told investigators that SHE had done that earlier because she couldn't remember what was in the presents (they had been gift-wrapped and shipped to the home after an earlier shopping trip in NYC). But later it was revealed that BR had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day. PR lied about this -- WHY she lied about it is unknown but it certainly is interesting that she lied about it.
- Barbara Fernie told investigators that in late summer or early fall of 1996, she had noticed damage to the latch area of an exterior screen door on the rear south side of the Ramsey home. Fernie said she told PR about this, concerned that maybe someone had tried to break into the Ramsey home. Fernie told investigators that both she and PR inspected the door and determined that the interior door had no damage -- it was only the screen door that had been damaged. Fernie said that PR was unconcerned about the damaged screen door and suggested that JR may have been the one responsible since he was "always forgetting his keys." But shortly after the murder, in a large newspaper ad placed by Ramsey attorneys, a photo of this damaged screen door was included - suggesting that this could've been the point of entry used by "the intruder." But Fernie's testimony proves that PR knew about this screen door months before the murder. This was obviously an attempt by the Ramseys to mislead the public about evidence.
- Other threads have discussed the pineapple found in JonBenet's small intestine and why this means she was awake after they returned from the White's party. PR and JR both insist she was asleep. So if they are telling the truth, then that means either JonBenet got the pineapple herself and ate it, or BR gave her the pineapple (or she took it from BR) while he was eating it that night, or "the intruder" gave her the pineapple. I think most of us agree that the idea of an intruder feeding BR pineapple is very far-fetched, so then that leaves us with the other scenarios. Dr. Phil was on the "Today Show" this morning, and he says BR has some very important and very specific info to provide about the pineapple and how that ended up in JonBenet's stomach, so I will be VERY interested to hear that. But for the time being at least, it seems to me that the whole "JonBenet was asleep" story is another lie told by PR (and JR as well).
- PR initially told police on Dec. 26 that JonBenet had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck sweater. But 4 months later during the April interview, she changed her story and said she went to bed wearing the white top with the star on the front (the one she was wearing when her body was found). While processing the crime scene, investigators did find a balled up red turtleneck on the sink counter of JonBenet's bathroom. It's always struck me that PR's story about what her daughter was wearing the last time she put her bed (and presumably saw her alive) would change so dramatically.
- PR initially told police that JonBenet's door was open when she first went downstairs that morning and was fiddling with laundry on the 2nd floor. She said she noticed that JonBenet was not in her bed. This was before finding the ransom note at the bottom of the stairs. Later, PR's story changed and said JonBenet's door was closed, then she found the ransom note, and then she rushed back up to JonBenet's room and opened the door to find her missing. If this was the only change in PR's version of events I think it could be explained (in the chaos/panic of the moment maybe she got this confused), but when you add this to other changing statements, lies, and deceptive behaviors I think it adds to the total picture of someone with guilty knowledge struggling to keep her stories straight.
- Both PR and JR insist BR was asleep throughout the entire morning of Dec 26 but we already know this was not true based on BR's own statements. Plus, we've now seen the tape of BR in a law enforcement interview where he says that his mother ran into his room that morning, flipped on the lights, and was "acting psycho" and saying "oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh" and then running out of his room. At that point, wouldn't it be obvious to PR that she had woken up her son (if he even was, in fact, sleeping)? As a mom of 2 children, 1 of whom you believe to have just been kidnapped in the night, wouldn't you rush over and HUG that remaining child with all your might in relief that at least he was safe? Wouldn't you ask him "HAVE YOU SEEN YOUR SISTER? IS JONBENET IN HERE? DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING?" Wouldn't you keep him by your side (to try to comfort him AND to make sure he stayed safe) throughout the rest of the morning? And of course, we now have the 911 operator confirming that she heard 3 voices of the call and we have the long-reported enhanced version of the 911 call where it was reported that other investigators also heard 3 voices at the end of the call. So this one is just an outright lie in my book -- it is clear that PR (and JR) lied about BR being asleep that morning. And again, I think what's even more important to ask is why they would lie about this.
- There are numerous examples of PR intentionally trying to change her handwriting after the murder. Kolar sites this in his book. For example, in handwriting samples obtained prior to the murder, PR consistently used the lower case manuscript style "a" in her handwriting as opposed to the more common cursive style of this letter ("a"). (In the ransom note, the manuscript style "a" is by far the dominant style -- used 109 times out of total of 114 times the letter "a" appears.) But after the murder in PR's handwriting samples, her use of the lower case manuscript a completely dissappears. Investigators believed this was evidence that pointed to a conscious effort on PR's part to obscure her handwriting, and I agree.
I don't have time at the moment to go into the same list for JR, but there are a number of lies, changes in statements, and what appear to be deceptive behaviors where he is concerned as well IMO.
Examples of lies, deceptive behaviors, and changing statements made by PR: the torn present wrappings, the screen door, JonBenet asleep, what JonBenet wore to bed, when she noticed JonBenet not in her room, BR asleep, intentional changes in handwriting after the murder
- When asked about the torn wrapping paper revealing part of 2 wrapped presents that were in the "wine cellar," PR told investigators that SHE had done that earlier because she couldn't remember what was in the presents (they had been gift-wrapped and shipped to the home after an earlier shopping trip in NYC). But later it was revealed that BR had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day. PR lied about this -- WHY she lied about it is unknown but it certainly is interesting that she lied about it.
- Barbara Fernie told investigators that in late summer or early fall of 1996, she had noticed damage to the latch area of an exterior screen door on the rear south side of the Ramsey home. Fernie said she told PR about this, concerned that maybe someone had tried to break into the Ramsey home. Fernie told investigators that both she and PR inspected the door and determined that the interior door had no damage -- it was only the screen door that had been damaged. Fernie said that PR was unconcerned about the damaged screen door and suggested that JR may have been the one responsible since he was "always forgetting his keys." But shortly after the murder, in a large newspaper ad placed by Ramsey attorneys, a photo of this damaged screen door was included - suggesting that this could've been the point of entry used by "the intruder." But Fernie's testimony proves that PR knew about this screen door months before the murder. This was obviously an attempt by the Ramseys to mislead the public about evidence.
- Other threads have discussed the pineapple found in JonBenet's small intestine and why this means she was awake after they returned from the White's party. PR and JR both insist she was asleep. So if they are telling the truth, then that means either JonBenet got the pineapple herself and ate it, or BR gave her the pineapple (or she took it from BR) while he was eating it that night, or "the intruder" gave her the pineapple. I think most of us agree that the idea of an intruder feeding BR pineapple is very far-fetched, so then that leaves us with the other scenarios. Dr. Phil was on the "Today Show" this morning, and he says BR has some very important and very specific info to provide about the pineapple and how that ended up in JonBenet's stomach, so I will be VERY interested to hear that. But for the time being at least, it seems to me that the whole "JonBenet was asleep" story is another lie told by PR (and JR as well).
- PR initially told police on Dec. 26 that JonBenet had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck sweater. But 4 months later during the April interview, she changed her story and said she went to bed wearing the white top with the star on the front (the one she was wearing when her body was found). While processing the crime scene, investigators did find a balled up red turtleneck on the sink counter of JonBenet's bathroom. It's always struck me that PR's story about what her daughter was wearing the last time she put her bed (and presumably saw her alive) would change so dramatically.
- PR initially told police that JonBenet's door was open when she first went downstairs that morning and was fiddling with laundry on the 2nd floor. She said she noticed that JonBenet was not in her bed. This was before finding the ransom note at the bottom of the stairs. Later, PR's story changed and said JonBenet's door was closed, then she found the ransom note, and then she rushed back up to JonBenet's room and opened the door to find her missing. If this was the only change in PR's version of events I think it could be explained (in the chaos/panic of the moment maybe she got this confused), but when you add this to other changing statements, lies, and deceptive behaviors I think it adds to the total picture of someone with guilty knowledge struggling to keep her stories straight.
- Both PR and JR insist BR was asleep throughout the entire morning of Dec 26 but we already know this was not true based on BR's own statements. Plus, we've now seen the tape of BR in a law enforcement interview where he says that his mother ran into his room that morning, flipped on the lights, and was "acting psycho" and saying "oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh" and then running out of his room. At that point, wouldn't it be obvious to PR that she had woken up her son (if he even was, in fact, sleeping)? As a mom of 2 children, 1 of whom you believe to have just been kidnapped in the night, wouldn't you rush over and HUG that remaining child with all your might in relief that at least he was safe? Wouldn't you ask him "HAVE YOU SEEN YOUR SISTER? IS JONBENET IN HERE? DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING?" Wouldn't you keep him by your side (to try to comfort him AND to make sure he stayed safe) throughout the rest of the morning? And of course, we now have the 911 operator confirming that she heard 3 voices of the call and we have the long-reported enhanced version of the 911 call where it was reported that other investigators also heard 3 voices at the end of the call. So this one is just an outright lie in my book -- it is clear that PR (and JR) lied about BR being asleep that morning. And again, I think what's even more important to ask is why they would lie about this.
- There are numerous examples of PR intentionally trying to change her handwriting after the murder. Kolar sites this in his book. For example, in handwriting samples obtained prior to the murder, PR consistently used the lower case manuscript style "a" in her handwriting as opposed to the more common cursive style of this letter ("a"). (In the ransom note, the manuscript style "a" is by far the dominant style -- used 109 times out of total of 114 times the letter "a" appears.) But after the murder in PR's handwriting samples, her use of the lower case manuscript a completely dissappears. Investigators believed this was evidence that pointed to a conscious effort on PR's part to obscure her handwriting, and I agree.
I don't have time at the moment to go into the same list for JR, but there are a number of lies, changes in statements, and what appear to be deceptive behaviors where he is concerned as well IMO.
otg
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(rsbm)
I've posted this before, but it's worth showing again for the nubes here. In the following movie clip, Danny DeVito wants to get rid of his wife. Judge Reinhold is the kidnapper.
[video=youtube;5QJoV6_o5mU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QJoV6_o5mU[/video]
I wasn't sure where to post this, but Lin Wood (long-time attorney representing JR and BR) is tweeting away to promote the upcoming Dr. Phil interview with BR. (For those of you who haven't heard, Dr. Phil and his wife Robin recently hired Lin Wood to represent them in their mega-law suit about the National Enquirer.) I think the very fact that Lin Wood is promoting the Dr. Phil interview tells us what we can expect from this 3-part series.
Hatfield
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True that. But if he knew right away that she was deceased then he would also know that LE gets very concerned about crime scenes and especially a murder crime scene so he should have known not to move the body and drag her around. I dont think he can have it both ways. I understand as a parent you would not care about LE evidence at a time like that if a child is injured or still breathing but I dont think you would move the body either if she was stiff with rigor and there was obviously no hope of reviving her.
So IMO a parent would most likely do one of two things in that situation.
-Either scream for help to revive the child and begin trying himself or
-realize the child is deceased and rigor has set in and scream for help to LE to come down to see that he found her.
Thinking along the lines of parents who have to go to the morgue to ID a deceased relative. I think most would take a quick look and have to turn away in tears. Parents inherintly know the soul of the person is no longer in that stiff body.
JMO of course and I am even willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here in his actions. Its all the other things that add up in addition to this that begins to develop a compelling case.
otg
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"Listen very carefully..."
"You'll be watched at all phases of execution."
"If you notify the police,... (etc.)"
"If you deviate from our instructions in any way whatsoever, she will be killed."
"You'll be watched at all phases of execution."
"If you notify the police,... (etc.)"
"If you deviate from our instructions in any way whatsoever, she will be killed."
(It's almost like Patsy was watching this movie while she wrote out the RN. :floorlaugh
GoldenFleece
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A thing to note as well, if the Ramsay's marriage was on the rocks as it is. It seems unlikely they would cover for each other if only one of them "did it".
The only thing holding the marriage together were the kids.
​
In my mind there is only two reasons they would cover it up in this instance, either they BOTH molested and attacked JB or Burke did.
Thats if what the housekeeper says is true of course.
Hatfield
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"Listen very carefully..."
"You'll be watched at all phases of execution."
"If you notify the police,... (etc.)"
"If you deviate from our instructions in any way whatsoever, she will be killed."
(It's almost like Patsy was watching this movie while she wrote out the RN. :floorlaugh
I honestly think she was to help them write it. Its too similar.
Even the parts where the letter threatens directly to "John". Those parts remind me of the parts of that phone call in the movie where Devito is getting threatened.
PositiveLight
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I thought that too when I watched it!"Listen very carefully..."
"You'll be watched at all phases of execution."
"If you notify the police,... (etc.)"
"If you deviate from our instructions in any way whatsoever, she will be killed."
(It's almost like Patsy was watching this movie while she wrote out the RN. :floorlaugh
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Hatfield
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One other thing about moving the body. If JR was smart enough not to touch the letter and went out of his way to read it on the floor but then picks up a stiff deceased JBR and carries her around knowing he would contaminate the crime scene. ok
GoldenFleece
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JR had a crime investigation book on his nightstand and was noted by police on the morning of the murder. So yeah, I would venture he knew something about crime scenes and not to disturb them.
PositiveLight
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Damn. Are you serious???? WTH. [emoji35]
I'm constantly finding out new things that make me even more sure they did it!
Whyyyyyyyyy on earth would he have a book like that and especially on his nightstand??? *Shivers*.
That is too "in your face!"
Something crossed my mind as I read this:
JMOO mind you and a possible scenerio.
Either PR or BR did the initial crime.
If we can take the housekeepers word that the marriage was strained...
I just wonder if PR saw this as a chance to get JR out of her and BR life and she placed the book at his bedside. Just a thought!
Then JR not having a clue what was going on kept in the dark,
He thinks either BR or PR did it when he sees the note and immediately starts protecting his family....not realizing PR set him up to take the fall.
JMOO and a possible scenerio. Wouldn't be the first time someone set their spouse up.
Maybe JR didn't realize until days later she set him up but by them he was too far down the rabbit hole to dig himself out.
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