Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

[RedHaus]

Started out sunny and warm with no warning about a storm coming in until we could actually see it coming at us very quickly. My very pregnant daughter and younger daughter was with us. I immediately sent them down into the cabin and locked all hatches. Pulled the anchor and lowered the keel. We tried to beat the storm to the inlet for safe harbor but that did not happen. We had anchored to fish a little bit. Now I'm so glad it was anchored so that we had time to walk about the sailboat and prepare for a storm. We tried to motor in and the boat was on it's side the entire time, I was hanging onto the lifelines to stay on the boat. Steering toward the inlet. The storm overran us and it was a real wild ride for a while. My daughters were screaming because the water was over the windows. We couldn't cut the engine because water would have came over the back of sailboat and swamp us. We made it into the inlet and then tried to stick it on a sandbar so that we would not collide with people's docks. Missed it by inches.

That is an amazing story @lonetraveler . Thank you SO much for sharing. It is compelling how similar the experience might have been on the Bayesian.

The difference being that you are here to tell your story because you may have done things differently in response to the downburst. And of course your event was during daylight and you could see the approaching storm; the Bayesian's event was during the dark of night, @3:50am and the watchman likely could not easily see the thunderstorm marching towards them.

I wonder if your downburst happened while you and your family were asleep, would you have been able to do all you did in time to save your lives and yacht (drop keel, pull up anchor, close hatches, start engines, steer to inlet)?

I also wonder - since a few of us have tried to no avail to find historical 19-8 data that shows the Bayesian's downburst origin storm could have been predicted by radar or weather alerts - if you had any electronic forewarning?

Lastly, could you estimate the angle your yacht was heeled at while you motored and steered towards the inlet? I ask because we have learned that the Bayesian could not return to upright if it heeled more than 45° (vanishing angle). So many here suspect that design (flaw?) played a role in her demise as she faced a fierce downburst.

Thank you.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

He's trying to put the tall mast at fault but without the keel down and the anchor up and hatches closed there was no way for the boat to not sink.

This goes in part why I think the vessel was unseaworthy notwithstanding that it was built to code. It's both expected and allowed for the keel to be up while the anchor is down as well as hatches being open. They didn't have to have the keel down until they were 60 miles away from port. As a matter of practical use as well as providing more comfort to HNW passengers the vessel is very vulnerable to suddenly capsizing...I also take issue with how glassy the passenger areas were, which further created a hazard when disaster struck and the passenger stairway seemed poorly designed to function during a disaster too. The regulations should change so that a vessel behaving in a predictable way can't sink in minutes and kill everyone in the passenger compartment. It sounds like some mistakes were made like by the engineer, but it shouldn't result in near-instant death as a vessel should have some room for error. I'd expect something more like this with a superyacht taking hours to sink when there's bad weather and crew mistakes:

Inside the largest yacht that ever sank

Few events have ever affected yachting as much as the sinking of the 60 meter Yogi. The largest yacht to ever sink, its wreck strongly hit the Turkish shipbuilding sector and made owners take a hard look at their insurances and dangers, even though no one was hurt. Despite the accident, Yogi was...

yachtharbour.com

There was this relative tiny yacht that was attacked by orcas and they had over an hour to escape:

Killer whales attack and sink sailing yacht in the Strait of Gibraltar — again

An unknown number of orcas managed to sink another sailing yacht near coastal Morocco in the Strait of Gibraltar.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[ItalyReader]

You would think so. He should have been ordering the crew to do the things that needed to be done. I'm thinking that if the hatches were closed as claimed, the boat would not be on the bottom of the water.

But it sounds like the watchman was 'manually' closing windows and hatches. Of course that is my interpretation.

well wouldn't it be easy to check if the hatches are closed? he'd be a fool to lie about something that can and will be
checked by diving down or when they recover the boat

Non-mariner question from me: Regarding checking to see if hatches are closed - if investigators find them open, either investigating on the seabed or when the pull the boat up, could that be because of damage during the incident?
In other words, are hatches designed to be strong enough to stay closed at water pressure of 50m under the sea and being pulled/tugged to be brought up to sea level?

 

[ItalyReader]

And then there are the engine room vents that experts (and us sleuthers here) have opined may have been open.

I thought the engine room was in the stern from Bayesian deck diagrams we've reviewed here. And if heavy water ingress occurred through the vents, that might explain why the Bayesian was seen with its bow raised (per the captain on the nearby schooner) and perhaps why the six passengers died on the lower deck.

But the Engineer's comments posted here today, make it sound like the engine room was not in the stern. Of course I may be missing something. Regardless, I still think the engine vents were key.

IMO.

Engine room was in the stern.
I've also been wondering for a while now which crew member sleeps in the bed behind the Engine room - you can see a green bed in the stern like the crew accommodation in the bow.
@lonetraveler, related question for you regarding that you saw the captain's cabin was center placed - where did you find that info?
Thank you everyone

https://www.superyachttimes.com/yacht-news/perini-navi-sailing-yacht-bayesian-sinks-off-palermo-seven-missing

BAYESIAN Yacht Layout / General Arrangement Plans (ex. Salute) - Perini Navi Yachts

Interactive, detailed layout / general arrangement of BAYESIAN, the 56m Perini Navi Yachts super yacht with naval architecture by Ron Holland Design with an interior by Remi Tessier

www.yachtcharterfleet.com

 

[ItalyReader]

I did a bit of research because I wanted to know if the yacht had a rear captain's cabin or a center place captain's cabin. This yacht had a center place captain's cabin.

Can you share where you found that the yacht had a center place captain's cabin?

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder if the fact that the Bayesian was designed by an Italian firm will have any effect on the investigation on the disaster.

Built in 2008 by Perini Navi in Viareggio, Italy. And retrofitted in 2020.

Perini Navi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting, they went bankrupt, so, no longer a company. Probably no blow back from the manufacturer.

Bayesian (yacht) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Bow first states to me that the anchor was off the bow part of the boat. JMO

Anchor is always off the bow. (Anchor off stern will sink).
Typically the bow will always be pointing into the wind (notice any area with boats at anchor or moored, they are all pointing same direction.
Boats will spin around anchor as wind changes direction. If there’s some sort of “tornado” perhaps wind speed is faster and direction changes faster ship changes direction in water with sea surges/waves hitting side of ship rather than bow helping in tipping it? (How the dragging anchor impacts ??)

Other ships in area, not impacted by the

 

[RedHaus]

I've also been wondering for a while now which crew member sleeps in the bed behind the Engine room - you can see a green bed in the stern like the crew accommodation in the bow.

RS&BBM
Excellent observation, @ItalyReader. I have to wonder if that was the yacht's chef, Recaldo Thomas, a Canadian citizen working in Antigua. He perished as well, although found the next day floating near the yacht. Without knowing of course, he could have been trapped in the stern or injured from the rolls of the yacht and unable to escape.
IMO

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Not that this should be a surprise but the first autopsies have been done, which the results are the death was a result of drowning:

Autopsies confirm Bayesian victims the Morvillos drowned - General News - Ansa.it

Autopsies on the bodies of two of the victims of last month's shipwreck of the Bayesian luxury yacht off Porticello, near Palermo, the lawyer Chris Morvillo and his wife Neda, confirmed that they drowned, sources said on Monday. (ANSA)

www.ansa.it

 

[lonetraveler]

Anchor is always off the bow. (Anchor off stern will sink).
Typically the bow will always be pointing into the wind (notice any area with boats at anchor or moored, they are all pointing same direction.
Boats will spin around anchor as wind changes direction. If there’s some sort of “tornado” perhaps wind speed is faster and direction changes faster ship changes direction in water with sea surges/waves hitting side of ship rather than bow helping in tipping it? (How the dragging anchor impacts ??)

Other ships in area, not impacted by the

You are correct. I was answering a post above about where the anchor would be.

 

[lonetraveler]

Can you share where you found that the yacht had a center place captain's cabin?

Coud be wrong on this but was going by the design of the boat.

 

[ItalyReader]

Coud be wrong on this but was going by the design of the boat.
View attachment 528615

Ok so I see in the boat design - link posted above - that it’s the owners cabin in the center of the boat. In this case the owner is not the captain - could that be what you were thinking?

 

[lonetraveler]

That is an amazing story @lonetraveler . Thank you SO much for sharing. It is compelling how similar the experience might have been on the Bayesian.

The difference being that you are here to tell your story because you may have done things differently in response to the downburst. And of course your event was during daylight and you could see the approaching storm; the Bayesian's event was during the dark of night, @3:50am and the watchman likely could not easily see the thunderstorm marching towards them.

I wonder if your downburst happened while you and your family were asleep, would you have been able to do all you did in time to save your lives and yacht (drop keel, pull up anchor, close hatches, start engines, steer to inlet)?

I also wonder - since a few of us have tried to no avail to find historical 19-8 data that shows the Bayesian's downburst origin storm could have been predicted by radar or weather alerts - if you had any electronic forewarning?

Lastly, could you estimate the angle your yacht was heeled at while you motored and steered towards the inlet? I ask because we have learned that the Bayesian could not return to upright if it heeled more than 45° (vanishing angle). So many here suspect that design (flaw?) played a role in her demise as she faced a fierce downburst.

Thank you.

We were fortunate that the storm did not hit during the night. It would have been extremely hard to prepare for the storm quickly in the dark. My sailboat heeled about 45 degrees, the tip of the mast hit the water and we were praying it would not hit the bottom or it probably would break the mast. Thankful that the weight of the keel helped it to pop back up.

 

[lonetraveler]

Ok so I see in the boat design - link posted above - that it’s the owners cabin in the center of the boat. In this case the owner is not the captain - could that be what you were thinking?

No, I was seeing the pilot house as containing the steering and electronics.

 

[ItalyReader]

No, I was seeing the pilot house as containing the steering and electronics.

If anyone could find a link to this it would be helpful to compare with the other Bayesian plans we’ve seen.
Thank you!

 

[SouthAussie]

If anyone could find a link to this it would be helpful to compare with the other Bayesian plans we’ve seen.
Thank you!

The Bayesian had a traditional aft cockpit and a fully enclosable forward cockpit. Two different spots from which it could be controlled.

It is interesting that it was the only yacht from the 10 yachts of its class (56 metres) built by that builder that had a single mast. The others had two masts. I wonder how that affected the stability of a boat that size.

Bayesian (yacht) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, the total crew area was 107 sq metres/1,152 sq ft.

https://www.perininavi.it/yacht/2008-bayesian-formerly-salute/

 

[LadyL]

Non-mariner question from me: Regarding checking to see if hatches are closed - if investigators find them open, either investigating on the seabed or when the pull the boat up, could that be because of damage during the incident?
In other words, are hatches designed to be strong enough to stay closed at water pressure of 50m under the sea and being pulled/tugged to be brought up to sea level?

yeah that question was floating around in my brain too

 

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[ItalyReader]

The Bayesian had a traditional aft cockpit and a fully enclosable forward cockpit. Two different spots from which it could be controlled.

It is interesting that it was the only yacht from the 10 yachts of its class (56 metres) built by that builder that had a single mast. The others had two masts. I wonder how that affected the stability of a boat that size.

Bayesian (yacht) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, the total crew area was 107 sq metres/1,152 sq ft.

https://www.perininavi.it/yacht/2008-bayesian-formerly-salute/

What I'm looking for is a diagram/plan which shows the captain's cabin. I have read that it is typically next to or near the cockpit. I think it's odd that the captain's cabin location has not been identified either in press or in any of the diagrams we've found. I've shared this one multiple times but for relevancy I'll put it again here - it shows the same diagrams which are in your first link above. BAYESIAN Yacht Layout / General Arrangement Plans (ex. Salute) - Perini Navi Yachts

Unless he was in the crew area. But I don't think so. There appear to be beds for 8-9 people in the aft crew area, and another in the stern area, as someone noted perhaps for the cook.

If the captain had a cabin next to the cockpit/controls, why isn't that indicated on the plans?

My thought is that it isn't on the plans. I don't know why.

Also, if the pilot house is in the center as indicated from a photo I believe by @lonetraveler then why is wikipedia saying instead the cockpits are forward and aft, not center?

A diagram showing captain's cabin might help clarify all this.

 

[SouthAussie]

Also, if the pilot house is in the center as indicated from a photo I believe by @lonetraveler then why is wikipedia saying instead the cockpits are forward and aft, not center?

Wiki is saying that because that is what is stated in the spec provided by Superyacht Times. All of Wiki's statements are clearly referenced.

The "forward" cockpit would be the one in the centre. Sailing yachts traditionally (and usually) are steered from the rear of the yacht, so Bayesian also has a cockpit at the rear.

I personally believe that the Captain's bunk is with the crew, in the crew quarters. It is the owner's quarters that are in the middle of the yacht. On many vessels the Captain is the owner, but not on this one, not on this trip.


The deck layout presents a very tasteful innovation, coming from the earlier Liberty 52-metre ketch: a 60m2 fore cockpit, in addition to the traditional aft cockpit.

https://www.superyachttimes.com/yacht-news/perini-navi-launches-56-metre-cutter-salute