Day 5 The John, Patsy and Burke's behavior/ The 12 days of JonBenet

[BOESP]

This is after-the-fact behavior but does anyone find Patsy's epitaph to be, well, odd?

"Grace, Love, and Faithfulness Through All"

 

[DeDee]

[video]https://www.investigationdiscoverygo.com/jonbenet-an-american-murder-mystery/a-killer-on-the-loose/[/video]

Minute Marker 18:20

Is John mouthing the words "keep your babies close to you"??

Beep! Beep! Most respectfully, Shay, JR is not quite saying those words. It's more clear in this vid. JR tells Patsy, "It's okay. Shhh..." at the 00:42 mark

[video=youtube;Uo_9xrGKg1o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo_9xrGKg1o[/video]

 

[passionflower]

As I reread old articles and now reading "Death of innocence"..........the Ramseys were SUPER PARENTS and a 'perfect' family house manners etc................
Oh my, they remodeled a huge house, kids had lessons in everything, the pagents, flying from north to south and when I read about Christmas eve, Christ day activities,
visiting, 2 trip planned................where did PR get energy?? She was 40 and a cancer patient........I spin in circles thinking of getting up early making a large Christmas breakfast, pictures, presents,more wrapping, people in and out, packing............

 

[BBB167893]

I'd like to preface this by saying that, although I am BDI, I strongly believe both Burke and Jonbenet were molested by both John and Patsy, and Burke began molesting Jonbenet as a result of not understanding how it is wrong. That being said, I don't have anything nice to say about John.

That goes for me, too. Patsy I forgive. John? Never. And it's true: children who are molested have a better-than-good chance of becoming molesters themselves.

I have some questions Springrain. Not pleasant ones, either. You say that both parents molested both children. Well, if you can expand on that (and if you don't feel like it, I'll understand completely), which parent was molesting which child, why were they doing it and how were they doing it?

A point my mother brought up that I def agree with: I fully believe that John loves immersing himself in tragedy, to be viewed as the strong, resilient hero. The masculine, rational man, who's able to somehow be composed and persevere through all his hardships. He relishes the feeling of convincing everyone that he is a noble, calm man. But that ain't the truth.

"Don't try to grow a brain John".

I think your mom's onto something.

 

[BBB167893]

This is after-the-fact behavior but does anyone find Patsy's epitaph to be, well, odd?

"Grace, Love, and Faithfulness Through All"

Not odd to me. I've always said that when you join up with someone, you stick with them no matter what. And if you can't do that, you're no better off than an animal. I think that's what Patsy's saying with her epitaph. Or, as Tammy Wynette famously said, "Stand by Your Man."

 

[BOESP]

Not odd to me. I've always said that when you join up with someone, you stick with them no matter what. And if you can't do that, you're no better off than an animal. I think that's what Patsy's saying with her epitaph. Or, as Tammy Wynette famously said, "Stand by Your Man."

Maybe so SuperDave, but there's an awful lot of women in the graveyards who were only married once and who whose epitaphs didn't read like Patsy's. "Loving Wife, Mother, Daughter," Gone But Not Forgotten." Wait.....John Ramsey said on television he didn't think about Patsy often so he couldn't have used that one.

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

As I reread old articles and now reading "Death of innocence"..........the Ramseys were SUPER PARENTS and a 'perfect' family house manners etc................
Oh my, they remodeled a huge house, kids had lessons in everything, the pagents, flying from north to south and when I read about Christmas eve, Christ day activities,
visiting, 2 trip planned................where did PR get energy?? She was 40 and a cancer patient........I spin in circles thinking of getting up early making a large Christmas breakfast, pictures, presents,more wrapping, people in and out, packing............

Yes I assume she had some type of "mothers little helper" to get her through...

 

[PositiveLight]

As I reread old articles and now reading "Death of innocence"..........the Ramseys were SUPER PARENTS and a 'perfect' family house manners etc................
Oh my, they remodeled a huge house, kids had lessons in everything, the pagents, flying from north to south and when I read about Christmas eve, Christ day activities,
visiting, 2 trip planned................where did PR get energy?? She was 40 and a cancer patient........I spin in circles thinking of getting up early making a large Christmas breakfast, pictures, presents,more wrapping, people in and out, packing............

I said the same damn thing! I could see how frustration and exhaustion could have played a role in JBR death. No one can keep up with that freaking schedule for long! I got exhausted just reading about it!

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[DrollForeignFaction]

That's an interesting idea about him prompting her in the interview. After watching the video Deedee posted I do think it sounds like he's saying "It's okay." But I'm still not sure. I made a gif of the moment because he seems to do it twice, saying something when he's looking away from her and then glancing over to say something again. It's too big to post directly but here's a link: http://imgur.com/a/dzEVJ

Statement analyst Mark Mcclish thought JR was helping her in the interview at a different point:

RAMSEY, P: We can't -- we can't --

RAMSEY, J: This -- we cannot go on until we know why. There's no answer as to why our daughter died.

He finished her sentence. One might, in context, wonder if this was scripted and rehearsed, with Patsy losing her line.

http://*******************.blogspot.com/2014/10/john-ramsey-jonbenet-his-daughter-in.html

Overall, John always seems to be the one who talks most and directs the interviews, which is a reversal of how friends (such as Pam Archuleta) have described JR and PR socializing, with PR running the show and JR being more reserved.

 

[Springrain]

That goes for me, too. Patsy I forgive. John? Never. And it's true: children who are molested have a better-than-good chance of becoming molesters themselves.

I have some questions Springrain. Not pleasant ones, either. You say that both parents molested both children. Well, if you can expand on that (and if you don't feel like it, I'll understand completely), which parent was molesting which child, why were they doing it and how were they doing it?

I would have a very difficult time forgiving either of them. Not that it matters to them in the least, and Patsy's dead now anyhow, but I find both Patsy and John's actions unforgivable.

At first, honestly, I thought John was the only one molesting the kids. There was evidence of other sexual trauma to Jonbenet, as we all know. I believe John was the one who started molesting the children, and Patsy wanted to protect him from suspicion, and later joined in on it. I don't have scientific evidence to back this up, of course. But both of their interviews/statements/etc. when they're claiming they never hurt her seem to be dripping in lies.

A lot of people don't (and by a lot of people, I mostly mean people who haven't really immersed themselves in the case) believe that they COULD have possibly ever hurt her, because they didn't have violent criminal records, which is just a dumb assumption. Sorry, getting off track here lol.

I think your mom's onto something.

I was kind of ashamed for not realizing that until she pointed it out, lol. It makes perfect sense. People always say, "Well, you know, John's acting a little strange in these interviews, but what do you expect from a man who's lost so much?" That's his whole show. He wants to present himself as the perfect stable, rational, collected, composed, etc. manly man, the rock for his frail family. Every time he opens his mouth, that's clear. His eyes are dead, he's just blabbering as if he's reading from a teleprompter. He doesn't care about it, he just has to be the cool, collected one.

 

[Linda7NJ]

[video]https://www.investigationdiscoverygo.com/jonbenet-an-american-murder-mystery/a-killer-on-the-loose/[/video]

Minute Marker 18:20

Is John mouthing the words "keep your babies close to you"??

Yes, seems he feared Patsy forgot her scripted lines.


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[k-mac]

peter hyatt statement analyist made an interesting observation in a radio interview i listened to awhile back referring to JR finding JB in the cellar.
he talks about how when someone is lying they try to speak with as much honesty as possible to remove themself from as much of the lie as possible.
his interpretation of his statement is suspicious because he uses words that are common in eluding to knowing more if you read between the lines.
JR states he opened the door and there she was.
quite open ended isnt it?
thought it an interesting account.
i'm not up to speed on attaching links yet but if someone was interested in googling his interview and linking it i think it is well worth a listen.
cheers all

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/insidelenz/2013/01/09/crime-wire
found it. hope this is ok to post.

 

[Annapurna]

As I reread old articles and now reading "Death of innocence"..........the Ramseys were SUPER PARENTS and a 'perfect' family house manners etc................
Oh my, they remodeled a huge house, kids had lessons in everything, the pagents, flying from north to south and when I read about Christmas eve, Christ day activities,
visiting, 2 trip planned................where did PR get energy?? She was 40 and a cancer patient........I spin in circles thinking of getting up early making a large Christmas breakfast, pictures, presents,more wrapping, people in and out, packing............

Makes you wonder.... Did they have adderall in 1996? I'm sure there could have been diet pills or something, but what if one of the children (BR) was prescribed an amphetamine or similar drug (for "ADHD") but wasn't taking it? They weren't taking it and PR was. That could contribute to some kind of rage scenario, or even some kind of amphetamine psychosis. This would also explain why she wanted BR's medical records sealed.... Plus we know Dr.Beuf had no problem giving her drugs, at least after JBR died.

 

[Annapurna]

That's an interesting idea about him prompting her in the interview. After watching the video Deedee posted I do think it sounds like he's saying "It's okay." But I'm still not sure. I made a gif of the moment because he seems to do it twice, saying something when he's looking away from her and then glancing over to say something again. It's too big to post directly but here's a link: http://imgur.com/a/dzEVJ

Statement analyst Mark Mcclish thought JR was helping her in the interview at a different point:

http://*******************.blogspot.com/2014/10/john-ramsey-jonbenet-his-daughter-in.html

Overall, John always seems to be the one who talks most and directs the interviews, which is a reversal of how friends (such as Pam Archuleta) have described JR and PR socializing, with PR running the show and JR being more reserved.

Thanks for making that gif!!

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

Makes you wonder.... Did they have adderall in 1996? I'm sure there could have been diet pills or something, but what if one of the children (BR) was prescribed an amphetamine or similar drug (for "ADHD") but wasn't taking it? They weren't taking it and PR was. That could contribute to some kind of rage scenario, or even some kind of amphetamine psychosis. This would also explain why she wanted BR's medical records sealed.... Plus we know Dr.Beuf had no problem giving her drugs, at least after JBR died.

Diet pills, I would assume.

 

[PositiveLight]

Makes you wonder.... Did they have adderall in 1996? I'm sure there could have been diet pills or something, but what if one of the children (BR) was prescribed an amphetamine or similar drug (for "ADHD") but wasn't taking it? They weren't taking it and PR was. That could contribute to some kind of rage scenario, or even some kind of amphetamine psychosis. This would also explain why she wanted BR's medical records sealed.... Plus we know Dr.Beuf had no problem giving her drugs, at least after JBR died.

Very good question!!

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[PositiveLight]

Makes you wonder.... Did they have adderall in 1996? I'm sure there could have been diet pills or something, but what if one of the children (BR) was prescribed an amphetamine or similar drug (for "ADHD") but wasn't taking it? They weren't taking it and PR was. That could contribute to some kind of rage scenario, or even some kind of amphetamine psychosis. This would also explain why she wanted BR's medical records sealed.... Plus we know Dr.Beuf had no problem giving her drugs, at least after JBR died.

Interesting find!!! Worth the read on the history of Adderall! http://www.attn.com/stories/2000/history-amphetamines-united-states

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[Kittybunny]

PR wearing the same clothes she wore the night before. Everyone who knew her said she wouldn't be caught dead in the same outfit two days in a row.

Boulder PD losing track of JR's whereabouts in the home for something close to an hour that morning. Huge red flag given the fact that JR "discovered" her body soon afterwards. Trying to fly out of Boulder on a phony business meeting, staying away from his wife.

Overall I'd say the biggest behavioral red flag is the massive legal wall they built between themselves and police. And I'm someone who fervently believes that any criminal suspect should lawyer up. But you can lawyer up and still cooperate in the interest of finding a killer. The Ramseys did nothing of the sort.

BBM. Top three for me too, although there are a lot of smaller things. And I would add, JR picking up the body and carrying it upstairs. A lot of their lies and words can be explained away (if you really want to though certainly the totality of them starts to get ridiculous) by faulty memories, shock, whatever - but these three things speak to behaviors that are fundamentally different from either their own typical behavior and/or what true grieving people would do. Actions speak louder than words (well, except maybe the words on the ransom note!).

 

[PositiveLight]

BBM. Top three for me too, although there are a lot of smaller things. And I would add, JR picking up the body and carrying it upstairs. A lot of their lies and words can be explained away (if you really want to though certainly the totality of them starts to get ridiculous) by faulty memories, shock, whatever - but these three things speak to behaviors that are fundamentally different from either their own typical behavior and/or what true grieving people would do. Actions speak louder than words (well, except maybe the words on the ransom note!).

I agree with both you and Indian paintbrush. Way to many WTF moments.

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[Charlie]

Makes you wonder.... Did they have adderall in 1996? I'm sure there could have been diet pills or something, but what if one of the children (BR) was prescribed an amphetamine or similar drug (for "ADHD") but wasn't taking it? They weren't taking it and PR was. That could contribute to some kind of rage scenario, or even some kind of amphetamine psychosis. This would also explain why she wanted BR's medical records sealed.... Plus we know Dr.Beuf had no problem giving her drugs, at least after JBR died.

In Australia the doctor I visited as a child was the same one my parents used. In the states is this the same or was Dr Beuf only JB and Burke's doctor? If that's the case why wouldn't patsy see her own doctor for pills?