DC - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 4 federal counts in 2020 election interference, 1 Aug 2023, Trial 4 Mar 2024

[Inthedetails]

IIRC, there were also Republican Senators who had attended meetings with Trump in the days prior approaching Pence on the 6th to "delay the certification" ... and Guiliani's call to them midst-certification "just get us some more time" ...

snipped

The quest for "more time" baffles me. More time for what? They had every right to question election results - that is totally legal and acceptable. They did that, and they found nothing. There was no evidence of anything amiss. So what the heck did they need "more time" for?

What was intended to happen during the "more time"??? Serious question.

jmo

 

[Vern]

I wonder what would happen if I were awaiting trial and started posting on SM saying things like, "If you come after me, I'll come after you" and in a speech to a crowd, called the prosecutor deranged. I wonder if I would be banned from using social media and if I would be incarcerated after I repeated behavior I was instructed by the court to avoid.

And interesting question to ponder when some people are repeatedly bleating about a two-tier justice system.

You'd also be likely to have had a couple of perp walks by now; and, a few mug shots too to go with every one of those walks. Yep, you'd certainly have been subject to the same-tier treatment all others get during the process vice the tier Mr. Trump is being allowed to enjoy.

 

[Vern]

snipped

The quest for "more time" baffles me. More time for what? They had every right to question election results - that is totally legal and acceptable. They did that, and they found nothing. There was no evidence of anything amiss. So what the heck did they need "more time" for?

What was intended to happen during the "more time"??? Serious question.

jmo

I don't know what "more time" was expected to get them rather than the "attempt to interefere in the certification process and therefore disenfranchise millions of voters by trying to have Trump remain in power a wee bit longer". The election investigations had already been done upwards of 50 times and the rulings made.

I think this will end up being a key point in the current charges ... and note that a couple of the unindicted co-conspirators may be exactly some of those same names involved in the calls and texts Jan 6th that occured during the actual certification ... and their attempts to turn words into Pence's actions.

Thankfully they failed and Pence stood his ground and stood for the Constitution and the USofA and not for the dictator-wannabee.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Right now on NPR. Outstanding interview with John Bolton on Morning Edition. I will certainly post again, when it will be available on the website. Everyone should listen to it.

 

[MrsWatson]

snipped

The quest for "more time" baffles me. More time for what? They had every right to question election results - that is totally legal and acceptable. They did that, and they found nothing. There was no evidence of anything amiss. So what the heck did they need "more time" for?

What was intended to happen during the "more time"??? Serious question.

jmo

More time to find more people willing to use fake electors, like they did in Michigan? (Some of whom are also indicted right now.)

Michigan charges 16 fake electors for Donald Trump with election law and forgery felonies

Michigan attorney general files felony charges against 16 who acted as fake electors for then-President Trump in 2020.

apnews.com

 

[Inthedetails]

Remember this Jan 6 happening, bbm.

"Minutes before Congress was set to begin certification of Joe Biden's victory on Jan. 6, 2021, an aide for U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson told former Vice President Mike Pence's staff that Johnson wanted to hand-deliver to Pence votes from Republicans in Wisconsin and Michigan who posed as fake presidential electors for Donald Trump."

Pence refused the delivery.

"Johnson later claimed, 'Somebody delivered this to our office and asked to deliver that to the vice president,' Johnson said. 'I had no involvement in an alternate slate of electors. I had no idea this was even going to be delivered to us.'"

Sen. Ron Johnson wanted to hand-deliver fake electors' votes to Mike Pence on Jan. 6, texts reveal

The exchange offers a new glimpse into the Wisconsin Republican senator's involvement in the run-up to the certification of the 2020 election.

www.jsonline.com

 

[Betty P]

Remember this Jan 6 happening, bbm.

"Minutes before Congress was set to begin certification of Joe Biden's victory on Jan. 6, 2021, an aide for U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson told former Vice President Mike Pence's staff that Johnson wanted to hand-deliver to Pence votes from Republicans in Wisconsin and Michigan who posed as fake presidential electors for Donald Trump."

Pence refused the delivery.

"Johnson later claimed, 'Somebody delivered this to our office and asked to deliver that to the vice president,' Johnson said. 'I had no involvement in an alternate slate of electors. I had no idea this was even going to be delivered to us.'"

Sen. Ron Johnson wanted to hand-deliver fake electors' votes to Mike Pence on Jan. 6, texts reveal

The exchange offers a new glimpse into the Wisconsin Republican senator's involvement in the run-up to the certification of the 2020 election.

www.jsonline.com

Now he's trying to say he had nothing to do with it. Let's see what the evidence and witness testimonies say.

 

[Inthedetails]

More time to find more people willing to use fake electors, like they did in Michigan? (Some of whom are also indicted right now.)

Michigan charges 16 fake electors for Donald Trump with election law and forgery felonies

Michigan attorney general files felony charges against 16 who acted as fake electors for then-President Trump in 2020.

apnews.com

Yes, I bet that's it. And then what would they do? Make up new procedures on when and how to count fake votes when such procedures to count legitimately already exist?

The law states how and when elector votes are to be counted, bbm:
"Counting Electoral Votes in Congress § 15. Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day..."
See page 14 § 15 for the rest of the instructions, which include how to handle objections during the counting: https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/state-officials/presidential-election-brochure.pdf

There is also a section, on page 13 § 5 of the same document, entitled:
"Determination of Controversy as to Appointment of Electors." While the legal language is dense and I'm not a lawyer, I'm not seeing anything that allows stopping proceedings to gather more fake electors.

Did the defendant and co-conspirators not realize that legal experts would know they are breaking the law? Or, did they expect some judges in high-level courts to rule on their side when the scheme would be undoubtedly be challenged? idk

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Now he's trying to say he had nothing to do with it. Let's see what the evidence and witness testimonies say.

If not involved, it still looks like Johnson acted as a mule and set up his staff to serve as mules. "Mule" is a word that was bandied about during false voting fraud claims, but turns out it might describe the defendant's own supporters.

jmo

 

[JerseyGirl]

Jack Smith appealed to the federal judge for a protective order after the defendant posted "You go after me, I'm coming after you."

Smith states, bbm, “'Such a restriction is particularly important in this case because the defendant has previously issued public statements on social media regarding witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him,' Smith wrote in the filing.

'If the defendant were to begin issuing public posts using details — or, for example, grand jury transcripts — obtained in discovery here, it could have a harmful chilling effect on witnesses or adversely affect the fair administration of justice in this case,' he added."

The prosecution proposed two different protective order drafts to Trump’s legal team, both of which they did not agree to, Smith claimed. Trump’s legal team also proposed their version, which the special counsel called inadequate."

DOJ prosecutors request protective order after Trump arraignment, citing social media threats

Editor’s Note: This story has been updated to reflect that the strict order preventing the former president from mentioning details and evidence from the case against him in public is a prote…

thehill.com

Not only could it have a harmful chilling effect on witnesses, but also on potential jurors, imo. And, the words potentially could rile up fans of the defendant to take harmful action.


jmo

Jan. 6 Prosecutors Ask for Protective Order, Citing Threatening Trump Post (Published 2023)

In seeking a judge’s order, the government was drawing attention to the former president’s longstanding habit of attacking those involved in criminal cases against him.

www.nytimes.com

other judges in cases involving Trump have warned him about using threatening language.

At a court hearing in Manhattan in April, Justice Juan M. Merchan, who is overseeing charges stemming from a hush payment to a *advertiser censored* actress, warned the former president to refrain from making comments that were “likely to incite violence or civil unrest.”

Justice Merchan’s admonition came after Mr. Trump posted on Truth Social saying that “death and destruction” could follow if he were charged in the case in Manhattan.

That same month, Judge Lewis A. Kaplan, who was presiding over a federal rape and defamation lawsuit filed by the writer E. Jean Carroll, criticized the former president for posting messages about the case. The ones he had already written were “entirely inappropriate,” the judge said. Mr. Trump had derided the case on social media as a “scam” and personally mocked Ms. Carroll.

After the hearing in front of Justice Merchan, Mr. Trump returned to Florida, called the district attorney who brought the New York charges against him, Alvin L. Bragg, a “criminal,” and Justice Merchan as “a Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife and family.”

Days after Judge Kaplan’s admonition, Mr. Trump attacked him too, saying on a trip to one of his golf courses in Ireland that the judge was “extremely hostile.”

 

[Betty P]

Yes, I bet that's it. And then what would they do? Make up new procedures on when and how to count fake votes when such procedures already exist?

The law states how and when elector votes are to be counted, bbm:
"Counting Electoral Votes in Congress § 15. Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day..."
See page 14 § 15 for the rest of the instructions, which include how to handle objections during the counting: https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/state-officials/presidential-election-brochure.pdf

There is also a section, on page 13 § 5 of the same document, entitled:
"Determination of Controversy as to Appointment of Electors." While the legal language is dense and I'm not a lawyer, I'm not seeing anything that allows stopping proceedings to gather more fake electors.

Did the defendant and co-conspirators not realize that legal experts would know they are breaking the law? Or, did they expect some judges in high-level courts to rule on their side when the scheme would be undoubtedly be challenged? idk

jmo

Many of us knew this was illegal, at the time they were attempting to carry it out. If you studied the US Constitution in school, you had to be familiar with these laws. Watching in real time, it was obvious to me they were breaking the laws, and I hoped someone would have courage to file charges. I'm glad it's happening, but I still fear those in charge are still easily intimidated. We don't have a choice, this has to be done.

 

[d0lphin]

It's the hardest thing I've ever had to believe in my life, and I'm no spring chicken.

But whatever you and I believe, however difficult it is, current polls show him and Biden in a dead heat for the 2024 election.

The good news is I find it easy to believe that the accuracy of polls is overestimated.

I feel the same, I would find it hard to believe him having a dozen followers, let alone millions!

I've said it before but until the day I die, I will never understand how it wasn’t the end of him when he mocked the disabled reporter. I'm from the UK and I'm pretty sure that if a politician did that over here then it would be the end of their career.

The one thing that pleases me at the moment is the report that that Trump is scared. In fact it delights me.

 

[Inthedetails]

Perfect answer from Pence. imo

Kelsey Walsh
@Kjwalsh_news

A dozen Trump supporters approached Mike Pence’s vehicle as he entered his Friday event yelling, “that’s a traitor,” “you’re a sellout,” and “why didn’t you uphold the constitution?” “I upheld the constitution,” Pence shouted back. As they badgered him he yelled, “Read it!”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687790243171205120

 

[sds71]

@Brandi_Buchman

And now, on a Saturday, (appearing unwilling to waste much time) Judge Chutkan has given Donald Trump until 5pm ET Monday to respond to the special counsel's motion for a protective order following Trump's ostensible threat post on social media:

 

[ilovewings]

@Brandi_Buchman

And now, on a Saturday, (appearing unwilling to waste much time) Judge Chutkan has given Donald Trump until 5pm ET Monday to respond to the special counsel's motion for a protective order following Trump's ostensible threat post on social media:

This judge ain't takin' no nonsense from Trump-- I love it
She will throw his big ol' butt in jail- she will-- before he knows what hit him
all these other judges just let him rant and rant and make threat after ugly threat- she will not allow it

 

[Inthedetails]

@Brandi_Buchman

And now, on a Saturday, (appearing unwilling to waste much time) Judge Chutkan has given Donald Trump until 5pm ET Monday to respond to the special counsel's motion for a protective order following Trump's ostensible threat post on social media:

Good. Decisive action when called for (and it's the defendant's actions that called for this decisive action from the court).

jmo

 

[Cubby]

Trump calls for Supreme Court to 'intercede' against Biden after third indictment

Former President Donald Trump called for the U.S. Supreme Court to "intercede" in the 2024 presidential race.

www.cnbc.com

Trump wrote. " but this is not a level playing field."

RSBM. This says it all. Look at his demeanor when he is photographed. He looks like a dejected man who knows he has crossed a line he can not redo. He looks like a man who knows the gig is up, he's at the end of the line and there really isn't anything he can do about the outlook on his future.

Someone would be wise to do some ads featuring all of those participating in Jan 6 and now in prison, to remind folks what supporting Trump can look like .... (Kind of like those ads that feature former cigarette smokers at the end of their lives).

Not all that glitters, is gold.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Here is the John Bolton interview from NPR this morning........
I hope our international folks can get it.........

Its 7 minutes or so.... and full of good remarks.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/05/1192343947/john-bolton-trumps-ex-national-security-advisor-shares-his-views-on-the-indictme

 

[Inthedetails]

This judge ain't takin' no nonsense from Trump-- I love it
She will throw his big ol' butt in jail- she will-- before he knows what hit him
all these other judges just let him rant and rant and make threat after ugly threat- she will not allow it

I don't expect he will be thrown in jail, at least not yet. I expect a more clear instruction that requires more from him than agreeing to be a good boy. He needs big, bold boundaries because otherwise he stands with his toes touching the line, shouting, "See, I'm not crossing it!"

(Having flashbacks to my siblings in the backseat of the car touching the seams of the seat that served as our boundaries and then squabbling about whether we infringed each others' spaces or not....until my dad told us to knock it off. Childish behavior, corrected by authority.)

jmo

 

[ilovewings]

Here is the John Bolton interview from NPR this morning........
I hope our international folks can get it.........

Its 7 minutes or so.... and full of good remarks.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/05/1192343947/john-bolton-trumps-ex-national-security-advisor-shares-his-views-on-the-indictme

Thanks for posting this interesting interview--I recall Mr Boltion as being a staunch Trump advocator,
But it is clear he seess the reality that Trump attempted to overthrow an election, and that the first
Amendment defense wont fly, and he has come out clearly to state his belief----