DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #11

[Millhouse]

I don't know how they place value on limited sports cars. From everything I have been reading 2004 is the first year the car was made, and it is reported that SS knew Mosler. I do realize SS was not the original owner it is possible that SS owns the first one made. Would that increase the value of the car.
I was reading a forum with posts written by Mosler MT900 owners and those considering buying one. Some things I found interesting. Several of the owners let others drive their car. Many posted that they park others at their homes.
None of this has anything to do with the murders, I just thought it was interesting in regulars to speculation about if SS would allow JW to drive his, and speculations on why it wasn't stored somewhere else.

I saw on facebook that SS was friends with someone with the last name Mosler. Seems to support your statement of reports that SS knew Mosler.

 

[TexMex]

This scenario has always made the most sense to me. But that would mean that JW's lies to LE and the backpack in his car w/his passport and expired Mosler registration are insignificant.... JMO.

IMO if there were any link at all between JW and DW and if JW's story had not been verified through other people, video, calls, texts and subsequent interviews then JW would be in jail today. The lies he told for whatever reason and the fact that he was contacted to deliver the money resulted in making sure his involvement was thoroughly investigated. LE knows about everything we know and more so if there was not an explanation for the registration and passport they'd have investigated that too.

 

[i.b.nora]

ABC news

The fifth search warrant says a shoe or boot print was found by investigators on one of the Savopoulos home's French-style doors, suggesting there was forced entry into the house. The door had a single broken window pane and had suffered damage near the lock. Investigators are now searching for any shoe or boot with a similar tread pattern.


View attachment 75979
Breakfast on the Island

And ... Entry and exit doors on houses always open inward. Screen doors and storm doors open out. The photo is of an exterior door that opens in.

 

[Millhouse]

On the VIN check, before SS owned it, it showed a repair was done to the car. That also affects value.

Definitely true. We also don't know what SS has done to it while in his possession that could increase or decrease the value. By all of my own Googling attempts, the only values I'm seeing for this model are in the $200-300K range.

With cars that are this limited in number though, I'm curious as to what values like this even mean. If someone has a Mosler to sell, or someone wants one, and there are only 17 out there of this model, then that probably sways the numbers a bit. It's probably a very specialized market and actual values people pay for them might not be readily posted on the internet.
I doubt people sell these bad boys on Craiglist or at Carmax where it's easy to see sales prices , and at the end of the day, an item is worth whatever someone will pay for it, and I just wonder if the limited number in existence pushes that value up if someone decides they want it.

Where did the $700K number come from? JW? Elsewhere?

 

[corundogs]

And ... Entry and exit doors on houses always open inward. Screen doors and storm doors open out. The photo is of an exterior door that opens in.

I was just thinking about that. In my head, I was thinking had I ever seen an entry door that opened OUT?? I couldn't come up with anything...

Do we know why that is? I mean, it seems like it would make more sense that they don't, because they are more secure...but there must be a reason.

I thought about businesses where the door has a sign that says "Pull to open" because instinct tells us to "Push to open". They are rare, but I know they exist because I have a Service Dog and my pain and balance issues make it hard for me to pull open a door.

 

[stmarysmead]

I think they were absolutely tied up before SS arrived home. He made AS contact SS so he would know approx the time he'd arrive. Wait and ambush him.

Yes...maybe there wasn't enough money/valuables in the home as he thought so he waited for the bank to open.

I want to know how SS got to work on Wednesday morning. Did W-1 pick him up as usual? What car were they using that day? Did W-1 drive him home from the Dojo?Did he drop him in the driveway or the front of the house? Where did W-1 have his car parked that day? Did SS take the key from W-1 to whatever car they were in or did W-1 have a routine about where to leave SS's car keys?

What calls and texts did W-1 receive that afternoon? Any that came from AS phone?

Did SS talk to AS himself or was the "come home" message...a text? Or did someone relay that message..."I got a text from Mrs S looking for you...she wants me to find you and drive you home now. She wants to go out."

Does the Charging Doc quote 6PM as the start of the crime because DW is charged ONLY with SS murder at this time and that is when the ordeal began for HIM?

The violence horrifies and puzzles me, because it seems so personal. I know that DW has a history of threatening violence and pushing women around. I know he threatened a child once. But a threat and hours and hours of inflicting torture...it just seems like the kind of intense hatred that doesn't work unless he was on drugs or continually drunk over those long hours. Something seems so personal about this crime. Being fired years and years ago, somehow does not work for me. And who could hate that child so much? Hate the Father, maybe. But PS? But what do I know? Maybe DW is a sadist. Maybe he was just an unreliable person to be used as the "inside man."

If W-1 is involved, then I'm assuming a crime was planned where he thought he would not be suspected. If SS knew at any point that W-1 was involved, SS and family would have to die. Although, I am of the opinion that W-1 is involved, I think this was meant to be a property crime, and some members of the "Team" went rogue. Why do I think W-1 would not hurt the family? I ask myself that question. Because he doesn't seem the type? Neither did darling Scott Peterson, the "wonderful husband" Sharon Rocha vouched for. So what do I know of him either? None of us can do anything but guess about any of these people.

W-1 did not believe, IMO, as one of the key players around the family, that he could actually keep any one of the cars. But the Mosler registration figures in here somehow IMO. Even as a "souvenir" as many perps like to keep. But I think they had plans for some of the cars as a means to acquire more money. I like the chop shop theory.

Finally, I keep thinking of that big safe in the garage.....W-1 must have seen that big safe often. I wonder if he assumed that there was a lot of money or valuables kept in a rich man's BIG safe in the garage. Maybe the original plan was for the "insiders" to tie up the family, get SS to open that safe, take the valuables and make off with a car or two. Strip them. Divide the proceeds.

But maybe there was nothing but papers in the safe. The inside guys decide they are not walking away from this with a stolen car or two. They have heard from W-1 that this family is LOADED. They improvise. They text W-1 using SS phone to go get money the next day. They sit around all night..order pizza..and wait. But the flurry of phone calls only comes up with $40,000.

W-1 is pretty happy when he texts the money picture. He doesn't see it as a risk because he has the cover story, verified by the accountant, that he was told to do this. When he gets to the house, he finds things have escalated. Too late now.

The inside guys are frustrated, they have cut on the family and their child to try to extort more information, more money, and now it's a bigger crime. W-1 drops off the money and is told they have to kill them all. At this point, W-1's only goal is to get himself an alibi.

What car did he drive over to deliver the money in? Did he change to his own car after the drop? Did he take his own car back to the Dojo at that point? I think the last phone call is a signal. It's done.

I think this was a case of a crime that seemed like easy money. But getting money after all wasn't easy. In the end, the Porsche was burned because 4 people were dead and the Perps knew that unlike a property crime, LE would be on this like white on rice.

Just my latest opinion, based on next to nothing as we wait for actual facts.

 

[i.b.nora]

Architectural standards and centuries old traditions (and building codes) are different for houses and business establishments.

 

[corundogs]

Architectural standards and centuries old traditions (and building codes) are different for houses and business establishments.

LOL!! I had to google...and like almost every other question I have posed to Google, others have had the same question...

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/remodeling/question584.htm

The basic doorway in your home has a very simple structure: A large board is attached to a frame using a few "pin" hinges. This design has a number of advantages -- it is easy to build, easy to install and easy to repair. Of course, it is also very easy to disassemble -- removing the hinge pins completely detaches the door from the frame.

While this might help you out a good deal as a homeowner -- you can remove the door in order to squeeze in an over-sized couch, for example -- it's not something you want to make accessible to intruders. For this reason, the hinge mechanism needs to be positioned inside the house. With a standard hinge design, this means the door will open inward.

Public buildings have the same security concerns, of course, but they also have to consider other safety factors. Unlike a private home, a public building is likely to have large numbers of people in it. In case of fire or other emergency, these people need to be evacuated as quickly and easily as possible.

When a mob of people rushes an exit, it's very hard for somebody to open the door inward -- everyone pushes up against the door, and there is no room for it to open. For this reason, an effective emergency exit needs to open outward, moving with the force of the mob. This is also why a lot of emergency exits are built with wide "panic bars" instead of ordinary door knobs. The basic idea is to build the exit so even the most out-of-control mob will be able to escape.

 

[TexMex]

I want to know how SS got to work on Wednesday morning. Did W-1 pick him up as usual? What car were they using that day? Did W-1 drive him home from the Dojo?Did he drop him in the driveway or the front of the house? Where did W-1 have his car parked that day? Did SS take the key from W-1 to whatever car they were in or did W-1 have a routine about where to leave SS's car keys?

What calls and texts did W-1 receive that afternoon? Any that came from AS phone?

Did SS talk to AS himself or was the "come home" message...a text? Or did someone relay that message..."I got a text from Mrs S looking for you...she wants me to find you and drive you home now. She wants to go out."

Does the Charging Doc quote 6PM as the start of the crime because DW is charged ONLY with SS murder at this time and that is when the ordeal began for HIM?

The violence horrifies and puzzles me, because it seems so personal. I know that DW has a history of threatening violence and pushing women around. I know he threatened a child once. But a threat and hours and hours of inflicting torture...it just seems like the kind of intense hatred that doesn't work unless he was on drugs or continually drunk over those long hours. Something seems so personal about this crime. Being fired years and years ago, somehow does not work for me. And who could hate that child so much? Hate the Father, maybe. But PS? But what do I know? Maybe DW is a sadist. Maybe he was just an unreliable person to be used as the "inside man."

If W-1 is involved, then I'm assuming a crime was planned where he thought he would not be suspected. If SS knew at any point that W-1 was involved, SS and family would have to die. Although, I am of the opinion that W-1 is involved, I think this was meant to be a property crime, and some members of the "Team" went rogue. Why do I think W-1 would not hurt the family? I ask myself that question. Because he doesn't seem the type? Neither did darling Scott Peterson, the "wonderful husband" Sharon Rocha vouched for. So what do I know of him either? None of us can do anything but guess about any of these people.

W-1 did not believe, IMO, as one of the key players around the family, that he could actually keep any one of the cars. But the Mosler registration figures in here somehow IMO. Even as a "souvenir" as many perps like to keep. But I think they had plans for some of the cars as a means to acquire more money. I like the chop shop theory.

Finally, I keep thinking of that big safe in the garage.....W-1 must have seen that big safe often. I wonder if he assumed that there was a lot of money or valuables kept in a rich man's BIG safe in the garage. Maybe the original plan was for the "insiders" to tie up the family, get SS to open that safe, take the valuables and make off with a car or two. Strip them. Divide the proceeds.

But maybe there was nothing but papers in the safe. The inside guys decide they are not walking away from this with a stolen car or two. They have heard from W-1 that this family is LOADED. They improvise. They text W-1 using SS phone to go get money the next day. They sit around all night..order pizza..and wait. But the flurry of phone calls only comes up with $40,000.

W-1 is pretty happy when he texts the money picture. He doesn't see it as a risk because he has the cover story, verified by the accountant, that he was told to do this. When he gets to the house, he finds things have escalated. Too late now.

The inside guys are frustrated, they have cut on the family and their child to try to extort more information, more money, and now it's a bigger crime. W-1 drops off the money and is told they have to kill them all. At this point, W-1's only goal is to get himself an alibi.

What car did he drive over to deliver the money in? Did he change to his own car after the drop? Did he take his own car back to the Dojo at that point? I think the last phone call is a signal. It's done.

I think this was a case of a crime that seemed like easy money. But getting money after all wasn't easy. In the end, the Porsche was burned because 4 people were dead and the Perps knew that unlike a property crime, LE would be on this like white on rice.

Just my latest opinion, based on next to nothing as we wait for actual facts.

But as of now (Wed will be four weeks after the hostage taking) there seems to be no link between JW and DW. Their fathers/families living two blocks apart in huge apartment complexes many years ago is certainly not proof they ever met much less conspired in a kidnapping plot.
IMO

 

[err]

But as of now (Wed will be four weeks after the hostage taking) there seems to be no link between JW and DW. Their fathers/families living two blocks apart in huge apartment complexes many years ago is certainly not proof they ever met much less conspired in a kidnapping plot.
IMO

And if DW killed the other 4 so easily, why not also kill W-1 when he dropped off the $$ and at least get his share, assuming he had one?

 

[corundogs]

And if DW killed the other 4 so easily, why not also kill W-1 when he dropped off the $$ and at least get his share, assuming he had one?

Brilliant!

 

[clearskies1]

And if DW killed the other 4 so easily, why not also kill W-1 when he dropped off the $$ and at least get his share, assuming he had one?

At that point the 4 were bound. W-1 was not.

 

[stmarysmead]

But as of now (Wed will be four weeks after the hostage taking) there seems to be no link between JW and DW. Their fathers/families living two blocks apart in huge apartment complexes many years ago is certainly not proof they ever met much less conspired in a kidnapping plot.
IMO

I agree. But the link could be a mutual friend or acquaintance. W-1 and someone else make a plan. The friend says he knows a guy that can help. W-1 does not need to "know" DW himself. I'm sure LE is looking at all the possible spiderwebs of links between the two.

Or DW and "someone who knows W-1"...THEY make the plan. W-1 gets brought in to give insider info. He is told no one will get hurt and he'll get a nice cut.

The fact that W-1 has not been arrested TO OUR KNOWLEDGE... knowing that the other people in the car have not been arrested...doesn't get me to the point of saying he is innocent or has been cleared. Why is LE's response about him always "no comment?" Why have all the news outlets...who have various personal sources...focused on HIM?

If LE has cleared him, it's irresponsible to let the media keep putting him in headlines. It's morally wrong to just answer "no comment."

I knew a woman once whose son was being accused by neighbors of vandalizing property. At a POA meeting, this woman called on her best friend to speak up for her son. She said her friend knew him better than anyone, knew him from infancy, and that she would vouch that he was no "vandal." All eyes turned to the Best Friend.

"No comment." She said.

I think of that.

 

[stmarysmead]

And if DW killed the other 4 so easily, why not also kill W-1 when he dropped off the $$ and at least get his share, assuming he had one?

We don't know that they had an opportunity.

 

[DexterMorgan]

The smart ones usually plan things but they always seem to enlist the help of gentle prospects that seem to always go off script and start killing people.

We always see how a simple easy plan goes awary due to the hot head one going overboard.

I doubt the original blueprint consisted of killing everybody. Jmo

 

[Peliman]

To find out today's true value of the Mosler you'd have to put it up for auction at Jackson Barrett auctions and let the countries bidders have a chance to bid. It was and is a collectors item and it's worth what a buyers willing to pay. Some collectors may have a million or so to throw at it.

IMO - I don't think the tags from when it was purchased in Fla. were ever changed. They maybe even laying around the home somewhere. The car probably has less than 10,000 miles on it and SS was probably attached to it.

Even at $200K no insurance company would cover it for collision on a race track.

ALL JMO

 

[khaki]

So one possibility is that the perp broke in when SS was not home, tied up the victims with duct tape, and then made AS to call SS to get him home. Perhaps perp was thinking that SS could get a large amount of money quickly, but that was not possible, so he kept victims tied up overnight. Then he made SS to get money delivered and killed all of the victims before driving away in a Porsche. That could explain how one man could do it all, and why only one man is seen on security video running away from burning Porsche.
AS, VF and PS could have been tied up already before SS showed up.

I agree with this, and have thought so from the beginning. It never surprised me that one person could have carried out the horrors that took place inside the home, but I do believe others were involved in the entirety of the crime. I know many disagree. And, IMO, the last communication from SS's phone at 11:54 am was to signal to JW the crime inside the home was complete, everyone was dead, and he would be leaving.

 

[BrownRice]

So one possibility is that the perp broke in when SS was not home, tied up the victims with duct tape, and then made AS to call SS to get him home. Perhaps perp was thinking that SS could get a large amount of money quickly, but that was not possible, so he kept victims tied up overnight. Then he made SS to get money delivered and killed all of the victims before driving away in a Porsche. That could explain how one man could do it all, and why only one man is seen on security video running away from burning Porsche.
AS, VF and PS could have been tied up already before SS showed up.

I really think it had to happen that way.

 

[Millhouse]

I want to know how SS got to work on Wednesday morning. Did W-1 pick him up as usual? What car were they using that day? Did W-1 drive him home from the Dojo?Did he drop him in the driveway or the front of the house? Where did W-1 have his car parked that day? Did SS take the key from W-1 to whatever car they were in or did W-1 have a routine about where to leave SS's car keys?

What calls and texts did W-1 receive that afternoon? Any that came from AS phone?

Did SS talk to AS himself or was the "come home" message...a text? Or did someone relay that message..."I got a text from Mrs S looking for you...she wants me to find you and drive you home now. She wants to go out."

Does the Charging Doc quote 6PM as the start of the crime because DW is charged ONLY with SS murder at this time and that is when the ordeal began for HIM?

<snipped for space>

Everyone's day on Wednesday is really interesting to me as well- where was JW at all day? The SW for his phone records went back to May 10, so LE probably has this information, or at least will soon if they don't already. And as you state, why the 6PM "start time?"

I'm really on the fence about JW's involvement. LE knows way more than we do at this point, and knows that reports that he has lied, reports of what was found in his car, etc. are out in the open now. LE has still not stated he is cooperating, not a suspect, or anything of that nature. They have also stated that DW did not act alone, yet no one else has been arrested. I am just really curious as to what other information they have right now...

 

[TexMex]

At that point the 4 were bound. W-1 was not.

Of course not. But he could have, when JW called ten minutes away, directed him to come in the house ,instead of putting the envelope in the red car, leave the money on the entry hall table, the kitchen counter, a coffee table...whatever, then ambushed him just like SS was surprised.