DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #14

[kammiemc]

This is correct.

So, how unusual would it be for LE to suspect someone (such as some of those picked up in the convoy with DW, or even JW) yet hold off on arresting them for weeks as they gather more hard evidence? It seems like from what people are saying that it is unheard of. One person on another forum said that, you make the arrest and build your case later. Are there any scenarios where an arrest would be strategically delayed for investigative purposes.

 

[yepitsme]

Yes, but once LE deems them a suspect, they must read him/her their rights. Even if they aren't arresting him/her. If they are later shown to have suspected the interviewee and not Mirandized him/her, the interview can be thrown out. After questioning the suspect, LE can release him/her if they don't have enough to charge him/her. Y/N?

That is not true. If a person is free to go, even if LE suspects him, they do not have to read him his rights. The catch phrase is "custodial interrogation." You need both. The person has to be in custody and has to be interrogated. Theoretically, if someone is arrested -- in custody -- and you aren't interrogating him, you don;t need to read him his rights. if he blurts something out, its admissible. However, in practice defense lawyers would fight that and LE routinely just reads people their rights when they are put under arrest.

They can suspect someone all the want. If he can get up and leave the room, anything he says is fair game.

 

[yepitsme]

This is correct.

Not exactly, as I wrote before.

 

[katydid23]

You could very well be right. And I hope you are. This map doesn't indicate the two addresses that are 348 yards away. Those addresses are 5301 and 5303 85th. It seems a popular neighborhood for members of each respective family to live.

This map indicates the families might as well have been hundreds of miles away from each other. There are several apt. complexes between them. And we don't even know if either JW or DW were ever living there. It is a big stretch to assume they were and a bigger stretch to assume they even met each other, imo.

 

[Peliman]

Two odd things showed in the spider web Google searches I do.

1. A YouTube video of a business robbery in the 4200 block of Connecticut Avenue last November. Red bag.

2. A wordpress blog with a very inflammatory with a very bad graphic by a student/guy who was in the news in south Georgia in April. I will not post here. Ugh to the guy and his hate- mongering.

Tonight I will mine JW. I do not think he is involved. I think he is on protective custody. JMO.

Curious why he might be in protective custody? I'd read early on stated in a sealed warrant W1 and W2 were being protected by the sealing but not sure why.

I'm also curious about any SW for the Porsche that burned, what might have been found in the burned out car.

 

[birpu]

This map indicates the families might as well have been hundreds of miles away from each other. There are several apt. complexes between them. And we don't even know if either JW or DW were ever living there. It is a big stretch to assume they were and a bigger stretch to assume they even met each other, imo.

Alright. Just to help out a little, I went through EVERY case number for DW in Prince George County to check his addresses.
He gave his address as 5301 85th ave #202 in Nov of 2005.
Supposedly JW's father lived at 5303 from Feb 2004 through Nov 2007.
In 2005, DW would have been 25. JW would have been 18. DW's brother (the one in the caravan with him) would have been 19/20.

These are not huge apartment complexes. They are two-story buildings with not that many parking spaces for each if you blow up the Google satellite images. These two addresses are indeed 348 feet apart. There is only one building between them. Use that GoogleMaps!!!

Just trying to help. Of course it doesn't mean anything. Yet. But the coincidence is surely, surely, surely something LE is looking at. In fact, I'm sure they know a whole lot about that.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Maybe the $40k was prize money for the Dojo competition winners. Why the flurry of calls Wednesday if this was pre-arranged? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it was prearranged that the money was for the opening scheduled on Friday, the desperate calls could have been just to change the delivery time and location.

WSers have suggested - I do agree - that this cash was the idea of SS to hopefully leverage a safe end for everyone.

Example: it's already been discussed by SS and employee that there would be the 40k cash withdrawal, but SS needs it NOW instead of late in the day on Thursday or on Friday morning whatever the original plan was.

If it was already in the AIW safe on Wed and depending on the time he thought of offering this, SS could have had the emp. give the cash to JW and have him bring it SS at home, but that could raise alarm. It would be hard to ask the emp. to return to work, arrange to have JW meet him there to pick up the cash and deliver that evening.

But, it looks like the arrangements began on Wed eve between SS/emp/JW ?

Confusing reports.

 

[TexMex]

That is exactly the point! And why was it only $20K. Where was the other half?

IMO the bulk of $40K was recovered during the arrest of Wint. Let's wait and see the final tally before blaming a guy SS trusted to deliver cash he thought would save his family. LE hasn't listed how much the "large stack of $100 bills" added up to.

 

[FelicityLemon]

So, how unusual would it be for LE to suspect someone (such as some of those picked up in the convoy with DW, or even JW) yet hold off on arresting them for weeks as they gather more hard evidence? It seems like from what people are saying that it is unheard of. One person on another forum said that, you make the arrest and build your case later. Are there any scenarios where an arrest would be strategically delayed for investigative purposes.

Good question!

On TV, they release a suspect if they don't have enough to arrest, but they continue to observe them, gather evidence and build a case.
*ducking*

 

[emmavoberry]

Correct me if I'm wrong (NOT all at once!!!) but once LE names someone as a suspect, they must "Mirandize" him/her. The suspect is no longer free to leave at any time and knows anything they say can be used against them in building LE's case. Until the person is named a suspect, he/she can leave at any time and are a "cooperating witness" or something. Anything they say can still be used in court, but the interviewee does not have to be notified of that fact until they are deemed a suspect by LE. Makes for a less adversarial relationship and seldom involves the interviewee bringing his lawyer along for company. More or less?

The Miranda rule is highly applicable to what is going on right now, JMO! Excellent call.
Two triggers for Mirandizing 1) Police custody--this usually comes down to arrest, not detention, so you are not cuffed, for instance, and you are not made to feel your freedom is significantly impeded in some way 2) Interrogation--usually means a formal questioning with the purpose of getting information from a person in custody that may implicate him/her in a crime--"Did you club X over the head?" would be a no, no but "Can you tell us about running into X today at the IHOP? How'd he look to you?" would be okay.

I'd like others to chime in on whether or not likely JW was Mirandized. He was not in custody. Interrogated? The thing of it is, as I understand it, custody is what you are usually in when being interrogated. That you are not in custody does not make interrogation o.k. but makes it easier for police to say "we were just talking and trying to get some info. Then he said and we just asked him was he sure? We just told her that was strange because that wasn't what Y said.


It seems to me you are "on the money," that LE is avoiding triggering Miranda until they are ready to arrest so as to keep folks talking as "witnesses." I think it would be difficult for them to question JW further now (since the SW of his car) without triggering Miranda. IDK.

 

[kammiemc]

This map indicates the families might as well have been hundreds of miles away from each other. There are several apt. complexes between them. And we don't even know if either JW or DW were ever living there. It is a big stretch to assume they were and a bigger stretch to assume they even met each other, imo.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The two addresses that are 348 feet apart are 5301 and 5303 85th Ave. DW lived at one of those addresses and JW's dad lived at the other. They are not miles apart, they are about 100 yards apart. And this is not a map that pins those two locations. I didn't post this map as an example, someone else did, thinking that I was referring to the addresses on this map. But I wasn't.

 

[emmavoberry]

It's not illegal to tell why a company fired an employee, but it's not good business sense.

I think some of JW's time before Autobahn was spent in Texas. Found a few tidbits, but am unable to pull together a real timeline.

Worked for a lawyer. Can trigger a suit. She was very cautious when she fired an independent contractor/our dear old reliable garden-variety sociopath..and it's easy to fire at will folks--but she had to not say more than yeah, he worked here and if she had been caught going to the non-profit he was next taken up by with stories of his gross actions in the workplace, he could sue her. All an employer in my state can say if asked is "Yes. She worked for us." Maybe different in different states or I'm wrong to say "illegal?"
PS: she did go behind his back totally privately but she knew the other non-profit head quite well and we are not talking about big contactual stuff.

 

[popsicle]

LE has been working the case almost 5 weeks... DNA and all.... just sayin'.

 

[emmavoberry]

So, how unusual would it be for LE to suspect someone (such as some of those picked up in the convoy with DW, or even JW) yet hold off on arresting them for weeks as they gather more hard evidence? It seems like from what people are saying that it is unheard of. One person on another forum said that, you make the arrest and build your case later. Are there any scenarios where an arrest would be strategically delayed for investigative purposes.

That would be a great way, having no evidence and preferably as much as possible, to have a case thrown out ...and anything collected post-arrest not based on legitimate evidence could be thrown out as fruit of the poisoned tree. Way before trial you'd have the arrest charges dropped because there was not a basis for it. JMO long time since my studies
In practice, LE does do stuff retrospectively--like with the whole search and seizure thing, they stopped you supposedly cause your tail light out, then spotted something that triggered glove compartment search. Only thing, they didn't spot the tail light out until AFTER they stopped you.

A bad strategy tho for a big case that is going to quite possibly land in court, not that it's never done. But today, despite some of the atrocious behaviors we do know about, it is terribly important to make that arrest stick and get as much of the evidence in as possible. JMO

 

[rkf]

That is not true. If a person is free to go, even if LE suspects him, they do not have to read him his rights. The catch phrase is "custodial interrogation." You need both. The person has to be in custody and has to be interrogated. Theoretically, if someone is arrested -- in custody -- and you aren't interrogating him, you don;t need to read him his rights. if he blurts something out, its admissible. However, in practice defense lawyers would fight that and LE routinely just reads people their rights when they are put under arrest.

They can suspect someone all the want. If he can get up and leave the room, anything he says is fair game.

Thank you.

 

[mrssunshine]

Y

;

These are not huge apartment complexes. They are two-story buildings with not that many parking spaces for each if you blow up the Google satellite images. These two addresses are indeed 348 feet apart. There is only one building between them. Use that GoogleMaps!!!

Just trying to help. Of course it doesn't mean anything. Yet. But the coincidence is surely, surely, surely something LE is looking at. In fact, I'm sure they know a whole lot about that.

I just wanted to chime in because I used to live very near New Carollton, in Lanham right down the road from DWs fathers address in a similar apt complex. They are 2 stories but 3 floors. They are very large. Bigger in real life IMO then looking at Google maps may seem. Also there are so many people in this area (it's close to DC and Baltimore) you can live in one of those buildings, as I did, and not even know who is living above you. The population difference in places like that vs a place where I live now (PA) is huge. And it would not surprise me if they did not know despite the close proximity of the addresses.

 

[kammiemc]

Alright. Just to help out a little, I went through EVERY case number for DW in Prince George County to check his addresses.
He gave his address as 5301 85th ave #202 in Nov of 2005.
Supposedly JW's father lived at 5303 from Feb 2004 through Nov 2007.
In 2005, DW would have been 25. JW would have been 18. DW's brother (the one in the caravan with him) would have been 19/20.

These are not huge apartment complexes. They are two-story buildings with not that many parking spaces for each if you blow up the Google satellite images. These two addresses are indeed 348 feet apart. There is only one building between them. Use that GoogleMaps!!!

Just trying to help. Of course it doesn't mean anything. Yet. But the coincidence is surely, surely, surely something LE is looking at. In fact, I'm sure they know a whole lot about that.

God bless you!! What it does mean is that I'm not crazy--which I was starting to feel!

 

[stmarysmead]

IMO the bulk of $40K was recovered during the arrest of Wint. Let's wait and see the final tally before blaming a guy SS trusted to deliver cash he thought would save his family. LE hasn't listed how much the "large stack of $100 bills" added up to.

Respectfully, whether SS "trusted" JW to deliver that money is something we do not know. SS may have been told, while his son, wife and housekeeper were in dire distress...to call JW and make him the delivery boy. SS was in the control of the perps...so the "selection" of JW does not designate his great trust in him at least not to this point. It's pure emotionalism to think that we know what SS felt about JW. We don't. You may be right or terribly wrong.

Just clarifying for the record. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion.

 

[rkf]

Worked for a lawyer. Can trigger a suit. She was very cautious when she fired an independent contractor/our dear old reliable garden-variety sociopath..and it's easy to fire at will folks--but she had to not say more than yeah, he worked here and if she had been caught going to the non-profit he was next taken up by with stories of his gross actions in the workplace, he could sue her. All an employer in my state can say if asked is "Yes. She worked for us." Maybe different in different states or I'm wrong to say "illegal?"
PS: she did go behind his back totally privately but she knew the other non-profit head quite well and we are not talking about big contactual stuff.

I think an employer can't lie about why an employee was terminated. As long as it's true, they can say it. I don't know what benefit a company sees in providing that information to the media, but if a prospective employer asks a previous employer about a candidate, the previous employer absolutely can tell why the employee was let go. Yes, the employee can always sue or threaten to sue, but unless the case has grounds, they won't win. It can end up costing time and money that an employer doesn't want to waste, but that is the employer's choice, not law. I personally think if a previous employer isn't honest with the prospective employer, he/she is doing a disservice by not warning of the employee's actions that precipitated the firing.

As someone posted earlier, that's why it usually takes a little while to fire someone, as the company wants to create a record of what leads to the firing. The fact that JW was fired in apparent haste makes the cause seem more egregious. In fairness, we have no idea how long Autobahn was planning to fire him. We just know that according to SM, JW didn't seem to see it coming.

 

[James Bond]

So, how unusual would it be for LE to suspect someone (such as some of those picked up in the convoy with DW, or even JW) yet hold off on arresting them for weeks as they gather more hard evidence? It seems like from what people are saying that it is unheard of. One person on another forum said that, you make the arrest and build your case later. Are there any scenarios where an arrest would be strategically delayed for investigative purposes.

Yes. Follow the money.