DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #14

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Ok. I am meekly going to post this as I have not been a member of WS for years. I do not have the writing ability of Emmavoberry and many on this board. I do have the ability to sleuth, great at putting myself in someone else's state of mind. I am a people person and read people well.

I have never wanted JW to be a part of this crime.! I loved this "kid". Going after his dreams!

But, I cannot ignore the inconsistencies AND the chance they may have known each other directly or indirectly. My husband and I are not rich. But to many of my kids friends we appear rich. We both work. We have a nice house, nice house, nice vehicles, kids always have the latest and greatest. But, to a person sharing a home and being raised by parents who struggle to fund their lunch account...we are rich. Our kids always have the newest gaming station, phone, etc. Clothes, shoes, etc. my husband and I sacrifice for our kids. Whether it has been a benefit to them belongs on an "entitlement" board.

But, I have had to fight with them who they bring into our home. What they publicize on SM. "Hey we are going to be out of town." And accepting friend requests from everyone just to boost your number. Yes, my kids cross paths all types in our town. But, everyone is a friend and "would never do that!!! ". Yes, they will.

It is an immature belief they have of their "friends." Even though they do not hang around with 90%, they end up friending a friend of a friend. It is frightening.

And it is not just my kids. There are many. Numbers!

Say JW needed $20,000 to fund his summer races. In his mind, if I cannot participate, my racing career is not ever going to happen. He remembers the "Wint" brothers who have extensive criminal histories. The "crazy" dudes. He needs $20m. He works out a plan for each to get $20m. He never planned or envisioned anyone being murdered. He even planned and told himself once he became famous, he would repay them $200,000!

But, it went south because of his lack of predicting, poor judgement or thinking the whole plan could go wrong. They had a violent past. He did not. He made the mistake of thinking they shared some type of morality code. He thought everyone is like him and shares the same mind set.

I hope LE announces his is totally innocent and he ends up with some type of endorsement deal. But, you do NOT lie to LE.

Just my honest humble opinion. I truly respect this board. I am not an expert but it is my gut feeling if he is named a participant. I might be naive.


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This is the last time I'll ever bring up the "close" proximity of DW and JW's dad in the apartments. To some, 348 ft seems close enough to open the door to the idea that the two men named in the charging docs might have had the opportunity to meet. To others, it is a vast enough distance in a populated, sprawling complex that there is little chance that they could have met.

This is the apt complex map that I lived in for one year. It, too, was three apts high and there were hundreds of people who lived in different buildings on different blocks. I hated it because it was so populated. Based on three people in my family living in our apartment, we had tentacles all over the different buildings in the complex as we individually met people who knew others who talked about others. Did we know of everyone? Not all all! Did we know of a lot of people? Yes. In a relatively short time period. Some of my son's friends in the complex were so far away that they'd ride their bikes because it was too far to walk.

So, it could go either way. A football field is a too far a distance, or a close enough distance, within which to meet a neighbor.

http://thecoveattiburon.com/img/contact/cove-property-map.jpg
 
kammiemc said:
So, how unusual would it be for LE to suspect someone (such as some of those picked up in the convoy with DW, or even JW) yet hold off on arresting them for weeks as they gather more hard evidence? It seems like from what people are saying that it is unheard of. One person on another forum said that, you make the arrest and build your case later. Are there any scenarios where an arrest would be strategically delayed for investigative purposes.
Click to expand...

There wouldn't, or shouldn't, be an arrest until the DA believes there is enough evidence to obtain a conviction at trial. Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking on the constitutional requirement for a speedy trial. Preliminary hearing must be held within a certain number of days, trial must start by a certain time, etc. It is wise for LE to take as long as they need to gather sufficient evidence, otherwise they risk running out of time.

And sometimes it can take years before an arrest is made. Take a peek at the McStay threads... now that there has been the preliminary hearing, it's pretty clear LE suspected the guy very early on, and it took years before they felt they had sufficient evidence for an arrest.


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TexMex said:
IMO the bulk of $40K was recovered during the arrest of Wint. Let's wait and see the final tally before blaming a guy SS trusted to deliver cash he thought would save his family. LE hasn't listed how much the "large stack of $100 bills" added up to.
Click to expand...

We can not say for sure that SS trusted JW to deliver cash he thought would save his family. Whoever was in control of SS's actions, phone calls, and his family, and VF, was in charge period. IF JW was SS's choice, he had to clear that and justify it with the controlling person/s.
We are not blaming. We are speculating. We are making conjectures. We can only pose "what ifs..." We are clear that JW is not a suspect in this crime or POI and we can not read LE's mind or know the status of the investigation at this time.
Based on news reports which cited LE as the source, only part of the 40k was recovered with Wint and convoy. True, the news reports can be wrong. And the other part could be have been stashed.

It's not an off the wall inference to draw that LE ,at the time it interviewed JW, found the photo appearing to depict only two bundles important.

JMO The more I know the less I am sure of anything. Argument, for or against, is a rhetorical strategy by which one tests one's own opinions vs. others. Argument makes no claims to objectivity. We can not convict or try anyone here.
It is also true that DW is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I believe we are "blaming" him in almost every post for a most horrific multiple murder he is yet innocent of by legal definition.
 
stmarysmead said:
Respectfully, whether SS "trusted" JW to deliver that money is something we do not know. SS may have been told, while his son, wife and housekeeper were in dire distress...to call JW and make him the delivery boy. SS was in the control of the perps...so the "selection" of JW does not designate his great trust in him at least not to this point. It's pure emotionalism to think that we know what SS felt about JW. We don't. You may be right or terribly wrong.

Just clarifying for the record. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion.
Click to expand...

True. But my theory is that SS had known JW awhile. From the autobahn. He liked/trusted him enough to hire him. He trusted him to drive him and to handle some errands and trusted him to take care of his prized cars. JMO but SS had to set up this ransom transaction. To coordinate the bank transaction and ensure delivery of the money. It was vital to him. SS naively believed this maniac would leave if he arranged to get him some cash. DW no doubt monitored the communication but I do think SS suggested that after the accountant got the money from the banker that giving it to the driver would make sense. The driver would be less likely to ask questions and to follow the instructions. Another thought is SS had probably known his accountant a long time. Perhaps he was afraid the madman was planning to take hostage or harm whoever brought over the money? Maybe he thought a 28 year old guy had a better shot fighting back if attacked than a middle aged bean counter?
JMO but there is no connection established yet (5 weeks later) btwn JW and DW...zero. Therefore there is no reason DW would "ask" that JW deliver it. It's my opinion that LE has thoroughly investigated JW bcse: he delivered the ransom and bcse his story changed. The fact is that after five weeks of investigation of JW LE has not charged him with anything and not named him as anything other than a WITNESS
 
Carolyn1963 said:
Ok. I am meekly going to post this as I have not been a member of WS for years. I do not have the writing ability of Emmavoberry and many on this board. I do have the ability to sleuth, great at putting myself in someone else's state of mind. I am a people person and read people well.

I have never wanted JW to be a part of this crime.! I loved this "kid". Going after his dreams!

But, I cannot ignore the inconsistencies AND the chance they may have known each other directly or indirectly. My husband and I are not rich. But to many of my kids friends we appear rich. We both work. We have a nice house, nice house, nice vehicles, kids always have the latest and greatest. But, to a person sharing a home and being raised by parents who struggle to fund their lunch account...we are rich. Our kids always have the newest gaming station, phone, etc. Clothes, shoes, etc. my husband and I sacrifice for our kids. Whether it has been a benefit to them belongs on an "entitlement" board.

But, I have had to fight with them who they bring into our home. What they publicize on SM. "Hey we are going to be out of town." And accepting friend requests from everyone just to boost your number. Yes, my kids cross paths all types in our town. But, everyone is a friend and "would never do that!!! ". Yes, they will.

It is an immature belief they have of their "friends." Even though they do not hang around with 90%, they end up friending a friend of a friend. It is frightening.

And it is not just my kids. There are many. Numbers!

Say JW needed $20,000 to fund his summer races. In his mind, if I cannot participate, my racing career is not ever going to happen. He remembers the "Wint" brothers who have extensive criminal histories. The "crazy" dudes. He needs $20m. He works out a plan for each to get $20m. He never planned or envisioned anyone being murdered. He even planned and told himself once he became famous, he would repay them $200,000!

But, it went south because of his lack of predicting, poor judgement or thinking the whole plan could go wrong. They had a violent past. He did not. He made the mistake of thinking they shared some type of morality code. He thought everyone is like him and shares the same mind set.

I hope LE announces his is totally innocent and he ends up with some type of endorsement deal. But, you do NOT lie to LE.

Just my honest humble opinion. I truly respect this board. I am not an expert but it is my gut feeling if he is named a participant. I might be naive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This is really well thought out, and well written! It's how I feel, too, though I realize why it is not necessarily a popular opinion/hunch/spec/etc., and I respect that others feel differently. But I just can't get over some really blatant things--namely the lies to LE, inconsistencies and the string of bizarre coincidences. To me, he seems central to the crime, not necessarily the mastermind, but maybe. I would put my money on it. (Not that I have extra money, but like you, some of my kid's friends think we're rich because of his room. Ha!)
 
Carolyn1963 said:
Ok. I am meekly going to post this as I have not been a member of WS for years. I do not have the writing ability of Emmavoberry and many on this board. I do have the ability to sleuth, great at putting myself in someone else's state of mind. I am a people person and read people well.

I have never wanted JW to be a part of this crime.! I loved this "kid". Going after his dreams!

But, I cannot ignore the inconsistencies AND the chance they may have known each other directly or indirectly. My husband and I are not rich. But to many of my kids friends we appear rich. We both work. We have a nice house, nice house, nice vehicles, kids always have the latest and greatest. But, to a person sharing a home and being raised by parents who struggle to fund their lunch account...we are rich. Our kids always have the newest gaming station, phone, etc. Clothes, shoes, etc. my husband and I sacrifice for our kids. Whether it has been a benefit to them belongs on an "entitlement" board.

But, I have had to fight with them who they bring into our home. What they publicize on SM. "Hey we are going to be out of town." And accepting friend requests from everyone just to boost your number. Yes, my kids cross paths all types in our town. But, everyone is a friend and "would never do that!!! ". Yes, they will.

It is an immature belief they have of their "friends." Even though they do not hang around with 90%, they end up friending a friend of a friend. It is frightening.

And it is not just my kids. There are many. Numbers!

Say JW needed $20,000 to fund his summer races. In his mind, if I cannot participate, my racing career is not ever going to happen. He remembers the "Wint" brothers who have extensive criminal histories. The "crazy" dudes. He needs $20m. He works out a plan for each to get $20m. He never planned or envisioned anyone being murdered. He even planned and told himself once he became famous, he would repay them $200,000!

But, it went south because of his lack of predicting, poor judgement or thinking the whole plan could go wrong. They had a violent past. He did not. He made the mistake of thinking they shared some type of morality code. He thought everyone is like him and shares the same mind set.

I hope LE announces his is totally innocent and he ends up with some type of endorsement deal. But, you do NOT lie to LE.

Just my honest humble opinion. I truly respect this board. I am not an expert but it is my gut feeling if he is named a participant. I might be naive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thank you for a terrific post! This is pretty much along the lines of my current "opinion."
I'm intrigued by the quote from DW's lawyer today. Is he too insinuating that things got out of control?

I think JW might be cooperating and DW also giving up his "associates." It may turn out that killing was not on the original plan. I'm assuming these guys could get a gun if they wanted one. I think it was to be knives and intimidation.
But when things went sour, and maybe a certain key person in the operation was "identified" by SS...desperate measures by desperate, frightened, inexperienced perps were put in place. That may be Phillip's bat. The overkill might be because of a lack of "experience"...doing killings that were not in the original plan.

Burning the house and the car...more panic.

One reason I suspect JW is the feeling that the brains of the operation wasn't on scene to control the people inside. "Mistakes were made" and they led, IMO, to an unplanned tragic outcome.
 
Witness 1 or W1 to be specific!! Just meant for fun Tex!! Lol
This thread is very heated compared to others I visit- just trying to lighten the mood, take it for what it's worth. Believe me I cannot wait for justice in this case!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Carolyn1963 said:
Ok. I am meekly going to post this as I have not been a member of WS for years. I do not have the writing ability of Emmavoberry and many on this board. I do have the ability to sleuth, great at putting myself in someone else's state of mind. I am a people person and read people well.

I have never wanted JW to be a part of this crime.! I loved this "kid". Going after his dreams!

But, I cannot ignore the inconsistencies AND the chance they may have known each other directly or indirectly. My husband and I are not rich. But to many of my kids friends we appear rich. We both work. We have a nice house, nice house, nice vehicles, kids always have the latest and greatest. But, to a person sharing a home and being raised by parents who struggle to fund their lunch account...we are rich. Our kids always have the newest gaming station, phone, etc. Clothes, shoes, etc. my husband and I sacrifice for our kids. Whether it has been a benefit to them belongs on an "entitlement" board.

But, I have had to fight with them who they bring into our home. What they publicize on SM. "Hey we are going to be out of town." And accepting friend requests from everyone just to boost your number. Yes, my kids cross paths all types in our town. But, everyone is a friend and "would never do that!!! ". Yes, they will.

It is an immature belief they have of their "friends." Even though they do not hang around with 90%, they end up friending a friend of a friend. It is frightening.

And it is not just my kids. There are many. Numbers!

Say JW needed $20,000 to fund his summer races. In his mind, if I cannot participate, my racing career is not ever going to happen. He remembers the "Wint" brothers who have extensive criminal histories. The "crazy" dudes. He needs $20m. He works out a plan for each to get $20m. He never planned or envisioned anyone being murdered. He even planned and told himself once he became famous, he would repay them $200,000!

But, it went south because of his lack of predicting, poor judgement or thinking the whole plan could go wrong. They had a violent past. He did not. He made the mistake of thinking they shared some type of morality code. He thought everyone is like him and shares the same mind set.

I hope LE announces his is totally innocent and he ends up with some type of endorsement deal. But, you do NOT lie to LE.

Just my honest humble opinion. I truly respect this board. I am not an expert but it is my gut feeling if he is named a participant. I might be naive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Excellent post Carolyn1963, really well said! Thank you for this. :blowkiss:
 
observation said:
Witness 1 or W1 to be specific!! Just meant for fun Tex!! Lol
This thread is very heated compared to others I visit- just trying to lighten the mood, take it for what it's worth. Believe me I cannot wait for justice in this case!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My mood is getting lighter already!

image.jpg
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
There wouldn't, or shouldn't, be an arrest until the DA believes there is enough evidence to obtain a conviction at trial. Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking on the constitutional requirement for a speedy trial. Preliminary hearing must be held within a certain number of days, trial must start by a certain time, etc. It is wise for LE to take as long as they need to gather sufficient evidence, otherwise they risk running out of time.

And sometimes it can take years before an arrest is made. Take a peek at the McStay threads... now that there has been the preliminary hearing, it's pretty clear LE suspected the guy very early on, and it took years before they felt they had sufficient evidence for an arrest.


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Click to expand...
I was just getting ready to make a post expressing these thoughts. It's all about the clock. If you don't have an ironclad case you wait until you have it.
 
RE: CAROLYN1963 POST (SORRY DIDN'T DO THE QUOTE)

EmmaVoberry has loose syntax, awkward and over-wraught phraseology, and an incapacity to write with economy.
You write well, lay out your reasoning with clarity and balance. An excellent piece.
You pin-point exactly what I think bothers all of us about JW's credibility and leads us to consider he may have initiated a crime that spun entirely out of his control.
I don't say a harmless one, but as you explain so well, making it make sense, he might have rationalized--and to his employer what would 40 K mean? You make us see that while we think JW would have to have been amoral, lacking in empathy, hardened in some fundamental way to be involved, he may have viewed this as the underpaid college kid does who snatches twenty dollars from the till of the pizza parlor to take his infatuation on a date that weekend, fully meaning to return it on Monday out of his wages.

Thanks for a post that makes me think.
In the end, although our kids may appear nonchalant in their friendships and without the self-protective armor we wish would keep them SAFE forever, our will to protect them has a way of doing just that; our caring becomes a self-care they are not even aware of. JMO
 
I also do not know most of my neighbors. I have not since I was a kid in a different time and place. My husband and I both work and in survival mode while trying to raise entitled kids who have been given a lot because we were from working class backgrounds and did not want our kids to "suffer". Again, diff board as I applaud stay at home parents.

My kids know every kid. From the top to the bottom. They have all this free time because they never have suffered. They are spoiled. I have seen kids on the mugshots list in my town. It is different than when some of us were kids. The jock, academic, slouchers, pot head borders have slurred over the years. Our kids face so much pressure from SM. Some of us were in groups.

Sad state of affairs. Bottom line if anyone young follows this board. Do not break the law. It is really that simple to me. Do not harm, do not steal. Trust your parents and teachers. Be honest with LE and hire an attorney before you open your mouth. Again, naive.




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More food for thought. NOTHING has been disclosed about what, if anything, was stolen from the house. We know about the fleet of high-end cars owned by the S family. Presumably they are all accounted for. But nothing said about theft of jewelry and art work. It was reported somewhere that the family opened the house for semi-private tours to view the art collection. Perhaps this is why Mr. S had the huge safe installed in the garage- a place to keep the art collection secure while the family vacationed. IF substantial theft occurred that night, perhaps LE is hoping to be able to track down the whereabouts of theses items by allowing some of the key players to roam loose.
 
CoreyRocks said:
I hope this doesn't sound silly, but I wonder how 40K can fit in anyone's pockets. I have trouble keeping a few singles in my pocket without falling out. Seems like 4 bundles would not fit due to bulk.
Click to expand...

It's really not that big. My husband can fit it in his cargo shorts, no problem. It's smaller than a carton of cigarettes.
 
James Bond said:
More food for thought. NOTHING has been disclosed about what, if anything, was stolen from the house. We know about the fleet of high-end cars owned by the S family. Presumably they are all accounted for. But nothing said about theft of jewelry and art work. It was reported somewhere that the family opened the house for semi-private tours to view the art collection. Perhaps this is why Mr. S had the huge safe installed in the garage- a place to keep the art collection secure while the family vacationed. IF substantial theft occurred that night, perhaps LE is hoping to be able to track down the whereabouts of theses items by allowing some of the key players to roam loose.
Click to expand...

Interesting...I do recall after LE released the crime scene back to the family there were reports of a truck from an art restoration company loading up some of the artwork.
 
rkf said:
Fair point. He got to attach his name to the information without providing the same courtesy to the people who uncovered the info (in PEOPLE or in his blog). Guess it's embarrassing for an investigative journalist to say he gets his information from an amateur sleuth forum...
Click to expand...
Fine if he wanted to credit WSers and publicize their fine work in his use of it, but I think he plain out committed an act of intellectual theft, in ethical terms--I know what he did is not illegal as WSers hold no copyright and that is not the grievance.
Has anyone put the record straight on his blog or contacted him? Can we? Should we?
Can we write to or comment at People.com?
Just the record straight. No need for remonstrance.
 
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