DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #15

[BondGirl]

He attacked a man and stabbed him repeatedly with a knife. That came pretty close to murder. And he bragged to his girlfriend that he was good with knives and would kill her baby if he wanted to. Sounds like a hardened criminal to me. The only reason he hadnt spent a decade in jail is because our court system sucks.

There are thousands like him. It's why he wasn't in jail.

 

[MyBelle]

But search warrants CAN be introduced as evidence. They are JUDICIAL DOCUMENTS, based on sworn testimony from the detectives. So yes, they can be used by the defense in the trial if need be. If a detective lied in obtaining a warrant it could be used against him in court.

Search warrants are legal documents to prove evidence seized was done so in a legal search. If Wint's defense wants to focus on the search warrants and claim they are invalid, he really should go for it and see how far it gets him.

JMO

 

[kammiemc]

Ok. So does that mean you will admit that the detectives BELIEVE that JW dropped off 40k at the garage? :wink:

To make it a fair question, the only thing that was an objective statement about that (meaning, not attributed to "JW stated" was that they believed everyone got killed after the $40k was delivered to the "house." I am still guessing that they thought the car situation was pretty iffy. But, honest question, how would LE know without looking in the envelope how much cash was in there besides the info from the accountant (and bank) that that's how much JW left with. They couldn't have asked DW at that point. They only saw $20k in the red bag in the pic. And were still suspicious enough to be searching for some or all of the money in JW's car. Which makes me think they didn't take JW's account as 100% fact. I am trying to figure out ways that they might have been able to corroborate that all $40k made it there at that point. :thinking:

 

[MyBelle]

I am surprised in general at the amount of talking time SS got. He could have easily laid it all on the line and yelled "help, call 911". We know why he did not. He was with a madman who would kill his family instantly. But DW couldn't be 100% sure that SS wouldn't try that, or that he might try to send hints that something was wrong. (Which SS did try to do!l)

I guess that DW thought that calls would be the fastest way to communicate with another person. (True.) That DW let SS call NG, call VF's husband and talk to his sister on the phone would have been pretty risky for the perps. Seems sort of dumb on their part. Though unfortunately, it did not backfire for them.

Hey, has anyone ever heard anymore about the calls made Weds night revolving around trying to get money wired from SS's and AS's accounts? I believe I heard it was reported by a DC news station, but that info kind of went into the ether. But it would make sense that DW and Co were trying to get more money and settled, unhappily settled, for what the acct would get from the bank the next AM.

The problem I see with the calls made to NG is that they were allowed at all. She wasn't supposed to work and if she did show up, why would Wint care? Vera's husband showed up and they didn't answer the door.

How did Wint know NG was the housekeeper? How did he know she would NOT listen to the calls nor pick up on the hints? Yet he allowed not one but two phone calls to her. I find it suspicious and contrived.

JMO

 

[kammiemc]

He attacked a man and stabbed him repeatedly with a knife. That came pretty close to murder. And he bragged to his girlfriend that he was good with knives and would kill her baby if he wanted to. Sounds like a hardened criminal to me. The only reason he hadnt spent a decade in jail is because our court system sucks.

He also said he wasn't afraid of the police. That's the scariest thing for me in terms of the lack of leverage SS had with him. This was a guy who operated on the fact that he nothing to lose, didn't seem to care if he got caught, had no value for human life, even perhaps his own and liked hurting people. I don't know how you get much harder than that.

 

[BondGirl]

The problem I see with the calls made to NG is that they were allowed at all. She wasn't supposed to work and if she did show up, why would Wint care? Vera's husband showed up and they didn't answer the door.

How did Wint know NG was the housekeeper? How did he know she would NOT listen to the calls nor pick up on the hints? Yet he allowed not one but two phone calls to her. I find it suspicious and contrived.

JMO

I agree!

 

[kammiemc]

The problem I see with the calls made to NG is that they were allowed at all. She wasn't supposed to work and if she did show up, why would Wint care? Vera's husband showed up and they didn't answer the door.

How did Wint know NG was the housekeeper? How did he know she would NOT listen to the calls nor pick up on the hints? Yet he allowed not one but two phone calls to her. I find it suspicious and contrived.

JMO

IDK! DW could have had insider info about the housekeepers, even if that insider didn't have specific details about the logistics of that particular week. Or, SS could have made it seem like a big deal that he needed to reach NG or her crew would show up before he could get the money, and was able to talk DW into letting him make that call. (I would think SS could manipulate DW to some extent.)

DW DID worry when VF's husband came around and had SS call him. DW might have believed he had killed two birds with one stone by letting SS call NG and tell her not to come in and also to ask her to let VF's husband know she was okay. (But NG didn't call VF's husband.)

 

[katydid23]

So far the only trace evidence we know about is the pizza crust. If this remains the case it is fair to assume that perhaps DW was not the last one to leave the house. Maybe someone else was tasked with final cleanup? It also means that this was a very methodical crime. DW graduated from traffic violations beating up girls, and attacking someone with a knife to this crime??
I believe this crime was planned and perpetrated by someone with knowledge of sophisticated criminal craft. Where could DW have learned such things?

from PRISON maybe?

 

[Bootsctr]

Frankly, I don't know why either AS or SS was even allowed to contact NG for any reason. I find that in itself to be suspicious.

JMO

I believe, NG was meant to hear little Philip's scream in the background when Savvas called her because she knew exactly what that scream meant - STAY AWAY FROM THE HOUSE OR YOU'RE NEXT!

I think this woman blabbed about the money and somehow that information reached Wint's ears. He jumped the gun and got to the house too soon. He wanted to make sure he was the one who got to the $40,000 first, numero uno. When the money wasn't there and there wasn't enough cash in the safe to satisfy this greedy pig he decided to pull an all nighter with the family. In the end he killed them because Savvas could identify him, the housekeeper could identify him and because in his reality it was all Savopoulos' fault that his life was CRAP! And he took great pleasure in torturing all of them AND torching the home and Amy's Porsche.

 

[katydid23]

There are thousands like him. It's why he wasn't in jail.

True. But that doesnt make him any less violent and any less a hardened criminal. I cannot imagine that any one who could torture a child and set him on fire would not be considered 'hardened.'

 

[MyBelle]

IDK! DW could have had insider info about the housekeepers, even if that insider didn't have specific details about the logistics of that particular week. Or, SS could have made it seem like a big deal that he needed to reach NG or her crew would show up before he could get the money, and was able to talk DW into letting him make that call. (I would think SS could manipulate DW to some extent.)

DW DID worry when VF's husband came around and had SS call him. DW might have believed he had killed two birds with one stone by letting SS call NG and tell her not to come in and also to ask her to let VF's husband know she was okay. (But NG didn't call VF's husband.)

Vera was right there. How would Wint even know about NG or care one whit whether she showed up or not? SS phoned Vera's husband but the night before he asked NG to do it and she claimed to not have listened to his message.

I think whatever "inside" information Wint had may have come from NG. I find it interesting that LE haven't charged or arrested the people with Wint yet a source has said LE continues to be interested in the two women with him. I believe all of this is linked.

JMO

 

[rkf]

I can't. Really??? [emoji30] do you know where the carotid artery is? Did you see the scar on DW's victims neck? Looking at basic statistics, there are more murders by knives than guns.


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Link please? For the more murders by knife than firearm.

 

[facundo]

How about not leaving any evidence behind beside the pizza crust? Not being seen or heard coming or going and controlling that house? Skirting the alarm and cameras that SS had? Their are tricks to every trade.
Have you learned or mastered any trade, craft or art before?

The problem I see with the calls made to NG is that they were allowed at all. She wasn't supposed to work and if she did show up, why would Wint care? Vera's husband showed up and they didn't answer the door.

How did Wint know NG was the housekeeper? How did he know she would NOT listen to the calls nor pick up on the hints? Yet he allowed not one but two phone calls to her. I find it suspicious and contrived.

JMO

IMO DW was worried about who might call or who might show up at the house while he was holding them hostage. He could coerce SS and AS to make voice calls easily with a knife held closely to Philip and tell them don't dare say anything out of the ordinary or you will see more blood. In this case it wasn't whether they were "allowed" to make calls, they were forced to make those calls. He didn't have to know who NG was. This may have been a Savopoulos ruse to try and get an inane message to NG when it was clear she was not supposed to come to the house anyway, hoping she might suspect something was amiss. Unfortunately she thought the messages were goofy but didn't understand this contradiction to be a serious alert.

 

[Bootsctr]

While I feel very confident JW is innocent in this, I have wondered......if JW weren't in the picture and hadn't been hired yet......who would SS have called to deliver that money.


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NG, or the accountant, the employee, would have delivered it personally. Interesting question!

 

[kammiemc]

If we (the royal we) know that someone's child being tortured is better leverage than torturing a grown man himself, it's reasonable to conclude DW knew that, too.

Just curious as to why you assume he couldn't have thought of any of this on his own?

I haven't been mentored in crime, I don't have any relatives or friends who are criminals, I haven't taken any courses in criminal mentality or psychology, forensics, law enforcement or crime scene cleanup and yet I can figure out how to do lots of things without help. And yes, I have learned a lot from watching TV, movies, news reports, interviews, reading books and articles. If I can learn what to do while committing a crime, DW can, too. Perhaps you qualify for Mensa; I don't but I'm at least intelligent enough to know fact from fiction when I watch TV, belch and scratch my belly... nyuk nyuk nyuk.

It has been reported he wore gloves. Lots of burglars wear gloves. He used items at hand to bind and kill his victims. He didn't bring a murder kit that we know of.

I doubt LE underestimates any criminal's intelligence, that would be a mistake. LOL, autocorrect keeps trying to tell me it's incorrect to write "criminal's intelligence"!

I'm not alone in my opinion that this was only meant to be a daytime burglary of an empty home and it turned into an unplanned and sloppy kidnapping, torture and murder.

I'm not sure what to make of "someone in the truck" giving instructions and cash for laundering to those women. A partner in crime for the planning but who wasn't at the murder scene possibly? I don't know. Maybe he was the brains, maybe he was half the brains. Phone records will show a lot.

Anything is possible, but I keep on trying to figure out how I could confidently assume, based on what we know, that DW worked alone in that house. (Besides the absence of more arrests.) We know that LE seems to have evidence that made them feel confident that that crime required others' involvement. And there were multiple vests, the two pizzas, and the well-groomed person driving the porsche. And he obviously did work with others after the fact. So he wasn't a lone stallion. Can it be said with certainty that he didn't also work with others beforehand and/or during the crime. Is there a reason that he wouldn't have tried to tap into his heinous network to get some help in the crime? Even just to help carry things or be on lookout?

 

[kammiemc]

NG, or the accountant, the employee, would have delivered it personally. Interesting question!

There are also probably other assistants in the company, as well as couriers that the company uses. However, with those people, the accountant would have made sure they knew where the money was going and would have been alerted if the plans changed to drop the $40k in a car 10 mins before drop off. A courier would lose his/her job for that. The person dropping off the money would have to know not to arouse suspicion in the accountant or anyone else and not to question the odd instructions. That's why I am suspicious of JW knowing more than nothing about "something" going on.

 

[katydid23]

Search warrants are legal documents to prove evidence seized was done so in a legal search. If Wint's defense wants to focus on the search warrants and claim they are invalid, he really should go for it and see how far it gets him.

JMO

Let's retrace why we are even discussing the search warrants. Originally the SWs were only brought up in conversation because some were saying that LE did not believe that JW ever dropped off that ransom money. So some replied that the SW says that LE does believe that. And the response was that it did not matter what the SW said because it was not used for anything other than to show cause for a search. MY response was that it is also a formal judicial document that must be testified to under oath. So an officer is not going to do so unless he feels it is the truth. So it is not really about Wint's defense attorney, imo. It is more about evidence as to what the detectives believe happened. JMO

 

[kammiemc]

Vera was right there. How would Wint even know about NG or care one whit whether she showed up or not? SS phoned Vera's husband but the night before he asked NG to do it and she claimed to not have listened to his message.

I think whatever "inside" information Wint had may have come from NG. I find it interesting that LE haven't charged or arrested the people with Wint yet a source has said LE continues to be interested in the two women with him. I believe all of this is linked.

JMO

Anything is possible. My mouth wouldn't drop to the floor if I found out at some point that NG was involved in giving someone info, knowingly or unknowingly. I just don't really have a big feeling about it.
My guess is that SS convinced DW to let him call NG, saying, for instance, that she would be arriving at the same time as the money and she might freak out the money deliverer that something was up and he might leave. He was trying ANYTHING.

 

[Bootsctr]

To make it a fair question, the only thing that was an objective statement about that (meaning, not attributed to "JW stated" was that they believed everyone got killed after the $40k was delivered to the "house." I am still guessing that they thought the car situation was pretty iffy. But, honest question, how would LE know without looking in the envelope how much cash was in there besides the info from the accountant (and bank) that that's how much JW left with. They couldn't have asked DW at that point. They only saw $20k in the red bag in the pic. And were still suspicious enough to be searching for some or all of the money in JW's car. Which makes me think they didn't take JW's account as 100% fact. I am trying to figure out ways that they might have been able to corroborate that all $40k made it there at that point. :thinking:

NG confirmed it...:

The Savopoulos' housekeeper, Nelitza Gutierrez, told FOX 5's Paul Wagner that this employee told her that he dropped off the cash on Thursday morning. Sources say he picked up the cash earlier that morning from the American Iron Works company owned by Savopoulos.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/29129466/savopoulos-assistant

But, denies it here:

Gutierrez said that she knew nothing about the money that was dropped off May 14 and that she had never seen the assistant or anyone else drop off cash to the Savopoulos home in the 20 years she had worked there.

On May 15, the day after the killings, the personal assistant called the veteran American Iron Works employee’s cellphone “and was crying,” according to the police documents. The assistant “stated that he had dropped off a package” at the Savopoulos house on May 14, on his way to Chantilly, the documents say.

 

[kammiemc]

Vera was right there. How would Wint even know about NG or care one whit whether she showed up or not? SS phoned Vera's husband but the night before he asked NG to do it and she claimed to not have listened to his message.

I think whatever "inside" information Wint had may have come from NG. I find it interesting that LE haven't charged or arrested the people with Wint yet a source has said LE continues to be interested in the two women with him. I believe all of this is linked.

JMO

Vera might have been unconscious and unable to speak. OR, surely, she spoke to her husband in Spanish. Maybe DW was worried that he couldn't monitor what she'd say. Maybe no one could figure out how to text in Spanish, or her husband doesn't even do texts. This might be seen as an opportunity by SS to request to contact VF's friend and employer (NG) to appease her husband that all was well. Or maybe DW demanded that the call be made because he didn't want people snooping around the property. The call, in itself, is not IMO incriminating of NG at all.