DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #16

[SpanishInquisition]

Not all bank robberies involve murder so I'm not sure of your point. How is just a getaway driver charged if they don't have other perps in custody?

The getaway driver is the classic example for felony murder where how someone who wasn't even in the bank can be charged for a death that occurred inside the bank. The death doesn't even have to be intentional as someone could have died of a heart attack from fright and you'd still get felony murder for all those involved in the bank robbery. Everyone involved is responsible and no package deals are required to convict someone of felony murder.

I'm pretty sure a getaway driver is only charged with being part of the crimes actually committed. So far, Wint and only Wint has been charged.

Yes, the qualifying felony is the bank robbery and the death is what gets you to felony murder.

http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/murder-during-the-commission-of-a-felony.html

 

[MyBelle]

Wint's charging docs say he struck and stabbed SS with an unknown object. I think they have evidence of such. jmo

They did recover a ball bat. Whether there is evidence that links it to Wint is unknown.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The getaway driver is the classic example for felony murder where how someone who wasn't even in the bank can be charged for a death that occurred inside the bank. The death doesn't even have to be intentional as someone could have died of a heart attack from fright and you'd still get felony murder for all those involved in the bank robbery. Everyone involved is responsible and no package deals are required to convict someone of felony murder.



Yes, the qualifying felony is the bank robbery and the death is what gets you to felony murder.

http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/murder-during-the-commission-of-a-felony.html

I agree to disagree and will move on...

 

[Skigirl]

Some of us are interested in JW's post-high school, pre-Savopoulos life, so I'm going to note a few things that might help with putting together a timeline. Hard to know what's true, most of this is taken from articles in which JW supplied the information. Some/most of this information has been found previously by others, but I'm putting it in one place.

2005 Graduates from Annapolis High School (multiple articles site his graduation in 2005, but there is very little about his high school years online, despite claims he played sports - football?) http://annapolishighschool.net/annapolis-md/

2009-2013 Cart racing in Virginia and West Virginia, "been racing for about four years...outside of the beltline" http://www.bizmonthly.com/autobahn-speedway-puts-locals-on-the-fast-track/

2013 Hired by Autobahn; role described as Competition Director, "will represent Autobahn at his own races across the country: http://www.bizmonthly.com/autobahn-speedway-puts-locals-on-the-fast-track/

Other claims:
* Feb 2015: "This has been one of my dreams since I was in high school," Wallace said. "I've raced all over the country. I've been racing for about 10 years, and I've never seen anything like this." http://www.pressboxonline.com/2015/02/12/karting-a-new-alternative-for-high-school-students

* March 2014: Concussion forced Wallace to switch from football to racing; there was a second Autobahn planned for Jackson, FL. http://www.capitalgazette.com/cg2-arc-140321gn-connections--autobahn-20140329-story.html

* March 16, 2014: Event organized at Autobahn: "...Jordan Wallace, Autobahn competition director and Race Car Driver. Jordan has 8 years of racing experience consisting of Karts, Legend cars, and Skip Barber race series. His experience and expertise in car control and race craft can help any racer improve their skills" (BBM) http://www.eventbrite.com/e/march16...rt-and-racing-instruction-tickets-16128937085

* October, 2014: Newsletter about Skip Barber Racing School cites JW as age 25 http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/item/110439-insight-the-skip-barber-karts-to-cars-scholarship

I have not been able to find any racing results for Wallace in the 2005-2013 timeframe, nor news stories about football in 2001-2005 at Annapolis High.

 

[MyBelle]

That is a good way to state it! Anyway, I don't even think this is up for speculation as the law is the law!


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Those pesky due process clauses of the 5th and 14th Amendments aren't really up for debate. Wint is entitled to the presumption of innocence and prosecutors are going to have to prove elements of the crime beyond just DNA on a pizza. That's the way our system works.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Some of us are interested in JW's post-high school, pre-Savopoulos life, so I'm going to note a few things that might help with putting together a timeline. Hard to know what's true, most of this is taken from articles in which JW supplied the information. Some/most of this information has been found previously by others, but I'm putting it in one place.

2005 Graduates from Annapolis High School (multiple articles site his graduation in 2005, but there is very little about his high school years online, despite claims he played sports - football?) http://annapolishighschool.net/annapolis-md/

2009-2013 Cart racing in Virginia and West Virginia, "been racing for about four years...outside of the beltline" http://www.bizmonthly.com/autobahn-speedway-puts-locals-on-the-fast-track/

2013 Hired by Autobahn; role described as Competition Director, "will represent Autobahn at his own races across the country: http://www.bizmonthly.com/autobahn-speedway-puts-locals-on-the-fast-track/

Other claims:
* Feb 2015: "This has been one of my dreams since I was in high school," Wallace said. "I've raced all over the country. I've been racing for about 10 years, and I've never seen anything like this." http://www.pressboxonline.com/2015/02/12/karting-a-new-alternative-for-high-school-students

* March 2014: Concussion forced Wallace to switch from football to racing; there was a second Autobahn planned for Jackson, FL. http://www.capitalgazette.com/cg2-arc-140321gn-connections--autobahn-20140329-story.html

* March 16, 2014: Event organized at Autobahn: "...Jordan Wallace, Autobahn competition director and Race Car Driver. Jordan has 8 years of racing experience consisting of Karts, Legend cars, and Skip Barber race series. His experience and expertise in car control and race craft can help any racer improve their skills" (BBM) http://www.eventbrite.com/e/march16...rt-and-racing-instruction-tickets-16128937085

* October, 2014: Newsletter about Skip Barber Racing School cites JW as age 25 http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/item/110439-insight-the-skip-barber-karts-to-cars-scholarship

I have not been able to find any racing results for Wallace in the 2005-2013 timeframe, nor news stories about football in 2001-2005 at Annapolis High.

Thanks!

 

[yepitsme]

Wint is charged only with murder. This case is far from the slam dunk some think it to be.

It must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed all four. I'm pretty sure the jury expects evidence he is the one who swung the bat, held the knife, etc.

JMO

No, I'm pretty sure the charge is felony murder. The jury won't "expect" anything, it will be instructed by the judge on the applicable law. It is absolutely not a defense to say someone else had the bat.

 

[yepitsme]

Not all bank robberies involve murder so I'm not sure of your point. How is just a getaway driver charged if they don't have other perps in custody?

I'm pretty sure a getaway driver is only charged with being part of the crimes actually committed. So far, Wint and only Wint has been charged.

JMO

If you are part of a group that plans and executes a crime, your particular role doesn't matter as long as you did something to further the plans.

 

[yepitsme]

It is my opinion that they do have to prove it beyond just placing him in the house. I'll agree to disagree and move on.

JMO

if he didn't belong in the house, in other words if he broke in, thats a felony and he's guilty of felony murder if they prove the felony. Its not a matter of opinion, thats the law.

 

[yepitsme]

You do not have to wield the bat. You just have to be a part of the plans to be convicted. If you tie someone up and someone else in your group kills them, thats murder. If you break and do the stealing while someone else does the killing, thats still murder. In this case it will be even easier to make that link because they were in the house for so long, because they were threatened in exchange for money.

This isn't a violation of the due process clause. This is the current state of the law.

And we know they have more evidence than the DNA on the pizza. they have blood on the shoes, the money, and thats what we know about.

 

[katydid23]

Those pesky due process clauses of the 5th and 14th Amendments aren't really up for debate. Wint is entitled to the presumption of innocence and prosecutors are going to have to prove elements of the crime beyond just DNA on a pizza. That's the way our system works.

JMO

There already is more than DNA on the pizza. There was his DNA in other areas of the crime scene. There was blood from the murder scene found on his shoes. And he had many hundred dollar bills on him when he was arrested, which were consistent with the denomination of the ransom money. And he took a very expensive cab ride from DC to NYC on the night of the murders. And when he saw himself on the news, he told his gf and his family that he was turning himself in. And apparently he told his ex-attorney that he was there but he was not the only one there.

 

[rkf]

And this this probably really old news about the machete/be gun but the words "domestic violence" and "hate crime" appear on this LE statement of probable cause ..tweeted by Marina Marraco in May...

https://mobile.twitter.com/marinamarraco/status/601571025340518400

Marina Marraco
Marina Marraco – ‏@MarinaMarraco

Court records show Darin Wint was arrested in 2010 for carrying a machete & bb gun outside Savopolous' business, AIW
Embedded image
7:11 PM - 21 May 2015

This is really irresponsible reporting. DW was outside AIW as much as he was outside 5 Star Auto, Progressive Water Solutions, People's Supply and Public Storage, amongst others. I wish they would report the news instead of spinning it and give us credit for being smart enough to draw our own connections/conclusions.

 

[rkf]

And this this probably really old news about the machete/be gun but the words "domestic violence" and "hate crime" appear on this LE statement of probable cause ..tweeted by Marina Marraco in May...

https://mobile.twitter.com/marinamarraco/status/601571025340518400

Marina Marraco
Marina Marraco – ‏@MarinaMarraco

Court records show Darin Wint was arrested in 2010 for carrying a machete & bb gun outside Savopolous' business, AIW
Embedded image
7:11 PM - 21 May 2015

Do "HATE CRIME" and "DOMESTIC VIOLENCE" refer to previous arrests? If so, what was the hate crime? If it refers to this arrest, I don't see where the hate crime plays in. Domestic violence wouldn't refer to a former employer, would it? Those sound like motives, so I wonder how LE came up with those. They don't seem to gel with the written report.

 

[rkf]

Wint is charged only with murder. This case is far from the slam dunk some think it to be.

It must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed all four. I'm pretty sure the jury expects evidence he is the one who swung the bat, held the knife, etc.

JMO

DW is charged with First Degree Felony Murder. https://www.scribd.com/doc/266278174/Daron-Dylon-Wint-Charging-Documents In order to be found guilty, he only has to be found to have participated in one of the felonies attached to the murder(s).

If no one else is arrested, I'm pretty sure he will be charged with the remaining murders, arson, extortion, etc. If he was found to be there during the time of the murders, and evidence implicating others is NOT found, I am curious how the defense will create reasonable doubt. His DNA is on the pizza and other places in the house - likely on at least one victim. Victim(s) blood is on his shoes. He's found with cash that will hopefully match with the money dispensed by Bank of America. Pretty sure they have been able to track the cash from DW's hands to the people in the convoy, even if the witnesses aren't the most reliable. I don't think it must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed all four. The combination of crimes (once charged - to him and/or others) makes each felony murder. If he was standing beside one of the victims while someone else murdered him/her (getting blood on his shoes), he is still guilty - unless there is a fourth chair where he was duct-taped next to the other victims.

I'm curious what you think DW's defense will be. I may be over-confident of his "convictability".

 

[BondGirl]

Some of us are interested in JW's post-high school, pre-Savopoulos life, so I'm going to note a few things that might help with putting together a timeline. Hard to know what's true, most of this is taken from articles in which JW supplied the information. Some/most of this information has been found previously by others, but I'm putting it in one place.

2005 Graduates from Annapolis High School (multiple articles site his graduation in 2005, but there is very little about his high school years online, despite claims he played sports - football?) http://annapolishighschool.net/annapolis-md/

2009-2013 Cart racing in Virginia and West Virginia, "been racing for about four years...outside of the beltline" http://www.bizmonthly.com/autobahn-speedway-puts-locals-on-the-fast-track/

2013 Hired by Autobahn; role described as Competition Director, "will represent Autobahn at his own races across the country: http://www.bizmonthly.com/autobahn-speedway-puts-locals-on-the-fast-track/

Other claims:
* Feb 2015: "This has been one of my dreams since I was in high school," Wallace said. "I've raced all over the country. I've been racing for about 10 years, and I've never seen anything like this." http://www.pressboxonline.com/2015/02/12/karting-a-new-alternative-for-high-school-students

* March 2014: Concussion forced Wallace to switch from football to racing; there was a second Autobahn planned for Jackson, FL. http://www.capitalgazette.com/cg2-arc-140321gn-connections--autobahn-20140329-story.html

* March 16, 2014: Event organized at Autobahn: "...Jordan Wallace, Autobahn competition director and Race Car Driver. Jordan has 8 years of racing experience consisting of Karts, Legend cars, and Skip Barber race series. His experience and expertise in car control and race craft can help any racer improve their skills" (BBM) http://www.eventbrite.com/e/march16...rt-and-racing-instruction-tickets-16128937085

* October, 2014: Newsletter about Skip Barber Racing School cites JW as age 25 http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/item/110439-insight-the-skip-barber-karts-to-cars-scholarship

I have not been able to find any racing results for Wallace in the 2005-2013 timeframe, nor news stories about football in 2001-2005 at Annapolis High.

I could sort of understand not much info on his high school football, but you'd think there'd be something. And the internet was much more active post 2005 so you'd think for sure there'd be something about JW racing.

 

[rkf]

That's not quite correct. You have to be participating in a qualifying felony (usually violent/dangerous), like if you were engaged in misdemeanor petty theft that wouldn't qualify as there is no underlying felony nor in most jurisdictions would a felony like check fraud qualify. With the home invasion I don't know a safe crime that DW could admit though that wouldn't qualify under felony murder.

So are you saying that if you plan to drive the getaway car for a robbery and your partner shoots and kills the gas station attendant, you aren't equally guilty of felony murder? Maybe it differs by state, because I know of at least one case in Texas where this is exactly what happened. The driver was found guilty of first degree murder, just like the shooter.

ETA: I should have said felonious activity - that's what I actually meant!

 

[rkf]

It might be that there are cultural issues because Wint is from a foreign country. This crime happened during a time of civil unrest with all law enforcement painted with the same brush no matter their race. A chip on his shoulder could be why Wint is refusing to engage a Caucasian attorney. Too many factors still unknown...

JMO

That is just ridiculous.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Wint is charged only with murder. This case is far from the slam dunk some think it to be.

It must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed all four. I'm pretty sure the jury expects evidence he is the one who swung the bat, held the knife, etc.

JMO

Not true. We won't know the jury instructions for quite a while. The jury only has to think the prosecution proved that he was there at the time of the murders or directly involved in some other way.

Jury instructions may also provide that they can convict on one, two, three or all four murders.

The charges themselves can also be amended before going to court.

ETA: IF THIS GOES TO TRIAL.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

So are you saying that if you plan to drive the getaway car for a robbery and your partner shoots and kills the gas station attendant, you aren't equally guilty of felony murder? Maybe it differs by state, because I know of at least one case in Texas where this is exactly what happened. The driver was found guilty of first degree murder, just like the shooter.

That is not at all what I am saying. You had posted that "any criminal activity" would qualify and I was saying that it has to not just be a felony but certain specific felonies that differ by region. Robbery would qualify in all regions that I'm aware of, but if you engaged in a misdemeanor petty theft conspiracy and one of the petty thieves killed someone that wouldn't qualify as there is no underlying felony involved and also if you did something like credit card fraud conspiracy that wouldn't qualify even though that's a felony.

 

[observation]

So...nothing really new in terms of info since May? Man, here in Europe and was hoping for new info.


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