DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #17

[CrimeNeverPays]

I am a dealmaker for a living. The worst type of dealmaker is the one that marches through the term sheet in a linear fashion, making a binary decision about each term in isolation. Some terms are more important or less negotiable than others, but some of them are protections for rare or unlikely events and taken with other favorable terms don't matter as much. The best type is the one who looks at the deal at a whole, that takes in the big picture, and determines what gives and takes could be made to make the deal attractive enough -- for both parties -- to make the deal work.

I think that's akin to evaluating evidence in a case. Of course there are some types of evidence that carry more weight than others and some can totally make or break a determination of guilt. But most evidence isn't like that. Most is sort of ambiguous or not that damning in isolation, but it's when you start looking at it together that it starts to make a pretty compelling picture.

I think that's why some of us went cold when the Mosler registration was found in JW's backpack along with his passport. Some of us already suspected that the car might be the some sort of key to the puzzle. You have a "racer", one who has said the car is worth $700k and has posted pictures of the car in his SM. You have not just a racer, but a "broke racer" whose big hurdle is not having enough money to race. You have a new hire who was fired from his last job. You have a guy who is hired to drive people around and run errands, while someone else, a REAL retired racer, not many years older than this guy, is hired to coach a 10-year-old to race. You have some lies to the police. Some calls from within the crime scene to this same individual. A text to the wife who is presumably in the hospital to go to her house because it's on fire. An unreturned phone call from his boss for whom $40K has been left in the garage. Someone who sounds a lot like him driving the porsche "erratically". You have a car that is torched and ditched near where the guy's father used to live. Which also happens to be where the main suspect lived. A main suspect caught in a caravan involving a "moving garage" that can't normally be rented as a one-off. A main suspect who fled back toward the scene of the crime, maybe to get something. You have a backpack with a registration for a certain car that the guy believes is worth $700K.

A piece here and there, and pretty soon you have a good story.

Your post is clear & concise... my brain processing is all over the place, but you stated it all clearly & succinctly- the best summary of the facts. & I Thank YOU for the post Skigirl!

 

[al66pine]

Maybe if JW told his bosses he had permission [to use schools' names in connection w karting league] and didn't. If his bosses new this was not school-sanctioned and allowed it to proceed, JW would not be the one at fault IMO.

If JW's boss knew of & approved of the league concept & that JW was trying to get schools onboard, seems he should have known that a school's wink and grin (? said in MSM ~before league -launch, ~ school administrators are really positive about the league, my paraphrasing, sorry no link) was not sufficient approval to move forward w league tryouts, races, championship.

Agreeing, if JW's boss knew about JW's soliciting school's re league and allowed him to proceed, the eventual blow-up, azz-uming there was one, was not JW's fault. But JW could be fingered & fired as a convenient scapegoat.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.

 

[MyBelle]

He's a violent felon who was able to elude immigration for deportation that should have happened much sooner than after 39 offenses. I hope this kind of offender is studied enough to be flagged and removed before they wind up killing law abiding citizens.

JMO but IMO JW will not be arrested in this case. The very fact that he lied made thorough investigation of him immediately imperative. IMO he's cleared

BBM. LE can investigate somebody until the cows come home but to make an arrest stick, a prosecutor does require compelling evidence beyond his lies.

Lack of an arrest does not equal being cleared by LE.

JMO

 

[Skigirl]

I understand what you're saying, but that's calm, logical thinking in unimaginably shocking circumstances that we can only imagine.

Maybe being interviewed by LE was a little too close to some issues growing up with LE dad?

For some people, lying is a learned response, not even thought about while they're doing it. It's like a reflex. I've seen this exactly; son and super critical father. The son lied about inconsequential things even as an adult, but only when questioned, and even about innocuous things. When left to speak on his own, no lies - only when asked questions. He was so used to be criticized, the kneejerk reaction was to lie because there was a shield. A lie because to tell anything near what he was really thinking or feeling would mean he would be criticized. Nobody likes to be told their feelings are wrong or inappropriate. There's no emotional investment in a lie, but to tell someone what you're thinking and feeling and then be told they're wrong? It breaks my heart.

I can only imagine and speculate and project what he was thinking in that situation, but I can pretty much guarantee that it was from an emotional place of feeling guilty or attacked. Learned.

ETA: to kammiemc: Well, for cornssake, I just realized that my first sentence repeated what you said about understanding each other and I swear it wasn't intentional! Please don't think I was being sarcastic It was an honest statement, lol!

OMG, this was what the therapist said about my friend's fiance who she finally left over the "no milk in the store anywhere" incident I relayed at length some threads ago. But wow, there is nothing normal about it, or the circumstances that gave rise to the behavior, and IMHO that sort of reflexive, purposeless lying doesn't bode well for the rest of matters in life... JMO.

 

[TexMex]

BBM. LE can investigate somebody until the cows come home but to make an arrest stick, a prosecutor does require compelling evidence beyond his lies.

Lack of an arrest does not equal being cleared by LE.

JMO

Prosecutors cannot prosecute someone who has not been arrested. After searches and investigation spanning eight weeks, JW is not under arrest, which IMO means they found no compelling evidence.
JMO

Former Asst Director FBI Ron Hosko
"Certainly by now they have had enough time to do lab examinations, to get records- typically in this case phone records that may put others in proximity to the crime scene. To lift fingerprints and get other DNA from the scene. Now the question is: does that exist? "

 

[BellaVita]

If JW's boss knew of & approved of the league concept & that JW was trying to get schools onboard, seems he should have known that a school's wink and grin (? said in MSM ~before league -launch, ~ school administrators are really positive about the league, my paraphrasing, sorry no link) was not sufficient approval to move forward w league tryouts, races, championship.

Agreeing, if JW's boss knew about JW's soliciting school's re league and allowed him to proceed, the eventual blow-up, azz-uming there was one), was not JW's fault. But JW could be fingered & fired as a convenient scapegoat.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.

I really don't think there was a problem with league being legit. I don't think we can post twitter here but I found a tweet from one of the students from Sandy Spring Friends School. One of the league participants. He tweeted that the racing league was approved as a school sport. Also, that school is private and also accepts boarding students. High school tuition is over $30,000 and with board is $56,000. Don't know about the other schools. Haven't looked into them yet.

 

[rkf]

I paid to access an online database and posted all that stuff at the same time a couple other people were posting information about the registration. It showed all the registrations for the car by VIN and the last one it showed was 2011. I don't recall it saying to whom the car was registered. I definitely don't remember seeing that a trust was the owner. It did show the emissions test in January 2015, which would have been odd timing for a car whose registration is due, generally, in November. I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks. The carfax report I have didn't say who owned it either (obviously). Don't worry if you can't find it. I wondered if that database gave all the registration renewals, since Carfax doesn't always.

 

[rkf]

He's a violent felon who was able to elude immigration for deportation that should have happened much sooner than after 39 offenses. I hope this kind of offender is studied enough to be flagged and removed before they wind up killing law abiding citizens.

JMO but IMO JW will not be arrested in this case. The very fact that he lied made thorough investigation of him immediately imperative. IMO he's cleared

Not sleuthing, just saying that if some of DW's relatives aren't indicted for this crime, they might want to hire Hanover. They should be deported tout suite. JMO

 

[rkf]

It IS interesting. And it makes very clear that the lies ARE actually lies. Not just misinterpretations by LE. For instance-BIG difference between seeing the bank manager hand the money to the accountant in a manila envelope and the second version where JW says the money was taken from the accountant's pockets and placed into a red bag and THEN JW puts the money into a manila envelope from his own car.

I noticed in the warrant that there was no red bag found in the BMW? Did I overlook that somehow? Because that would be very strange for it not to be there. The warrant was issued the 15th. I wonder if LE had custody of the car before the warrant was signed or if they had to go to JW home and get it. No red bag, yet a Mac laptop was in the car. All this other stuff in the car but not the red bag. Now I'm thinking about DW going to the Mosler and getting the money. IF it was in manila envelope or something else. Must have brought it inside with him. When he left the burning house, did he still have the money in the envelope/bag or was that left at the scene? Did DW stuff the money in his clothing or was it in the bucket he carried away from the Porsche? Also noting all the forensic evidence taken from the BMW. LE very interested in DNA/prints and even carpet.

It's possible the "red lined bag" was JW's Herschel backpack, although LE has not made a statement to that affect. All Herschel backpacks have red stripe or red lining. Here is an example:

 

[rkf]

Question. I keep forgetting to ask this and this is not rhetorical; it's a genuine question. I read the interviews / search warrants and I now have no idea as to what really happened concerning JW getting the cash from the employee. I read it again and again.

Is there an account of what actually happened, or do we even know? Honestly, I sometimes fret about my reading comprehension.

Thank you all in advance. Is there a final determination? I'm not looking to argue because I honestly can't figure out what actually happened.



:banghead:-----------:maddening:-------------:bang:------------:doh:-----------

IDK which story if any is true. LE can confirm at least some of the details of the stories, which other witnesses. Unfortunately, they haven't shared that info with us.

 

[popsicle]

I'm in the middle of a murder trial but wanted to share this. He was at the PC yesterday for another case.

Harry Jaffe ‏@harryjaffe Jul 8Washington, DC
No news in on Savopoulos family murders.

Harry Jaffe ‏@harryjaffe Jul 8Washington, DC
On Savopoulos murders, Chief Lanier downplays further arrests.

 

[BellaVita]

It's possible the "red lined bag" was JW's Herschel backpack, although LE has not made a statement to that affect. All Herschel backpacks have red stripe or red lining. Here is an example:
View attachment 77851

Thanks for the photo. I did notice that the bag is referred to as both "red" and "red lined". And on the search warrant it specifies that the Herschel backpack is black. Odd that it doesn't mention "red lined" in the return but if all Herschels are lined like that then it makes sense. The texted photo will show the proof.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

I really don't think there was a problem with league being legit. I don't think we can post twitter here but I found a tweet from one of the students from Sandy Spring Friends School. One of the league participants. He tweeted that the racing league was approved as a school sport. Also, that school is private and also accepts boarding students. High school tuition is over $30,000 and with board is $56,000. Don't know about the other schools. Haven't looked into them yet.

What a great idea to check that way. I looked at every high school site and saw nothing listed in athletics or club sports. I just found a twitter account from one of the principal's of one of the public high schools telling people to go out and watch the races.

Is there a crow eating smiley here? :shame:

 

[BellaVita]

What a great idea to check that way. I looked at every high school site and saw nothing listed in athletics or club sports. I just found a twitter account from one of the principal's of one of the public high schools telling people to go out and watch the races.

Is there a crow eating smiley here? :shame:

I think it can safely be said that league is legit and had nothing to do with JW being fired. IMO.

 

[FelicityLemon]

OMG, this was what the therapist said about my friend's fiance who she finally left over the "no milk in the store anywhere" incident I relayed at length some threads ago. But wow, there is nothing normal about it, or the circumstances that gave rise to the behavior, and IMHO that sort of reflexive, purposeless lying doesn't bode well for the rest of matters in life... JMO.

Ooh! Off to find that post - sounds fascinating - and frustrating! This is the kind of lying that my SIL does, but it's not self preservation, it's pure and useless manipulation. She'll lie about the weather you're standing in and smile with a challenge.
Glad to hear your friend got out

 

[BellaVita]

I also wonder if police asked JW for permission to search the car or if they felt it was legally better for a possible prosecution to get a warrant? Even though warrants can get thrown out.

 

[rkf]

Thanks for the photo. I did notice that the bag is referred to as both "red" and "red lined". And on the search warrant it specifies that the Herschel backpack is black. Odd that it doesn't mention "red lined" in the return but if all Herschels are lined like that then it makes sense. The texted photo will show the proof.

I believe the affidavits all say "red lined bag", but MSM has shortened that to red bag in some places. Wish we could get a look at that photo!

 

[rkf]

I also wonder if police asked JW for permission to search the car or if they felt it was legally better for a possible prosecution to get a warrant? Even though warrants can get thrown out.

It doesn't appear that they searched the car until days after the SW was signed. I wonder why they waited so long.

 

[BellaVita]

I believe the affidavits all say "red lined bag", but MSM has shortened that to red bag in some places. Wish we could get a look at that photo!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bnrqs5luwkl0qk2/267776483-Search-Warrant-for-BMW.pdf?dl=0

On page 8, it is referred to as "red" by Wallace. Could just be a figure of speech/not specific enough.

 

[rkf]

IDK. LE said the photo was taken in a "red lined bag" two paragraphs later. I just checked some of the other SWs, and they all have JW saying "red bag". My mistake! Thank you for pointing it out. I must have glossed over the difference. Wonder if it's significant. If it really was a red bag, then that can't be the backpack which is black. If the red bag had red lining, it could be the same bag in the photo that the accountant placed the money. If the red bag doesn't have red lining, then that's yet another bag in which the ransom money spent time.