DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #17

[rkf]

Or perhaps someone else knew the story of why SS gave it to JW. A friend, someone at the car inspection place?
LE knows about it and has investigated it and not charged JW with anything.

I am well aware that LE has investigated JW and that he has not (yet) been charged with anything AFAIK.
I think assuming he has been investigated and cleared is equally as valid an opinion as saying he has been investigated and will be charged when LE has all their ducks in a row, or even that LE has investigated and is holding him on a sealed warrant.
Since LE has not told us the results of their investigation, it is sheer speculation to say the investigation resulted in 1) JW being cleared, 2) evidence discovered that points to JW's unwitting involvement 3) JW being the mastermind behind a burglary that went bad or 4) JW being the mastermind of an evil premeditated torture murder where the coup de grâce was to be the burning alive of JW's 10 year-old rival for racing fame.

 

[TexMex]

I am well aware that LE has investigated JW and that he has not (yet) been charged with anything AFAIK.
I think assuming he has been investigated and cleared is equally as valid an opinion as saying he has been investigated and will be charged when LE has all their ducks in a row, or even that LE has investigated and is holding him on a sealed warrant.
Since LE has not told us the results of their investigation, it is sheer speculation to say the investigation resulted in 1) JW being cleared, 2) evidence discovered that points to JW's unwitting involvement 3) JW being the mastermind behind a burglary that went bad or 4) JW being the mastermind of an evil premeditated torture murder where the coup de grâce was to be the burning alive of JW's 10 year-old rival for racing fame.

JMO but like Former Asst Director FBI Ron Hosko who said on CNN:

"Certainly by now they have had enough time to do lab examinations, to get records- typically in this case phone records that may put others in proximity to the crime scene. To lift fingerprints and get other DNA from the scene. Now the question is: does that exist? "

I tend to believe him and his LE experience. It is what it is. Sometimes the simple explanation is what happened. A guy kicked in a door, tied up women and a child then demanded money from the wealthy homeowners.
As for JW one commentator stated it simply. Despite his early lies, after LE investigated "the proof is in the pudding, no arrest"

 

[kammiemc]

I am well aware that LE has investigated JW and that he has not (yet) been charged with anything AFAIK.
I think assuming he has been investigated and cleared is equally as valid an opinion as saying he has been investigated and will be charged when LE has all their ducks in a row, or even that LE has investigated and is holding him on a sealed warrant.
Since LE has not told us the results of their investigation, it is sheer speculation to say the investigation resulted in 1) JW being cleared, 2) evidence discovered that points to JW's unwitting involvement 3) JW being the mastermind behind a burglary that went bad or 4) JW being the mastermind of an evil premeditated torture murder where the coup de grâce was to be the burning alive of JW's 10 year-old rival for racing fame.

Thank you!!!!!! We just don't know. As much I like TexMex, the cuisine and the poster, the only fact that is for sure is that we just don't know at this point. It's alllllll spec.


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[TexMex]

Thank you!!!!!! We just don't know. As much I like TexMex, the cuisine and the poster, the only fact that is for sure is that we just don't know at this point. It's alllllll spec.


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True. I never said I know though. It's just my opinion. I'd rather wait for LE to tell us JW is involved than speculate that he burned a child to death or masterminded the crime. I honestly think he was thoroughly investigated precisely because he lied. That made LE pay special attention to him and his involvement. And after that investigation (plenty of time per FBI official) eight weeks later he's not charged.

 

[facundo]

Raises good point about who had the $$$ and when.

Did DDW provide $ and instructions to convert to money orders, etc, before he left DC for NY?
Would hetrust his chum for an indeterminate time - perhaps a few days - w that amt?
Would he trust all of them for that time?
If ^ was chronology, then yes, conceivably they could have ended up w stolen $ and reward.

Or after securing $, did DDW head w $ to NY, return to DC by Uber, look up his chums, then provide $ & instructions, w agreement to meet up in X hours or a day? This would require DDW's trust in his chums for shorter time.
^ is what I thought I had read (or may have azz-umed, sorry if I messed up timeline).
If ^ was chronology and if chums told LE he was on the way back to DC, then they would not yet have had stolen $ in hand , so no chance to keep stolen $ and get reward.

Maybe there is another chronology that could also result in chums getting both stolen $ and reward $. IDK.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.

I wish I cd/find MSM re reward. Was it for info leading to arrest or arrest and conviction?

"The MPDC offers up to $25,000 to anyone who provides information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for any unsolved homicide committed in the District of Columbia. Individuals should call police at (202) 727-9099."

http://mpdc.dc.gov/page/most-wanted

I know that MSM cited a reward of $100,000. Part of that money may have been privately assured.

 

[al66pine]

In my mind, they would not need to physically restrain and deliver DW to LE. If they told LE where they would be, LE could swoop in and retain/arrest everyone just like they did. If DW and an accomplice thought they were just out for a money laundering joyride, they were not expecting LE to catch them. Just like in a drug bust when the informant gets cuffed, too, it would look, at least temporarily, as if everyone was equally surprised by the take down. But the three women/1 man who do not appear to be in custody would have set it up to claim the reward money.

I imagine the women figured it out, but they needed a man to drive the truck. DW's brother was in the truck with one man. DW was in the car with 3 women. He was riding in the back. I'm not saying this definitely happened. I'm just saying, it's a lot easier to envision than the home invasion murders (which definitely happened). Can you think of a reason that makes sense why LE would immediately let 4 people traveling with DW & bro go without any charges?

ETA: I do not think they were taking DW to police headquarters. I think they were bringing him out into the open where LE could arrest him with as little chance of additional casualties as possible. Inside the hotel could have ended up with a hostage situation/death by cop.

Now I'm following train of thought better - no physical restraint or phys coercion of DDW by others, just nudging DDW into the 'open' (ETA) into location where LE can apprehend more safely. Makes sense.
You asked "...why LE would immediately let 4 people traveling with DW & bro go without any charges?..."
Someone else suggested - as bait, so LE cd continue to surv in person, perhaps more importantly track phone, texts, VMs, emails, etc. IDK. Or as I think you're suggesting - b/c all (except DDW's bro?) were involved in providing tip to arrest DDW.
Making more sense.
JM2cts, could be all wrong.


rkf ---Always good to see your posts & analyses.

 

[facundo]

Now I'm following train of thought better - no physical restraint or phys coercion of DDW by others, just nudging DDW into the 'open.' Makes sense.
You asked "...why LE would immediately let 4 people traveling with DW & bro go without any charges?..."
Someone else suggested - as bait, so LE cd continue to surv in person, perhaps more importantly track phone, texts, VMs, emails, etc. IDK. Or as I think you're suggesting - b/c all (except DDW's bro?) were involved in providing tip to arrest DDW.
Making more sense.
JM2cts, could be all wrong.


rkf ---Always good to see your posts & analyses.

LE didn't arrest them because they had no evidence which would hold up in court. The five could have claimed they were driving him to turn himself in and they would not be accessories after the fact. LE can watch the five 24/7 on the street while they build the case to prosecute.

 

[al66pine]

"The MPDC offers up to $25,000 to anyone who provides information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for any unsolved homicide committed in the District of Columbia. Individuals should call police at (202) 727-9099."
http://mpdc.dc.gov/page/most-wanted
I know that MSM cited a reward of $100,000. Part of that money may have been privately assured.

facundo
Thx for finding this link & info. TYVM.

I wonder if MSM did some math ($25,000 x 4 unsolved homicides) and decided to publish the $100,000 figure?
Or as you say, part of the $100,000 may be privately assured.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.

 

[BondGirl]

LE didn't arrest them because they had no evidence which would hold up in court. The five could have claimed they were driving him to turn himself in and they would not be accessories after the fact. LE can watch the five 24/7 on the street while they build the case to prosecute.

Didn't we discuss back at beginning of June that Grand Juries start with the new month....so if one was called beginning of June shouldn't it be wrapping up before DW's July 20th prelim hearing? What do we expect? Would they hold the indictments if there were some?

 

[CoreyRocks]

But we want it to be something grander than over $40k. Although sadly people are killed over much less.

IMO I think DW was going for way more money, lots more. I mentioned on a previous thread I thought it was mentioned that in the flurry of calls SS was trying to get huge amounts of money wire transfered. It appears no one answered my post and I would think someone else might recall too. The police were checking paperwork, credit cards, multiple accounts, and took hundreds of pieces of evidence from the home including from what appeared to be an upstairs office..

I agree with you that people kill for way less, but feel that to DW he had to"settle" for 40K as that is all SS could get that quickly. I think his ultimate goal was always murder but that he thought he could get millions. My opinion only.

 

[rkf]

JMO but like Former Asst Director FBI Ron Hosko who said on CNN:

"Certainly by now they have had enough time to do lab examinations, to get records- typically in this case phone records that may put others in proximity to the crime scene. To lift fingerprints and get other DNA from the scene. Now the question is: does that exist? "

I tend to believe him and his LE experience. It is what it is. Sometimes the simple explanation is what happened. A guy kicked in a door, tied up women and a child then demanded money from the wealthy homeowners.
As for JW one commentator stated it simply. Despite his early lies, after LE investigated "the proof is in the pudding, no arrest"

I don't know if JW or anyone else other than DW was involved in the planning or execution of this crime. I'm just not ready to close my mind to all the possibilities until we hear something specific directly from LE who are investigating the crime. JMO.

 

[rkf]

"The MPDC offers up to $25,000 to anyone who provides information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for any unsolved homicide committed in the District of Columbia. Individuals should call police at (202) 727-9099."

http://mpdc.dc.gov/page/most-wanted

I know that MSM cited a reward of $100,000. Part of that money may have been privately assured.

It also might be per victim - otherwise, I don't know how they came up with that figure (other than a private bounty).

 

[al66pine]

JMO but like Former Asst Director FBI Ron Hosko who said on CNN:
"Certainly by now they have had enough time to do lab examinations, to get records- typically in this case phone records that may put others in proximity to the crime scene. To lift fingerprints and get other DNA from the scene. Now the question is: does that exist? "
I tend to believe him and his LE experience. It is what it is. Sometimes the simple explanation is what happened. A guy kicked in a door, tied up women and a child then demanded money from the wealthy homeowners.
As for JW one commentator stated it simply. Despite his early lies, after LE investigated "theproof is in the pudding,no arrest"

bbm

His FBI exp lends credibility to his stmts, but he did not claim to have any info specific to this case.
'enough time' and 'typically"
Does ^ mean w certainty - 100% forensics tests, interviews, etc. have been completed? IDK. 90% IDK. 50%? IDK.

Imo, your 'simple explanation' may be the long and short of this tragedy, w no crim participants other than DDW. Could be, IDK.

No arrest? Agreeing, true ATM.
Another phrase is also accurate ATM: No arrests yet. This pudding has not set yet.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.

_____________________________________________________________
(OT for some, relevant for our gastronomes and gourmet chefs:
http://www.npr.org/2012/08/24/159975466/corrections-and-comments-to-stories
and http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pro1.htm
"...the full proverb is indeed the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Secondly, proof here has the sense of “test” (as it also has, or used to have, in phrases such as proving-ground and printer’s proof). The proverb literally says that you won’t know whether food has been cooked properly until you try it. Or, putting it figuratively, don’t assume that something is in order or believe what you are told, but judge the matter by testing it;...")

 

[rkf]

Now I'm following train of thought better - no physical restraint or phys coercion of DDW by others, just nudging DDW into the 'open' (ETA) into location where LE can apprehend more safely. Makes sense.
You asked "...why LE would immediately let 4 people traveling with DW & bro go without any charges?..."
Someone else suggested - as bait, so LE cd continue to surv in person, perhaps more importantly track phone, texts, VMs, emails, etc. IDK. Or as I think you're suggesting - b/c all (except DDW's bro?) were involved in providing tip to arrest DDW.
Making more sense.
JM2cts, could be all wrong.


rkf ---Always good to see your posts & analyses.

Thank you al66pine!

Yes! That's exactly what I'm suggesting.

I speculate that the only person, other than DW, who may have been involved in the actual murders is in custody under a sealed warrant or another charge. The 4 who were let go probably knew nothing about the crime, but were aware that DW came into a wad of cash at the same time as the murders hit the news. The reward was posted in MSM by May 19th. DW was named a suspect from DNA on the 20th. He took off for NY. Returns to DC on the 21st and is arrested that night. Despite what his girlfriend said, I don't think DW had any intention of turning himself in. I think the people in the convoy saw a chance to legitimately cash in on a guy who probably didn't treat the people around him very well, in addition to being a violent psychopath. If the people in the convoy were in any way involved in the murders, I don't believe LE would have let them out on the street. Whoever committed the atrocities at the S house is unpredictable and dangerous. LE couldn't take the chance that they would commit more vicious crimes while they surveilled them. If the convoy didn't have any inside knowledge, monitoring their movements and phone calls probably wouldn't provide LE with any useful intel. JMO.

 

[blessedlife]

Even drug dealers can count money.

Lol.....okay, I'm not going to debate the intelligence of DW or his crew. I think it's pretty clear what that level of intelligence is given that we are here talking about it 4 murders and $40,000 later. I'll end with this.......they can count but not divide. Kidding with you. Let's boogy on....


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[rkf]

LE didn't arrest them because they had no evidence which would hold up in court. The five could have claimed they were driving him to turn himself in and they would not be accessories after the fact. LE can watch the five 24/7 on the street while they build the case to prosecute.

They could claim they were driving him to turn himself in, but they would have to convince a jury if LE decided to arrest them for laundering money or aiding and abetting a felon. If they hadn't made any contact with LE about turning him in, it would be their word against LE, who found them with a truck-load of cash and money orders, getting ready to make a U-turn away from the police station... His name and face were plastered all over the media. Claiming not to know he was a wanted man would be a hard sell IMO.

 

[BondGirl]

Thank you al66pine!

Yes! That's exactly what I'm suggesting.

I speculate that the only person who may have been involved in the actual murders is in custody under a sealed warrant or another charge. The 4 who were let go probably knew nothing about the crime, but were aware that DW came into a wad of cash at the same time as the murders hit the news. The reward was posted in MSM by May 19th. DW was named a suspect from DNA on the 20th. He took off for NY. Returns to DC on the 21st and is arrested that night. Despite what his girlfriend said, I don't think DW had any intention of turning himself in. I think the people in the convoy saw a chance to legitimately cash in on a guy who probably didn't treat the people around him very well, in addition to being a violent psychopath. If the people in the convoy were in any way involved in the murders, I don't believe LE would have let them out on the street. Whoever committed the atrocities at the S house is unpredictable and dangerous. LE couldn't take the chance that they would commit more vicious crimes while they surveilled them. If the convoy didn't have any inside knowledge, monitoring their movements and phone calls probably wouldn't provide LE with any useful intel. JMO.

Interesting. Hence DW claiming to be set up. Maybe he'll be mad they turned him in and will claim the four were in on it from the beginning.

 

[blessedlife]

"The MPDC offers up to $25,000 to anyone who provides information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for any unsolved homicide committed in the District of Columbia. Individuals should call police at (202) 727-9099."

http://mpdc.dc.gov/page/most-wanted

I know that MSM cited a reward of $100,000. Part of that money may have been privately assured.

Just a random question. I know rewards are offered many times in crimes as a way to get information but who would take a reward for a gruesome crime.....or really any crime? Most people don't need to collect on a reward in order to come forward and say "he did it, she did it, they did it." I never really hear of rewards being paid. Maybe it's confidential. Has anyone put in a reward for this or would we ever know?


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[TexMex]

bbm

His FBI exp lends credibility to his stmts, but he did not claim to have any info specific to this case.
'enough time' and 'typically"
Does ^ mean w certainty - 100% forensics tests, interviews, etc. have been completed? IDK. 90% IDK. 50%? IDK.

Imo, your 'simple explanation' may be the long and short of this tragedy, w no crim participants other than DDW. Could be, IDK.

No arrest? Agreeing, true ATM.
Another phrase is also accurate ATM: No arrests yet. This pudding has not set yet.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.

_____________________________________________________________
(OT for some, relevant for our gastronomes and gourmet chefs:
http://www.npr.org/2012/08/24/159975466/corrections-and-comments-to-stories
and http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pro1.htm

Here's the clip

He states that certainly by now there has been enough time to do lab examinations and get records and test fingerprints/DNA. He goes on to explain that in a case like this such records typically involve phone records

http://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/2015/07/02/mansion-murders-suspect-in-court-foreman-dnt-lead.cnn
I trust his experience. This isn't the first home invasion investigation ever. LE knows what to do.

The idiom is usually stated the proof is in the pudding and means that the end result is the mark of the success or failure of one’s efforts or planning. The end result of the investigation into JW is no charges
JMO

JMO

 

[justice be served]

One of them may have called the tip line. We'll never know because it was supposed to be kept confidential.

JMO

frankly, doubtful. jmo