DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #18

[facundo]

Google Maps shows that from either BOA Hyattsville branch, the routes taken are 500, 410 or Michigan. No suggestion to take Route 1 which is also NY Ave, I believe? From looking at the map, Route 1/NY Ave would be a VERY long way around, IMO.

If you lived in Washington DC you would know the fastest routes to take, where to avoid the most traffic, street lights, etc. Route 1 and NY ave are major thorough fares, signal lights favor the traffic on these routes with longer green time.

 

[kammiemc]

Oh thanks. Since there is no other source, I'm sort of thinking NT made the same mistake many others have on that point. I think he's making the same assumptions that a lot of us have made.

Totally could be his assumption since no more details were specified about the call! Which is, itself, an Interesting question: why wouldn't it be specified if a convo took place. That seems pretty significant since it was the last call from SS's phone. If the call was indeed answered, I wonder what the call was for! And if it was SS on behalf of DW, or just DW. Or if it was a VM, what that VM directed JW to do.

What could have either SS or DW wanted from JW an hour and a half after drop off and an hour before the fire? So many missing pieces.


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[kammiemc]

What is the other case? I'd like to look it up. Thanks.

Look up Matthew Muller. (Kidnapping hoax Vallejo.) Talk about a Coen Bros plot. Months after LE made their determination everything got turned upside down. The victims were blamed for staging their own kidnapping.


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[Skigirl]

Totally could be his assumption since no more details were specified about the call! Which is, itself, an Interesting question: why wouldn't it be specified if a convo took place. That seems pretty significant since it was the last call from SS's phone. If the call was indeed answered, I wonder what the call was for! And if it was SS on behalf of DW, or just DW. Or if it was a VM, what that VM directed JW to do.

What could have either SS or DW wanted from JW an hour and a half after drop off and an hour before the fire? So many missing pieces.


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I really hope we get some info on the 20th! LE has kept so much close to the vest. I wish all the SWs returns were released. The length of that last call might be informative. If it's less than 30 seconds, it could go either way, but much longer and you might assume that they actually spoke. Plus, I'm sure LE knows whether there was a VM and if so, what it said. Too bad the call wasn't to NG because we'd have heard the VM by now!

 

[facundo]

I really hope we get some info on the 20th! LE has kept so much close to the vest. I wish all the SWs returns were released. The length of that last call might be informative. If it's less than 30 seconds, it could go either way, but much longer and you might assume that they actually spoke. Plus, I'm sure LE knows whether there was a VM and if so, what it said. Too bad the call wasn't to NG because we'd have heard the VM by now!

I am beginning to wonder if the lack of information being disseminated is because of federal involvement in the investigation. Whereas State and local police are more responsive to public requests for information, the feds keep everything under wraps. An example is the Chattanooga attack yesterday, FBI is keeping the investigation silent. In the James Holmes Aurora Shooting, information was announced in near-real time.

 

[BellaVita]

If you lived in Washington DC you would know the fastest routes to take, where to avoid the most traffic, street lights, etc. Route 1 and NY ave are major thorough fares, signal lights favor the traffic on these routes with longer green time.

I appreciate your knowledge of the area and understand what you're saying about local knowledge. Maybe Google Maps is not all that accurate then? I spent quite a bit of time there and Route 1/NY was never a suggested route. In any case, according to the time of the tweets, I don't think it would have effected drive time, but could be wrong.

 

[facundo]

I appreciate your knowledge of the area and understand what you're saying about local knowledge. Maybe Google Maps is not all that accurate then? I spent quite a bit of time there and Route 1/NY was never a suggested route. In any case, according to the time of the tweets, I don't think it would have effected drive time, but could be wrong.

Google is fairly accurate but if you want to avoid traffic you need to look for alternative routes. If you see Google is taking you a shorter route through city traffic, you need to look for arterial routes. They are shown on the map.

 

[BondGirl]

If you lived in Washington DC you would know the fastest routes to take, where to avoid the most traffic, street lights, etc. Route 1 and NY ave are major thorough fares, signal lights favor the traffic on these routes with longer green time.

Exactly!

 

[FelicityLemon]

Thanks for bringing that up anyway. I re-read the article and it does say unequivocally that the call went unanswered. NT writes that the Washington Post is the news outlet that obtained the cell records. Daily Mail also reports WP as a source of info for the records. Has the SW return been unsealed and I missed it or did WP have a source that disclosed that info off the record?

Yes, I can't imagine that a news outlet would release only a small piece of the information. It's possible, but I can't imagine it.

 

[BondGirl]

2 hrs. behind, sorry if repeating. With (Google + Wiki + {unknown term} + Enter) we can learn a lot.

Short Answer
Lividity = settling of blood in lower part of body after death, a sign that can help pathologist doing autopsy determine several things, including ~time of death (TOD or ToD) & whether body was moved after death, & more.

Medium Answer
"Livor mortis [or] ... lividity ... is one of the signs of death. Livor mortis is a settling of the blood in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin. When the heart stops functioning and is no longer agitating the blood, heavy red blood cells sink through the serum by action of gravity. Livor mortis starts twenty minutes to three hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in four to five hours. Maximum lividity occurs within 6–12 hours. The blood pools into the interstitial tissues of the body. The intensity of the color depends upon the amount of reduced hemoglobin in the blood. The discoloration does not occur in the areas of the body that are in contact with the ground or another object, in which capillaries are compressed. As the vessel walls become permeable due to decomposition, blood leaks through them and stains the tissue. This is the reason for fixation of hypostasis." bbm
"Coroners can use the presence or absence of livor mortis as a means of determining an approximate time of death. The presence of livor mortis is also an indication of when it would be futile to begin CPR, or when it would be ineffective to continue if it is in progress. It can also be used by forensic investigators to determine whether or not a body has been moved - for instance, if the body is found lying face down but the pooling is present on the deceased's back, investigators can conclude that the body was originally positioned face up." bbm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

Long Answer
References listed at end of link.

Bell rings; Class dismissed. LOL.

Thank you! I try to avoid having to think about things like this.

 

[mk4osu]

There has been much speculation, as to what DW's motivation was, for this crime. We don't know, and we may never know. IMO, this crime was personal...filled with so much rage and hate. He wanted them to suffer. I'm not sure what I believe, but the more I ponder, I have to wonder if the primary reason for the crime was torture/murder, and the robbery was just the icing on his cake. The fact that VF was still alive/breathing, when the first responders arrived on the scene, makes me wonder if her torture was somewhat less than the others. If DW hated SS, it might explain why he was so brutal toward the family. Was he less than so, with VF, because she was just a victim of circumstance, and not a part of the family? This is just something that has been on my mind.....

 

[facundo]

Yes, I can't imagine that a news outlet would release only a small piece of the information. It's possible, but I can't imagine it.

Here is the Washington Post article that Nate Thayer cited:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...00af9e-ff07-11e4-8b6c-0dcce21e223d_story.html

 

[BondGirl]

Thanks for bringing that up anyway. I re-read the article and it does say unequivocally that the call went unanswered. NT writes that the Washington Post is the news outlet that obtained the cell records. Daily Mail also reports WP as a source of info for the records. Has the SW return been unsealed and I missed it or did WP have a source that disclosed that info off the record?

Yes, they have off the record sources very often.

 

[Keefer]

Yep,
The torture of Philip is one of the "keys" to this crime. I am not convinced that he was tortured solely for revenge tho. Ponder all the reasons why torture happens...
Look at the mechanics of this crime with enough critical thought and it's quite easy to narrow down why he was tortured to only 2 likely possibilities.

 

[BellaVita]

Yep,
The torture of Philip is one of the "keys" to this crime. I am not convinced that he was tortured solely for revenge tho. Ponder all the reasons why torture happens...
Look at the mechanics of this crime with enough critical thought and it's quite easy to narrow down why he was tortured to only 2 likely possibilities.

I'm trying to guess your thoughts. What are the 2 possibilities?

 

[TexMex]

There has been much speculation, as to what DW's motivation was, for this crime. We don't know, and we may never know. IMO, this crime was personal...filled with so much rage and hate. He wanted them to suffer. I'm not sure what I believe, but the more I ponder, I have to wonder if the primary reason for the crime was torture/murder, and the robbery was just the icing on his cake. The fact that VF was still alive/breathing, when the first responders arrived on the scene, makes me wonder if her torture was somewhat less than the others. If DW hated SS, it might explain why he was so brutal toward the family. Was he less than so, with VF, because she was just a victim of circumstance, and not a part of the family? This is just something that has been on my mind.....

IMO Wint targeted SS because he knew him as a rich guy. He and a cousin (per CNN) both had previous history at AIW. IMO it wasn't started as "revenge" for any hard feelings about the job, just he knew he'd have money. He checked out the home...huge, expensive cars...and decided to target them (the family) He kicked in the door, subdued the females and the boy and once SS is summoned home he starts demanding a large sum in cash. SS begins making those arrangements. IMO as he roamed around the beautiful home with beautiful things and expensive art his rage grew every hour. He also realized his captives would have to die. Once that decision was made the torture was easy for him. JMO

 

[BellaVita]

Here is the Washington Post article that Nate Thayer cited:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...00af9e-ff07-11e4-8b6c-0dcce21e223d_story.html

Again, that is interesting to me because the SW for cell records wasn't executed until the 28th and the article was written on 5/20. Because we don't know if 11:54 was missed, VM, text, or dropped call. Because some posters say a cell phone won't pick up a signal at Lowes. There has been no SW Return unsealed AFAIK. Just makes me wonder what police documents the WP writers are referencing. Maybe JW signed off on LE getting the records and the SW was a formality for the future trial of DW. Or there is some other document that mentioned the police finding the 11:54 while scrolling thru the phone. It is frustrating about this last call because there is more detail on other calls/VM/texts. Just have to wonder if the reporting is lacking or the WP reporters really don't have this info.

 

[facundo]

Yes, I can't imagine that a news outlet would release only a small piece of the information. It's possible, but I can't imagine it.

Editors are more concerned with getting the main story out to the general readers. They are not doing the same critical thinking of all possibilities to solve the crime.

 

[facundo]

There has been much speculation, as to what DW's motivation was, for this crime. We don't know, and we may never know. IMO, this crime was personal...filled with so much rage and hate. He wanted them to suffer. I'm not sure what I believe, but the more I ponder, I have to wonder if the primary reason for the crime was torture/murder, and the robbery was just the icing on his cake. The fact that VF was still alive/breathing, when the first responders arrived on the scene, makes me wonder if her torture was somewhat less than the others. If DW hated SS, it might explain why he was so brutal toward the family. Was he less than so, with VF, because she was just a victim of circumstance, and not a part of the family? This is just something that has been on my mind.....

I wouldn't assume that he was less brutal with VF. Her injuries may have rendered her unconscious so he thought he had done the job on her. Darron Wint doesn't deserve any credit for the fact she was still alive.

 

[facundo]

Yep,
The torture of Philip is one of the "keys" to this crime. I am not convinced that he was tortured solely for revenge tho. Ponder all the reasons why torture happens...
Look at the mechanics of this crime with enough critical thought and it's quite easy to narrow down why he was tortured to only 2 likely possibilities.

"Now, look what you made me do."