DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #19

[katydid23]

If they tell you you can't share it online, make sure they show you where that rule is stated in writing.

They showed a statute. It was convincing enough that Tricia took it off the threads.

 

[atthelake]

It is true that he has lied. But the rumour and innuendo are built upon that to claim that he hired DW to steal cars/kill the family/steal cash.

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: So... I'll give you 75% of the cash if you do my idea and be a ****?

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Yeah, something a defense atty might pose.. on top of *my client doesn't even like pizza!* Katy, you are killing me with your ideas as to what defense attys will come up with that are so :kimster: ! What's next?

 

[jjenny]

Wonder what the defense plans to argue - "No, you did not drop off the $40,000."?

They will have a problem, considering 30K was found with DW and his friends, and another 2K was spend on taxi and lawyer.
So that means 32K is already accounted for.

 

[atthelake]

They would be much better off to let the state call him, so they could try and discredit and impeach him. That is more valuable than calling them by themselves. JMO

If the state does not call him, then they will, I am sure. Then they can ask why the state did not do so. Raising some doubt there.

Ultimately, it does not help DFW much either way, unless they are going to say that JW did the killing and framed DW by inviting him for pizza.

Music interlude needed :biggrin:

[video=youtube;0kNGnIKUdMI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kNGnIKUdMI[/video]

 

[katydid23]

I got the impression from DW's PRIOR attorney that he might concede he was in the house. There was a statement to the effect that when we knew WHO was in the house and what was going on, we would view DW in a more favorable light. There was another statement to the effect that DW did not want to see the family hurt.

But at the hearing, it seemed as if DW was abandoning that tactic. Even he should know that they have nailed him as a perpetrator....he can style himself as the laid-back merciful perpetrator, or the perpetrator who was distracted and dining on pizza when things got violent...but they have nailed him to this horror.

And as I have posted before, if JW is squeaky clean, he is about the poorest choice DW can make as his alternative perp. JW will have been throughly investigated every which way.

Very, very strange.

And if JW is his co-conspirator, and JW did help commit this crime, then why would DW's defense point a finger at him? Do they want him to be arrested and interrogated? WHY? Wouldnt that hurt DW even more if there was another witness to what happened?

I came away from the hearing even more convinced of JW's innocence.

 

[facundo]

good questions.

"WTF does it matter it he lied as to the case against Wint? .. but I really do NOT understand how this impacts/gives an *out* as to Wint?"

It matters if JW LIED to detectives because it impeaches the rest of his testimony. So if the state wants to rely upon JW as proof that the money was dropped off to DW, then his testimony can be seen as less credible if the defense can show he is a liar. And even lied to them that day in the interview.

"...*so what* it he lied. Wint was THERE, Wint had DNA in multiple places.. What does JW have to do with lessening this charge."

TRUE. Going after JW will not lessen the impact of the DNA etc. The only way they can do that is by attacking the forensics team, the lab, and possibly accusing someone of setting him up.

They may be putting JW in that position with these initial attempts.

If defense can convince the jury that JW is a liar and can't be believed. The jury will still have evidence that the accountant gave JW $40,000 and more than $30,000 was found with Wint. Prosecution's case does not rest on JW's testimony. It is mostly a compilation of Wint's own failings.

 

[rkf]

They showed a statute. It was convincing enough that Tricia took it off the threads.

I believe you, but there are different rules for different jurisdictions. Also, sometimes in DC a clerk will just tell you something and hope you believe him/her.

 

[katydid23]

Not that either of these guys is smart enough to pull it off, but assuming they had to talk via phone/text, a burner phone is $15 at AT&T and you can get a plan with unlimited text and calls for $2/day and you're only charged for the days you actually use it! What a deal! Even if the phones and records could be found, one or both would need to say something incriminating to prove JW was involved. Just knowing each other or even talking to each other, two fellow car enthusiasts, who may have had friends or family members who lived near one another at some point, wouldn't be enough to tie JW to the crime IMO. Not to the degree of legal certainty needed to convict. If the prosecutor doesn't think he can win a conviction, s/he's not going to trial.

So let's say they did talk by burner and they planned this whole brutal tragedy out together. If so, why did DW's attorney shine the light on JW and try and make him look guilty? Do they want this crime to come to light?

 

[Peliman]

Transcript Ordering Details:
Cost of transcripts (per page): $3.65 for Regular Delivery (30 calendar days for non-appeal and 60 calendar days for appeal), $4.25 for Intermediate Delivery (15 calendar days), $4.85 for Expedite (7 calendar days), $5.15 for Express (3 business days) , $6.06 for Daily (9:00 am following business day), $7.25 for Hourly (Approval Required), $0.90 for Copy (Regular or Expedite Delivery) $1.20 for Copy (Daily Delivery)


http://www.dccourts.gov/internet/globalcontentlocator.jsf

For additional information on ordering transcripts, please call (202) 879-1009. Division staff will assist you.

 

[rkf]

So let's say they did talk by burner and they planned this whole brutal tragedy out together. If so, why did DW's attorney shine the light on JW and try and make him look guilty? Do they want this crime to come to light?

IDK! If JW set DW up, DW's attorneys would want some proof of that. I'm having a problem with the semantics of "set him up". If it was JW's idea and DW was just the muscle, that doesn't affect DW's guilt if he committed the crimes. If JW set up the crime scene to look like DW was there when he really wasn't and committed the crimes himself, that could be a defense (although, really?!) If the "set up" was the former, I have no idea why they would bring JW up at all. If it's the latter, perhaps to show JW had motive, opportunity and means and to establish a relationship showing JW could have obtained evidence he later planted at the crime scenes and "tricked" DW into doing something noncriminal or a non-violent offense (driving the Porsche to the parking lot?) to make him look guilty.

I think convincing a jury that JW is a mastermind who spent days, weeks or months planning the perfect crime is going to be a tough sell. The man can't even deliver a package to his boss without stopping to take a picture of the contents and text it to his GF! Even if JW doesn't have an alibi for all of the crime, he definitely has one for part of the crime, so he could not have acted alone. I don't envy Argo and Lawson!

 

[jjenny]

JW didn't have the opportunity. Det Owens already testified they checked his wereabouts and they check out. JW wasn't in the house, that much we know.

 

[katydid23]

IDK! If JW set DW up, DW's attorneys would want some proof of that. I'm having a problem with the semantics of "set him up". If it was JW's idea and DW was just the muscle, that doesn't affect DW's guilt if he committed the crimes. If JW set up the crime scene to look like DW was there when he really wasn't and committed the crimes himself, that could be a defense (although, really?!) If the "set up" was the former, I have no idea why they would bring JW up at all. If it's the latter, perhaps to show JW had motive, opportunity and means and to establish a relationship showing JW could have obtained evidence he later planted at the crime scenes and "tricked" DW into doing something noncriminal or a non-violent offense (driving the Porsche to the parking lot?) to make him look guilty.

I think convincing a jury that JW is a mastermind who spent days, weeks or months planning the perfect crime is going to be a tough sell. The man can't even deliver a package to his boss without stopping to take a picture of the contents and text it to his GF! Even if JW doesn't have an alibi for all of the crime, he definitely has one for part of the crime, so he could not have acted alone. I don't envy Argo and Lawson!

You are so right. And explaining my point better than me.

If JW was DW's partner, and they planned this together, then it makes no sense for DW to go after him publicly. Because JW has the evidence needed to help the state find DW GUILTY as charged. And pointing the finger at JW does not help DW in any way.

However, if JW was the guilty one, and he just framed DW for the crime, and all DW did was come by for pizza, then it makes sense for them to call out JW. But that is a huge uphill climb and I highly doubt it is true. JMO

 

[Skigirl]

Transcript Ordering Details:
Cost of transcripts (per page): $3.65 for Regular Delivery (30 calendar days for non-appeal and 60 calendar days for appeal), $4.25 for Intermediate Delivery (15 calendar days), $4.85 for Expedite (7 calendar days), $5.15 for Express (3 business days) , $6.06 for Daily (9:00 am following business day), $7.25 for Hourly (Approval Required), $0.90 for Copy (Regular or Expedite Delivery) $1.20 for Copy (Daily Delivery)


http://www.dccourts.gov/internet/globalcontentlocator.jsf

For additional information on ordering transcripts, please call (202) 879-1009. Division staff will assist you.

I'm pretty outraged that in this day and age, 3 business days (which seems more 'intermediate delivery' or at most 'expedite') costs $5.15 per page. Wow, just wow.

But is that for typing up the transcripts? I'm confused about what the difference is between ordering a transcript versus ordering a copy? Maybe once someone orders a transcript (which has to be transcribed from....?????) copies of it cost less. Still, even $.90 a page for copies sounds pretty steep to me when we, the taxpayers, have paid for the trial and the salaries of every person in the courts.

 

[TexMex]

http://www.pdsdc.org/PDS/TrialDivision.aspx

Arthur Ago is Chief of the Trial Division of the DC Public Defender Service

 

[blessedlife]

Music interlude needed :biggrin:

[video=youtube;0kNGnIKUdMI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kNGnIKUdMI[/video]

WOW! One of my all-time favorites.......beautiful.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[facundo]

I got the impression from DW's PRIOR attorney that he might concede he was in the house. There was a statement to the effect that when we knew WHO was in the house and what was going on, we would view DW in a more favorable light. There was another statement to the effect that DW did not want to see the family hurt.

But at the hearing, it seemed as if DW was abandoning that tactic. Even he should know that they have nailed him as a perpetrator....he can style himself as the laid-back merciful perpetrator, or the perpetrator who was distracted and dining on pizza when things got violent...but they have nailed him to this horror.

And as I have posted before, if JW is squeaky clean, he is about the poorest choice DW can make as his alternative perp. JW will have been throughly investigated every which way.

Very, very strange.

I was recently reading about Wint's prior attorneys and ran across one of them saying DW was not in that house. Which makes the pizza defense funnier. He only ate some pizza from the box on the porch even though he doesn't like it.

 

[stmarysmead]

So let's say they did talk by burner and they planned this whole brutal tragedy out together. If so, why did DW's attorney shine the light on JW and try and make him look guilty? Do they want this crime to come to light?

Now I'm going to guess and it's going to be a very subjective answer.

The first reason DW might do it is spite...he's not going to go down alone for this. He's not going to let JW go on with his life while he pays for this crime.

The second reason is really subjective....he might do it because for certain people, like me, there would be a huge transfer of anger from DW to JW. Because we know that SS tried to give JW a helping hand. We know he KNEW that family. And most of all, we know JW knew and spent time with that little boy. Whether it's fair or not, JW and DW would not be "equals" to me in the way I would view this crime. JW's betrayal and what that child suffered, would focus my contempt on JW.

So, he might do it in the thought that "once people found out who was there"...their anger and desire for very harsh punishment would escalate toward The Betrayer and away from him.

That is one reason that comment from the previous Attorney really resonated with me.

 

[BellaVita]

That had been what I was thinking where he - unbound - was killed in response to his breaking free and then because they killed him, they killed everyone else as well though I'm not sure what to make of it now that they've revised the cause of death. Maybe they also revised on whether or not he was unbound at the time just that hasn't been reported as I don't know why SS would voluntarily allow himself to be strangled. The prior description of things made more sense where an unbound SS was hit from behind with a baseball bat, which sounded like SS trying to get away/fight a perp and SS being rabbit hit from behind.

BBM: I'm not sure COD has been revised. It has been reported from early on that SS was beaten, strangled AND stabbed without it being specified what exactly the mortal wounds were, IIRC. Even in the article I'm linking it says:

Owens said a medical examiner determined that Savvas Savopoulos and Figueroa were strangled and beaten.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...31d64c-2cc4-11e5-a5ea-cf74396e59ec_story.html

Either the testimony or the reporting is again sloppy. Nowhere in the article does it say what the COD actually is. It is possible that the strangulation AND the beatings were each fatal in their own right-severe enough to cause death on their own. The COD of VF has always been more murky than the injuries of the others. The testimony alluded to in MSM is extremely vague.

 

[Peliman]

I'm pretty outraged that in this day and age, 3 business days (which seems more 'intermediate delivery' or at most 'expedite' in this day and age) costs $5.15 per page. Wow, just wow.

But is that for typing up the transcripts? I'm confused about what the difference is between ordering a transcript versus ordering a copy? Maybe once someone orders a transcript (which has to be transcribed from....?????) copies of it cost less. Still, even $.90 a page for copies sounds pretty steep to me when we, the taxpayers, have paid for the trial and the salaries of every person in the courts.

I'm not sure about DC. I had a friend in Fla. who was a court reporter who worked for a court reporter service which was independent of the court. On his machine I think he said he could do 340-360 WPM and sometimes he'd work weekends transcribing to send to a typist. I imagine once it's typed it just needs scanned or copied but the report belonged to the court reporting service which I believe was separate from the court. IMO

 

[rkf]

I'm pretty outraged that in this day and age, 3 business days (which seems more 'intermediate delivery' or at most 'expedite' in this day and age) costs $5.15 per page. Wow, just wow.

But is that for typing up the transcripts? I'm confused about what the difference is between ordering a transcript versus ordering a copy? Maybe once someone orders a transcript (which has to be transcribed from....?????) copies of it cost less. Still, even $.90 a page for copies sounds pretty steep to me when we, the taxpayers, have paid for the trial and the salaries of every person in the courts.

Well, to be fair, since you have to go into the courthouse to order the transcript in person, you are actually paying for the eye-rolling, huffing, foot-stomping and generally bad attitude that comes with requesting anything from the DC government. So you're not just paying for the copies, you're paying for the show. Oh, and you'll need to pay for parking and if you overstay the meter, that's another $25.