DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #19

[Crosscntrymom]

Was also considering whether DW was alone or was only the pizza-eating, go check on the money guy. But IF so, and DW checked on the money, and came back to find the other perp hurting the family (lawyer's statement DW never intended to hurt anyone), where is DNA? And did they leave with DW in the Porsche? Surely they would have left behind evidence in house and car. Why no additional arrests?

 

[BondGirl]

So he lied when he posted that he drove the race car, even though he was FB friends with SS, SA and PS?

Maybe. Didn't he also post about SS wanting a real race car drivers opinion? I doubt SS needed his opinion. I don't think he was even coaching PS at that point. Giving an acquaintance a chance to take a $70k car for a spin is one thing, giving them a chance at a $200 - 700 k vehicle is another. I bet SS let him go for a ride with SS driving.

AS and SS had a lot of friends. I'm sure they didn't all drive the Mosler. A few may have been taken for a ride in it.

 

[BondGirl]

Was also considering whether DW was alone or was only the pizza-eating, go check on the money guy. But IF so, and DW checked on the money, and came back to find the other perp hurting the family (lawyer's statement DW never intended to hurt anyone), where is DNA? And did they leave with DW in the Porsche? Surely they would have left behind evidence in house and car. Why no additional arrests?

There is still that water bottle and hundreds of other pieces of evidence so I wouldn't be surprised if other DNA was found and maybe that's why LE thinks more people are involved.

 

[Millhouse]

Was also considering whether DW was alone or was only the pizza-eating, go check on the money guy. But IF so, and DW checked on the money, and came back to find the other perp hurting the family (lawyer's statement DW never intended to hurt anyone), where is DNA? And did they leave with DW in the Porsche? Surely they would have left behind evidence in house and car. Why no additional arrests?

I think that statement that he never intended to hurt anyone was from the lawyer he got rid of: http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-murder-suspects-lawyer-fired-wint-intended-harm/story?id=32194209

That statement bothers me a bit. It seems like they were kind of admitting DW was there but never intended to hurt anyone. I don't like the statement because it sounds like it could be blaming the people that ended up hurt- like oh, *I* didn't want to hurt them, but then they screamed, or there wasn't enough money, or whatever hypothetically might have happened.

It sounds like there is DNA evidence on some other items that has not been tested yet, and an unknown 3rd person's DNA on the vest. If there was another perp, he was at least a little bit brighter and didn't leave his DNA on pizza!

ETA: maybe other DNA samples have been found places, but they weren't in the system like DW was.

 

[jjenny]

Was also considering whether DW was alone or was only the pizza-eating, go check on the money guy. But IF so, and DW checked on the money, and came back to find the other perp hurting the family (lawyer's statement DW never intended to hurt anyone), where is DNA? And did they leave with DW in the Porsche? Surely they would have left behind evidence in house and car. Why no additional arrests?

DW used to work for SS's company so SS knew him. As such, how would it be possible for DW to be there and not intend to hurt anyone?

 

[AmazonianAbroad]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-final-days-of-mosler-one-supercar-left-to-move-company-for-sale/
Wagner is more upbeat on his old boss. He says he loved working on the cars but said Mosler’s “lack of advertising” and insistence on using Corvette taillamps turned away potential customers, who thought the MT900S was a kit.

“The unfortunate thing is that the potential is so huge. So much work went into the engineering up front,” Wagner said. “All the materials were the most expensive and top-tier stuff anywhere. Everything. Ev-ery-thing. It had everything except that last exoticness.”

The frustration continued throughout Wagner’s seven years to the point where he couldn’t use the word “exotic” when describing the car, he said.

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Interesting article on the Moslers and why the company folded.

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk

Mosler's story is an interesting one. He seems to be a high energy super intellect, and an unabashed dilettante. The car thing almost comes across like a tinkerer's hobby once you read enough about him.

Some people say his cars were ugly, that his speed tests were rigged, that they were produced in such limited numbers that they weren't "production" automobiles. But using Corvette parts when he employed one of the main Corvette design engineers seems an ode of sorts to me.

I like the guy's story. I am fascinated by the probable overlapping interests with SS in engineering, cars and likely the Greek economic crisis. I'd have loved sitting at a table with those two at a fundraising dinner.

 

[jjenny]

Not only when the money came, but also the night before when pizza got delivered, and earlier Thursday morning when VF's husband came to the house. That's a few times where the victims may have been alone if only DW was there.

If they were all restrained, maybe this is less of a risk. Who knows what state he had them in- mouths could have been taped, etc. And if PS was in another room, maybe threats of further hurting him kept people in place like you said. If they all thought they'd be getting out alive once the money came, maybe they were highly motivated to stay quiet.

Duct tape was used to tie up the victims. As such, they could have been left alone for short periods of time. If DW had accomplices, how did DW ended up with vast majority of the money? What did accomplices do it for?
There is only about 8 k not accounted for, which DW could have easily spend while on the run.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

Ah, hadn't considered the way you interpreted the lawyer statement. I thought that the lawyer knew LE had enough to place DW at the scene, but was trying to shift the responsibility to another perp who was there.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

Had a doctor tell me once "when u hear hoofbeats, look for a horse, not a zebra." Usually the simplest explanation is best. So if trying to concoct a scenario that places DW there but without culpability requires too much fanciful thinking, then the simpler explanation of him being the sole perp is likely to be more accurate, I suppose.

 

[jjenny]

Had a doctor tell me once "when u hear hoofbeats, look for a horse, not a zebra." Usually the simplest explanation is best. So if trying to concoct a scenario that places DW there but without culpability requires too much fanciful thinking, then the simpler explanation of him being the sole perp is likely to be more accurate, I suppose.

So far we know that DW ended up with vast majority of the money. Any accomplice presumably would have wanted an equal cut.
Only one guy was seen driving away in Porsche wearing green vest (at least witness only described one guy).
Two pizzas were ordered, only 3/4 of one eaten (again, doesn't point to may accomplices). Domono's pizzas are not very large.
Only one guy is seen running away in the video.
So that doesn't point to a lot of accomplices (or any, really).
Police claim they think more people were involved (because of the number of the victims) but haven't got any evidence to support this idea.

 

[Millhouse]

Duct tape was used to tie up the victims. As such, they could have been left alone for short periods of time. If DW had accomplices, how did DW ended up with vast majority of the money? What did accomplices do it for?
There is only about 8 k not accounted for, which DW could have easily spend while on the run.

JMO: I am not convinced there was a second perp. I won't be surprised either way at this point, but I really do think this could have been done by one person. It seems like DW didn't enter a house with 4 people- he entered a house with maybe 3 people, lured others home, and restrained people.

 

[stmarysmead]

I'm hung up on the horrific injuries to the victims, the burning the child alive, and the amount of time spent in the house. This is hard to explain, but the injuries seem like ones that indicate rage or a drug high. But the crime went on so long, I can't understand how either rage or that high could be sustained for so long.

Considering that the victims were restrained, what accounts for the escalation to torture? If DW was there for money, he has everyone under control, how many times would he have to hurt PS or AS to have SS doing anything at all that he wanted? On AS Facebook page, if you look under "family", you'll see that she jokingly lists SS as "Mother." He must have been very protective of his much loved wife. It would not take much to have SS completely under control IMO.

I understand that perps kill to destroy evidence, but this was overkill and torture. Even in the awful crime in Connecticut, the fire was set to destoy evidence but the victims were not knifed, beaten with bats, cut with swords, strangled etc before that fire was set. It's like the killer or killers in THIS case just could not find enough ways to kill these people.

I understand there was a job loss, but guys like DW lose jobs all the time. His entire Facebook page contained more "working at self-employed" individuals then ones who had steady jobs.

As for SS and DW "knowing each other", my husband ran a company of this size and there is no way he would know every welder etc. and some would never have even had face-to-face contact with him.

This crime seems so full of hate, on such a personal level. If you assume, once the money was delivered, the object is to burn evidence and get away...why do we have all this time spent over-killing each victim? Time is valuable to any perp, why waste it?

I can't get the thought out of my head, that the torture was "sport" of some kind. That there was a group of people, showing off to each other, laughing, proving how macho they were with their displays of brutality.

But one person, running back and forth, clubbing, stabbing, strangling this one but not that one, doing all this overkill after hours with subdued victims had passed....no, I can't see that.

Only my opinion, as ever.

 

[BondGirl]

DW used to work for SS's company so SS knew him. As such, how would it be possible for DW to be there and not intend to hurt anyone?

He was an employee years ago and who knows if he was an off site employee. Does anyone know how many employees the company had. I'm just thinking Orioles Stadium and other huge projects would need a ton of welders and workers. DW wouldn't have been in the Executive suite.

 

[jjenny]

He was an employee years ago and who knows if he was an off site employee. Does anyone know how many employees the company had. I'm just thinking Orioles Stadium and other huge projects would need a ton of welders and workers. DW wouldn't have been in the Executive suite.

It's not a very large company. One of DW's lawyers (can't remember which one, could have been Ficker) claimed DW knew SS (but not AS) so presumably DW and SS at least seen each other on occasion.

 

[BondGirl]

I'm hung up on the horrific injuries to the victims, the burning the child alive, and the amount of time spent in the house. This is hard to explain, but the injuries seem like ones that indicate rage or a drug high. But the crime went on so long, I can't understand how either rage or that high could be sustained for so long.

Considering that the victims were restrained, what accounts for the escalation to torture? If DW was there for money, he has everyone under control, how many times would he have to hurt PS or AS to have SS doing anything at all that he wanted? On AS Facebook page, if you look under "family", you'll see that she jokingly lists SS as "Mother." He must have been very protective of his much loved wife. It would not take much to have SS completely under control IMO.

I understand that perps kill to destroy evidence, but this was overkill and torture. Even in the awful crime in Connecticut, the fire was set to destoy evidence but the victims were not knifed, beaten with bats, cut with swords, strangled etc before that fire was set. It's like the killer or killers in THIS case just could not find enough ways to kill these people.

I understand there was a job loss, but guys like DW lose jobs all the time. His entire Facebook page contained more "working at self-employed" individuals then ones who had steady jobs.

As for SS and DW "knowing each other", my husband ran a company of this size and there is no way he would know every welder etc. and some would never have even had face-to-face contact with him.

This crime seems so full of hate, on such a personal level. If you assume, once the money was delivered, the object is to burn evidence and get away...why do we have all this time spent over-killing each victim? Time is valuable to any perp, why waste it?

I can't get the thought out of my head, that the torture was "sport" of some kind. That there was a group of people, showing off to each other, laughing, proving how macho they were with their displays of brutality.

But one person, running back and forth, clubbing, stabbing, strangling this one but not that one, doing all this overkill after hours with subdued victims had passed....no, I can't see that.

Only my opinion, as ever.

Great post! I completely agree!

 

[jjenny]

Great post! I completely agree!

How did this group of people leave the house (only one guy seen driving the Porsche)? Only one guy seen running away in the video.
Why did this group of people let DW keep most of the money?
Why didn't they eat the second pizza (even the first one wasn't finished)?
It doesn't add up for one second.

 

[stmarysmead]

It's not a very large company. One of DW's lawyers (can't remember which one, could have been Ficker) claimed DW knew SS (but not AS) so presumably DW and SS at least seen each other on occasion.

The CEO of the company would not be firing a welder. There would be layers, even in a small company, between the two. The decision to fire would come up the ranks from the welder's immediate boss, and then, HIS boss. It's not the Superintendent of schools who gives our kid detention. There are lots of people close up...to blame before him.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

Stmarysmead I am with you in struggling to piece all that together as you described.

Here's another scenario: someone in an organized crime ring had a grudge against SS because of work (contracts lost? Encroaching on business?) and this was a hit. Hire DW as lacky to sit around as lookout, pay him $40k and the Porsche to hang out. Too implausible?

 

[Skigirl]

The thing about the Mosler is that you cannot easily give it a price, because it is a super car collectors' automobile. They aren't mass produced, and collectors are appreciating their looks more now than in the past. I'd guess at auction it could vary by $100s of thousands, depending on interest that specific day. A Bentley is a car, a Mosler is more like an art piece. The low end estimate that's cropped up on the Mosler is a couple-hundred thousand.

It would be an affected esthetic for someone not into cars to drive that car, so, I'm going to speculate that it will be at auction soon, or quietly acquired by a Sultan or something and shipped to a far away land.

ITA with everything above and would add that the relevant thing is not what the car is worth at auction, but what JW THOUGHT the car was worth.

 

[jjenny]

Stmarysmead I am with you in struggling to piece all that together as you described.

Here's another scenario: someone in an organized crime ring had a grudge against SS because of work (contracts lost? Encroaching on business?) and this was a hit. Hire DW as lacky to sit around as lookout, pay him $40k and the Porsche to hang out. Too implausible?

Hang out for what? DW wasn't paid 40 k. 40 k was ransom money. If DW was paid by somebody (hired hit) why would he stay in the house overnight?