DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #19

[jjenny]

ITA with everything above and would add that the relevant thing is not what the car is worth at auction, but what JW THOUGHT the car was worth.

Mosler wasn't stolen. If the goal was to take the car, why wasn't it taken? The only car taken was burned to the crisp.
And how would someone sell a unique car that is connected to multiple murders?
Seriously, sounds like Mosler himself couldn't even sell the last car he had.
Why in the world would someone buy a car connected to multiple homicides?

 

[Skigirl]

DW used to work for SS's company so SS knew him. As such, how would it be possible for DW to be there and not intend to hurt anyone?

I think it's possible that the CEO of the company did not know all of the welders personally or even by sight. A welder would likely have been on-site rather than in the company headquarters.

 

[jjenny]

The CEO of the company would not be firing a welder. There would be layers, even in a small company, between the two. The decision to fire would come up the ranks from the welder's immediate boss, and then, HIS boss. It's not the Superintendent of schools who gives our kid detention. There are lots of people close up...to blame before him.

Maybe these other people didn't have as much money.

 

[BellaVita]

Stabbing is mutilation enough. :/

ETA: we know he was used as a means of controlling the adults, it's probable that he was cut during the 18 hours. Mutilation doesn't have to be made to sound worse than it was. I also see no reason for msm to not report something because it's distasteful to some. That doesn't happen. Maybe it was *allegedly* only reported the one time because it was found out to be untrue.

I see this happen not only in comments to articles, but it's happened in other forums that random brand new posters pop in to post unsubstantiated and purposefully inflammatory items to suit their agenda. Those posters are shut down pretty quickly on reputable sites, but comments on outside articles or blogs remain to taint people's opinion. Commenters outside of here post some seriously weird things that sound like little kids excitedly telling stories (fibbing) all big-eyed and watching to see reactions. Creeps.

IDK. Mutilation is a pretty strong word. A different word from torture even. The posts that I saw were believable, IMO. Not necessarily true but they sounded sincere. I believe that the posters DID hear that info. It may have been true or not. Also, the media often does not dwell on truly awful things. Maybe a representative for the S family asked media not to repeat the info. In most MSM AS injuries were reported as lacerations but a few MSM articles were much more descriptive. I think DW, and if there were others involved, wanted to terrorize SS. A lot of people say the focus was PS but I don't think I agree. He was a means to an end, IMO. This crime was so sick, it's beyond comprehension

 

[stmarysmead]

How did this group of people leave the house (only one guy seen driving the Porsche)? Only one guy seen running away in the video.
Why did this group of people let DW keep most of the money?
Why didn't they eat the second pizza (even the first one wasn't finished)?
It doesn't add up for one second.

I'm not sure the whole group was there the whole time. They were in control of the house. If they came in a vehicle, no reason that some could not have come and gone, in that vehicle.

The amount of pizza eaten is not an indicator to me, because I'm sure the family had plenty of food in the house.

As for the money, I'm just not sure that the friends found with DW and the money were creating money orders, and riding around with thousands in cash, all with only neighborly altruistic motives. We are not even sure at this point how much money AND DISPOSABLE valuables were stolen. Supposedly, DW did not take all the money to NYC because his friends were helping him create money orders.

Now that takes a lot of trust...to hand off big money to friends and leave town.

Do we even know that DW himself had the money. I think we only know that the group in the car/truck convoy had the money and conveniently blamed it on the one person whose DNA nailed him to police.

"Oh this is HIS money, Officier, we were just giving. him a ride in these two vehicles."


Y

 

[Crosscntrymom]

And if the $40k was a red herring meant to make it seem like a robbery?

But you're right--I think it just takes too much explaining to let DW off the hook for any responsibility. And so far we have no evidence of a second perp. Thanks for helping me think it through!

 

[Skigirl]

He was an employee years ago and who knows if he was an off site employee. Does anyone know how many employees the company had. I'm just thinking Orioles Stadium and other huge projects would need a ton of welders and workers. DW wouldn't have been in the Executive suite.

I've seen it listed as 65-100 employees in tax records, but don't know whether that included laborers who may have been hired for specific jobs on an as-needed basis. That said, the company had relatively small revenue, so to the extent that they worked on huge jobs, they could have had a very small piece of the overall project. They did not act as the general contractor on the Verizon Center (then the MCI center). They were one of many subcontractors.

 

[jjenny]

17K was in the car with Wint. 13 K was in the truck.

http://wtop.com/dc/2015/07/dc-quadruple-murder-suspect-due-court/

 

[BellaVita]

Asking a forensic question: does that mean either would have caused his death or can it mean the two together caused his death? It seems to me, as it was described, the thermal injuries would have killed him without the sharp instrument injuries. If not for the fire, would the injuries still have killed him? Wondering the same kind of thing about the others - would VF have died from blunt force injuries if she hadn't been strangled and vice versa?

I think we'd have to read the actual autopsy report in order to be completely accurate. I've seen coroners testify where they've said the victim would have died from just the one injury by itself. In PS case, the fire obviously killed him but I believe from the wording, if the fire hadn't been set, he would have died from the stabbing too. IMO. Hard to tell from the reporting though because it's very vague.

 

[Skigirl]

Stmarysmead I am with you in struggling to piece all that together as you described.

Here's another scenario: someone in an organized crime ring had a grudge against SS because of work (contracts lost? Encroaching on business?) and this was a hit. Hire DW as lacky to sit around as lookout, pay him $40k and the Porsche to hang out. Too implausible?

Not at all too much of a stretch. I've been wondering about similar things, but unfortunately the TOS don't allow us to "sleuth" anyone who hasn't been named as a person of interest. I would be surprised if DW just spontaneously woke up one morning and thought, "Self, I'm going to find and rob the guy who owned that company I was fired from 10 years ago, and while I'm at it, murder everyone at his house," so I agree that there was probably some sort of precipitating event or interaction, but what it was, I can only guess .

 

[jjenny]

Not at all to much of a stretch. I've been wondering about similar things, but unfortunately the TOS don't allow us to "sleuth" anyone who hasn't been named as a person of interest. I would be surprised if DW just spontaneously woke up one morning and thought, "Self, I'm going to find and rob the guy who owned that company I was fired from 10 years ago, and while I'm at it, murder everyone at his house," so I agree that there was probably some sort of precipitating event or interaction, but what it was, I can only guess .

But not too much a stretch to think someone would hire a guy who worked for a company 10 years ago to do away with the family?
What are his qualifications to be a hired hit?
Why would he need ransom money if someone paid him?
And he didn't even have a gun. What kind of hired hit doesn't even have a gun?

 

[BellaVita]

I think they know what time the crime tape was put up (and a police car was stationed there) and they know what time he came back to the car and told LE that was his car. I haven't seen it reported the way you described it - rather the implication is that he parked as close as he could before the tape went up and by the time he came back to his car, the tape had been up for hours. JMO

I think the neon green car would have stood out like a sore thumb there. I'm sure police ran the plates rather quickly.

 

[Skigirl]

I'm not sure the whole group was there the whole time. They were in control of the house. If they came in a vehicle, no reason that some could not have come and gone, in that vehicle.

The amount of pizza eaten is not an indicator to me, because I'm sure the family had plenty of food in the house.

As for the money, I'm just not sure that the friends found with DW and the money were creating money orders, and riding around with thousands in cash, all with only neighborly altruistic motives. We are not even sure at this point how much money AND DISPOSABLE valuables were stolen. Supposedly, DW did not take all the money to NYC because his friends were helping him create money orders.

Now that takes a lot of trust...to hand off big money to friends and leave town.

Do we even know that DW himself had the money. I think we only know that the group in the car/truck convoy had the money and conveniently blamed it on the one person whose DNA nailed him to police.

"Oh this is HIS money, Officier, we were just giving. him a ride in these two vehicles."


Y

I have to wonder if some of the money was from other crimes. It seems unlikely to me that this was DW's only "venture," rather his most notorious and bloodiest.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not sure the whole group was there the whole time. They were in control of the house. If they came in a vehicle, no reason that some could not have come and gone, in that vehicle.

The amount of pizza eaten is not an indicator to me, because I'm sure the family had plenty of food in the house.

As for the money, I'm just not sure that the friends found with DW and the money were creating money orders, and riding around with thousands in cash, all with only neighborly altruistic motives. We are not even sure at this point how much money AND DISPOSABLE valuables were stolen. Supposedly, DW did not take all the money to NYC because his friends were helping him create money orders.

Now that takes a lot of trust...to hand off big money to friends and leave town.

Do we even know that DW himself had the money. I think we only know that the group in the car/truck convoy had the money and conveniently blamed it on the one person whose DNA nailed him to police.

"Oh this is HIS money, Officier, we were just giving. him a ride in these two vehicles."


Y

Lots of good questions in this post and other posts this morning.

One related, but maybe not directly related, question I have: They seemingly have not been able to get security footage from the home. However, it initially sounded like people thought there would be lots of cameras on neighboring homes or on the street. If there was a group or multiple cars that came and left at odd times, do we think police were able to get this information from other cameras? Or, on the other hand, have these cameras not provided any useful information since they are still relying on eyewitness testimony for who was driving the Porsche away from the house?

It's a real shame if a neighborhood with that many security cameras can't produce any useful information on this type of thing...

 

[Crosscntrymom]

IF it was a hit, I would guess DW was only there to be the fall guy, not the actual perp. I'm trying to imagine what hoops the defense would have to jump through to make that believable.

It bothers me that LE suggested multiple perps because that leaves room for reasonable doubt. Why would they publicly state that if only a hunch?

 

[jjenny]

IF it was a hit, I would guess DW was only there to be the fall guy, not the actual perp. I'm trying to imagine what hoops the defense would have to jump through to make that believable.

It bothers me that LE suggested multiple perps because that leaves room for reasonable doubt. Why would they publicly state that if only a hunch?

If there were other perps in addition to DW, it doesn't let DW off the hook.

 

[BellaVita]

Details about the damage and mutilation including rape done to infants is reported by MSM when it happens. Why would that be any better or worse? You know what I mean. MSM isn't accurate on so many things, why would they care about squeamish readers in some cases, but not others. All things being equal.

I can think of some reasons. This case could stir up debate that MSM does not want to address. Immigration policy is one. There could be more. IMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

But not too much a stretch to think someone would hire a guy who worked for a company 10 years ago to do away with the family?
What are his qualifications to be a hired hit?
Why would he need ransom money if someone paid him?
And he didn't even have a gun. What kind of hired hit doesn't even have a gun?

This is where JW comes into the picture for me. Unlike others, I can see DW and JW moving in interesting circles. They both come from "nice" families, hard working Dads, and lived in the suburbs, not some housing project. They both loved cars and there is some odd connection for a period of time with family addresses.

I don't think anyone would "hire" DW...but someone might think he's a guy who could be approached to help him pull off a robbery of his rich new boss...who refuses to fund his racing career but is wasting money on his own 10yr old kid.

It may be that until LE finds more evidence from the house against the posse in the car and truck, they have to take their word that the money was all DW's. But that does not mean it was. We don't even know, except from THEM, where that money was actually located...since the murders...until,they were caught.

Where were they headed with all that money? Why the convoy?

Do we know where JW was from 6PM on the first night of the crime? Have the police announced that those hours are accounted for?

 

[stmarysmead]

I can think of some reasons. This case could stir up debate that MSM does not want to address. Immigration policy is one. There could be more. IMO.

Agreed. I made a post to this point in the very first thread. The media has metanarratives that drive what news they select to have high profile coverage. They will link up similar crimes in the Outback of Austalia that one would otherwise never hear of...in order to expand and promote "a teaching moment."

Whether one approves or disapproves, it's easy after awhile to see what the Media is doing. This heinous crime fits no current popular media metanarrative. I expect the eventual trial to simply be covered under local D.C.news.

 

[AmazonianAbroad]

Lots of good questions in this post and other posts this morning.

One related, but maybe not directly related, question I have: They seemingly have not been able to get security footage from the home. However, it initially sounded like people thought there would be lots of cameras on neighboring homes or on the street. If there was a group or multiple cars that came and left at odd times, do we think police were able to get this information from other cameras? Or, on the other hand, have these cameras not provided any useful information since they are still relying on eyewitness testimony for who was driving the Porsche away from the house?

It's a real shame if a neighborhood with that many security cameras can't produce any useful information on this type of thing...

I'm going to share by best guesses about video.

First, it is important to remember that LE is keeping a close hold on information related to this case. The federal agency that would be working with the embassy would be particularly sensitive to an embassy's desire for discretion. DNA possibly, and other forensic evidence, it seems is being processed from the fire scene by another federal agency that is keeping quiet. Chief Lanier seems to have marching orders in place for her troops.

People have big expectations of the neighborhood cameras, and frankly that baffles me. Where do you point your cameras when you set up a home security system? One answer that makes no sense is "the street" and another is "my neighbor's place." There may be incidental image captures from surrounding property, or dash cam drive-by's, but I would be pretty surprised if there was much meaningful. Of course, the video most likely to be helpful would have been the SS security system's. There aren't ATMs or retail shop display windows with cameras right there.