DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[kammiemc]

I can only speak for how I Know I would have behaved in that situation. First, I'd be horrified and frightened. I realize people are different, but having been in a similar situation (no murder, no arson but crime scene taped off), I went to the first uniformed person who looked like they'd be the nicest person or least likely to bite my head off (some really look hardass just standing there and that intimidates me). Everything was fine for me. In this case, I would approach an officer who is not occupied or busy and tell them my of my relationship to the homeowner and what happened that morning because I had been there. The officer would contact his superior or the watch commander who would then determine whether to take my contact information and brief story and let me go or to have me wait there and be taken to the station for a more in-depth interview.

But, that's me. First, it would never occur to me to leave without saying anything to anyone because it's an extraordinary circumstance and I was involved however innocently. Secondly, I'd be a freaking nervous guilty-feeling wreck waiting for someone from LE to discover I'd been there for an errand in the morning, visited the scene during the fire and LE activity and said nothing because I KNOW at some point, they'd know I had been there and want to know why I didn't tell anyone.

I realize that goes against advice of volunteer nothing without benefit of legal representation, but I'd still do it. I can't handle suspense of any sort. I'd want to unburden as soon as possible and deal with what happens as it happens. For me, that's infinitely less stressful than waiting for that shoe to drop.

I would do this because it makes sense to me. I don't care if I didn't know a murder had been committed, I'd know that I was given a task by my boss to do something unusual and I did it. A few hours later, I'm informed that the boss's home is on fire. I go there to see what's going on or if I can help in some way. I then see or hear about bodies being taken out of the house. Hell yeah, I'd talk to an officer there.

I'd talk to an officer if there were no bodies being removed if it was just a simple fire. "Officer: what happened? I work for Mr. S and ran an errand for him this morning to drop something off at his house. I just got a call that his house was on fire and came to see if things were okay." And then, things would proceed from there.

And I absolutely don't believe that his car was there "for hours" as stated in that article that deliberately smushed together information to make it appear to be something it wasn't. It could have been a matter of minutes when he arrived, got out of the car to get closer on foot, came back to the car and it was taped off. At that time, police didn't know it wasn't a neighbor's car - it was just there.

Thanks for saying where the "hours" reference came from (although is pretty harsh, FL! :smile I was looking at the transcript and couldn't find it. Perhaps it wasn't hours at all. Maybe it was just enough time for LE to extend their tape around J-dubs' car and he was like, "say wha?!"

 

[katydid23]

I've pasted below the part of the transcipt that I think led me to assume that JW's car was kept for searching reasons. They decided to keep it before he left for his interview. But it is totally possible that they just moved the crime scene tape to include JW's car earlier without knowing that it belonged to him. If I recall, I think some people were speculating that that car might stand out in that neighborhood, so maybe they looked it up and chose to tape it off. Maybe not.

Q All right, let's jump back to W-1, why was W-1
transported down to the police station as opposed to driving
himself?
A Because his vehicle was seized as evidence, and he
was questioned at the police station.

When I read that it makes me think that JW told them on scene that he dropped $ off that morning. Why else would they seize the car right then?

 

[kammiemc]

You would do the same thing I would do. But I am an older white lady. I think a young black urban male might be a lot more cautious than you or I would. JMO

I think this is a really good point and one that I've been thinking about. JW looks black or asian or a combination, like so many of us are. He actually might have felt scared. That would be terrible and hasn't been stated. Although, that wouldn't have precluded him from accurately relaying the events in the interview that Owens conveniently didn't watch.

 

[kammiemc]

I agree with you. The entire street was taped in. I don't think they had any idea whose green car that was yet. JMO

Totally could have been coincidence that JW's car was the last car taped in! Last to arrive. I know some people have said that his car would stand out enough that LE might inquire about it electronically and connect it to the person they knew as SS's assistant. I think that is possible as well.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Thanks for saying where the "hours" reference came from (although is pretty harsh, FL! :smile I was looking at the transcript and couldn't find it. Perhaps it wasn't hours at all. Maybe it was just enough time for LE to extend their tape around J-dubs' car and he was like, "say wha?!"

Yeah, it was an all-encompassing remark, but I stand by my opinion, lol. I don't have a problem throwing the baby out with the bathwater because I (obviously) dislike sensationalism and deliberately misleading statements.

"Returned to the scene of the crime" raised my hackles.

 

[kammiemc]

When I read that it makes me think that JW told them on scene that he dropped $ off that morning. Why else would they seize the car right then?

Good point!

 

[katydid23]

When I think about it, it is kind of revealing the way Det Owens explained JW's meeting with LE. What he didnt say was that JW came to them and asked for his green BMW and LE said to him ===" There YOU are, we have been looking for you!"

It leads me to believe they had no idea whose car it was, who he was, or what happened at all that morning.

 

[khaki]

Does anybody know a Winfield defendant is?

I had wondered about this too tambo. But, important disclaimer first: I am not an attorney, nor am I qualified in any way to speak to this question with authority.

Anyway, as pinkandgreenmom so succinctly explained in post #61 of this thread...it seems it relates to the SODDI defense...the some other dude did it defense.

In the context which BACH used it,

"MS. BACH(prosecutor): Now, what I intend to ask this detective on redirect is have you confirmed his whereabouts? Yes, but I don't think that he needs to specify for the defense exactly how we have confirmed that. They're (sic) Winfield defendant, if that's what he is, is not truly a Winfield defendant. So my point is even if W-1 is completely involved in this, that doesn't rule out the defendant. And so we think this goes beyond the probable cause finding that this Court needs to make and we think that they're just trying to learn basically the steps that we've taken thus far in the investigation to prove W-1's credibility."

I think she’s saying JW, or anyone else for that matter, cannot truly be a Winfield defendant, because the state believes DW is guilty of the crime, and that even if JW was in on it, it does not negate DW’s role.

hope that helped

 

[kammiemc]

When I think about it, it is kind of revealing the way Det Owens explained JW's meeting with LE. What he didnt say was that JW came to them and asked for his green BMW and LE said to him ===" There YOU are, we have been looking for you!"

It leads me to believe they had no idea whose car it was, who he was, or what happened at all that morning.

You could totally be right! Thank you for making a smart argument! Although I think they could've been aware of JW because they knew instantly it was homicide and started researching everything. I think LE would have been running the licenses of every car in the vicinity.

 

[katydid23]

Totally could have been coincidence that JW's car was the last car taped in! Last to arrive. I know some people have said that his car would stand out enough that LE might inquire about it electronically and connect it to the person they knew as SS's assistant. I think that is possible as well.

I think it was way too early for anything like that. I watch a lot of 'The First 48's' :blush: And the detectives are just getting their bearings when the crime scene tape is going up. Unless there is a crazy ex-bf that stole the victims car and sped away in front of the neighbors, they usually have no clue what is up at the very start of their visit to the crime scene.

We know that JW did identify himself and ask for his car. But since they towed it, he must have told them that he dropped some cash off there that morning. JMO

 

[blessedlife]

There was a previous reminder about food talk in this thread. Seriously folks, you want to discuss food and recipes, please take it to a more appropriate forum.

:tyou:

Sorry......I think I'm responsible . [emoji53]


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[katydid23]

You could totally be right! Thank you for making a smart argument! Although I think they could've been aware of JW because they knew instantly it was homicide and started researching everything. I think LE would have been running the licenses of every car in the vicinity.

But it was so early in the investigation. They had bigger things to do at the very beginning. They immediately canvas the neighbors for witnesses, and do the forensics on the scene. JW was not an immediate priority like on scene witnesses would be. He is an employee that is going to be there for questioning when the get to that step of the process.

 

[blessedlife]

Because he left the scene and returned asking for his car. Are you saying that there was a previous interaction with LE at the scene before he left?


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From what I recall from the transcript and Det Owens testimony, he went with the police to the station at that moment.....not later. He left the scene with police to the station. When he returned......he, of course, needed his car. Page 19 and 20 of the transcript. Can't figure out how to copy parts of the transcript. Anyway, JW was transported "from" the scene to the station.


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[blessedlife]

When I think about it, it is kind of revealing the way Det Owens explained JW's meeting with LE. What he didnt say was that JW came to them and asked for his green BMW and LE said to him ===" There YOU are, we have been looking for you!"

It leads me to believe they had no idea whose car it was, who he was, or what happened at all that morning.

You are absolutely right according to the transcript. JW's car was behind the tape only because it "happened" to be there when the tape went up.....NOT because it was his car. They had no idea whose car it was and there were other cars as well. The only caveat being, once LE knew it was his car and the connection.......no one was allowed in it. LE knew of his connection because "JW" told them "on the scene".


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[AmazonianAbroad]

You are absolutely right according to the transcript. JW's car was behind the tape only because it "happened" to be there when the tape went up.....NOT because it was his car. They had no idea whose car it was and there were other cars as well. The only caveat being, once LE knew it was his car and the connection.......no one was allowed in it. LE knew of his connection because "JW" told them "on the scene".

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Were I a trained investigator at the scene, responsible for putting up the tape, I might have decided it was worth including the car that was out of place with tags issued in a different county. That wouldn't be extra work, or be a monumental decision to make. It would be sensible and second nature to give the car a look, I'd think. Now, if a uniformed beat-cop put it up, since they have a different focus and different training, the tape's inclusion of the car suggests nothing to me.

 

[blessedlife]

I think this is a really good point and one that I've been thinking about. JW looks black or asian or a combination, like so many of us are. He actually might have felt scared. That would be terrible and hasn't been stated. Although, that wouldn't have precluded him from accurately relaying the events in the interview that Owens conveniently didn't watch.

Yea, Detective Owens. Hmmm, I'm hoping (based on his limited testimony and oversight or recollection) that I'm never murdered and bankin' on him to find my killer. Maybe his "lack of recall" about who, what, when and where was some sort of strategic planning by the prosecutor (as has been suggested) but that feels a bit shady to me. I really look for transparency, and lots of it, when talking about law enforcement. I come from a family of law enforcement.....high ranking. So, I'm not banging them nor am I questioning his integrity because he's being fed what the State tells him.......but I'm looking for a guy who speaks what he knows without the state or anyone else leading him where they want to go. I'm off-topic with your original post but wanted to address what was, to me, a hands-off detective in this massacre of a family. Why did they pick him? With such limited recollection of, frankly, yesterday? Strange.


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[AmazonianAbroad]

Yea, Detective Owens. Hmmm, I'm hoping (based on his limited testimony and oversight or recollection) that I'm never murdered and bankin' on him to find my killer. Maybe his "lack of recall" about who, what, when and where was some sort of strategic planning by the prosecutor (as has been suggested) but that feels a bit shady to me. I really look for transparency, and lots of it, when talking about law enforcement. I'm not questioning his integrity because he's being fed what the State tells him.......I'm looking for a guy who speaks what he knows without the state or anyone else leading him where they want to go. I'm off-topic with your original post but wanted to address what was, to me, a hands-off detective in this massacre of a family. Why did they pick him? With such limited recollection of, frankly, yesterday? Strange.


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I think that he showed up for a day in court that did not really require preparation. I suspect that the detective's only job was to answer truthfully, and he was relying on the USA to make the case, and clarify anything the detective muddied. As the case officer, I don't hold him responsible for understanding DNA evidence any more than I expect him to understand how the ME does their job. I also hope that he isn't expected to micromanage everyone working on the investigation, and that he knows who is reliable, and that he does rely on those people when possible. I feel for the person whose job it is to direct this wretched work.

 

[MyBelle]

"I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back."

Unless I am misinterpreting the request, I think he wanted his car back so that he could drive it away, not so that he could stay and have a conversation about the information he had about the day. It doesn't sound like he was hanging around. He left and came back for his car. I am not getting the impression he wanted to hang out. He got out of dodge and he wanted to get his car out of dodge. IMO.

Exactly. He left and came back for his car.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Why park at all if he wasn't going to introduce himself, ask about the family and tell them as much as he knew?? And then why leave without his car?? Odd.

Very odd considering he had just left a voicemail for Amy asking if she was okay and told her the house was on fire.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Yea, Detective Owens. Hmmm, I'm hoping (based on his limited testimony and oversight or recollection) that I'm never murdered and bankin' on him to find my killer. Maybe his "lack of recall" about who, what, when and where was some sort of strategic planning by the prosecutor (as has been suggested) but that feels a bit shady to me. I really look for transparency, and lots of it, when talking about law enforcement. I come from a family of law enforcement.....high ranking. So, I'm not banging them nor am I questioning his integrity because he's being fed what the State tells him.......but I'm looking for a guy who speaks what he knows without the state or anyone else leading him where they want to go. I'm off-topic with your original post but wanted to address what was, to me, a hands-off detective in this massacre of a family. Why did they pick him? With such limited recollection of, frankly, yesterday? Strange.


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Detective Owens was the Prosecution's witness. He accomplished exactly what the Prosecution asked him to do. Perfectly legal and nothing "shady" about it.

JMO