DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[atthelake]

If you look at the early pictures, there is crime scene tape right around the area where the house is. Later that afternoon, LE tweeted that certain roads were closed and those tweets match where we saw the tape in the picture of JW's car. I think it's reasonable to assume the area was made larger at some later time after the bodies were discovered, since by 2:15 or so when JW would have arrived from Chantilly, he was still able to park in the area that was then later taped. That is, unless JW was not in Chantilly when he received the call about the fire and got there much sooner, and there was a delay in DC Police's tweets.

On phone .. can someone repost that photo?

 

[TexMex]

If you look at the early pictures, there is crime scene tape right around the area where the house is. Later that afternoon, LE tweeted that certain roads were closed and those tweets match where we saw the tape in the picture of JW's car. I think it's reasonable to assume the area was made larger at some later time after the bodies were discovered, since by 2:15 or so when JW would have arrived from Chantilly, he was still able to park in the area that was then later taped. That is, unless JW was not in Chantilly when he received the call about the fire and got there much sooner, and there was a delay in DC Police's tweets.

IMO the tape was more for traffic control around the scene. Keep the road blocked off.

 

[Peliman]

Afternoon everyone,

JMO the officer in charge learning of a crime ordered his officers to place crime scene tape at those locations also to keep the area sterile so it won't be contaminated by others tromping around disturbing any evidence that might be about (like a shell casing if a gun were used, cigarette butts, cans, bottles, clothing, trash etc.

Once that tape went up, only authorized personnel was getting in or out of the crime scene lines. If the LE in charge thought they should extend further, so be it.

 

[atthelake]

A week ago somebody did a visual as to the roadblocks and for where the car was. I am on my phone for the next day but does somebody have that available to repost?

 

[kammiemc]

Everyone is welcome to an opinion, but I disagree that "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss say asked him to do. I am keeping my mind open to all possibilities, including random break-in, DW kept a grudge for 10 years and acted alone, DW had help, DW had help from particular people, the contractor had something to do with it, a former business partner or competitor had something to do with it, a disgruntled family member was involved, etc. There is a lot we don't know, and IMHO, we don't know enough to know what all logic dictates. JMO.

I am agreeing with the neuroscientist. There is so much we don't know, including anything that was going on prior to May 13. We don't even know anything about communications. And the PH was not the event where these details would be shared.
Neither Owens nor Bach have said anything at all to indicate that DW acted alone. In fact, to the contrary, Bach said that there is no evidence that only one person committed this crime.
Also, W-3's description of the Porsche driver's hair and look was very specific and totally conflicts with DW's appearance. Could be forgetfulness, but W-3 was interviewed in a timely manner and there is a big chance that the description is accurate.
And there is more than DW's and SS's DNA on the vest.
Based on all this, I am still open to the idea that another or others could have been involved on any of a variety of levels. Could be a high level of involvement or could be as insignificant as they knew DW was talking about SS and might have had some sort of plan brewing. The only thing I'm NOT open to is the idea that DW got set up by others to take the fall murders and had nothing to do with them.
Below is a bit of the transcript that is particularly interesting (the bench convo that got sealed). It is interesting because it makes it seem like LE believes the phones could be somewhere that is not one of the places directly associated with DW, and Bach did not want the information divulged to the defense):

Q Um, the cell phones that were used in this case, the
Savopoulos' cell phones that were used in communications in
this case, those were not recovered from Mr. Wint, his
belongings or homes associated with him?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: The objection is noted but it's
overruled.
You may answer yes or no.
MS. BACH: I would ask to approach.
THE COURT: You may approach.
(Bench conference).
MS. BACH: I'm going to ask --
THE COURT: No, no, you come to the bench. No, no,
Miss Bach, be clear, you don't make speeches in my courtroom,
you say what you've got to say at the bench.
MS. BACH: I'm going to just ask Your Honor for
permission to do this ex parte, if the Court believes it
needs to be disclosed to the defense it's fine but it has to
do with an open search warrant that is about to be executed.
THE COURT: Well --
MS. BACH: And I'm afraid that he's going to end up
-- I don't want him to be in a position where he has to
testify -- I'm worried that he's going to have to -- he's
going to not be able to testify without revealing that search
warrant is what my concern is.
THE COURT: Have the search warrants been executed?
MS. BACH: No, that's the problem.
THE COURT: Okay, so the question is whether or not
the cell phones have been recovered. The cell phones that
were used in communications in this case, those were not
recovered from Mr. Wint, his belongings or -- I can't find
it.
MR. AGO: Homes associated.
THE COURT: And so, okay, I guess -- I guess you
think the answer that he might reveal that he doesn't know?
MS. BACH: It goes beyond that. And that's why I'm
asking for permission to do this.
THE COURT: Well, step back for a minute, counsel,
if I think it's not a subject that's properly ex parte
I'll --
(Defense counsel excused from bench. Ex parte.
Said bench conference is ordered sealed and is not
transcribed herein).
THE COURT: All right, counsel, I'm going to
overrule the objection to the exact question that you asked.
Do you need it repeated by the court reporter?
MR. AGO: No, I think I know it.
THE COURT: Okay. You may come back.
BY MR. AGO:
Q The cell phones that were used in communication in
this case, decedent's cell phones, they were not recovered
from Mr. Wint, his, um, belongings, or the homes that he
stayed at, correct?
A Correct.
MR. AGO: This might draw the same objectionMR. AGO: This might draw the same objection, Your Honor, but I'll ask the question.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Is the cell phones, um, that we've discussed, those
same cell phones, were any of them used on or after May 13th
to call any numbers associated with Mr. Wint?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Sustained

 

[SeesSeas]

Everyone is welcome to an opinion, but I disagree that "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss say asked him to do. I am keeping my mind open to all possibilities, including random break-in, DW kept a grudge for 10 years and acted alone, DW had help, DW had help from particular people, the contractor had something to do with it, a former business partner or competitor had something to do with it, a disgruntled family member was involved, etc. There is a lot we don't know, and IMHO, we don't know enough to know what all logic dictates. JMO.

" "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss asked him to do. "

logic - - as in 'reasonable thinking', per dictionaries:

http://thelawdictionary.org/logic/
[h=1]What is LOGIC?[/h]The science of reasoning, or of the operations of the understanding which are subservient to the estimation of evidence. The term includes both the process itself of proceeding from known truths to unknown, and all other intellectual operations, in so far as auxiliary to this.


http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/logic
[h=3]logic noun http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/help/codes.html (REASONABLE THINKING)[/h]

›​

a particular way of thinking, esp. one that is reasonable andbased on good judgment

 

[kammiemc]

" "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss asked him to do. "

logic - - as in 'reasonable thinking', per dictionaries:

http://thelawdictionary.org/logic/
[h=1]What is LOGIC?[/h]The science of reasoning, or of the operations of the understanding which are subservient to the estimation of evidence. The term includes both the process itself of proceeding from known truths to unknown, and all other intellectual operations, in so far as auxiliary to this.


http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/logic
[h=3]logic noun http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/help/codes.html (REASONABLE THINKING)[/h]

›​

a particular way of thinking, esp. one that is reasonable andbased on good judgment

I don't think I am going out on a limb here to assume that an expert in neuroscience knows the definition of logic.

 

[kammiemc]

Afternoon everyone,

JMO the officer in charge learning of a crime ordered his officers to place crime scene tape at those locations also to keep the area sterile so it won't be contaminated by others tromping around disturbing any evidence that might be about (like a shell casing if a gun were used, cigarette butts, cans, bottles, clothing, trash etc.

Once that tape went up, only authorized personnel was getting in or out of the crime scene lines. If the LE in charge thought they should extend further, so be it.

That's exactly what I would think. They decide where the tape should go, if it should be moved, etc.

 

[SeesSeas]

I don't think I am going out on a limb here to assume that an expert in neuroscience knows the definition of logic.

" "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss asked him to do. "

From information provided in affidavits and the preliminary hearing, for me it is logical to deduce what another poster wrote about JW, "he was just doing what his boss asked him to do."

 

[roverlwb]

If you look at the early pictures, there is crime scene tape right around the area where the house is. Later that afternoon, LE tweeted that certain roads were closed and those tweets match where we saw the tape in the picture of JW's car. I think it's reasonable to assume the area was made larger at some later time after the bodies were discovered, since by 2:15 or so when JW would have arrived from Chantilly, he was still able to park in the area that was then later taped. That is, unless JW was not in Chantilly when he received the call about the fire and got there much sooner, and there was a delay in DC Police's tweets.

Picture of JW's BMW beyond the police tape was entry #511 on thread 19, DC Police tweets timeline was on entry #389 of thread 19.

Last Thursday, I decided to time the most direct route from the dojo to the point on Woodland Dr. where Jw's car was pictured(entry 511). I started at the dojo on Willard Rd. in Chantilly at 1:45pm taking US 50 to VA28 to I66(have I said how I HATE I66?) to the Rock Creek Pkwy to Mass Ave to 30th St to Woodland Dr. parking just north of the intersection of 31st Place and Woodland. Driving at the normal Washington pace in an agile Volvo, the journey took me 68 and a half minutes.

Jump to the day of the murders. Police would have blocked Woodland at 31st Place because the next intersection(Woodland and 32nd)was the fire/crime scene. They would have used a patrol car blocking to divert traffic northbound onto 31st place to Cleveland Ave. and would have been done within 15 minutes of fire and police vehicles arriving at the SS house.

If we are to use the timeline of the fire being reported at 1:24pm, the police blockade of Woodland would have been done by 1:45pm. If JW left the dojo at 1:45pm, he could not arrived at the location where his BMW was pictured until 2:54pm. How did he get the car around the police car blocking the street(and the officer directing traffic) with an active crime scene just a hundred yards up the road?
Note: I also tried the other way to get there via the Beltway into Bethesda then south and it took an hour and twenty minutes without serious traffic problems.)

 

[kammiemc]

From what I recall from the transcript and Det Owens testimony, he went with the police to the station at that moment.....not later. He left the scene with police to the station. When he returned......he, of course, needed his car. Page 19 and 20 of the transcript. Can't figure out how to copy parts of the transcript. Anyway, JW was transported "from" the scene to the station.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't know if you are on a Mac or PC (or if it makes a difference) but if you open the PDF, on the tool bar, you can either click on a hand or an arrow. In arrow mode, you can copy and paste the words, but not in hand mode. (Hopefully that will help!!!)

I totally agree with your impression of Owens. I would hope that a detective would be knowledgeable about details of the case and also share transparently. It seems the whole thing was really strategic. He couldn't be that uninformed, right? In fact, it seemed that the judge made a little joke about how he kept answering that he didn't know things in the bench convo about ex parte.

Here is a part of the transcript where Owens is answering questions re how JW approached LE at the scene. It helped clear up for me that Owens was talking about JW returning PRIOR to being taken to the station. Because he uses the word "return", that seems to imply to me that he had been gone. But who knows for sure.

Here it is:

Q Did W-1 make himself known to the police before he
spoke to the police or did the police have to go out and get
him? In other words, how did the police come across W-1?

A W-1 returned -- W-1 went up to the scene near 31 --
3201 Woodland and he made himself known to the police at that
point.
Q What date and time was this?
A It was the same day, May 14.
Q And do you know the time?
A I don't recall the exact time.
Q And did -- how did W-1 make himself known to the
police? What did he say when he went up to 3201?
A If I remember correctly his car was parked within the police tape and he wanted his car back and he made
himself known to the police at that point.

They then go on to discuss JW going to the station and how no one was allowed into his car after that. There would have been no reason for JW to go back to the scene after the interview because he couldn't touch his car. (This was also reiterated later when Owens said his car was seized when JW went to the station.)

Also, Owens said that it was the only interaction he had with LE at the scene, so he hadn't approached LE earlier, like some of us were guessing. (This is just to clear up details that there have been confusion over. None of this is incriminating to me. .)

 

[al66pine]

Personally keeping an open mind to multiple possibilities, like skigirl & some others.

Everyone is welcome to an opinion, but I disagree that "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss say asked him to do. I am keeping my mind open to all possibilities .... There is a lot we don't know, and IMHO, we don't know enough to know what all logic dictates. JMO.

sbm Does anyone here think Mr S asked JW -
- to (open, if he did, and) inspect package/$;
- to take pic of $;
- to email pic to his GF (or anyone else); and
- to text GF about $ amt?
Personally doubting ^. MOO, but no/virtually no logic says that Mr S asked JW to do all ^ that. Or any of it.

Riffing from skigirl's post: some of us know enough to know-
(virtually all or) all logic dictates JW's actions went beyond what his boss asked him to do.

Not saying JW did anything criminal. JM2cts.

 

[kammiemc]

Picture of JW's BMW beyond the police tape was entry #511 on thread 19, DC Police tweets timeline was on entry #389 of thread 19.

Last Thursday, I decided to time the most direct route from the dojo to the point on Woodland Dr. where Jw's car was pictured(entry 511). I started at the dojo on Willard Rd. in Chantilly at 1:45pm taking US 50 to VA28 to I66(have I said how I HATE I66?) to the Rock Creek Pkwy to Mass Ave to 30th St to Woodland Dr. parking just north of the intersection of 31st Place and Woodland. Driving at the normal Washington pace in an agile Volvo, the journey took me 68 and a half minutes.

Jump to the day of the murders. Police would have blocked Woodland at 31st Place because the next intersection(Woodland and 32nd)was the fire/crime scene. They would have used a patrol car blocking to divert traffic northbound onto 31st place to Cleveland Ave. and would have been done within 15 minutes of fire and police vehicles arriving at the SS house.

If we are to use the timeline of the fire being reported at 1:24pm, the police blockade of Woodland would have been done by 1:45pm. If JW left the dojo at 1:45pm, he could not arrived at the location where his BMW was pictured until 2:54pm. How did he get the car around the police car blocking the street(and the officer directing traffic) with an active crime scene just a hundred yards up the road?
Note: I also tried the other way to get there via the Beltway into Bethesda then south and it took an hour and twenty minutes without serious traffic problems.)

That is interesting. Owens said one thing (added a statement) that struck me as possibly a tiny bit odd, only because it was unnecessary to say and the man was not a big talker. Does it seem like he didn't feel 100% confident saying that JW returned to the scene and parked his car where it was found? What would be the alternative? That he left his car there earlier and rode with someone else to Chantilly or took another car like the Bentley? (That wouldn't be so strange, right? We know he drove other cars of the S's.)

Q So, just to be clear my questions are all based on
your conversations with the officers who spoke directly with
W-1?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
And so prior to the police putting up the tape W-1
returned to the area of 3201 and parked his car; is that
correct?
A Well, at some point the tape was put up and W-1's
car was within the tape.
Q Okay.
So in other words what I'm saying is the tape wasn't
up and then W-1 went through the tape to park the car, the
car was there before the tape went up?
A I believe so, yeah.

(Kind of a weird questioning anyway--why did Ago need to clarify that JW didn't drive through the crime scene tape to park?)

 

[rkf]

Just me, but I'd be laying real low. Only the police would know where I was. I would be extremely afraid merely based on the fact that only Wint was arrested and there were 5 other people with him that were released and God and Law Enforcement only knows where they are at this point in time. :couch:

If JW was not involved in the crime, what would DW's cronies gain by disposing of him?

 

[rkf]

Yes, thanks for clarifying! "Would not use the word suspect."

Of course he's still a witness. W1. Nothing has changed there. Nothing has changed at all. Everything we know is the same as it was before the PH, because they were sticking to the affidavit.

And we were given the green light to sleuth JW because LE said he lied to them, not because they called him a suspect IIRC.

 

[kammiemc]

Personally keeping an open mind to multiple possibilities, like skigirl & some others.

sbm Does anyone here think Mr S asked JW -
- to (open, if he did, and) inspect package/$;
- to take pic of $;
- to email pic to his GF (or anyone else); and
- to text GF about $ amt?
Personally doubting ^. MOO, but no/virtually no logic says that Mr S asked JW to do all ^ that. Or any of it.

Riffing from skigirl's post: some of us know enough to know-
(virtually all or) all logic dictates JW's actions went beyond what his boss asked him to do.

Not saying JW did anything criminal. JM2cts.

Yeah, I highly doubt that SS would have asked him to do anything like that under the circumstances. Agree that it's not incriminating, but also agree that logic would say that JW wouldn't have done those things if he was just following boss's orders.

 

[Paulas88]

Personally keeping an open mind to multiple possibilities, like skigirl & some others.

sbm Does anyone here think Mr S asked JW -
- to (open, if he did, and) inspect package/$;
- to take pic of $;
- to email pic to his GF (or anyone else); and
- to text GF about $ amt?
Personally doubting ^. MOO, but no/virtually no logic says that Mr S asked JW to do all ^ that. Or any of it.

Riffing from skigirl's post: some of us know enough to know-
(virtually all or) all logic dictates JW's actions went beyond what his boss asked him to do.

Not saying JW did anything criminal. JM2cts.

I would think that DW was controlling SS phone.

 

[katydid23]

If JW was not involved in the crime, what would DW's cronies gain by disposing of him?

I have always wondered if JW might have left the garage door open, because maybe he was asked to do so. And maybe he sat in his car out on the street, watching the cash to make sure no one took it before his boss retrieved it. Because I would probably do that if I was responsible for 40k until it was in my bosses hands.

And what if he sat in his car and watched the garage, and saw an unknown male come out and close the garage door from inside?

I doubt it happened because I'd think he would have called SS if so. I would have. But IDK.

 

[rkf]

RSBM

Wasn't this speculation here? Can you post a link?

I'm not sure if it's speculation. You guys can help me out.

Owens said in the PH that part of JW's job was registering cars, taking them in for repairs, etc. after running several of the plates, we found that the red Audi had an emissions test a few days after JW started working for SS. (6-18 months before it was due) The test was done at the Annapolis facility. There are at least 2 testing facilities closer to the S house and AIW, but at that time JW was living in Annapolis, so that facility would have been closest to his home. We aren't sure how often JW worked for SS, but his SM postings put him there on Tuesdays and Thursday's (correct me if those are the wrong days). The Audi was tested on a Friday. It would make sense, but not necessarily be true, that JW would take the car from the S house on Thursday or Friday and then keep it until his next work day. If all of this is accurate (probably not), JW could have kept the car at his apartment overnight for at least one night, possibly more. Otherwise, he would have picked up the car and taken it to an emissions testing center (not one of the centers closest to AIW or the S home) and returned it the same day.

 

[rkf]

I adjusted my post to reflect that it is just my opinion. That opinion is based on a photo of JW standing with the Mosler vehicle in a parking lot. This photo and others were posted on his FB page that we know now has been taken down.

So JMO's

The first Mosler photo was taken at Autobahn.