DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #7

[popsicle]

haha sorry I messed up my post.

 

[atthelake]

Because he got his cut of the money. We have not heard that all $40,000 was found.

Furthermore, as to why W-1 has not been charged if "guilty" ..well, the people in the "DW Car and Truck parade" have not been charged either. Doesn't prove they won't be.

W-1 may be a sweetheart. But, since LE has very provocatively proclaimed him to be a liar in a public document...attention has been drawn to him. In a crime this heinous, every single aspect must be looked at from every angle...we all know that. If someone "inside" betrayed this family, this child...and was party to one of the most horrific crimes I have ever read about, it is grotesque beyond description. That person is perhaps even more vile than the torturer himself.

Think of the scars left for the surviving daughters...how do they ever trust again...if it's someone the family knew.

I don't think we are here to "convince" each other...only to hypothesize. Any minute, more information can make everything I thought I knew...false. Or vice versa.

:moo: Not necessarily "witness shaming" as it's being called here. But more perhaps that the charging documents must be thorough for when this goes to trial IYKWIM. If he did lie, and it was left out of the charging documents, perhaps that would be something for the defense to hang it's hat on and spin (which they will do anyway)

:fence:

 

[kammiemc]

So you think this professional driver had the family brutally killed so he could get 20K?

No, I don't assume that at all. I assume he is an immature garden variety thief and probably thought taking money from a very rich family wouldn't hurt them. (Like stealing from a corporation.) We don't know that they were only going for $40k. In fact, many here have speculated that the thieves probably thought they could get allll of SS's cash because they probably (very probably) don't know the intricacies of how banking works and how much cash can be taken out on short notice, etc. I am theorizing that JW just wanted money, knew someone who had a lot of it, and maybe thought the family wouldn't be harmed too much. The fact that he was crying tells me that he felt bad that the family and Vera got killed. I imagine in hindsight it probably seems not worth $20k.

 

[atthelake]

This is a good point and I think LE are much further along in their investigation than what is being publicly shared. There are various ways, including technology to gather evidence, so if W1 has any part to play in the murder of Savapoulos' SS, AS, PS and Ms. Figueroa then LE is going to find enough evidence to support any arrest. And I think LE will be able to track much of the perp(s) movements from cameras, as areas travelled are not some remote location too. LE has done an excellent job so far in apprehending alleged suspect DDW, so I don't expect anything less from them in tracking additional perp(s), money, weapons and/or other ill-gotten gains from this horrendous crime. Jmo/

Yep, phone calls of perps to perps. Can't imagine how many warrants they have now for cell phones. The 5, the gf of DW, etc etc. Probably looks like this :giggle:

http://www.levitated.net/bones/nodeGarden/draftNodesI.jpg

ETA: Hey! That looks like a string art that I did in the mid 60's!

 

[kammiemc]

For 20K? He would do all of that pre-planning, all of that work and have a family killed, for the sake of 20K? And now he is jobless again? But at least he and his girlfriend have that big huge pile of cash to fall back on...

No. I just assume he is not very sophisticated and like mannnnnnny other people thought stealing from his rich employer would be a good way to get some money. He probably thought he could get millions and split it with the kidnapper. I highly doubt even someone desperate for money would think it's a good idea to kill four people for $20k. The plan went awry.

 

[al66pine]

This is my first time hearing this....
"They never really had it on, especially because the house was so close to the vice president," Guitierrez said of the alarm system."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/3...-to-police-about-details-40000-cash-delivery/

sbm

IIRC, MSM quoted someone - I thought NG, early on,
saying system was on aaaaaalllllllllllll the time.
Or was that someone else? Thx in adv, sorry if already covered.

 

[Skigirl]

I'm dying to learn the argument made to get a judge to approve accessing Jordan's girlfriend's mobile phone records and data...

UNLESS...
Having received the MMS with the money in the bag and then learning about the murders on the news, Jordan's girlfriend thought something was amiss and she contacted DC police herself.

Well, they could have just gotten a judge to approve accessing JW's mobile phone records. It would show whatever JW sent to her.

 

[jd dickinson]

:moo: Not necessarily "witness shaming" as it's being called here. But more perhaps that the charging documents must be thorough for when this goes to trial IYKWIM. If he did lie, and it was left out of the charging documents, perhaps that would be something for the defense to hang it's hat on and spin (which they will do anyway)

Actually, I've been thinking the opposite. I think these charging documents are terribly flawed in that they throw W-1 under the bus and, even worse, make the unnecessary conclusion that the crime "required" more than one person.

This is like candy for the defense team. Now the defense can discredit W-1 (if helpful to them) using LE's own charging documents, and can also use the charging documents to argue that even LE didn't think Wint could pull this off himself. Now if LE can't come up with a second man in the house or prove W-1 was a conspirator (both dubious IMO), they look very foolish making the argument, "Well, we believe Wint was the mastermind and also he pulled it off all by himself." Because, at the charging stage, they clearly did not think this. They thought the crime required multiple people to be involved, probably at least one on the outside (W-1) and at least one more man at the house.

This shouldn't matter in the end if the prosecutor is any good, thanks to the DNA and finding the cash on the truck. Still, a jury will be left wondering if Wint was the sole perp or just a junior goon in a crew led by others, and one juror could well decide that it feels like a frame-up, hanging the jury.

IMO the charging documents should have stuck to the essentials. Cash delivered to house by W-1 on orders by SS. Pizza ordered and delivered to house. 4 people murdered. Wint's DNA on pizza. What more do you need to arrest Wint?

I think one good reason that LE normally does not talk about investigations in progress is because they often have ludicrous ideas early in the investigation, which prove to be false. If those false ideas were made public, innocent people would be shamed in the media, losing their reputations and even their jobs, and then this might not get sorted out for years if ever.

So, if it's a good idea not talk about investigations in progress, why start mouthing off in a charging document about how one witness lied and how the crime "required" additional perps, when the only purpose of the charging document is to get an arrest warrant issued for Wint? Just go by the direct evidence and keep the sideshows and unsubstantiated theories to yourself. None of that was necessary to charge Wint, and now LE is boxed in with their own conclusion that the crime "required" multiple persons and meanwhile shaming W-1 for lying.

 

[popsicle]

Right, you don't forget that. I think JW told police he located the key, unlocked the car and put the key back but police were unable to locate the key where JW said he put it and that is how they caught him in the lie. SS probably had the key on his key ring so how would JW get the key from that if he didn't know what was going on? IMO

It doesn't say they caught him in the lie. It says he told them he lied about the car being locked. I think he told them the car was locked because in his mind it somehow made him look better. He left the money locked in the car so whoever robbed and murdered everyone it wasn't because he left the money unsecure. Something along that line. jmo

 

[katydid23]

No. I just assume he is not very sophisticated and like mannnnnnny other people thought stealing from his rich employer would be a good way to get some money. He probably thought he could get millions and split it with the kidnapper. I highly doubt even someone desperate for money would think it's a good idea to kill four people for $20k. The plan went awry.

I don't think that JW was as dumb, uneducated and vicious as DW. I do not believe that he thought a thief could get millions from SS in a home invasion. And I don't think he would have texted his gf a pic of the $$$ if he intended to steal it. JMO

 

[sellen75]

Quick thought here about Witness 1 and his lying about the keys. What if investigators found the Mosler keys inside the house after the fire. He would then have to explain what he was doing in the house if the car was indeed locked thus changing his statement and admitting to lying because that is a lot better than admitting to be involved ?!?!? Just a thought...

 

[kammiemc]

I don't think that JW was as dumb, uneducated and vicious as DW. I do not believe that he thought a thief could get millions from SS in a home invasion. And I don't think he would have texted his gf a pic of the $$$ if he intended to steal it. JMO

I agree that he doesn't come across on social media as a cold-blooded killer like DW. But I do agree with others that he might have believed that SS could get more than $40k out of the bank. Other people think cars were involved. I have no instincts about that part. The police obviously have more information on him and know better than we do about his conflicting accounts, etc. It could go either way. But I will be pretty surprised if we find out that made up those lies (like that he got the call Thurs instead of the reality that he got the text Weds) for some reason like he didn't want to look unprofessional or silly. It doesn't make any sense. Unless he is really unintelligent, which is a possibility. As for the pic of the money. Whether he intended to steal it or deliver it for the dojo, it just shows he has bad judgment. But the police will have clues as to his state of mind about the money based on the dialogue he had with this girlfriend about it. The dialogue clearly didn't make him LESS suspicious in their minds.

 

[Skigirl]

Learning the info from NG that they had a gun in the master bedroom saddens me. They were literally feet from it since that's where they were bound. If only somehow SS or AS had been able to break free and get the gun. ....

To me, this just shows that the most random tragedies can happen to anyone no matter how well-prepared. They lived near the VPOTUS, had security cameras, two large dogs, a handgun and SS had extensive martial arts sword training. I mean, if it can happen to that family, it can literally happen to anyone.

 

[FelicityLemon]

I think it was 100s, because that's what they found in the truck at arrest. I was wondering why anyone would put $40,000 in their pockets in front of people, but then I realized that the bank may have still been closed when they picked up the money. Still seems weird. If JW went into the bank with the employee, why wouldn't the employee just hold the stacks as s/he walked the distance from the banker to the driver in the lobby? None of this really makes sense...

Exactly. I want to see the first employee's statement. It's all odd to me, but I'm not rich.

I didn't know you could make arrangements to do business at the bank outside of normal operating hours. And THAT to me, would be a red flag. No "thing" is so desperately needed that you make a huge cash withdrawal before the bank is open.

Nothing except life.

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't think that JW was as dumb, uneducated and vicious as DW. I do not believe that he thought a thief could get millions from SS in a home invasion. And I don't think he would have texted his gf a pic of the $$$ if he intended to steal it. JMO

Do we know who received the text that included the picture of the money? I may have missed it. Wouldn't the person that received that picture also be named in the charging document? IDK

 

[Paulas88]

Perhaps Mr S was instructed to have Jordan meet the employee who is an authorized signatory on the AIW bank account at the bank in order to expedite the delivery of the funds to the house.

I wonder if the expected amount was delivered... Perhaps the reason that law enforcement is aware of Jordan's lies is that DW exposed Jordan's lies during his interrogation following his arrest; I can't think of another way law enforcement would be aware of those very specific details that Jordan lied about...

Yes, I've been wondering About this too. And why did SS call JW at 11:54? (Could of course been DW calling from SS phone) and why didnt DW leave immediately after money drop.

 

[kammiemc]

The other thing to consider is that we don't know where JW is and he is not speaking. Some people have read (or speculated) that he is protective custody. It is possible that, after being called out for his lies, he came clean about his involvement in the money part of the crime and ratted out DW and his posse in exchange for lesser charges or impunity. The cops wouldn't be public about that while they are using his info to bring charges against the killers. Just a theory amongst all the others. None of us really know much.

 

[arielilane]

Hmmm .. I thought she may have decided to stop talking to media, guess not. Also, who on gods green earth wouldn't worry about the alarm because the vice pres lived a couple of streets away? As usual her statement makes no sense and is not helpful.

Don't the Clintons have a home in that area as well? I may be wrong.

 

[Paulas88]

Because he got his cut of the money. We have not heard that all $40,000 was found.

Furthermore, as to why W-1 has not been charged if "guilty" ..well, the people in the "DW Car and Truck parade" have not been charged either. Doesn't prove they won't be.

W-1 may be a sweetheart. But, since LE has very provocatively proclaimed him to be a liar in a public document...attention has been drawn to him. In a crime this heinous, every single aspect must be looked at from every angle...we all know that. If someone "inside" betrayed this family, this child...and was party to one of the most horrific crimes I have ever read about, it is grotesque beyond description. That person is perhaps even more vile than the torturer himself.

Think of the scars left for the surviving daughters...how do they ever trust again...if it's someone the family knew.

I don't think we are here to "convince" each other...only to hypothesize. Any minute, more information can make everything I thought I knew...false. Or vice versa.

We've only have heard about a $40,000 money drop off. There could have
Been a lot more money in the home we know nothing about (safe) and that would explain how DW had loads of $$ even if JW didn't make the drop

 

[arielilane]

We don't know what we would do, but after seeing what happened to this family, it makes me realize that it is a good idea to have a plan in place if, God forbid, the unthinkable should ever happen. Parents need to have these conversations, because they won't have a chance to communicate candidly & strategically plan together once they are under siege. Mind you, there is a next to nothing chance this will ever happen to your family, but as someone who knew the Savopouloses quite well and lived nearby, I never thought this would happen to anyone in my neighborhood, much less my friends.

Serena, I am so sorry for the loss of your friends. I did not know them but I have not stopped thinking about them since the horrible murders were first being reported. My heartfelt prayers are with the family (especially the S daughters).