DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #7

[TexMex]

For me that is the missing part. Obviously they COULD have known each other/crossed paths because of all the commonalities in their pasts, but did they?

I'm not seeing any commonalities...W1 was working and racing. DW was unemployed and in and out of jail...

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I don't know. Most of that info would be obvious or self explanatory, perhaps.

DW could easily assume SS had S/AIW bank accounts. He was a CEO and a wealthy man. What more did DW need to know? What did JW know that DW didn't and needed to know to rob him?

I am not sure that JW had that much knowledge about the valuables in the home. But it does not seem that DW came prepared to take many of them. How many would fit in that bucket and could be taken away on foot?

As for the cars, they are all visible to passerby's. No big secrets there.

What real info did JW have that would merit big bucks?

I don't know either, but any inside information on the family is valuable. JW would have partial information on their patterns of life, who lived in the house, who visited, what their backgrounds were, etc. Just knowing someone is rich doesn't mean you'd know that they'd have just as an example a lot of gold items that can be melted down shortly after and become untraceable. Also it could be very valuable knowledge knowing if people in the house have guns there, which JW could know that or at least think he did. There's just a whole host of things that can be very valuable to know from an insider compared to just breaking into a random house. SS for instance may have done other cash withdrawals and this could have been part of that where the plans changed from $10K that SS was going to pick up (with JW as his driver) into $40K that JW was going to pick up, which could have been why it didn't trigger more suspicion as it was an extension of an existing transaction. There's so many unknowns here that I don't think it can be ruled out that JW didn't have valuable information that he could provide to criminals.

 

[katydid23]

If SS walked in, and saw DW with a knife to his son's throat, SS had a big decision to make. I understand your premise, that it would have been 'better' for SS to flee at that moment. And in doing so, it would force DW to make the most rational decision left to him, which is to flee out the back. 'Why harm anyone at that point?', you rationalize him thinking.

But I would have a hard time fleeing if I saw an intruder with a knife to my 10 yr olds throat. I don't think I could do it. And I am not convinced it is the best strategy. EVIL people are not always rational or logical. They would just as soon slit the boy's throat and then run.

SS had no way to know if DW had already slaughtered the rest of the family. if so, what would prevent him from killing the boy thne to in retaliation for SS fleeing?

And how could SS ever forgive himself if DW slit the boys throat in response to SS running? It may have ended up with SS being the only survivor. That would be a true He!! on Earth for the poor man.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think the only one with full knowledge of the drop off details was W1...and he got them ten minutes away from SS home.

The bank manager and the exec knew $40K had been withdrawn. The exec gave the money to W1. For all they knew W1 was going to pick up SS and go buy stuff for the martial arts studio...

Very good point. We're assuming everyone knew about the drop details, and that's not the case. I'm sure it will eventually come out what SS told the accountant and other associates about that morning's request for money. Whatever he told them, they complied and then, apparently, went on with their day.

One thing that has been bugging me. AG said that SS's mom called her soon after the fire started. I'm not sure we can believe AG's accuracy, but that story made me wonder if SS called his parents Thursday morning trying to gather money. We know he talked to his sister, though she didn't mention ransom requests. How did SS's mom know so quickly that the house was on fire? Maybe a neighbor called her? IDK where this leads, but that phone call from from SS's mom to the housekeeper has been puzzling me.

 

[Inthedetails]

If SS walked in, and saw DW with a knife to his son's throat, SS had a big decision to make. I understand your premise, that it would have been 'better' for SS to flee at that moment. And in doing so, it would force DW to make the most rational decision left to him, which is to flee out the back. 'Why harm anyone at that point?', you rationalize him thinking.

But I would have a hard time fleeing if I saw an intruder with a knife to my 10 yr olds throat. I don't think I could do it. And I am not convinced it is the best strategy. EVIL people are not always rational or logical. They would just as soon slit the boy's throat and then run.

SS had no way to know if DW had already slaughtered the rest of the family. if so, what would prevent him from killing the boy thne to in retaliation for SS fleeing?

And how could SS ever forgive himself if DW slit the boys throat in response to SS running? It may have ended up with SS being the only survivor. That would be a true He!! on Earth for the poor man.

We also don't know if Wint was in the progress of already harming the boy. Any hesitation or movement on SS's part might have inflicted a lot of pain to the boy right then and there - maybe even as Wint made the demands. I think we have to assume the level of violence was irrational and severe.

And that's all I want to say because I don't let my mind wander into this part of the crime.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I think the only one with full knowledge of the drop off details was W1...and he got them ten minutes away from SS home.

The bank manager and the exec knew $40K had been withdrawn. The exec gave the money to W1. For all they knew W1 was going to pick up SS and go buy stuff for the martial arts studio...

Yes, that's true. We don't know what the others were told.

 

[Paulas88]

For me that is the missing part. Obviously they COULD have known each other/crossed paths because of all the commonalities in their pasts, but did they?

The link is the Amerit Box truck! For me, that's what keeps bringing me back to JW

 

[popsicle]

To the last point, I don't think so. I don't see an adult man wanting to take on another adult man in his own house, with merely the element of surprise in his favor. Any husband should have sensed something was "off" and come in with caution, anyway.

I think Wint had the women tied up upstairs and probably had a knife to Philip, being easiest to control and controlling his parents in turn. Whether Philip was upstairs or downstairs at that moment, I have no idea. I just think SS was presented with the scene and had to make a decision.

The wealthy tend to feel that money is power, and SS had plenty of money. It would be natural of SS's part to assume that money could get them through this situation, but this is the key miscalculation. If the man is wearing no mask, then he can be identified. No amount of money will change the fact that 4 witnesses can put him in jail. At the risk of being too simplistic: "Never surrender your freedom to a man you can identify."

Wint must not have been wearing a mask, because otherwise there was no reason to kill four people. Even if he had a personal rage for SS and his family, why kill the housekeeper? So, he wasn't wearing a mask, IMO.

After all that time he may not have been wearing a mask but in the beginning he may have been. A serious criminal like Wint and SS makes a run for it he could slice PS's throat and take off. I sure wouldn't take that chance.

 

[katydid23]

Very good point. We're assuming everyone knew about the drop details, and that's not the case. I'm sure it will eventually come out what SS told the accountant and other associates about that morning's request for money. Whatever he told them, they complied and then, apparently, went on with their day.

One thing that has been bugging me. AG said that SS's mom called her soon after the fire started. I'm not sure we can believe AG's accuracy, but that story made me wonder if SS called his parents Thursday morning trying to gather money. We know he talked to his sister, though she didn't mention ransom requests. How did SS's mom know so quickly that the house was on fire? Maybe a neighbor called her? IDK where this leads, but that phone from from SS's mom to the housekeeper has been puzzling me.

I am thinking a neighbor or a friend who was passing by called her. The S family has been living and working in the area for decades. They knew a whole lot of people. It makes sense that others in the neighborhood knew them and knew their son's family lived in the burning home.

 

[TexMex]

The link is the Amerit Box truck! For me, that's what keeps bringing me back to JW

How so?

 

[jjenny]

How did DW overcome SS home security system. He must of had some insight as to what to disarm?

If it wasn't armed he wouldn't need to do anything.

 

[Dushi]

Were the outside cameras not working or erased?

 

[jd dickinson]

If SS walked in, and saw DW with a knife to his son's throat, SS had a big decision to make. I understand your premise, that it would have been 'better' for SS to flee at that moment. And in doing so, it would force DW to make the most rational decision left to him, which is to flee out the back. 'Why harm anyone at that point?', you rationalize him thinking.

But I would have a hard time fleeing if I saw an intruder with a knife to my 10 yr olds throat. I don't think I could do it. And I am not convinced it is the best strategy. EVIL people are not always rational or logical. They would just as soon slit the boy's throat and then run.

SS had no way to know if DW had already slaughtered the rest of the family. if so, what would prevent him from killing the boy thne to in retaliation for SS fleeing?

And how could SS ever forgive himself if DW slit the boys throat in response to SS running? It may have ended up with SS being the only survivor. That would be a true He!! on Earth for the poor man.

True: we don't know whether Wint would slit Philip's throat in that situation.

But, as a man, I want to ask you and other women in this forum a question. Would you forgive your husband if he fled out the front door calling 911 in that moment, and then your son had his throat slit in response?

In this scenario, everyone survives but Philip. Wint isn't wearing a mask.

I have to admit that part of my hesitation in that moment isn't just about the son, it's about facing my wife thereafter. So, I want to know what the reaction might be.

In my mind, I'm probably giving Philip 50/50 odds, myself 90% odds, and 80% odds that my wife and the housekeeper survive. If I surrender myself to Wint, I'm giving all of us about 25% odds of survival, if I thinking clearly and Wint isn't wearing a mask. It's an emotionally wretched choice, but it isn't logically tough, in the situation as described, when I can identify Wint.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

A personal driver has a lot more responsibility than a valet. I am not letting a valet drive ME around through the city with my life in his hands. A valet parks my car while I am eating, but he does not know where I live, nor drive me or my family around, park it in my garage. VERY different tasks. IMO

I don't see the suspicion level being the same with the accountant if he is asked to give it to the driver who will take it to the CEO.

He would be much more suspicious if he were asked to take it to the home himself, but NOT to ring the bell, but to leave it in the car in the garage and go. That would be a red flag, imo.

Yes, I'm not saying they have the same responsibilities, just someone - particularly someone just recently hired - doesn't mean there's a whole bunch of trust in them. As you bring up driving people all over the place including your home, people use taxis but it doesn't mean either those using them or those employing them particularly trust the drivers, especially newly hired drivers. I may put a driver's life in my hands to get me from point A to point B including to my house, but it doesn't mean I'd leave my wallet alone with them. For me much of it is the newly hired aspect of it that gets me, but as Tex pointed out others contacted might not have known the full situation for it to be on their radar about what this driver who was only hired weeks ago was going to do.

 

[katydid23]

True: we don't know whether Wint would slit Philip's throat in that situation.

But, as a man, I want to ask you and other women in this forum a question. Would you forgive your husband if he fled out the front door calling 911 in that moment, and then your son had his throat slit in response?

In this scenario, everyone survives but Philip. Wint isn't wearing a mask.

I have to admit that part of my hesitation in that moment isn't just about the son, it's about facing my wife thereafter. So, I want to know what the reaction might be.

In my mind, I'm probably giving Philip 50/50 odds, myself 90% odds, and 80% odds that my wife and the housekeeper survive. If I surrender myself to Wint, I'm giving all of us about 25% odds of survival, if I thinking clearly and Wint isn't wearing a mask. It's an emotionally wretched choice, but it isn't logically tough, in the situation as described, when I can identify Wint.

In all honesty, I would probably never forgive my husband if he ran out the door after seeing a knife to one of our kids throats. :sigh:

I would not care about 'surviving' if I watched my child's throat slit and my husband hightail out of the door to save the two of us.
Divorce court and lots of visits to the shrink would follow, most likely.

 

[Momoffourboys]

For me that is the missing part. Obviously they COULD have known each other/crossed paths because of all the commonalities in their pasts, but did they?

They could have had an indirect connection. A friend or family member in common.
Not that I think there was one or that JW was involved, but, it is possible.

 

[katydid23]

True: we don't know whether Wint would slit Philip's throat in that situation.

But, as a man, I want to ask you and other women in this forum a question. Would you forgive your husband if he fled out the front door calling 911 in that moment, and then your son had his throat slit in response?

In this scenario, everyone survives but Philip. Wint isn't wearing a mask.

I have to admit that part of my hesitation in that moment isn't just about the son, it's about facing my wife thereafter. So, I want to know what the reaction might be.

In my mind, I'm probably giving Philip 50/50 odds, myself 90% odds, and 80% odds that my wife and the housekeeper survive. If I surrender myself to Wint, I'm giving all of us about 25% odds of survival, if I thinking clearly and Wint isn't wearing a mask. It's an emotionally wretched choice, but it isn't logically tough, in the situation as described, when I can identify Wint.

If therte was a way that he could be assured of saving the boy, and sacrificing himself and/or the other adults, that would be a win, imo. But saving the three adults, and having the child's throat slit---NOT a win, by any stretch. jmo

 

[jd dickinson]

In all honesty, I would probably never forgive my husband if he ran out the door after seeing a knife to one of our kids throats. :sigh:

I would not care about 'surviving' if I watched my child's throat slit and my husband hightail out of the door to save the two of us.
Divorce court and lots of visits to the shrink would follow, most likely.

See, this is what I feel as well emotionally, as the husband in that situation. I have a commitment and a fierce desire to protect my wife and child against all harm. I am responsible for their safety. So, heading for the door, while the right logical decision (IMO), might be an unforgivable act in my wife's eyes, if the child dies. And I anticipate this response, in that situation and thinking about it in advance.

What if the knife is held to your throat? Same answer?

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I'm not saying they have the same responsibilities, just someone - particularly someone just recently hired - doesn't mean there's a whole bunch of trust in them. As you bring up driving people all over the place including your home, people use taxis but it doesn't mean either those using them or those employing them particularly trust the drivers, especially newly hired drivers. I may put a driver's life in my hands to get me from point A to point B including to my house, but it doesn't mean I'd leave my wallet alone with them. For me much of it is the newly hired aspect of it that gets me, but as Tex pointed out others contacted might not have known the full situation for it to be on their radar about what this driver who was only hired weeks ago was going to do.

He was newly hired, but SS had known him for quite awhile through his other job. SS gave him the keys to the Porsche, the Bentley and the expensive sports car. There had to be a certain amount of trust there. And when his and his family's life depended upon it, he trusted JW to deliver the ransom.

 

[katydid23]

See, this is what I feel as well emotionally, as the husband in that situation. I have a commitment and a fierce desire to protect my wife and child against all harm. I am responsible for their safety. So, heading for the door, while the right logical decision (IMO), might be an unforgivable act in my wife's eyes, if the child dies. And I anticipate this response, in that situation and thinking about it in advance.

What if the knife is held to your throat? Same answer?

No, surprisingly not the same answer. If my husband fled and called 911 and stayed outside screaming that the cops were coming etc, then I would totally understand his actions. And if I died but he saved our kids, I would not haunt him, I would be his guardian angel. :angel: