Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

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Sorry if you think I'm playing games. I read some of my previous posts and I can see you are right, What I was trying to do was hint towards what I'm thinking to see if anyone here would add to it and a few people did which was helpful. My ideas are probably wrong anyway, but I guess my confusion is that I can't figure out if it would help LE more or the killers more; if someone figured this out and posted it here. Maybe a family member could help me with this. I better get to work

I am glad you clarified. I now can see what you are trying to do, but when you said we'd "kick ourselves when we figured it out" it made me crazy!

You perhaps are thinking it's a certain ethnic groupo with a beef, as has been tgheorized but others, I believe. I can see that being sensitive without supporting evidence. Still, I am very inetrested in anyone's theories!

Eve
 
Sorry if you think I'm playing games. I read some of my previous posts and I can see you are right, What I was trying to do was hint towards what I'm thinking to see if anyone here would add to it and a few people did which was helpful. My ideas are probably wrong anyway, but I guess my confusion is that I can't figure out if it would help LE more or the killers more; if someone figured this out and posted it here. Maybe a family member could help me with this. I better get to work
I am glad you understand what my message (thanks, Suzi) was about the games. I think it is one thing to do it to us...but quite another to a family member. Things are better left unsaid than to give them a false sense of solid information being witheld from them. It is a rollercoaster ride enough for them and very difficult for them to be here among our discussions. We do discuss things openly and get fairly graphic. (Sorry, Denise) However, it is the only way to develop correct theories to stop these people from harming others, imo.

Here, we don't "hint" about things and hope people pick up on them to help prove or disprove a theory. We come out with what we have and it allows people here to literally pick it apart or not. If I come up with a wild theory...which everyone knows I do sometimes...I want people to pick it apart to save time. I could be working in another direction to find the answers.

There isn't any way it helps the killers to see the theory on here or anywhere else, imo. It does quite the opposite. It puts them on notice that people are watching and they are on limited time before it all comes together. It would hopefully put a stop to what they are doing! By posting a correct theory...LE that read here will pick up on it. If by working together we can put the pieces to the puzzle in...they can take it from there. Every case starts with one piece falling into place. Too often, it is missing or overlooked by LE. We try to find it.

Right now, LE is not going to entertain ANY other ideas on the cases unless you have a photo to back it up while it was being carried out (as one father was told). The Dicks (thanks, Nurse) are in a similar situation as they are only talking to families because they are being swamped with information. They aren't going to listen to other theories because they have worked years to develop their own and feel confident they have solid evidence to back it up.

We already know it has to do with the age, status, alcohol, sex, athletic ability, intelligence, and location. We have the profile of the victims. What we don't have is the profile/profiles of the killer/killers. The Dicks (thanks, N) believe it is "pods" of people in different locations. This could be gangs or any other grouping. We already know robbery is not a motive. We already know the motive is driven by a single ideology.
 
Porkchop is referring to the Mark Kilroy case and subsequent investigatioin in Matamoras, Mexico.
Major difference would be that those cults are know to be extremely violent, mutilations, etc. There has been none of that in these cases, do you have a theory as to what cult/ or what might be different?
Great questions. I believe Porkchop mentioned they might have changed from such violent "tactics" so not to draw attention to themselves, but still carry out ritualistic behaviors to keep them "safe".

Could it be that the first murder was a "fluke", but since LE immediately ruled it an accidental death...it paved the way for them to expand on it and perfect their mode of killing? They were given carte blanche to kill with no worry of detection as long as it was carried out basically the same way each time. (It has been perfect all along. No evidence, no witnesses, and no mistakes.)
 
Has anyone considered those men (and women) who have mysteriously disappeared from cruise ships. Different MO, but in a sense, similiar. Night of partying, young guy (usually) disappears and it is assumed that he committed suicide or it was accidental.
 
No, Indigator...I had not considered it, but you are right. Many unanswered questions there, too. I think most of us would assume that alcohol and a ship don't mix well anyway. Then again...people think that alcohol and rivers don't either! Interesting.
 
Don't you feel you are painting that with a very wide brush? In other words, there are many groups which could possibly want to do harm to these young men (not all of them were caucasion).

It may not have anything to do with "hating white men" and I would hate to suggest that to Denise at the moment without something to back up such a statement.

Hello SS; when you try to figure a case out that might involve a serial killer or killers; you look for similarities in the cases that appear connected. Since every single drowning involves a young white man; except for 2 Asians; both of whom have some circumstances that are a bit different than the other cases; it means they might not connect; and if the 2 Asian cases turn out to be accidents; then every other drowning does involve a young white man who was drinking. That is NOT a broad brush--it's an obvios clue that young white men are specifically targeted. We have no women, no completely sober people, no blacks and no mexicans yet and remember most serial killers targeted similiar victims. I asked Denise a question about Mexicans but that in no way means I think Mexicans are behind this and maybe I read that on a different thread? Everyone is here for their own reasons; my reason is that this interests me and I'm hoping to use my ideas and research and maybe get a few clues from others and connect the dots and give the info to LE. But I'm not going to throw out my conclusions now; why would I? When I post where I'm going, which for starters; is that a group of people is targeting young white men who drink; I'm met with negativity. If everything I have connects, I'll definitely contact LE, post here or contact a family member with a private message if thats possible



SHEERLUCK, LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOU WANT TO GET CLUES FROM OTHERS (US) BUT WILL NOT SHARE YOUR "CONCLUSIONS" WITH US? WHAT AN A$$HOLE YOU SOUND LIKE. DID YOU REALIZE IT?


 
Did you hear about this story?



The victims were handcuffed, bound with duct tape and subjected to various means of torture during interrogations, including "simulated drowning through repeated submerging of victims' heads in water for extended periods of time," the court papers said.



Another name for this style of torture is "Waterboarding", and our President thinks it is just dandy. Better check and see if anyone recently discharged from Special Forces fits the geographic profile. :rolleyes:
 
I thought waterboarding was pouring water on the subject to make them feel as if they were drowning instead of dunking them repeatedly.

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward—known as the Trendelenburg position—and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages.[1][2] Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent.[3] In contrast to merely submerging the head face-forward, waterboarding almost immediately elicits the gag reflex.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
 
Hi all, sorry for the delay...I don't get a chance to check this everyday. 2 things: 1. Though I appreciate the concern, please feel free to throw out every idea/theory you may come up with, no matter how graphic or possibly offensive. I don't come here expecting things to be sugar coated for me. Part of why I'm here is because my aunt can't handle it, but she's very interested in what others are saying/thinking. I relay ideas back to her, but in a very protective way. I believe you all have good intentions and are not out to bash the victims or families.

2. I did post on the other site that Tommy's friends told the cops they last saw him at the bar talking to 3 Spanish girls. I dismissed it as lies because when I went to the bar the following Sat. night, there wasn't a single Latino person in there.

I heard a couple different stories about what happened that night according to his friends, the bartenders, and bouncers. I can't even figure out which is the correct version at this point. I've asked my aunt to keep me informed as far as what the police tell her, but I'm also not going to post anything without her permission. If I can help lead you either towards or away from something, I will. In the meantime, I'll keep following what you're writing and hopefully we'll figure this out.

I'm especially curious as to what the M.E. may or may not find in his second look at the autopsy. I'm hoping he is able to run additional tests to help rule things out...or maybe get lucky and find a trace of something unusual. I haven't heard anything about that and I don't even know when to expect any answers. Again, if I can share, I will. Thanks for your thoughts & helpful info.
 
Hugs to you and the family, Denise. I know it can't be easy. I am glad you are aware that we are only trying to find the truth to prevent this from happening to someone else's child and also to find answers for the family. It is good that you field things for your aunt. Some things can be quite troubling that we come up with and entirely off base at the same time. The ups and downs of any case is to explore possibilities in various directions. You never know when things are going to "hit" on something during that process or take us so far off track we hit a wall.

I must ask if anyone else can corroborate the 3 spanish girls being there at all? It would surprise me to see them there later, if they possibly were involved. However, it doesn't mean they were involved...but one could have a boyfriend who was jealous. It is an area to explore at least.

Is there a large population of Hispanics in that particular area? Are there ongoing construction projects in the area very near the bar? Do you know how many patrons were in the bar when he went missing?
 
Has anyone considered those men (and women) who have mysteriously disappeared from cruise ships. Different MO, but in a sense, similiar. Night of partying, young guy (usually) disappears and it is assumed that he committed suicide or it was accidental.
Is there generally a robbery motive in that instance?
I see it as possible, but if there is that torture element, alot harder to stay anonymous.
 
Hugs to you and the family, Denise. I know it can't be easy. I am glad you are aware that we are only trying to find the truth to prevent this from happening to someone else's child and also to find answers for the family. It is good that you field things for your aunt. Some things can be quite troubling that we come up with and entirely off base at the same time. The ups and downs of any case is to explore possibilities in various directions. You never know when things are going to "hit" on something during that process or take us so far off track we hit a wall.

I must ask if anyone else can corroborate the 3 spanish girls being there at all? It would surprise me to see them there later, if they possibly were involved. However, it doesn't mean they were involved...but one could have a boyfriend who was jealous. It is an area to explore at least.

Is there a large population of Hispanics in that particular area? Are there ongoing construction projects in the area very near the bar? Do you know how many patrons were in the bar when he went missing?

To add to Super SS questions-
Is there any other reason to disbelieve Tommy's friends account of that evening?
 
OMG, Before you all question my sanity (not that it would be out of the question)

This was actually posted on another site (just providing link, cause I'm nice) but I just stopped laughing long enough to cut and paste it. This is a posters theory, and he is not kidding by the way,

http://visionandpsychosis.net/

I want to say in advance if anyone has a psychotic episode if the lights flicker on your laptop and you suddenly feel like jumping in the river I am not responsible.

I gurantee you that link gets posted on any site of someone who dies of anything from gout to murder
 
I have heard of that before, Blink. While I think it is way out there...you can't deny that certain websites/games/tv shows because of light patterns etc. have been known to bring on seizures in people with Epilepsy.

So do I buy into this theory? No. However, I think they are really thinking outside of the box and in a way...it is a good thing. We don't know enough about the human brain today. That study is still in its infancy and there is so much to be explored. If it means some Scientist with credentials will decide to debunk the theory then it served a purpose. :)
 
SS- I don't deny any of what you are saying re the gaming issue, for sure, but the theory itself goes against the proponderence of evidence in every one of these cases that I am aware of. I think you and I and others on this thread generally start out of the box and then narrow down, that's true, but I was floored by that-
 
I know the area of Bootlegger's pretty well-lived there for forty years, in my day it was an after hours club, I think, called R&S Club. The area was a hotbed, in the 70's for biker gangs and there remains a long list of women found murdered, bodies dumped in the nearby Tinicum marshes. Most unexplained, never solved etc. Presently, it is a working class area, some sections better than others. The area near Bootlegger's is less desireable than other areas of Ridley Township. There is a housing project nearby as well as Widener University. Overall, mostly decent, hard working people. It was never an area with a large Hispanic population-they make up less than 1% of the population in Ridley and only 5% in nearby Chester. If there were Hispanic women in the bar, I would find that very suspicious, since that would be very unusual.
 
I know the area of Bootlegger's pretty well-lived there for forty years, in my day it was an after hours club, I think, called R&S Club. The area was a hotbed, in the 70's for biker gangs and there remains a long list of women found murdered, bodies dumped in the nearby Tinicum marshes. Most unexplained, never solved etc. Presently, it is a working class area, some sections better than others. The area near Bootlegger's is less desireable than other areas of Ridley Township. There is a housing project nearby as well as Widener University. Overall, mostly decent, hard working people. It was never an area with a large Hispanic population-they make up less than 1% of the population in Ridley and only 5% in nearby Chester. If there were Hispanic women in the bar, I would find that very suspicious, since that would be very unusual.

Good point, Denise- in the friends descriptions or comments you are aware of, were these women spanish -looking or spanish looking with spanish accents? Had anyone seen them in the bar previously?
 
http://www.bootleggersusa.com/

There are photos posted of the club the night Tommy went missing.
WOW! Excellent!! Let me get this right...Tommy went missing 1/19, correct?!

If so, it looks like there was an Upper Darby Policeman there that night. Where is Upper Darby Township? There is also a photo of him with two other "buddies". Fellow officers?

Interestingly enough...the guy playing guitar seems to have a smiley face on his shirt.

If you want great photos of that night in Bootleggers...my suggestion is to follow the "fans" of Deja Vu (the band) that night on myspace. Here is their page: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=199237354

LE should follow up with the women who posted they were going to the show or went to the show. They probably have tons of photos they didn't post. Anytime you have a band with a following, they normally have a "street team" which are responsible for putting up posters and getting crowds. They are usually females and they take photos constantly at venues.

They also had a "Bachelorette Party" that night. More photos if the family or LE will contact the Bride. :)

This is a good idea for every bar we are talking about that had bands in the bars the night these men went missing.

Thanks so much, Indignator!! My lightbulb finally went on. :)
 
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