Dellen Millard: Innocent Dupe? Alternative Theories

[Variant]

Of course this would be assuming that the Bosma truck had already been fitted with a compartment.

It could have been needed to fit a compartment...or it had a compartment at one time which caused any number of electrical problems with the truck ( hence Lemon)
Or it had a compartment somewhere in the back seat area which had been or was being used for whatever reason.

As with much of this case there are several possibilities even to this potential lead. IMO

So I do not necessarily believe this line of thinking is all about LE finding a trap/compartment. It is a matter of the whole situation revolving around the possibility of drug trafficking and who knows what or who else ! JMO

Yes, I should have started "If LE were to find evidence of a trap here is how it might be possible, even with destruction of the seats" My opinion is that there was no trap.

 

[robynhood]

I am confused on this new part of TB Ram truck being targeted because it had been " modified" to hold a "trap "....?and DM now targeted that particular RAM Tim Bosma 's ....is that what posters are saying?...please CLARIFY?



I do agree with the poster( was it >>> Variant >>>post #477 where this was first mentioned ?) above me...As I know that vehicles have computer generatored dashes and any accident in recent trucks can now be tracked thru motor vehicle authorities or mechanics...

I was just at a truck dealer discussing this as we were looking at them.

*****My confusion is related to why would DM & SM go looking at a different colour RAM the day before sunday may 5 if they wanted TB vechike because it has a secret compartment....?

Please help me understand your reasoning...very curious...thanking you KINDLY... robynhood.

 

[Carli]

That's another piece of information that you can add when you contact LE.....

I expect that LE has disassembled the interior of the TB truck and thoroughly examined it for evidence of the crime; blood splatter, fingerprints, hair, etc., and also to determine whether there was something extra inside the truck that would make it a target. Doesn't matter if the seats were removed, there is still a dashboard, door panels, carpet, headliner, etc.

Traps aren't news to LE especially those that are near to any border or in high crime cities. If the trap was in a seat as described in the article, even with the seats missing LE would still discover and understand the other triggering devices if the vehicle had actually been converted.

Even if all of the triggering mechanisms were in the destroyed seat there is a likely way that LE could detect that the vehicle was altered. The history of the various computer control modules can be read on modern vehicles. I have the equivalent of factory/dealer code reader for my 2002 car, which I bought used. I can read a code and know the mileage that the previous owner had the seat worked on because the airbag control module recorded and reports it. Attempt to wipe this memory destroys the module and used replacements don't work, a new factory registered unit must be obtained.

As I recall LE has cleared the TB family of any criminal activities and there is no reason to postulate that they had knowledge of a trap built into their truck. Since SB has said the truck was a lemon and $ 10,000 worth of work has been done on it over the past couple of years, I expect that modules have been read and maybe interior parts removed and inspected if they were getting warning lights or experiencing climate control or SRS problems. If I were their mechanic I would point out the module messages and the unusual wiring or that stash under the seat that was quite possibly creating some of the problems they were experiencing, if the truck had been modified. (Oh wait, the mechanic was in on it, he was the one filling/emptying the trap!)

Now if the seats and all of the control modules were gone when LE found the truck....

But before all that I don't understand why the proposed framer would need to destroy evidence of a trap if the purpose were to put DM in jail for a long time, how does finding a trap lead LE away from DM's murder charge?

First, welcome to the Forum, if nobody has thought to do so earlier. In particular, your view regarding the possibility of a trap or traps built into the truck most recently owned by TB in the "Alternative Theories" thread is appreciated, even if IMO, it is a somewhat baffling conclusion. The scenario you describe suggests a poorly constructed trap of some kind that involved the physical seats, easily determined by a well-informed LE, so one would have to agree that this "Alternative Theory" scenario is severely compromised. However, of the several viable scenarios, nobody else has suggested this interpretation.

Most importantly, IMO no one has suggested or implied that TB or his family would have been involved in any way with such an issue. Quite the contrary, in fact. Had still operational traps been found by the Black Hats on the test drive and the contraband found to be intact, then there would have been no reason to have murdered TB. They'd have simply secretly removed the booty or arranged to purchase the truck and moved on. The trouble, imo, arose precisely because there was nothing there. TB may have professed complete ignorance about any contraband ever hidden in the truck. In fact, If this contraband had been hidden pursuant to some crime committed years ealier, there is, in fact, every possibility that it was never in the truck during the full period of TB's ownership. On that tragic night, however, his ignorance of the circumstances was not believed. By that time in the heated exchange, he'd also have learned too much and so his fate was sealed.

Your confidence in LE investigator's familiarity with this approach to hiding contraband and their ability to determine the secret codes that reveal them is hopefully well placed. However, the Wired article, dated in March of this year, seems to suggest that quite sophisticated methods may be used to tap into a vehicle's electrical system, primarily to rig a secret code that would provide access to the trap. However, it is essential to note there is nothing illegal about building secret compartments in your vehicle, or your boat, or your garden shed or anything else you own, or having them built either - unless they are later found by LE to contain contraband or possibly evidence of other crimes. In this case, if LE were also to find an empty compartment in the Dodge Ram, there would be nothing whatsoever to incriminate anybody of anything.

With respect to why a murderer or murderers would take measures to try to pin the blame on somebody else, the reasons should be self evident, imo. It seems absurdly doubtful to me that a murderer would confess to a crime and expect lenience arising from his explanation that he figured the victim had stolen his stash or his stolen cash or his weapon used in an earlier crime (for instance) and therefore, in the infamous Texas parlance "He needed killin'."

Early in the investigation, LE appeared to state that TB was not the target of this crime. The target was his truck. An examination of "alternative theories" that could have led to the tragic death of TB is based on the possibility of the accuracy of that comment. It seems to me that are many, if not dozens of possible practical scenarios, centering around that particular Dodge Ram, that might be worthy of consideration. Hopefully it may be possible to entertain some of them here. MOO IMHO.

 

[Variant]

First, welcome to the Forum, if nobody has thought to do so earlier. In particular, your view regarding the possibility of a trap or traps built into the truck most recently owned by TB in the "Alternative Theories" thread is appreciated, even if IMO, it is a somewhat baffling conclusion. The scenario you describe suggests a poorly constructed trap of some kind that involved the physical seats, easily determined by a well-informed LE, so one would have to agree that this "Alternative Theory" scenario is severely compromised. However, of the several viable scenarios, nobody else has suggested this interpretation.

Most importantly, IMO no one has suggested or implied that TB or his family would have been involved in any way with such an issue. Quite the contrary, in fact. Had still operational traps been found by the Black Hats on the test drive and the contraband found to be intact, then there would have been no reason to have murdered TB. They'd have simply secretly removed the booty or arranged to purchase the truck and moved on. The trouble, imo, arose precisely because there was nothing there. TB may have professed complete ignorance about any contraband ever hidden in the truck. In fact, If this contraband had been hidden pursuant to some crime committed years ealier, there is, in fact, every possibility that it was never in the truck during the full period of TB's ownership. On that tragic night, however, his ignorance of the circumstances was not believed. By that time in the heated exchange, he'd also have learned too much and so his fate was sealed.

Your confidence in LE investigator's familiarity with this approach to hiding contraband and their ability to determine the secret codes that reveal them is hopefully well placed. However, the Wired article, dated in March of this year, seems to suggest that quite sophisticated methods may be used to tap into a vehicle's electrical system, primarily to rig a secret code that would provide access to the trap. However, it is essential to note there is nothing illegal about building secret compartments in your vehicle, or your boat, or your garden shed or anything else you own, or having them built either - unless they are later found by LE to contain contraband or possibly evidence of other crimes. In this case, if LE were also to find an empty compartment in the Dodge Ram, there would be nothing whatsoever to incriminate anybody of anything.

With respect to why a murderer or murderers would take measures to try to pin the blame on somebody else, the reasons should be self evident, imo. It seems absurdly doubtful to me that a murderer would confess to a crime and expect lenience arising from his explanation that he figured the victim had stolen his stash or his stolen cash or his weapon used in an earlier crime (for instance) and therefore, in the infamous Texas parlance "He needed killin'."

Early in the investigation, LE appeared to state that TB was not the target of this crime. The target was his truck. An examination of "alternative theories" that could have led to the tragic death of TB is based on the possibility of the accuracy of that comment. It seems to me that are many, if not dozens of possible practical scenarios, centering around that particular Dodge Ram, that might be worthy of consideration. Hopefully it may be possible to entertain some of them here. MOO IMHO.

My original response was to Snoofo's comments about your posting of the link to the Wired article, and about the removal of the seats. He seemed to be going in the direction of the seats being removed to get rid of evidence of use in carrying hidden contraband. If that wasn't what you were implying my apologies for misinterpretation Snoofo.

You said "In this respect I call attention to the March edition of Wired magazine http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/alfred-anaya/which may provide some insight into why a buyer might be interested in only one particular and specific truck if, for instance, it had much earlier (before TB bought it) been stolen, seized or confiscated and since gone missing. It occurs to me that if the vehicle with the correctly installed trap turned up no contraband when found, even when, say, all the seats were hauled out and ripped apart, then the self-styled "rightful" owners of the contraband could be murderously angry. Just a thought."

The rest of my response to Snoofo explains how even the best hidden or removed trap system would be exposed to LE disassembling TB's truck, if one were ever installed.

 

[Carli]

My original response was to Snoofo's comments about your posting of the link to the Wired article, and about the removal of the seats. He seemed to be going in the direction of the seats being removed to get rid of evidence of use in carrying hidden contraband. If that wasn't what you were implying my apologies for misinterpretation Snoofo.

You said "In this respect I call attention to the March edition of Wired magazine http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/alfred-anaya/which may provide some insight into why a buyer might be interested in only one particular and specific truck if, for instance, it had much earlier (before TB bought it) been stolen, seized or confiscated and since gone missing. It occurs to me that if the vehicle with the correctly installed trap turned up no contraband when found, even when, say, all the seats were hauled out and ripped apart, then the self-styled "rightful" owners of the contraband could be murderously angry. Just a thought."

The rest of my response to Snoofo explains how even the best hidden or removed trap system would be exposed to LE disassembling TB's truck, if one were ever installed.

It's hard to say when the seats were removed, of course, but I'd be more inclined to think they may have been removed because they contained the contraband, but because, theoretically, they covered the floor area access to a trap. Where these seats are now remains something of a puzzle (unless LE has them) because these items are practically impossible to completely destroy. Certainly the effects of fire would not disguise them. A crusher of some sort, maybe, of the sort used in auto junk yards. I dunno. But I don't think it matters much either.

Again, it's not the existence of a trap that is in question, but the missing contents of such a trap that, imo, could possibly have led to this tragic murder. If contraband of some kind was placed there up to 6 or 7 years ago and it is now missing, there could no doubt have been numerous opportunities for others to have removed the contents when they realized the owner had no idea about this. Maybe that person was daring enough to pocket cash or contraband. Maybe what has hidden seemed benign so a mechanic or someone just trashed or kept it - a list of telephone numbers, a pretty knife, a map or some other item with enormous significance to the Black Hat who either hid it or had it hidden for him but little or no intrinsic value to anybody else.

Which Hamilton area gangsters were sent to the slammer 5 to 7 years ago and for what crime? Were any such persons recently released? Is there any possible link between the little wannabe MS and associates of such persons? Something to prove? A loan to pay back? Whatever? I dunno. Any possible link between any (sleuthable) MillardAir associates and such trade, although, again, it's not illegal to install traps in vehicles. If LE were to uncover such hiding places, it wouldn't matter a tinker's damn unless illegal contents were still there.

 

[Juballee]

<modsnip>

Trucks can be painted.

 

[Sillybilly]

Trucks can be painted.

But if they didn't know the colour of the Dodge Ram they initially were seeking with the secret compartment ... they would:

A) have to know that the specific truck was going up for sale, which wouldn't make a lot of sense to wait until such time if they knew where the truck was
B) have to check out every Dodge Ram that came up for sale in the province of Ontario since TB acquired his Dodge Ram ... and
C) just happen to be the luckiest criminals in the world in that the one they were seeking just happened to be the second one they test drove

 

[Blomquist]

<modsnip>

I don't think we can rule anything out ... <modsnip>

Maybe the 'looker' did not know the colour or maybe it had been dark.... or maybe as someone already said it had been repainted..... or maybe this first test drive was part of a plan to point to the accused.....

Not everything is as simple as a childrens paperback IMO.... oftentimes the truth is stranger than fiction.... My own life has shown me this many times.....

 

[Blomquist]

But if they didn't know the colour of the Dodge Ram they initially were seeking with the secret compartment ... they would:

A) have to know that the specific truck was going up for sale, which wouldn't make a lot of sense to wait until such time if they knew where the truck was
B) have to check out every Dodge Ram that came up for sale in the province of Ontario since TB acquired his Dodge Ram ... and
C) just happen to be the luckiest criminals in the world in that the one they were seeking just happened to be the second one they test drove

OR it was part of a very strategic plan.....

 

[Carli]

But if they didn't know the colour of the Dodge Ram they initially were seeking with the secret compartment ... they would:

A) have to know that the specific truck was going up for sale, which wouldn't make a lot of sense to wait until such time if they knew where the truck was
B) have to check out every Dodge Ram that came up for sale in the province of Ontario since TB acquired his Dodge Ram ... and
C) just happen to be the luckiest criminals in the world in that the one they were seeking just happened to be the second one they test drove

Great points SB but for the sake of discussion, let's consider..

A) Mr Big had to wait until release from slammer to look for his booty. Let's say around about the time of the burner phone acquisition? When was that again? February? March? I forget.

B) Who's to say Mr Blackhat and his numerous "friends" haven't been checking out Dodge Rams in the area, including any for sale on used car lots or those that came up listed for sale on Kiiji or Auto Trader or newpaper or online ads for at least 2 or 3 months prior to May?

C) I wonder if it has ever been suggested that there was only 1 previous "test drive"? As I recall the reference to the test that took place a day earlier has always had to do with the identifying tattoo and the peculiarity of the test drivers arriving on foot. As mentioned in the previous response, I suppose its possible that a number of people have been on a determined search for several weeks or months to find this vehicle.

It's a possibility, is it not? MOO IMHO

 

[Snoofo]

My original response was to Snoofo's comments about your posting of the link to the Wired article, and about the removal of the seats. He seemed to be going in the direction of the seats being removed to get rid of evidence of use in carrying hidden contraband. If that wasn't what you were implying my apologies for misinterpretation Snoofo.

You said "In this respect I call attention to the March edition of Wired magazine http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/alfred-anaya/which may provide some insight into why a buyer might be interested in only one particular and specific truck if, for instance, it had much earlier (before TB bought it) been stolen, seized or confiscated and since gone missing. It occurs to me that if the vehicle with the correctly installed trap turned up no contraband when found, even when, say, all the seats were hauled out and ripped apart, then the self-styled "rightful" owners of the contraband could be murderously angry. Just a thought."

The rest of my response to Snoofo explains how even the best hidden or removed trap system would be exposed to LE disassembling TB's truck, if one were ever installed.

I am thoroughly confused! My original thoughts upon reading the article in Wired were from the impression the seats were removed by the framers and not by LE. And I was looking for an example of a specific scenario in how this whole thing could have gone down and how involved DM/MS were and when the other crooks took over because I am having difficulty "connecting the dots" myself to create a scenario. I hate to admit it but I still dont understand! I find it easier to believe maybe they wanted the seats to make a compartment within the seats and install them in a similar truck, rather than waiting for the day TB might be selling the Ram. And how do the other test drives fit in?

I wasnt suggesting anything to do with LE.

I like this idea but I dont know anything about traps and I need true handholding with this one, to determine how this all worked using all our players. How much did DM and MS have to do with this? Would they have made the appts for test drives and what were they told? I can't piece it together.

I didnt get the impression anyone was suggesting TB was knowingly selling a car with contraband built in or that TB had a mechanic in on it.

I did learn a lot from many of the responses, including yours, so thanks.

 

[Variant]

I am thoroughly confused! My original thoughts upon reading the article in Wired were from the impression the seats were removed by the framers and not by LE. And I was looking for an example of a specific scenario in how this whole thing could have gone down and how involved DM/MS were and when the other crooks took over because I am having difficulty "connecting the dots" myself to create a scenario. I hate to admit it but I still dont understand! I find it easier to believe maybe they wanted the seats to make a compartment within the seats and install them in a similar truck, rather than waiting for the day TB might be selling the Ram. And how do the other test drives fit in?

I wasnt suggesting anything to do with LE.

I like this idea but I dont know anything about traps and I need true handholding with this one, to determine how this all worked using all our players. How much did DM and MS have to do with this? Would they have made the appts for test drives and what were they told? I can't piece it together.

I didnt get the impression anyone was suggesting TB was knowingly selling a car with contraband built in or that TB had a mechanic in on it.

I did learn a lot from many of the responses, including yours, so thanks.

That's what I thought you meant so obviously I didn't communicate clearly.

My first point was that LE could discover that the truck had been altered by the ways described in the article even if "framers" had removed the seats - so removing them for the purposes of hindering LE investigation could have been useless.

I didn't mean that LE removed the seats, but I do expect that they removed some if not all of the remaining parts of the interior in gathering evidence, which would reveal remaining physical changes if a trap were installed as described in the Wired article.

LE have said the truck was targeted. If one assumes they are not already sure of the reason, they would be looking for other unusual features that would make it a target and would IMO be looking for evidence of conversion for illegal activities as one of those features.

My point about the TB family was to accept that they weren't involved in illegal activities so that if there were a trap they presumably didn't install it and if they were initially unaware of one that was installed, the type described in the Wired article could easily be discovered and reported by mechanics working on the car. Any interference with the airbag/restraint system, such as wiring into the seat sensor, is typically logged as a fault with the SRS system with mileage and location (i.e. "left front seat") information, for reasons of safety, accident investigation, and I suspect, litigation protection by the vehicle manufacturer.

So, if there were a trap there is a strong possibility that it would have been discovered during the apparently extensive repair work that was paid for the owner TB, and TB and SB would be informed that there was some strange, potentially dangerous wiring in their truck and an unusual compartment in or under the seat, which would have been inspected because of the SRS log, IMO.

The parenthetical comment about the mechanic wasn't my opinion, but could be an explanation of how TB could own and operate a truck that is often in the repair shop without knowledge that it was converted and had been or was carrying contraband for others. The mechanic would have to be involved with the others. IMO, involving another party's vehicle seems to me a very insecure and logistically foolish way of doing business by the others and belies their ability to carry a successful frame of DM.

 

[swedie]

Another possible theory. As DP stated, "there is another side to the story". BTW which doesn't necessarily mean diddly squat, just lawyer babble trying to raise reasonable doubt. Say MS and DM owned someone big money for potential drug debt. That someone was also into chopping vehicles. DM and MS see it as a good way of paying off debts. The murder was not intended and because the murder happened, that someone TB's truck was meant to go to for payment, backed out of the deal, not wanted to be tied to a murder. Theft is one thing while murder is a whole different story.

MS and DM are then stuck with TB's truck and deceased body. So in haste they need to do something with them which leads to hiding the truck in DM's trailer at the hangar until they can figure out what to do next. Taking TB's body to the farmland and burning it beyond recognition in the incinerator would obliterate evidence of them being involved. Theoretically speaking, say they left TB' body in the incinerator; out of sight, out of mind, none would be the wiser and they believed they had that part of their trail covered. It's possible they ran out of propane and intended on returning with more somehow once things settled down in the media.

DM and MS had the DM's trailer with Tim's truck inside in the hangar, but once LE released information about the tattoo, DM knew it was only a matter of time before LE showed up at his door or at the hangar to question him. Therefore he had to get the trailer with Tim's truck inside out of the hangar, which prompted him to take it to his mother's home, knowing (I am assuming) she was away, and again until the heat died down. DM figured once LE had been to the hangar and had a lookie see but found no Tim's truck there they could retrieve the trailer and truck and start chopping it. DM figured or hoped it would be as simple as that that LE would just take a look, see no truck and wouldn't question all the vehicles, car parts and such in the hangar, they would just be looking for the obvious...Tim's truck. It didn't play out the way DM and MS were figuring/hoping though as someone known to DM called in a tip regarding his infamous tattoo. With the finding of TB's cell phone and retrieved information leading back to DM, the at least two witnesses, BO and SB IDing DM and MS, video surveillance retrieved, and whatever else they had at that time all lead to the two sitting in jail charged with murder of TB.

With the trailer parked at his mom's, again out of sight, out of mind, they felt they were smart in covering their trail. Maybe when they dropped the trailer off at his mom's place they intentionally tired to draw attention to the fact they were there so neighbours wouldn't become suspicious. Neighbours would just think to themselves, "Oh that's MB's son just dropping off a trailer, nothing to be concerned about". But I'm sure they got talking amongst themselves though wondering what the trailer was for. Did they wonder if MB was moving, was something being delivered by DM while she was not home so he just decided to leave the trailer there until she came back? Once the neighbours heard of DM's arrest, one or more of the neighbours put two and two together leading them to call LE. Take into account LE would have had to get a seizure warrant to get and haul away the trailer. The call to LE from concerned neighbours could have been Saturday or Sunday.

I for one feel certain DM and MS figured they had their butts covered and this is how it played out. They did it in haste and were sloppy. Would also point to the reason for the burner phone. They had gotten themselves into some heap of trouble and needed to find a way out and stealing vehicles seemed a logical pay back to someone who had already was into chop shopping. JMOO.

Maybe that someone has quickly cleaned up shop or has been arrested also in connection to having stolen vehicles. If arrested, we probably won't find out until PB is lifted or when it goes to trial. All just MOO.

 

[Blomquist]

Another possible theory. As DP stated, "there is another side to the story". BTW which doesn't necessarily mean diddly squat, just lawyer babble trying to raise reasonable doubt.

I believe he actually said that 'there is a story here' .... not that there was another side to the story...which suggests another side of the same story as opposed to something that may be able to shed light on the original story...JMO

No matter how many times we repeat our opinions over and over... the true story is out there somewhere...and maybe that's the story that DP's story (via DM) can help with JMO

 

[swedie]

I believe he actually said that 'there is a story here' .... not that there was another side to the story...which suggests another side of the same story as opposed to something that may be able to shed light on the original story...JMO

No matter how many times we repeat our opinions over and over... the true story is out there somewhere...and maybe that's the story that DP's story (via DM) can help with JMO

IMO again, semantics. Thanks for pointing that out. :seeya: Six of one, half dozen of the other IMHO. And of course there is a story, there has to be. The point DP tried to make regardless of his exact words is "we don't know the full story" whether it was said "there is a story here or there's another side to the story", basically, defenses typical lingo; do jump to conclusions until you hear all of the story. IMHO we will never get the truthful story from the horse's mouth. AND he's not obliged to and shouldn't have to; that's why he is paying huge bucks to DP. I highly doubt DP will tell the story as it's not up to him to prove his client's innocence. BUT we will get the facts and evidence in good time from the Crown and that will be the real story, so I am content with not hearing DM's or DP's version. MOO.

It'll all come out in the wash as my mother use to say. :floorlaugh:

 

[Blomquist]

IMO again, semantics. Thanks for pointing that out. :seeya: Six of one, half dozen of the other IMHO. And of course there is a story, there has to be. The point DP tried to make regardless of his exact words is "we don't know the full story" whether it was said "there is a story here or there's another side to the story", basically, defenses typical lingo; do jump to conclusions until you hear all of the story. IMHO we will never get the truthful story from the horse's mouth. AND he's not obliged to and shouldn't have to; that's why he is paying huge bucks to DP. I highly doubt DP will tell the story as it's not up to him to prove his client's innocence. BUT we will get the facts and evidence in good time from the Crown and that will be the real story, so I am content with not hearing DM's or DP's version. MOO.

It'll all come out in the wash as my mother use to say. :floorlaugh:

Hardly semantics when your post stated something totally different to what was actually said !!!!!!! I didnt say there wasn't a story.... it was me who actually stated that DP had said there is a story....... as opposed to another side of same story as your post implied. I choose to use the actual phrase and not substitute my own interpretation. jmo

I choose not to doubt anything...including what DP has to say.... and it is for DP to defend his clients innocence imo.

The crowns 'story' is the story they present to better their case and position. It is no more accurate because its being presented by the 'crown' imo. Many cases have been won on appeal, this suggests the real stories had to wait for Appeal court to get justice....and that the crown had not presented true facts. I personally know of several such cases.

Yes the proverbial wash...... but sometimes when you mix up the wash all the clothes come out pink (or blue or just a total mess) and its a hard job determining the true colours !!! hence not actual true colour beyond a reasonable doubt !!

 

[Snoofo]

Another possible theory. As DP stated, "there is another side to the story". BTW which doesn't necessarily mean diddly squat, just lawyer babble trying to raise reasonable doubt. Say MS and DM owned someone big money for potential drug debt. That someone was also into chopping vehicles. DM and MS see it as a good way of paying off debts. The murder was not intended and because the murder happened, that someone TB's truck was meant to go to for payment, backed out of the deal, not wanted to be tied to a murder. Theft is one thing while murder is a whole different story.

MS and DM are then stuck with TB's truck and deceased body. So in haste they need to do something with them which leads to hiding the truck in DM's trailer at the hangar until they can figure out what to do next. Taking TB's body to the farmland and burning it beyond recognition in the incinerator would obliterate evidence of them being involved. Theoretically speaking, say they left TB' body in the incinerator; out of sight, out of mind, none would be the wiser and they believed they had that part of their trail covered. It's possible they ran out of propane and intended on returning with more somehow once things settled down in the media.

DM and MS had the DM's trailer with Tim's truck inside in the hangar, but once LE released information about the tattoo, DM knew it was only a matter of time before LE showed up at his door or at the hangar to question him. Therefore he had to get the trailer with Tim's truck inside out of the hangar, which prompted him to take it to his mother's home, knowing (I am assuming) she was away, and again until the heat died down. DM figured once LE had been to the hangar and had a lookie see but found no Tim's truck there they could retrieve the trailer and truck and start chopping it. DM figured or hoped it would be as simple as that that LE would just take a look, see no truck and wouldn't question all the vehicles, car parts and such in the hangar, they would just be looking for the obvious...Tim's truck. It didn't play out the way DM and MS were figuring/hoping though as someone known to DM called in a tip regarding his infamous tattoo. With the finding of TB's cell phone and retrieved information leading back to DM, the at least two witnesses, BO and SB IDing DM and MS, video surveillance retrieved, and whatever else they had at that time all lead to the two sitting in jail charged with murder of TB.

With the trailer parked at his mom's, again out of sight, out of mind, they felt they were smart in covering their trail. Maybe when they dropped the trailer off at his mom's place they intentionally tired to draw attention to the fact they were there so neighbours wouldn't become suspicious. Neighbours would just think to themselves, "Oh that's MB's son just dropping off a trailer, nothing to be concerned about". But I'm sure they got talking amongst themselves though wondering what the trailer was for. Did they wonder if MB was moving, was something being delivered by DM while she was not home so he just decided to leave the trailer there until she came back? Once the neighbours heard of DM's arrest, one or more of the neighbours put two and two together leading them to call LE. Take into account LE would have had to get a seizure warrant to get and haul away the trailer. The call to LE from concerned neighbours could have been Saturday or Sunday.

I for one feel certain DM and MS figured they had their butts covered and this is how it played out. They did it in haste and were sloppy. Would also point to the reason for the burner phone. They had gotten themselves into some heap of trouble and needed to find a way out and stealing vehicles seemed a logical pay back to someone who had already was into chop shopping. JMOO.

Maybe that someone has quickly cleaned up shop or has been arrested also in connection to having stolen vehicles. If arrested, we probably won't find out until PB is lifted or when it goes to trial. All just MOO.

Swedie, the only trouble I have with this is that if it were DMs debt, he would not need to steal a car to repay it. As DP indicated from the start in that media scrum in front of the Courthouse, LE have satisfied themselves with the fact that DM had sufficient funds to buy that truck if needed. According to others, he could have simply written a cheque for several of them. He closed the deal on a $700,000 condo, mortgage free, the following day (which fact also begs the question as to why everyone thought he was so poor). If the theory is plausible, I would say it was someone else's debt or chop shop interest and DM was asked to front the test drives because he is the owner of a Dodge Ram and could ask all the right questions (at least that is what they told him, but the real reason is so he is the "face" of the test drive in case things go wrong). That's what put him at TB's house that night, IMO, and whomever put him there knew a crime would be committed (was it just planned theft or murder?) and knew that in the planning the traces should lead to someone else. That person had this planned early on and arranged the test drives with a phone purchased with DMs ID and information.

I strongly believe that while there are bigger gangsters involved in the shadows, someone close to him was involved in placing DM at the forefront and using his property. Again, I will say it is someone mechanically inclined who was going to do whatever was going to be done with the car, someone extremely trusted, someone who had access to LOTS of private information and to locations and someone with some link to the city of Brantford. This person has arranged many legit transactions for DM in the past and decided he can pull off some illegit ones in his own interest too because its just that easy. I wonder if this person is so close he may have imagined himself the next of kin who would oversee DMs property while in jail?

Maybe a couple or a small handful of his buddies are in on it. The one that masterminded had to be the one who covered his tracks the best. That is the opposite of what we are seeing from DM. He didnt disguise himself or cover his tracks at all IMO.

I think if DM thought he was out to steal a car, he would have tried to conceal part of his head, at minimum with a ball cap. We've see the size of TB's house. Why would anyone be so sure a house that large, new and beautiful wouldn't have video surveillance? How could DM be so certain that there would be no surveillance, that he would arrive at the door with not even a cap to hide part of his face and cast a shadow over another part of it? just in case??? Blaming confidence doesn't cut it for me, plus we've seen no evidence that DM was an overly confident person or cocky in any way. JMO.

MS - not 100% sure about his role. Could he have been there knowing a crime was set up and talked into participating in the crime FOR money? Yes, maybe so. Was the escalation from a theft to a murder his decision on the spot? What was he on? Coke? These outrageous and dangerous Bath salts that are in the news of late? All I know is he concealed his identity, on both test drives, which lessens the likelihood that he had no ill-will when he arrived to the test drives. Moo.

:moo:

 

[Blomquist]

Swedie, the only trouble I have with this is that if it were DMs debt, he would not need to steal a car to repay it. As DP indicated from the start in that media scrum in front of the Courthouse, LE have satisfied themselves with the fact that DM had sufficient funds to buy that truck if needed. According to others, he could have simply written a cheque for several of them. He closed the deal on a $700,000 condo, mortgage free, the following day (which fact also begs the question as to why everyone thought he was so poor). If the theory is plausible, I would say it was someone else's debt or chop shop interest and DM was asked to front the test drives because he is the owner of a Dodge Ram and could ask all the right questions (at least that is what they told him, but the real reason is so he is the "face" of the test drive in case things go wrong). That's what put him at TB's house that night, IMO, and whomever put him there knew a crime would be committed (was it just planned theft or murder?) and knew that in the planning the traces should lead to someone else. That person had this planned early on and arranged the test drives with a phone purchased with DMs ID and information.

I strongly believe that while there are bigger gangsters involved in the shadows, someone close to him was involved in placing DM at the forefront and using his property. Again, I will say it is someone mechanically inclined who was going to do whatever was going to be done with the car, someone extremely trusted, someone who had access to LOTS of private information and to locations and someone with some link to the city of Brantford. This person has arranged many legit transactions for DM in the past and decided he can pull off some illegit ones in his own interest too because its just that easy. I wonder if this person is so close he may have imagined himself the next of kin who would oversee DMs property while in jail?

Maybe a couple or a small handful of his buddies are in on it. The one that masterminded had to be the one who covered his tracks the best. That is the opposite of what we are seeing from DM. He didnt disguise himself or cover his tracks at all IMO.

I think if DM thought he was out to steal a car, he would have tried to conceal part of his head, at minimum with a ball cap. We've see the size of TB's house. Why would anyone be so sure a house that large, new and beautiful wouldn't have video surveillance? How could DM be so certain that there would be no surveillance, that he would arrive at the door with not even a cap to hide part of his face and cast a shadow over another part of it? just in case??? Blaming confidence doesn't cut it for me, plus we've seen no evidence that DM was an overly confident person or cocky in any way. JMO.

MS - not 100% sure about his role. Could he have been there knowing a crime was set up and talked into participating in the crime FOR money? Yes, maybe so. Was the escalation from a theft to a murder his decision on the spot? What was he on? Coke? These outrageous and dangerous Bath salts that are in the news of late? All I know is he concealed his identity, on both test drives, which lessens the likelihood that he had no ill-will when he arrived to the test drives. Moo.

:moo:

I agree with pretty much all of your post Snoofo

Also I think if MS knew what was going down...be it theft or murder.... he may have not really wanted part of it. It's hard to tell at this point.... but I agree someone else is behind this... I think, like you a 'trusted' friend is involved and also someone else....someone who has some experience in such things and who had a real dislike for DM.... could be a disgruntled business associate, a person who found they couldn't buy Dellen's friendship, loyalty or even blackmail him without repercussions.
Also a jealous love rival.... maybe a young lady chose DM over another and the 'other' was not happy... It happens ...and in the world where money is plenty it could well be that the 'other' had plenty too and a host of other things that could assist him with such a contrived plan....who knows....

 

[robynhood]

:floorlaugh:

Hardly semantics when your post stated something totally different to what was actually said !!!!!!! I didnt say there wasn't a story.... it was me who actually stated that DP had said there is a story....... as opposed to another side of same story as your post implied. I choose to use the actual phrase and not substitute my own interpretation. jmo

I choose not to doubt anything...including what DP has to say.... and it is for DP to defend his clients innocence imo.

The crowns 'story' is the story they present to better their case and position. It is no more accurate because its being presented by the 'crown' imo. Many cases have been won on appeal, this suggests the real stories had to wait for Appeal court to get justice....and that the crown had not presented true facts. I personally know of several such cases.

Yes the proverbial wash...... but sometimes when you mix up the wash all the clothes come out pink (or blue or just a total mess) and its a hard job determining the true colours !!! hence not actual true colour beyond a reasonable doubt !!

...I am posting my response.IMO ....I feel the CROWN will be producing evidence...forensic PROOF..in court ...IMO this proof will tell the story.BUT we shall all have to WAIT for the forensic evidence...as said earlier in the thread ...'It is hard to DENY DNA and a person's or ppls fingerprints..they are unique to the CRIMINAL!..I think all of that was said in DETAIL ...on the RECENT THREAD...In my strong opinion..i think they have the ppl responsible and they are sitting in JAIL where they BELONG..my strong opinions...You are all welcome to differ...of course...
..
:floorlaugh:...robynhood!

 

[Archangel7]

Won't really matter much about all elaborate schemes.

The bottom line is DM is in jail charged with theft, confinement and murder.
Charged and jailed solely because the murder happened while he(regardless of others)was driving and "in control and or possession of TB's well being and body" that's why he is in a pickle.

The alternative scenarios are only important if the Trial Judge or Trial Jury believes enough of it to reduce his culpability.

People being people, I doubt the judge or jury will likely be able to reconcile, reduce culpability, nor easily forget who had 1st possession of TB and delivered the body of TB to his final fate. Not much fluff after that point in the test drive will matter to a jury and is very likely to be the most important thing in their mind(because they can literally see themselves in TB's situation, and many have been there exactly).

It's likened to loaning a prized possession to person "A" and that prized possession being brought back to you by an uninvolved person "D," completely destroyed. Hard to forget/forgive whom was initially responsible and started this event rolling. Especially with the other evidence found in his possession.

And to that point, eventually, there is a limit at some point to how much "evidence" could be believably planted by unknown, unnamed nefarious folks until someone(in this case the jury)sees enough and throws the BS flag onto the field.

OR

Just to what degree of stupidity and gullibility a judge and jury can accept wrt DM's innocent involvement in the theft, confinement and murder of TB.

I'm guessing very little, seeing how this event affected all of Ontario and much of Canada, but that's why they call it a trial. I'll be surprised if a jury is ever seated.