Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[Leila]

Even so, Chilly, it doesn't mean that grandma didn't say something to Cindy about it that day. It's for sure it was a bone of contention between Rick and Cindy around that time. It is no doubt one of many things that were boiling up with regard to Casey's behavior. I would not be so quick to grab it as the sole reason for a fight, however.

Casey met AL for the first time on May 24th, after back and forth posts on Facebook. AL invited her to a birthday party for a friend of his. They hit it off right away and Casey began spending a lot of time with AL. This too could have been an issue between Cindy and Casey, in addition to the stolen checks from her grandmother.

 

[Jolynna]

Computer Forensics thread (incl. forensics on both G&C computers + cell ping info) provides information that suggests George's account of 6/16 is prolly accurate w.r.t. timing. Casey left, but, didn't leave the area, then returned home.

Account of Cindy's hands on Casey's throat are prolly Casey=>Lee=>Jesse...so exactly how accurate do you think that account is based on the most likely source of that detail? Would Casey bend a story to make it more sympathetic to her cause.....?........naaaaah, surely not.

Exactly. Nobody but Cindy and Casey were there for the fight. George was at work.

The hands on throat is what Casey told Lee.

Casey is not what I would call a reliable source.

 

[jujube]

I have never been one to sit at a computer for any length of time, & yet I am drawn into analyzing those videos & watching her mannerizms, etc., that I come away believing she has to be insane! Florida's Sunshine Laws have really brought this whole case "up close & personal" into the pschye of a true sociopath. It is so scary there are people so manipulative of others & yet, they really only beat themselves in the end.

snipped

She's not insane just evil.



Caylee made have known that CA was upset-it's all about Cindy too. As kids will, she may have piled on with information on her mommy. More fuel for Cindy's fire. They argued, Casey left. As usual, Casey returns home when she thinks no one is home. George is home and sees them. They leave. Caylee may have been crying for Cindy and Casey to shut her up, chloroformed her and stuck her in the trunk. The combination of the heat, chloroform, and exhaust from the car, killed her.

 

[minazoe]

you know, Cindy seems totally normal to me, like a nice irish catholic mom, married to a nice italian catholic guy...maybe they are something else but that's my feeling, nurse and cop.

I don't know, she doesn't seem mean or abusive. I feel like Casey plays victim and loves to play people off eachother. It seems as though Cindy could say or do something completely innocently, like call herself mommy to caylee and it would send casey off on a tangent ...pointing all the ways Cindy screws with her head and tries to hurt her.

I'm sorry but they seem like your typical family, very close very protective and very clannish. I think Cindy was waiting for Casey to return Caylee, to give up and admit she couldn't care for her and to bring her back, maybe finally learning her lesson and making restitution for the money she has stolen.

Between George's gambling addiction and all the money problems she has probably become a little nutty and controlling just trying to cope and remain a loving loyal and strong mother , wife and grandmother.

I don't fault her. I just can't. Sometimes you can's see the forest for the trees.

 

[Black Magic Woman]

you know, Cindy seems totally normal to me, like a nice irish catholic mom, married to a nice italian catholic guy...maybe they are something else but that's my feeling, nurse and cop.

I don't know, she doesn't seem mean or abusive. I feel like Casey plays victim and loves to play people off eachother. It seems as though Cindy could say or do something completely innocently, like call herself mommy to caylee and it would send casey off on a tangent ...pointing all the ways Cindy screws with her head and tries to hurt her.

I'm sorry but they seem like your typical family, very close very protective and very clannish. I think Cindy was waiting for Casey to return Caylee, to give up and admit she couldn't care for her and to bring her back, maybe finally learning her lesson and making restitution for the money she has stolen.

Between George's gambling addiction and all the money problems she has probably become a little nutty and controlling just trying to cope and remain a loving loyal and strong mother , wife and grandmother.

I don't fault her. I just can't. Sometimes you can's see the forest for the trees.

Sorry but your perception of Cindy is really scary to me. glad I don't come from that place!

 

[Black Magic Woman]

you know, Cindy seems totally normal to me, like a nice irish catholic mom, married to a nice italian catholic guy...maybe they are something else but that's my feeling, nurse and cop.

I don't know, she doesn't seem mean or abusive. I feel like Casey plays victim and loves to play people off eachother. It seems as though Cindy could say or do something completely innocently, like call herself mommy to caylee and it would send casey off on a tangent ...pointing all the ways Cindy screws with her head and tries to hurt her.

I'm sorry but they seem like your typical family, very close very protective and very clannish. I think Cindy was waiting for Casey to return Caylee, to give up and admit she couldn't care for her and to bring her back, maybe finally learning her lesson and making restitution for the money she has stolen.

Between George's gambling addiction and all the money problems she has probably become a little nutty and controlling just trying to cope and remain a loving loyal and strong mother , wife and grandmother.

I don't fault her. I just can't. Sometimes you can's see the forest for the trees.

Tell me you're kidding!?

 

[Meagain]

you know, Cindy seems totally normal to me, like a nice irish catholic mom, married to a nice italian catholic guy...maybe they are something else but that's my feeling, nurse and cop.

I don't know, she doesn't seem mean or abusive. I feel like Casey plays victim and loves to play people off eachother. It seems as though Cindy could say or do something completely innocently, like call herself mommy to caylee and it would send casey off on a tangent ...pointing all the ways Cindy screws with her head and tries to hurt her.

I'm sorry but they seem like your typical family, very close very protective and very clannish. I think Cindy was waiting for Casey to return Caylee, to give up and admit she couldn't care for her and to bring her back, maybe finally learning her lesson and making restitution for the money she has stolen.

Between George's gambling addiction and all the money problems she has probably become a little nutty and controlling just trying to cope and remain a loving loyal and strong mother , wife and grandmother.

I don't fault her. I just can't. Sometimes you can's see the forest for the trees.

wowsville!

 

[K9 5er]

I personally know of a case in NC where paternal grandparents who are stable and well off, did everything they could in court to get custody of their grandchild, whose mother was pretty well unfit- she used drugs and wasn't responsible however they were told in the end result that they had no grounds for custody at all.

I don't know how state law varies but I think it takes a really extreme situation and last resort for grandparents to get custody unless both parents sign it over willingly. I think even in the case of drugs or abuse the law kind of favors it takes a lot. Which is not really right but if it wasn't this way, IMO the law would be abused by grandparents who overstep boundaries (and I don' say this because of my own issues, I think it's true- I know of cases where if they could, people would take over their grandkids when there is nothing wrong with the parents, it's just that the grandkids aren't being raised the way THEY think they should...different religion or other such thing.

Back on topic, in this case, I do NOT think CA/GA were best for custody- I believe in my heart Caylee would have had a better life adopted out. JMO. CA exhibits some issues like KC does.

(per Nancy Grace transcripts on 9/8/08) it was reported that CA saw a therapist to cope with KC's stealing; the therapist suggested CA should kick KC out of the house but CA was afraid KC would take Caylee with her. The therapist then told CA she should get custody of Caylee. A grandparent would have to present some pretty solid evidence of KC being unfit to obtain custody since this didn't sound like she expected KC to willingly agree. It makes me wonder what grounds she was considering? Stealing from the Greats nursing home account doesn't seem like it would be enough to trump custody.

 

[minazoe]

not back peddling...but maybe I have missed some of the darker episodes...

Im not talking about all the lying she has done since...I am talking about her relationship with Casey...I think the abuse allegations against Cindy are greatly exxagerated.

Am I the only one who perceives Casey as a master manipulator and her parents as captives?

surely I am not.

 

[PaddieAB]

you know, Cindy seems totally normal to me, like a nice irish catholic mom, married to a nice italian catholic guy...maybe they are something else but that's my feeling, nurse and cop.

I don't know, she doesn't seem mean or abusive. I feel like Casey plays victim and loves to play people off eachother. It seems as though Cindy could say or do something completely innocently, like call herself mommy to caylee and it would send casey off on a tangent ...pointing all the ways Cindy screws with her head and tries to hurt her.

I'm sorry but they seem like your typical family, very close very protective and very clannish. I think Cindy was waiting for Casey to return Caylee, to give up and admit she couldn't care for her and to bring her back, maybe finally learning her lesson and making restitution for the money she has stolen.

Between George's gambling addiction and all the money problems she has probably become a little nutty and controlling just trying to cope and remain a loving loyal and strong mother , wife and grandmother.

I don't fault her. I just can't. Sometimes you can's see the forest for the trees.

I agree with your opinions. I see them as normal also. The part of your post that I've bolded is what I believe the Anthonys intended. Typical of parents to do under the circumstances and why tough love usually works out well.

I have a grandchild almost the same age that Caylee would of been and I'm a Grandma. Although my grandson does not live in my home I see him frequently. Sometimes when he's excited he accidently calls me Mom, other times it's even Grandpa. If KC got bent out of shape because Caylee called CA mom that's so sad, children this age don't understand the significance of titles.

 

[Openmyeyes]

you know, Cindy seems totally normal to me, like a nice irish catholic mom, married to a nice italian catholic guy...maybe they are something else but that's my feeling, nurse and cop.

I don't know, she doesn't seem mean or abusive. I feel like Casey plays victim and loves to play people off eachother. It seems as though Cindy could say or do something completely innocently, like call herself mommy to caylee and it would send casey off on a tangent ...pointing all the ways Cindy screws with her head and tries to hurt her.

I'm sorry but they seem like your typical family, very close very protective and very clannish. I think Cindy was waiting for Casey to return Caylee, to give up and admit she couldn't care for her and to bring her back, maybe finally learning her lesson and making restitution for the money she has stolen.

Between George's gambling addiction and all the money problems she has probably become a little nutty and controlling just trying to cope and remain a loving loyal and strong mother , wife and grandmother.

I don't fault her. I just can't. Sometimes you can's see the forest for the trees.

I beg you to please watch about a weeks worth of Cindys interviews, excluding the last 2 weeks. Watch the ones where she goes after people with a hammer, tells George to turn on the hose at people outside her house,
interupts the judge during a hearing, tells Casey there is no evidence while on the stand at Caseys bond hearing, verbally slams Tim Miller and his intentions and says its okay to lie. I could go on. Watch how she tries to manipulate the police in her interviews. This woman goes beyond being an irish catholic 'typical' mom, as you say. Not telling the truth to law enforcement, purposely giving investigators erroneous evidence, and tampering with evidence is not something a normal mother would do, IMO.
I grew up in a polish catholic household and you can be certain that if I did something wrong my parents would have made me pay the price, whether it be at their hand or with authorities. Wrong was wrong, no matter what. Luckily, I learned respect for authority and other people, something I don't think CA has any clue about, at this point. People who purposely manipulate other people have no respect for others.

As for George, his gambling addiction is a rumor. What George did say in his interviews with police is that he got caught up in one of those money fronting type schemes just like Mary Carr - the woman that murdered her preacher husband in Tennessee.

One note about the fight. We have neighbors saying they heard it. (If you saw how close the A's house is to their neighbors home, you would see how they could hear what went on.) Since I believe that CA had a temper, and I believe that CA felt that Caylee would have been better off with her, than with Casey, I just can't see Cindy letting Casey leave with Caylee. I think this is what the fight was about. It might have started about the money, but I believe it escalated to a fight about who was going to get Caylee.

Both CA and Casey have given too many conflicting stories. I think the truth is somewhere in between.

 

[essies]

not back peddling...but maybe I have missed some of the darker episodes...

Im not talking about all the lying she has done since...I am talking about her relationship with Casey...I think the abuse allegations against Cindy are greatly exxagerated.

Am I the only one who perceives Casey as a master manipulator and her parents as captives?

surely I am not.

I think KC learned to be a "master manipulator" at the feet of a master-her mother!

 

[Boston]

Exactly. Nobody but Cindy and Casey were there for the fight. George was at work.

The hands on throat is what Casey told Lee.

Casey is not what I would call a reliable source.

Do we know for sure that George was working that Sunday? - June 15th

It was fathers day.

 

[norr]

Apparently I am not tuned in to how bad this fight may have been. I think in terms of an argument. This must have been much more than an argument. Some think Caylee died the 16th - so this must have been something I'm not understanding for Casey (or anyone) to be able to kill this child. Does anyone know how bad this was. I know Cindy choked Casey.... but how severe was this.

I just can't imagine a 22 yr old girl killing a little 3 year old. I mean actually taking the child and doing it right on the spot or whatever.

Any insight to what this 'fight' really was like??

Who besides Casey and Cindy would have had access to Caylee during this time frame.

 

[PaddieAB]

I'd like to comment on what I saw when I watched the interviews. I saw a mother who was suffering. That hard edge that might be perceived as a coldness is her shield to protect herself from own personal sorrow.

The thing is, when people are dealing with traumatic circumstances they are rarely rational or consistent At first, denial, anger, blame all go hand in hand. We’ve all known people at times like this. Divorce is trivial compared to murder, missing children or death but a comparison at some level I think is fair. One day the “rejected” spouse says one thing, we think they are coping well, and wham the next day they are right back at the beginning. They are bitter and angry and some of the things they say are downright cruel and mean. But knowing these people, and knowing what they are going through, well we understand. However we don’t know CA. Infact we only know her by her face on our TV screens. We tend to judge her on the basis of what we see, but is that really who she is? Or is she not coping well? In her shoes, I wonder that any of us would be doing any better.

People need time to cope with trauma, to sort things out in their own minds, to accept what they are dealing with, before they can move on. The time may be in terms of years, not months.

This case is also unique because at the onset there was no indication murder was involved, simply a child gone missing. I am sure that’s what CA believed when she called 911, in fact she may have been relieved when KC came up with the nanny story because that’s what she wanted to believe - to protect herself from the sheer horror that her daughter was a monster. The media lapped it up, each and every gruesome detail. Meanwhile the events evolved past a simple case of a missing child, but CA stayed stuck in her denial. Not a pretty place to be in when ones words are broadcast worldwide, regardless of her intentions.

 

[SuziQ]

Do we know for sure that George was working that Sunday? - June 15th

It was fathers day.

GA said in one of his interviews that he was working, he came home (11pm ish?), thinks he saw Casey's car. saw Cindy, then see Casey and Caylee leaving the house the day.

 

[SuziQ]

Wow, I don't know many normal families that throw their family members through a plate glass window. And then don't see that their daughter is obviously 7 months pregnant because said daughter said she was a virgin.

 

[norr]

Wow, I don't know many normal families that throw their family members through a plate glass window. And then don't see that their daughter is obviously 7 months pregnant because said daughter said she was a virgin.

Who did this to who???

 

[Thinaire]

I missed previous posts on this...I had heard about the fight from somewhere, probably NG. I am sorry, but what kind of woman CA's age or any adult for that matter thinks it's ok to start choking someone, no matter what they've stolen? This is just wrong.

I think more and more that CA pushed a lot of buttons and overstepped a lot of boundaries. It doesn't explain or justify why Caylee came to harm and I don't defend KC at all. But what is Cindy in her 50's? Did she often try to get physical as a way to control or express her anger at KC for things? Jeez. I'm not trying to criticize a grieving grandmother but there is a part of me that thinks that CA criticizing KC's mothering was hypocritical as it seems that lady doesn't behave the best herself.

IIRC Cindy turned 50 in June? On one interview I recall (sorry, my 50+ brain won't let me remember where to LINK!) that she stated she might have confused the June 9th and June 16th dates because it was around the milestone in her life...turning 50.

She also has mentioned hot flashes, so going through the change can ramp up a temper!

 

[PaddieAB]

Did KCs story that her mother chocked her come before or after the story that her mother was signing the house over to her?

One lie, another lie, who can keep track.