Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

[NocturnalLady]

Famous quote by CA, "Just because it's said, doesn't mean it means anything."

Don't ya love it?

Well - that's actually true in the Anthony house!

 

[Ripley007]

After two years, CA had a tiny inkling that KC may not be working every Friday and Saturday and Tuesday and Thursday night.
One night CA thought I'll just take a peek here and see what sort of stuff my working girl keeps on the computer.:detective:

You can imagine CA's :shocked2: when she discovered that her little rincess: was not working but was at a party wearing :usa: and :drink: and :genie:.

CA was very . She was :steamed: and vowed she would fix her :bigstick: once and for all. When KC returned home they :argue:, so KC :runaway:.

To be continued . . . .:behindbar

Ahh yes, (thank you for falling into my trap)...So CA DIDN'T trust KC. CA should have placed the life of her Grandaughter above all else and told LE the Truth and nothing but the Truth.

 

[ibyoungr]

June 5th Cindy's birthday...
The night before Casey takes Tony, Clint and Maria to celebrate Troy's birthday with Amy, Ric and Troy. She is back at Tony's by 1:25 AM and leaves his place by 3:42 AM.
@3:58 AM Casey texts Troy Brown Casey is now home
@3:59 AM Casey texts Tony
Casey gets 3 hours of sleep….ZZZZZ
June 5th Casey wakes up at the Anthony home after a long night before.
@7:12 AM Tony texts Casey
@7:22 AM Tony texts Casey 49 minute break.. Is Caylee awake?
@8:11 AM Tony texts Casey. Casey does not respond to his text. 70 minute break (Caylee time and wishes her mom a HBday)
@9:21 AM Rick texts Casey
@9:36 AM Casey texts Tony
@9:36 – 10:40 AM For the next hour, Casey is keeping both Tony and Ric..texting her…
@10:40 AM Casey calls Ric
@10:41 AM Casey texts Tony
@10:42 AM Tony calls Casey and talks for 19 minutes.. 69 minute break..
Casey is probably showering and getting ready for “work” and leaving while Cindy watches Caylee for the day. Cindy watched Caylee this week.
11:44 – 11:50 AM Casey calls Tony while she is near Ricardo’s apt. Casey is also texting Ric which would mean he is at work. He stated in his interview that he works from 11 AM to 8 PM.
58 minutes go by with no phone activity. She is near the Amscot… Tony is not in class this week.

June 5th around noon.. Casey is on her way to Tony’s
12:49 PM Casey gets a VM message while she is pinging at or near Tony’s
1:02 PM Casey gets a Yahoo msg.
1:28 PM Casey calls Casey
1:30 PM Casey calls her mom’s cell phone
1:30 PM Casey calls her mom’s cell again
1:31 PM Casey calls the Anthony Home
1:36 PM Casey calls Casey again and then a VM Message cleared happens
1:43 PM Casey gets a Yahoo msg while at Tony’s
91 minute break.. time for some nooky with Tony???
3:15 PM VM message waiting
3:32 PM Casey calls the Anthony home for 1 minute pings near FUSION
3:51 PM Anthony home is calling Casey
3:52 PM Casey calls Anthony home and talks 4 minute pings near Fusion and Waterford Ale
3:54 PM DRF dealership calls Casey
98 minute break..
5:31 PM Casey checks VM
5:55 PM Casey gets a call from DRF
5:56- 6:02 VM message, Yahoo message
6:18 PM Casey calls VM… Casey is back near Tony’s Apt.
6:55 PM Anthony home calls Casey 2 minute call
6:59 PM Ric calls Casey she lets it go to VM
7:15 PM Ric texts Casey
7:15 PM Casey calls the Anthony home for 5 minutes
7:21 PM Casey calls Ric (she is at Tony’s apt)
7:25 PM Jesse G calls Casey and talks for 13 minutes
7:45 PM Casey texts Ric Casey is pinging at home
Casey may have spent some time with mom but not quality time she was texting hot and heavy.

Another text fest between Casey/Ric and Casey/Tony goes on until 9:33 when she takes a 12 minute break.
Grandma must be taken care of Caylee’s bedtime. Cindy mentioned she likes to rock Caylee to sleep at night in her Aug 1 interveiw.
Texting continues between Ric and Casey very heavily…
10:58 PM Tony calls Casey and they talk for 32 minute
Casey texts with Rick and Tony until 1:32 PM she gets in 1 text with Jesse Grund texting Casey
1:32 AM Casey goes to sleep 5.5 hours at the Anthony home.

June 3rd Casey stayed close to home and texts Amy at one point about taking her mom out to dinner. Pings could possibly support this.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm with you on these thoughts. Would it be possible that KC knew Momma Hen was snooping and thus the creation of fake emails from her fake boss at her fake job? WHy else would she draw up fake emails except for someone else's benefit? Another thought is CA could have found the pics in KC's photobucket vs. on the laptop...or her MySpace or Facebook.

What I found very interesting regarding the above, during CA's interview with Yuri on Aug. 1, Yuri pointed out to CA the memo from KC's work that was found on their computer and Yuri said Lee gave this to me and CA quickly replied I found that and I gave it to Lee to give to you. Then Yuri dropped his bomb and said, It's not real and the boss does not exist. (oops CA)

Everything keeps coming up and can be traced to CA as well as it could go back to KC. CA may have created those e-mails.

 

[Ripley007]

What I found very interesting regarding the above, during CA's interview with Yuri on Aug. 1, Yuri pointed out to CA the memo from KC's work that was found on their computer and Yuri said Lee gave this to me and CA quickly replied I found that and I gave it to Lee to give to you. Then Yuri dropped his bomb and said, It's not real and the boss does not exist. (oops CA)

Everything keeps coming up and can be traced to CA as well as it could go back to KC. CA may have created those e-mails.

If I was a writer, I would write a TV or movie script with the KC character being a sacrificial scapegoat, and her mother being the REAL murderer and KC facing all of this KNOWING she was truely innocent. Thus her smug indifference.
Alas, truth is stranger than fiction...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It was Casey who stated that ZFG kidnapped Caylee and that the last time Casey saw Caylee was when she left her off at ZFG apartment at the Sawgrass Apts. When LE investigated, Sawgrass Apts., they found that the apartment that Casey said was ZFG's apartment, was in fact empty and had been since February.

LE then checked all records to see if a ZFG resided at the Sawgrass Apts. In doing so, they found the guest card of a ZG who had looked at an apartment in the Sawgrass complex. They called that ZG and learned that she did visit Sawgrass Apts. on June 17th. LE sent detectives to interview her.

Cindy was wrong when she stated that the ZG that is the subject of the civil lawsuit SIGNED the guest card and signed it C. Zenaida Gonzalee. The guest card in question was filled out by an employee who has made a statement to LE that it was he that filled out that card. He asked for her name and she said her name. It's easy to see that with an accent, Zenaida with a "Z" can easily be heard as Cenaida, and again with an accent, the last noun, "Z" is silent when pronounced properly.

Cindy was making an issue over a very common mistake we've all made and that's mis-spelling a person's name when it's given to us orally and we then write down as we heard it.

I had not heard any of this prior to CA's deposition. Thank you for updating for me but the whole coinky dinky weakens imo when things get all junked up like this. It seems that whenever a piece of evidence is sorted through that it is tainted in some way. Nothing is totally believable. It's too bad there are so many discrepancies.

P.S. I had not heard there were differences regarding the signature/name. I was aware of a ZG at SG.

 

[BondJamesBond]

That "lower left side of town" statement KC to LA has been driving me really crazy!! Thank goodness someone brought it up. Who was it? Bond?

I don't think it's this, but if you fact the A house, Caylee's remains were on the lower left corner of their block.

Anyway, ideas? IIRC, Lee seemed to know exactly what she meant.

No...actually, that was just a clever pun by Woe....ya' kinda hafta look @ the post she's referring to...

In the meantime...I'd better keep a low profile so I don't get in the way of the real sleuthin'. I see IBY has done us all the favor of detailing 6/5 for measuring up vs. "the fight". Let the games begin!

 

[kew17]

Woe,
Hummmmmmmmmm....never thought about that..... Thanks for bringing that out!

 

[nanny2five]

What neighbor is saying he heard a fight on the 15th? It certainly can't be Brian B because he wasn't even home. He arrived home from vacation on the 16th about 6pm. (docs Pg. 1386) Now maybe he heard the tussle between her and dad over the gas cans. I see no reason to think Cindy was lying saying there was no fight on the 15th.

As for the timing suggested for the alleged fight, the average 2-3 year old sleeps 12 hours a night. My older boys slept up to 15 hours a night and my youngest slept only 9-10 hours at that age. Now, considering Casey was on the phone till 3:30 am and the first check of voice mail was 7:45 I would assume Caylee woke her up after only 4 hours of sleep wanting breakfast. This leads me to believe that she likely was just getting ready and tucked into be about 9:30 pm. That would be 10 hours of sleep. A quick look at her cell usage the days before this looks like Caylee was tucked into bed closer to 9-10pm and woke up about 8-8:30, a reasonable nights sleep. I don't see anything different in the phone usage those previous nights. If she had in fact, had a huge fight at 9:30 and was on the phone right after it isn't very likely she wouldn't have said something to Tony about it and I read nothing in his statement to imply she was upset that night.

bolded by me. I had to think about this. casey isnt normal. i was her age, single mother, living home with my parents. if i had a huge fight with my mother and then talked to my boyfriend for an hour and a half directly afteward, would i tell him about it? sure, i would be upset. imo casey wasnt upset by a fight with cindy. and besides that, her reality with tony had nothing to do with her reality with cindy. she has that weird emotional interupt that liars usually have, at least the good ones that i have known. when she talked to tony or spent time with tony she lived in the imaginary tony world that she'd invented. when she was with amy, same thing. so if there was a fight, which i have no idea, cindy angrily denied it at her depo. but if there was, i doubt casey would have told tony. what would she tell him? i stole from my family, i dont take care of my daughter and my mom is mad at me? then again, lies and lies and more lies with her. she probably made cindy out to be a real witch to her friends, she could have told them anything. even tony, in his secretly taped meeting with lee, said that after he knew how she's lied and even been arrested, she was almost convincing when he talked to her on the phone. so who knows, really. the biggest thing that makes me believe there probably was a fight is the fact that cindy denies it so passionatly.
jmo

 

[Woe.be.gone]

That "lower left side of town" statement KC to LA has been driving me really crazy!! Thank goodness someone brought it up. Who was it? Bond?

I don't think it's this, but if you fact the A house, Caylee's remains were on the lower left corner of their block.

Anyway, ideas? IIRC, Lee seemed to know exactly what she meant.

I was making up a title to put to Bond's story taken from West Side Story so I thought, I know, Lower Left Side of Town Story.

You're right that the comment has not been re-addressed since Caylee's body was found that I know of anyhoo.

 

[Ripley007]

I had not heard any of this prior to CA's deposition. Thank you for updating for me but the whole coinky dinky weakens imo when things get all junked up like this. It seems that whenever a piece of evidence is sorted through that it is tainted in some way. Nothing is totally believable. It's too bad there are so many discrepancies.

I truely believe that the simplest, most easy answer is probably the correct answer.
The letter C and G are very close in simularity. Guessing, (like many peeps before me) that the card (for a second) began to be filled out LAST name FIRST. And, to complicate it more, perhaps it was began to be filled out with a dead ink pen. Thus the G came out closer to a C. After finding a working pen, the card was continued to be filled out. Only, now the filler-outer, re-read and relized it was FIRST name FIRST. A VERY simplistic mistake which should have NEVER been pointed out or noticed except for the BIZZARRE fact that KC killed her daughter and tried (somewhat) to frame an innocent woman. JMHO.

 

[PattyCake]

Bold by me.

That whole interview was amazing. It's fascinating how invested Cindy is in every little teeny tiny detail. She absolutely inhabits that world. And then when Yuri (who had the patience of a Saint!) says, "You know none of this is true right?"

Cindy reacts immediately with "Oh I know" as if it's the most normal thing in the world. I swear I don't think she even really hears what Yuri says. The quick response is actually a deflection not an agreement. Casy does this often too.

Isn't it shocking? "I know that BUT..."

Cindy agrees that the truth ISN'T the truth but has the need to still control the conversation and attempt to steer it towards her 'belief system'. SIGH

If I could find long ago, in Aug 08, when I said I'm afraid when Cindy crashes & falls from this saga, she'll be locked up in the loonie bin. I'm certain more than ever she will never recover from this and lose everything. AND I MEAN everything. Even end up in jail.

All in the name of KC, the queen.

 

[Ripley007]

Isn't it shocking? "I know that BUT..."

Cindy agrees that the truth ISN'T the truth but has the need to still control the conversation and attempt to steer it towards her 'belief system'. SIGH

If I could find long ago, in Aug 08, when I said I'm afraid when Cindy crashes & falls from this saga, she'll be locked up in the loonie bin. I'm certain more than ever she will never recover from this and lose everything. AND I MEAN everything. Even end up in jail.

All in the name of KC, the queen.

***Fingers crossed here...***(bold by me)


GA too, for driving a "death car/crime scene" home rather than notifing LE Immediatly!! Tampering with eviedence? Still waiting for a fellow poster in the LE enforcement field to back me up on this.

(This issue "gets my goat" more than anything else.)

 

[Theonly1]

While re-reading here tonight, I had a thought. About CA finding out Casey had duped her into babysitting the night of the "no clothes party". WHY was CA snooping on her daughter's computer? Would the parent of an adult child snoop without reason? Surely if Casey thought her mother was a snoop just for snoop's sake, she would have hidden her online persona better. ? Wondering aloud...

Clearly, Casey thought she was smarter than her parents.

I think it's obvious Cindy snooped because she did not believe her little "sweetheart". She also called up Ryan P. way before Caylee went missing regarding Casey's employment (Sport's Authority, Universal) to try and figure out the truth. Ryan flat out told her Casey never worked with him at Sport's Authority. Ryan said she told him Casey was a sociopath. Some of the worst statements about Casey have allegedly come from the mouths of Cindy and George.

Now that Casey is facing some consequences for her actions from the State of Florida, all of a sudden she is/was the "Mother of the Year" and someone for whom George would be "proud".

 

[Theonly1]

***Fingers crossed here...***(bold by me)


GA too, for driving a "death car/crime scene" home rather than notifing LE Immediatly!! Tampering with eviedence? Still waiting for a fellow poster in the LE enforcement field to back me up on this.

(This issue "gets my goat" more than anything else.)

Since the car was registered/titled in their names maybe they were C.Y.A.? I keep coming back to how when Cindy called Amy on her cellphone at The Florida Mall Cindy said that if they did not find Casey the police might get involved. Why would the police get involved over a car which only had stinky trash in it?

 

[BeanE]

I still have read nothing coming from a neighbor saying they heard a fight on the 15th or otherwise. There are a lot of rumors and opinions being stated as fact in this thread. So far all we have to support a potential fight is the word of an very questionable x-cop and another x-cop that had to take two polygraphs.

The neighbor is JC, who lives across the street from the As. JC is on the SA's witness list.

A link to JC's statement to LE on Sept 15 is here:

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/24/files_released_in_casey_anthony_case.html

Reported two incidents. Incident one:

The first time was uhm, I was outside washing the car and she, Casey came out of the house, screaming at her mother, and uh, calling her mother names.

Uh, I heard F-you, and, “Just shut up Mom. I don’t want to hear it anymore.” And uh, that was it. She went for a jog. And then the time after that, or I think no, before that, I was outside mowing the grass and I had just finished the grass. And uh, she came out screaming some stuff at her mom and I really didn’t know what she was screaming. But some, some, some stuff and her mom got in her car and drove away. So uhm, but uh, both instances uhm, Cindy had never raised her voice at her. Never, really put her whole head down and not said anything. You know and uh, Casey just acted, acted like a uh, spoiled brat basically.

Weekend. I have no time on a week day.

Caylee was in the house probably I guess. No, I didn’t see Caylee.

It was on her way out for a jog that words were exchanged


Incident two:

it was definitely well voices were raised. And again, it wasn’t, it wasn’t Cindy. It was Ca…Casey that was raising her voice.

And uhm, some things were said. Like I said, I, I had just finished the grass and uh, she just got in her car and drove away and that’s all I remember.

Probably a weekend. Week day I’m really never home.


This is referring to *both* incidents (yup, I really do think there were two fights, June 5 timeframe and June 15. JC says both on weekends, so June 7/8 and June 15 works for me.):

JA: How long before we started coming over there (Beane note: on July 15)did you remember uh, hearing these arguments?
JC: I would say probably a month before that. So…


A month prior to when JA/LE started coming over there was June 15.

Has the JC info been correlated to the arguments, pings, etc? There's good info here about KC leaving the house etc. that maybe could be tied in. Sorry if I'm not keeping up enough on this

 

[TallyHo]

I must say that the Jean C. interviews reveal the KC we have all come to know and love from the jailhouse phone calls and tapes.

 

[RubyB]

***Fingers crossed here...***(bold by me)


GA too, for driving a "death car/crime scene" home rather than notifing LE Immediatly!! Tampering with eviedence? Still waiting for a fellow poster in the LE enforcement field to back me up on this.

(This issue "gets my goat" more than anything else.)

Wait... wait... wait... Hold up a minute here.
Seriously, you've got to ask yourself why the Sam Hill didn't LE hook that car up on the night of the 15th and seize it then? They left it in the A's custody for 24+ hrs? This is what annoys me more so than what GA did/didn't do!!

 

[ibyoungr]

Has the JC info been correlated to the arguments, pings, etc? There's good info here about KC leaving the house etc. that maybe could be tied in. Sorry if I'm not keeping up enough on this

snipped by me....

I am trying to work that out right now.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Has the JC info been correlated to the arguments, pings, etc? There's good info here about KC leaving the house etc. that maybe could be tied in. Sorry if I'm not keeping up enough on this

*snipped*

As always, thanks, BeanE :blowkiss:

Observations...as objective as I can be..in a rambling sorta way :bang:

1) My first thought was...well...these may've just been the average-everyday-Casey & Cindy exchanges...only that they carried on out the door and a neighbor heard them. That ,and, obviously, the timing in relation to Caylee's murder - maybe I'm ascribing too much to them as individual events...perhaps they're just indications of the tension 'tween Casey & Cindy

2) Then, I had to acknowledge that the neighbor doesn't indicate these scenes are 'typical'...so...dunno how long she's lived there, but, there should've been priors if this was status quo. This moves me back to 2 events of more import.

3) The ending of both events still placed Caylee in harms way, IMHO - allowing that Jean could've transposed the two events. (A) Casey goes for a jog, and (B) Cindy or Casey, depending on interpretation of the wording - leaves in a vehicle. My first instinct is to read

"she was screaming. But some, some, some stuff and her mom got in her car and drove away..."

...as...intended to be...

"she was screaming. But some, some, some stuff [pause] - at her mom [pause] -got in her car and drove away..."
​

This interpretation would have Casey as the one getting in her car and driving away. However, I realize I've taken alot of liberty making this example...so...not a solid conclusion by any stretch. Easy for me to alternatively see how this could've been Cindy getting into the 4-Runner to goto Mt. Dora 6/15 @ 9AM w/ Caylee already in the car too.

Also noteworthy, IMHO, that even though Jean indicated she didn't see Caylee...I don't think we can assume that is a guarrantee Caylee wasn't already loaded into the car and waiting...could go either way.

In event 'A' Casey would be returning to the house after a jog...when & where the fight could've resumed and escalated. In event 'B', again depending on the interpretation of the wording it is important to know who drove off in the car.

4) Since Jean has done us a huge favor :thumb: by ruling out weekdays AND indicated what type of activity she was engaged in we can do some more sleuthing. While, both mowing & washing the car could be done in the rain...we can start by looking at the weather on weatherunderground for the weekend dates from late May through June (and even early July to be complete). Further, since both are likely to be done during daylight hours we can check sunrise, twilight & sunset times for the same weekend dates.

5) Combining the above w/ the pings that would appear to put Cindy & Casey both @ home in the times narrowed down by (4) above would give us another filter to use. We should be able to do this...ETA...IBY is already workin' on it.

6) Since one of the events has Casey going for a jog, even though we don't know how far (e.g. long) Casey would be walking/jogging/running...IMHO, we can speculate Casey would've showered afterwards before going anywhere...or...alternatively, it could've been in the evening, which would allow her to shower before going to bed. When we consider the option that Casey was the one that drove away, we can consider some period of cell inactivity prior to her leaving as possibly being explained by time for a jog + time for a shower...FWIW.

Dunno if that helps...or if I'm just eatin' up real-estate on the board here...